Coronavirus Impacting Theme Parks

[MoreFogPlease]

4 minutes ago, gforce1994 said:

Do you really think that theme parks are going to be the first things to open? Honestly. Here’s the thing people get within 6 ft to check restraints, give food, long lines, etc.. Theme parks are likely among the last things to open.

I agree. Anything with large crowds will be the last things to open. Which really ruins my planned summer of going to Kings Island, Reds games, and FC Cincinnati games.  

[King Ding Dong]

Other than Iger talking about temperature checks, which won’t stop asymptotic carriers, has anyone heard any concrete, whole picture plans from the industry on how parks can operate safely before herd immunity or a proven treatment?  
 

I sure haven’t. Not even on this thread despite the question being raised nearly every day.  What I do hear is “I think the parks will open by mid-May, Mid-June, July 4th, or August 1st.”  But correct me if I am wrong but I never hear how that is supposed to happen, what specifically the parks will do differently, why large crowds gathering will not cause a 2nd wave.  Where is your science or sources to back up your thinking?

The virus doesn’t really care what you think or hope for.  
 

Maybe what I am missing is some people just don’t care what the consequences are as long as the coasters run.  I sure hope not.  

[King Ding Dong]

57 minutes ago, flightoffear1996 said:

Source?

Why should he provide you a source, when you refuse to provide a source when asked?  Not trying to be mean but......

[MDMC01]

From 1:32 until that disgustingly twisted part (1:54), if taken at proper speeds (like 45-55 mph), that part of the purple "crap coaster" actually has a pretty interesting layout. May want to knock off those last two inversions at the end, though, but to me, it looks solid!

As for the "2020 as a (dumpster fire) coaster" jokes, personally for me 2020 was going fantastic and it's still going pretty well, even though I can't freely go places like I used to (though I do love the option of working from home). But at the same time, I have spent that time that I would have spent going out doing other meaningful things like watching movies with my family and bonding with my Pokemon team in Pokemon White. Not only are three of my teammates some of my faves from the Unova region (and Unova is turning out to be a fantastic region, might I add!), but this game/team is significant as I bought it online during this historic pandemic (that counts for something, right?).

And also, don't forget, 2020 is still a special year because we are 20 years from the year 2000... coronavirus doesn't change that milestone!

-MDMC, trying to stay positive

[Thabto]

I think given the new projections on number of cases with the number being much lower now, I can see the park opening at some point this year. Mid May? Hell no! Mid-June, July or beyond? Possible.  I watch or listen to the DeWine address every day I possibly can. They keep stressing the importance of the measures in place and how we're keeping the number of cases low. They said that it won't go back to normal overnight, but it will be phased restoration. I think restaurants will be one of the first, with likely restrictions such as seating only every other table and no waiting allowed in the waiting area, they'll have to call you while you wait in your car. Then after that will likely be nonessential business reopening and people returning to work. And if all those go well without a spike in cases, then we move onto the bigger things like sports, concerts and parks, likely with restrictions such as attendance cap. I think staff will be wearing PPE such as masks and gloves and there will be an increase of sanitation throughout the park. With the progress being made and the state measures taking place, I just think it's premature to assume that this season won't happen when they were only scheduled to open this weekend. I have no doubts the state leaders will make the right decisions on when to allow things to reopen and will do so when they feel it's safe. I can't see them caving into those people wanting things reopened with how they stress the importance of the measures in place. 

And the source for Universal is on their Facebook page.

[gforce1994]

1 hour ago, King Ding Dong said:

Other than Iger talking about temperature checks, which won’t stop asymptotic carriers, has anyone heard any concrete, whole picture plans from the industry on how parks can operate safely before herd immunity or a proven treatment?  
 

I sure haven’t. Not even on this thread despite the question being raised nearly every day.  What I do hear is “I think the parks will open by mid-May, Mid-June, July 4th, or August 1st.”  But correct me if I am wrong but I never hear how that is supposed to happen, what specifically the parks will do differently, why large crowds gathering will not cause a 2nd wave.  Where is your science or sources to back up your thinking?

The virus doesn’t really care what you think or hope for.  
 

Maybe what I am missing is some people just don’t care what the consequences are as long as the coasters run.  I sure hope not.  

Nagashima Spa Land did. Apparently, it didn’t work because of asymptomatic individuals.

[Joshua]

1 hour ago, King Ding Dong said:

The virus doesn’t really care what you think or hope for.  

This. Aren't the projections based on people who are able to get tested? If so, don't you still have meet that incredibly specific criteria to get tested? Also, did they ever determine if you get it twice? If not, that's a pretty big deal, especially since there isn't a vaccine yet. 

[gforce1994]

29 minutes ago, Joshua said:

This. Aren't the projections based on people who are able to get tested? If so, don't you still have meet that incredibly specific criteria to get tested? Also, did they ever determine if you get it twice? If not, that's a pretty big deal, especially since there isn't a vaccine yet. 

There’s a big question, because apparently people tested negative, then tested positive a few days later. Could be due to bad tests.

[Winterfestguy]

It’s going to be difficult as a chain for Cedar Fair to open any of their parks because each state governor will make their own state laws for opening despite whatever the Federal government may want.  For example, Virginia is under the stay at home until June 10 which means King’s Dominion likely not open until at least July.  So each park in each state will have to abide by the governor’s laws.  Just because the curve may be leveling  off and is on the downward slide doesn’t mean the hidden virus is gone.

[bjcolglazier]

No need to blast me, because I know, I know...the park isn't going to open for a ton of reasons---reasons I understand and whole-heartedly agree with. However, all the data I've seen suggests the park could safely be opened for those under 30 who are healthy, so long as it is also staffed by healthy folks under 30. And so long as the rest of us stay the hell away from them. Folks of this age are more likely to die of something else. 

The casualty rate for those over 50 is so high compared to those under 50. I don't expect KI to set an age limit, but I think the country as a whole is really going to be evaluating who we let go to work, and who we tell to stay home. This lockdown-for-all thing is not going to happen until a vaccine arrives. We are going to see different rules for different people and different things. Because the science dictates it.

[flightoffear1996]

21 minutes ago, bjcolglazier said:

No need to blast me, because I know, I know...the park isn't going to open for a ton of reasons---reasons I understand and whole-heartedly agree with. However, all the data I've seen suggests the park could safely be opened for those under 30 who are healthy, so long as it is also staffed by healthy folks under 30. And so long as the rest of us stay the hell away from them. Folks of this age are more likely to die of something else. 

The casualty rate for those over 50 is so high compared to those under 50. I don't expect KI to set an age limit, but I think the country as a whole is really going to be evaluating who we let go to work, and who we tell to stay home. This lockdown-for-all thing is not going to happen until a vaccine arrives. We are going to see different rules for different people and different things. Because the science dictates it.

COVID19 can and does attack younger people. The can kill them as well. 

[King Ding Dong]

@Thabto  In your arguement I see three actions.  Attendance caps, PPE and more cleaning.   
 

Attendance caps depending on how strict and deep will certainly make social distancing easier. We don’t know if CF IT can hobble together reservation system in time or not but maybe. Certainly we don’t want a first come first serve system as that just creates huge crowds for rope drop.  Caps also prevent the high profit busy days but will not protect against the slow bad weather days.  Revenue will be severely limited due to little to no daily ticket sales.  Half of attendance are Passholders.

PPE: First when will enough be available for non-essential businesses? Parks are kind of at the extreme bottom of non-essential businesses. Even before the shortage the stuff wasn’t cheap.  Staff is going to go through a lot and will be a major unbudgeted expense.  Passholders have already paid, can’t raise prices.

Have you ever worn an N95 mask outside in the summer for any period of time and worked hard doing it?  I have, it wipes you hard and is miserable. Employees are going to need frequent cool down breaks if they are to survive. My guess would be hour on hour off at least for ride ops.  So we just doubled labor and training expense for that segment probably for food and beverage as well. Plus turnover is going to be high because it just plain sucks.  This works in air-conditioned hospitals but ask any HC worker you know what they think about wearing all that outside in July or August.

Cleaning the park:  Just requires more labor and more cleaning supplies 3-4x normal levels sound about right?  Can be done.  Just more expense.

To sum it up we have two solutions that drastically increase expenses and one that drastically reduces revenue. In the best of times parks run on fairly thin margins. 
 

How does the park have any chance of making a profit and not just hemorrhage cash doing this?

 

[King Ding Dong]

1 hour ago, bjcolglazier said:

Barely.

Well it is binary. One is dead or alive there is no in between.   

You are proposing an attendance cap in a sense. Let’s call this the Logan’s Run Solution.  Not so sure how popular the Carrousel will be.   Just teens that can drive themselves, possibly get dropped off or young adults.  Some very young families I suppose.  Some might have an issue with this but I don’t as long as all $1,600 of my passes and ad-ons are refunded or rolled over to 2021 or 2022.  

But let’s not forget that the virus doesn’t care about your age to hitch a ride and pass it on to others.  So Mom and Dad drop you off at the park and you just might bring home a nice prize to share with the rest of your family.  

PPE and cleaning expenses will all still need to exist.  See my analysis of Thabto’s proposal.  
 

KI is in the business of making money.  How exactly are they going to do this?

 

 

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

I'm definitely in favor of rescheduling, but I will need to know the dates of it so I can request those days off of work. 

[bjcolglazier]

14 minutes ago, King Ding Dong said:

Well it is binary. One is dead or alive there is no in between.   

I wasn't proposing anything. And you keep talking like July 9th is going to be just like April 9th, and it won't be---it's going to be a lot different. None of us knows quite how or why, but it will be. I was just pointing out statistics. 37 of New York state's over 7,000 deaths are under 30. So if we put that into perspective what if deaths of age 31-60 was only 37. And 61-90 only 37. Well, that'd only be 111 total, and we'd all be living our lives as usual. My point was simply that those under 30 are considerably safe. It was a hypothetical park-opening thing...I admitted as much in my post.

I still think the park opens in 2020. Because I think positives, deaths, and "what we know" is going to change considerably over the coming months. Our testing capacity and overall knowledge is going to dramatically change between now and July 1. Let alone August 1, Sept 1. Will the park be different this year? Probably. I doubt I take my 70+ parents for bring-a-friend-day anytime soon...lol. But if we're down to a handful or less of daily cases during 90-degree days of summer, and we also know healthy folks under 50 have a good shot of beating it. Meh...fortune favors the bold.  :-)

[disco2000]

1 hour ago, bjcolglazier said:

However, all the data I've seen suggests the park could safely be opened for those under 30 who are healthy, so long as it is also staffed by healthy folks under 30. And so long as the rest of us stay the hell away from them. Folks of this age are more likely to die of something else. 

The casualty rate for those over 50 is so high compared to those under 50. I don't expect KI to set an age limit, but I think the country as a whole is really going to be evaluating who we let go to work, and who we tell to stay home. This lockdown-for-all thing is not going to happen until a vaccine arrives. We are going to see different rules for different people and different things. Because the science dictates it.

 

Regarding staffing be under the age of 30, I guess Don and Chad are gone this year, as is Mike and a host of others...and unless the law is changed, any money the park makes will go to the lawsuits that everyone over age 40 would file for age discrimination.  That is a significant data point that needs to be considered...

 

36 minutes ago, King Ding Dong said:

Attendance caps depending on how strict and deep will certainly make social distancing easier. We don’t know if CF IT can hobble together reservation system in time or not but maybe. Certainly we don’t want a first come first serve system as that just creates huge crowds for rope drop.  Caps also prevent the high profit busy days but will not protect against the slow bad weather days.  Revenue will be severely limited due to little to no daily ticket sales.  Half of attendance are Passholders.

PPE: First when will enough be available for non-essential businesses? Parks are kind of at the extreme bottom of non-essential businesses. Even before the shortage the stuff wasn’t cheap.  Staff is going to go through a lot and will be a major unbudgeted expense.  Passholders have already paid, can’t raise prices.

Have you ever worn an N95 mask outside in the summer for any period of time and worked hard doing it?  I have, it wipes you hard and is miserable. Employees are going to need frequent cool down breaks if they are to survive. My guess would be hour on hour off at least for ride ops.  So we just doubled labor and training expense for that segment probably for food and beverage as well. Plus turnover is going to be high because it just plain sucks.

Cleaning the park:  Just requires more labor and more cleaning supplies 3-4x normal levels sound about right?  Can be done.  Just more expense.

To sum it up we have two solutions that drastically increase expenses and one that drastically reduces revenue. In the best of times parks run on fairly thin margins. 

How does the park have any chance of making a profit and not just hemorrhage cash doing this?

 

 

Remember when utilities charged a temporary fuel surcharge when gasoline prices were approaching/passing $5/gallon?

KI could implement a PPE surcharge. 

In true KI fashion, the price point would be different for pass holders.

Pass holders would pay $15/visit and non pass holders would be $25/visit.  

And of course, all new for 2020, the Season Long PPE plan for $129

[bjcolglazier]

8 minutes ago, disco2000 said:

And of course, all new for 2020, the Season Long PPE plan for $129

Freaking hilarious! LMAO. :-)

[disco2000]

5 hours ago, Joshua said:

My thoughts are currently on those who are considered "essential" workers yet don't earn "essential" wages. If there's anyone here reading this who works in retail, trucking, medical, various public servant fields and other essential positions, you are the lifeblood of this country and you rock! 

So today would have been media day.

Instead of standing in a queue line for Orion, I was in the queue line for the formerly known as Clicklist at Kroger, their online pickup service...and sent out some posts out while in line that I later had to clarify LOL..

Just like a new ride, I was in line for just over 3 hours.

Line cutting with a vehicle is interesting...given I drive an older vehicle, the desperate housewives in their brand new SUV tried and then realized their vehicle would take more damage than mine and waited for someone with a nicer car to cut in front of.

As I got to the spots where they load your car, I recognized that just like sometimes slow dispatches of rides are based on guest error, so are long lines for on-line pickup.  I saw 5 vehicles that were there waiting for their groceries the whole time, even after I got into the parking spot, got mine and moved on.  I overhead them talking that in 30 minutes their designated time would be upon them.  They clogged up the whole works by getting there early..

So I go home and realize that anything cold was not there.  Check the receipt, yep I paid for them.  

I call back and nicely tell them I am missing my refrigerated goods.  She puts me on hold for a moment and comes back and apologized and told me they were there and to just come back, but do not get back in the line, just grab a cart and go to their door and ask for her she would give them to me that way.

I drive back and got to see just how much these workers are hustling...The delays were not their fault.  Same cars I saw waiting were still waiting clogging up the line.

The employee I talked to was as chipper as could be even as people were screaming and yelling at her and her staff.  I am sure she had already put in a long day by that point, yet she still had a smile on her face...well I think because she had a mask on, but the facial expressions and tone of voice indicated a smile.

Was I upset on the long wait and then a mix-up and not getting everything and having to go back..YES...but I also knew that getting mad to the point of berating them wasn't going to do anyone any good.  They were busting their butts.  In a different economy, most would quit and find a better job and they will once this is past us.  

It wasn't warm out today, but with PPE on they were sweating...imagine a KI employee in 90 degree heat with that stuff on...

I am fairly positive these employees are not making "essential" wages.  And they were not allowed tips.  But without any of these workers, or the others Joshua mentions above, our society crumbles..

Maybe this will be the start of the conversation of the pay disparities of these essential workers compared to the sports players making whatever they make and complaining they are living paycheck to paycheck...but probably not...

[flightoffear1996]

I am probably in the minority here bur if we would have let this virus run its course we if would be almost over with now and the economy would still be booming.  We could take precautions but to shut every thing down you are ruining peoples lives.  Think about the small businesses.(the backbone of the economy by the way).  Joe Blow down the street starting out young family just purchased his first home and now sunk $20,000 in starting a new diner along a popular highway (which likely would have been very successful) is now forced to close.  Joe Blow loses his house, savings and is no long spending money elsewhere and his employees are now jobless.  This scenario is playing out all over the country.  The government is trying to help buy giving everyone a stimulus check of $1,200.  That is not enough to make most house payments for a single month.  Its not going to help not to mention what is that going to do with inflation?  I far fear the economic impacts over the health impacts this is has caused.  Cigarettes kill more people in a year and we willingly sell that over the counter the only difference is this effects the rich and famous and we have no way of controlling it.

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

6 minutes ago, flightoffear1996 said:

I am probably in the minority here bur if we would have let this virus run its course we if would be almost over with now and the economy would still be booming.  We could take precautions but to shut every thing down you are ruining peoples lives.  Think about the small businesses.(the backbone of the economy by the way).  Joe Blow down the street starting out young family just purchased his first home and now sunk $20,000 in starting a new diner along a popular highway (which likely would have been very successful) is now forced to close.  Joe Blow loses his house, savings and is no long spending money elsewhere and his employees are now jobless.  This scenario is playing out all over the country.  The government is trying to help buy giving everyone a stimulus check of $1,200.  That is not enough to make most house payments for a single month.  Its not going to help not to mention what is that going to do with inflation?  I far fear the economic impacts over the health impacts this is has caused.  Cigarettes kill more people in a year and we willingly sell that over the counter the only difference is this effects the rich and famous and we have no way of controlling it.

The problem is that if we didn't do anything the infection and death rates would've been much higher. The reason we took these precautions is because COVID-19 is a new virus we don't know much about. We know about the flu which is why we don't shut everything down during flu season (except some schools shut down due to flu concerns this year since we did have a pretty rough flu season.) 

[bjcolglazier]

15 minutes ago, disco2000 said:

I am fairly positive these employees are not making "essential" wages.  And they were not allowed tips.  But without any of these workers, or the others Joshua mentions above, our society crumbles..

Many at the groceries do make a decent wage. It's not white-collar by any means, but it's not bad. Many are also getting hazard-pay right now. But your message is still relevant. 

 

9 minutes ago, flightoffear1996 said:

I am probably in the minority here bur if we would have let this virus run its course we if would be almost over with now and the economy would still be booming.

I think I'm in the middle on this. I think we've been pretty naive the past 70 years, but getting wiser every minute right now. Going forward we've got to figure out how to keep the economy and human beings healthy during a pandemic. 

[RollerNut]

26 minutes ago, flightoffear1996 said:

I am probably in the minority here bur if we would have let this virus run its course we if would be almost over with now and the economy would still be booming.  We could take precautions but to shut every thing down you are ruining peoples lives.  Think about the small businesses.(the backbone of the economy by the way).  Joe Blow down the street starting out young family just purchased his first home and now sunk $20,000 in starting a new diner along a popular highway (which likely would have been very successful) is now forced to close.  Joe Blow loses his house, savings and is no long spending money elsewhere and his employees are now jobless.  This scenario is playing out all over the country.  The government is trying to help buy giving everyone a stimulus check of $1,200.  That is not enough to make most house payments for a single month.  Its not going to help not to mention what is that going to do with inflation?  I far fear the economic impacts over the health impacts this is has caused.  Cigarettes kill more people in a year and we willingly sell that over the counter the only difference is this effects the rich and famous and we have no way of controlling it.

You aren’t in the minority alone, I say let’s spike the ball and go back to work. This virus is an act of god, if god wants to call me to Heaven, Hell or where he feels I should go then he is going to do it whether the government or I want it or not. 

[bjcolglazier]

14 minutes ago, RollerNut said:

This virus is an act of god, if god wants to call me to Heaven, Hell or where he feels I should go then he is going to do it whether the government or I want it or not. 

I guess one could apply this logic to all kinds of things. The government may or may not protect you, but hopefully some God-given common-sense will. 

[King Ding Dong]

Brad said it is OK to quote politicians if the statements are related to the topic at hand.  This is.

 

[King Ding Dong]

51 minutes ago, bjcolglazier said:

Going forward we've got to figure out how to keep the economy and human beings healthy during a pandemic. 

Step 1: RTFM

[bjcolglazier]

1 minute ago, King Ding Dong said:

Step 1: RTFM

Awe, c'mon. @King Ding Dong I don't know if you work in IT, but sometimes you sound like you do. NOBODY Reads TFM. Basically nobody. Certainly nobody in charge. This being a 100-year-event upon us, the new manual is being written. But the next pandemic could be different. Wars will break out. Impossible to prepare for every "if" all the time. Life as it were...happens. 

[bjcolglazier]

137 views, but only 27 votes.

[King Ding Dong]

Fail to plan, plan to fail.

This isn’t IT, this is public health policy.  We spend a ton of money gaming these things out and preparing contingencies.  Fly by the seat of your pants if you want to.  That is not what a pilot does when all the alarms and lights start firing off.  There are specific procedures to follow that have been studied extensively. 
 

The experts prepared procedures to follow in these circumstances.  They were fired in 2018 and the procedures were not followed when it counted.  
 

The US has had the worst response to this among the developed world.  That should be plainly obvious to everyone.  

22 minutes ago, bjcolglazier said:

137 views, but only 27 votes.

Well 2022 wasn’t an option 

The Maths:
Fauci and many other scientists say it may be 18 months for a vaccine to be ready for public distribution. That takes us to September 2021.  Now we have to give 330 million shots and it takes a few weeks for a vaccine to become effective.  The hard truth is it is very possible parks may not open until 2022.  

[bjcolglazier]

4 minutes ago, King Ding Dong said:

The US has had the worst response to this among the developed world.  That should be plainly obvious to everyone.  

 Well I guess we should have killed or censured or locked our doctors up who were ringing the alarm-bells then! Britain has done well...NOT.

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

23 minutes ago, King Ding Dong said:

Well 2022 wasn’t an option 

The Maths:
Fauci and many other scientists say it may be 18 months for a vaccine to be ready for public distribution. That takes us to September 2021.  Now we have to give 330 million shots and it takes a few weeks for a vaccine to become effective.  The hard truth is it is very possible parks may not open until 2022.  

We aren't going to stay locked down until a vaccine is destributed. I can guarantee you on that.