Dive is the new Invert?

[SonofBaconator]

In the 90s, Inverts were the craze as nearly 20 were produced from 1992 to 1999. Now we're getting close to the 2020s and newer models have surfaced, one of which being the Dive Machine/Coaster. 

Dive Machines have been popping up around the world and have taken the GP by storm. With their popularity I think its safe to argue that Dive coasters are becoming the new invert.

Sooner or later I think we'll see different variations of the B&M Dive Machine such as 100ft multi-looping models similar to Gerstlauer and possibly even a giga dive, (if a park is willing to shell out the money.)

What are your thoughts? 

[matt112986]

I'd agree, Inverts seem pretty saturated as are floorless/sitting models. I think we aren't going to see a giga dive anytime soon though as that might be too much of an investment for Six Flags and Cedar Point has one. One could possibly come to Carowinds. Would be pretty funny if KI got one though - you wanted a giga coaster? Have all the giga's you can handle!

[Honorarius]

Well, it makes more sense than adding a 2nd invert

[Theoutdoorkid107]

Your onto something. I think we will see Dive Machines in many of Cedar Fair’s parks in the upcoming years. 

[matt112986]

10 hours ago, Honorarius said:

Well, it makes more sense than adding a 2nd invert

Dueling Dragons disagrees. Also KI has two inverts already.

[MDMC01]

1 hour ago, matt112986 said:

Dueling Dragons disagrees. Also KI has two inverts already.

3, if you are including Flying Ace. 

[SonofBaconator]

On 5/15/2019 at 9:25 AM, Theoutdoorkid107 said:

Your onto something. I think we will see Dive Machines in many of Cedar Fair’s parks in the upcoming years. 

I've made it known that Dive Machines are my favorite style of coaster so I wouldn't be upset if more came our way. They're the perfect coaster for parks since they are GP eaters and they can fit in tight spaces.

Its a stretch but World's of Fun deserves something big. I also wouldn't be suprised if Carowinds or Great America received one in the distant future.

The next thing I would want to see them do is closer to 100ft and have it chock full of inversions like a true looping coaster. 

I would love for KI to get one but I don't see that happening anytime in the near or distant future; at least not until the amusement park world has become saturated with them.

[fryoj]

Inverted Dive Coaster.

[lifetimecoaster]

On 5/15/2019 at 8:58 PM, MDMC01 said:

3, if you are including Flying Ace. 

I mean... 4 if you're counting all of our inverted coasters... 

The Bat

Banshee

Invertigo

Flying Ace. 

[silver2005]

I think wing coasters are the new invert.  They have the same visual appeal plus they're popping up more than dive coasters at the moment. 

[purdude86]

Think it's a bit of a tug of war between them for which is the bigger go right now. Think wings can have good visual appeal when done right with the near misses. But could see dives overall becoming a real go to for many for the reasons SonofBaconaor stated. Being a more compact design if needed can make it fit into more places easily and possibly help keep costs down with less land clearing needed

[SonofBaconator]

An argument could also be made for flyers since its rumored one will come to CP

[silver2005]

I think flying coasters are slowly going the way of the stand up coaster at this point.  They're really not that comfortable regardless of who makes them.  Inverted, floorless and wing coasters pull off that sense of flight and unobstructed views and seating better.  

[Rivertown Rider]

I think part of the success recently of dives is that many other coaster types are already spoken for at parks.  While I prefer wings to dives, I think we will continue to see more dives because they are compact and visually appealing and seem to be more cost effective than wings.

[lifetimecoaster]

What would be fun would be working out some hybrid coaster stuff. Winged dive coaster would be cool, and would create a whole new experience. 

[SonofBaconator]

@lifetimecoaster dives are already "kinda" wings as half of the seats are not over track. I'm saying "kinda" loosly. Skyrush at Hershey Park for example is considered a wing.

[lifetimecoaster]

I had some kind of wild grand vision in my head that I should have tried to actually convey, but I can't really. A hybrid wing/ drop where the seats actually pivot as the come over the crest of the drop, so it's more like a drop ride through the dive was more what was in my head. Sounds like I'm in the process of developing a 100 million dollar coaster. 

[matt112986]

1 hour ago, lifetimecoaster said:

I had some kind of wild grand vision in my head that I should have tried to actually convey, but I can't really. A hybrid wing/ drop where the seats actually pivot as the come over the crest of the drop, so it's more like a drop ride through the dive was more what was in my head. Sounds like I'm in the process of developing a 100 million dollar coaster. 

Arrow beat you to it. Bankrupted them too. Google X2.

[lifetimecoaster]

41 minutes ago, matt112986 said:

Arrow beat you to it. Bankrupted them too. Google X2.

 Dang, that was pretty much exactly what was in my head. That looks like a fun ride experience, I'm kind of surprised that it didn't take off. 

[flightoffear1996]

2 minutes ago, lifetimecoaster said:

 Dang, that was pretty much exactly what was in my head. That looks like a fun ride experience, I'm kind of surprised that it didn't take off. 

High maintenance cost. 

[upstop]

I wonder if the next step is a diving invert?

[flightoffear1996]

Speaking of diving inverts what is the degree of Banshees first drop?  

 

[Logan]

23 minutes ago, flightoffear1996 said:

Speaking of diving inverts what is the degree of Banshees first drop?  

 

I don't think they do angle of descent for curved drops.

[upstop]

The curvature would have to be less direct, and I imagine the full train would need to crest completely and hold in the vertical position before the drop, to prevent whiplash.

[SonofBaconator]

On 5/30/2019 at 3:48 PM, flightoffear1996 said:

High maintenance cost. 

That was the early 2000s. Could S&S/ RMC create larger versions of their 4d free spins to mimic X2?

[matt112986]

1 hour ago, SonofBaconator said:

That was the early 2000s. Could S&S/ RMC create larger versions of their 4d free spins to mimic X2?

I hope so, a newer X2, Maverick, and a ground up RMC are what I would want to see at KI.

[SonofBaconator]

After Orion, and if Vortex gets replaced, I want more coasters that are lower to the ground and focus on tighter elements.

We need a looping coaster back in our roster but after that I would like more family oriented rides like a spinner

[IndyGuy4KI]

After being at Knott's are riding their Gerstlauer, Hang Time, I would be fine getting one of those on a grander scale. If they could hit the 200ft mark with 7 inversions that would be a great replacement for Vortex.

Bonus: the light package on this ride is awesome.

 

 

[SonofBaconator]

7 hours ago, IndyGuy4KI said:

After being at Knott's are riding their Gerstlauer, Hang Time, I would be fine getting one of those on a grander scale. If they could hit the 200ft mark with 7 inversions that would be a great replacement for Vortex.

Bonus: the light package on this ride is awesome.

As long as its the same capacity as Vortex I'll be fine with that

[McSalsa]

23 minutes ago, SonofBaconator said:

As long as its the same capacity as Vortex I'll be fine with that

Using the webcams last year, on a day I was bored, I actually was estimating each coaster's capacity I could see. Vortex was pulling around 1000pph which was pretty good capacity.

Here were my results. I watched each coaster run at least 5 cycles, and then used the best 3 cycles as an average (giving mulligans for walks of shame and stuff), and I got these numbers.

Vortex: 1,029pph

Diamondback: 1,314pph

BLSC: 712pph

Mystic Timbers: 949pph

The Racer: 800pph per side (1,600pph both sides)

These were estimated using the Mystic Timbers, Diamondback, and Orion Construction cams. I also looked at some Cedar Point cams to see how they compared:

Valravn: 1,037pph

Millennium Force: 935pph (oof- a bit bad for such a popular ride, Orion will smash this)

Maverick: 858pph

Iron Dragon: 933pph

Steel Vengeance: 642pph (Worse than BLSC- no wonder it always has 2+ hour waits!)

Gemini: 848pph per side (1,696pph if both sides running)

I also could have done Rougarou but I got tired before I got to it and forgot. I no longer have exact numbers but remember doing this once for The Beast too, it got about 900-1000pph and Banshee pulled 1400-1500 (I expect Orion will be about the same as Banshee given the 4-across seating and train sizes are the same).