Benjamin22 Posted April 14, 2020 Share Posted April 14, 2020 Glad KI & Cedar Fair have come to this decision. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiddle Posted April 14, 2020 Share Posted April 14, 2020 Will this apply to someone who buys their season pass after the announcement? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco2000 Posted April 14, 2020 Share Posted April 14, 2020 Just now, Jiddle said: Will this apply to someone who buys their season pass after the announcement? Read the FAQ....yes... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin22 Posted April 14, 2020 Share Posted April 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Pagoda Gift Shop said: Whether the park opens this year or not, they just lost a full year's worth of season pass sales. That is a pretty severe financial impact for a park like Kings Island. Their season pass base is among the best in the Cedar Fair chain. Yes it’s true that they lost out on a year of revenue however Cedar Stated most of their parks had 10% season pass growth this year, that’s huge. In the long term is probably much better to make sure all those new people are satisfied with their purchase then make them upset. If someone spent $500+ on passes for their family and feels like they go little to no value out of it then they likely would not renew their passes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medford Posted April 14, 2020 Share Posted April 14, 2020 The key is to get them back thru the doors, when this does happen, make them feel like that season pass was money well spent. If the park does open, and the general public feels like its safe, there may be significant uptick in people because they see the option of getting 1.5 seasons for one as good value. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klabergian Empire Posted April 14, 2020 Share Posted April 14, 2020 Kinda regretting not buying a pass sooner.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco2000 Posted April 14, 2020 Share Posted April 14, 2020 6 minutes ago, Klabergian Empire said: Kinda regretting not buying a pass sooner.... If you buy a pass now you still get the benefits through 2021 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klabergian Empire Posted April 14, 2020 Share Posted April 14, 2020 1 minute ago, disco2000 said: If you buy a pass now you still get the benefits through 2021 I now know what I must do... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super7 Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 7 hours ago, brenthodge said: “Exactly....so does a passholder feel so entitled they would rather have an experience that they "didn't agree to when they purchased a pass" just to get into KI this season, all at the expense of a greatly devalued experience in the upcoming years? “ Yes, based on a lot of the complaining I see, yes. Many pass holders do feel that entitled. My God, the complaints when they first pushed back into May opening was astounding. The amount of people complaining about “all of those days” they were loosing -many of them buyouts that they couldn’t have gone anyway- was amazingly arrogant and selfish. I think the ONLY reason they are getting glowing reviews on FaceBook right now from all of them is because they are getting something free and they are still planning on being there “mid may” You nailed it. The sense of entitlement that now comes with a low price season pass is stunning. I don’t think there will be much of a 2020 season. Why else would they be giving away a season of revenue when most parks have just lost a few operating days so far? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foze.bear Posted April 15, 2020 Author Share Posted April 15, 2020 16 hours ago, foze.bear said: Indyguy added the pic to have it show up on the front page. Thanks Indyguy! You made this look like a real post!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivertown Rider Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 I'm glad that Cedar Fair and Kings Island are doing this for passholders. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco2000 Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 13 minutes ago, Rivertown Rider said: I'm glad that Cedar Fair and Kings Island are doing this for passholders. Hopefully one of these days Cedar Fair makes all platinum passes created equal... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rifleman Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 This is a great move for Cedar Fair. It will keep their pass holder base happy, and will also generate a bit of revenue in the short term, as some people who have not bought 2020 passes yet will go ahead and purchase them, knowing that they will get 2021 as well. My sister was not going to buy 2020 passes, but just texted me saying she is now going to buy passes because they will be good for next year as well. Obviously this is going to hurt the revenue for next year, but it is not as catastrophic as needing to refund 2020 passes would be, and will spread the financial hit out across 2 years, and increase the park's chance of surviving this mess. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco2000 Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 2 hours ago, disco2000 said: Hopefully one of these days Cedar Fair makes all platinum passes created equal... And Cedar Fair just finally made all platinum passes equal... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Meyer Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 So with everyone assuming the park won't open this year, does that mean my opinion doesn't matter? I don't want to sound like an idiot for thinking the park will open sometime this year, but everyone on here says it won't open. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thabto Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 Everyone saying the park will or will not open are just GUESSING. Nobody knows for sure one way or the other. News and developments are changing fast. Even the parks don't know yet. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Ding Dong Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 Everything that one believes will happen in the future is a guess. The difference is what information and evidence those guesses are based on. There is no law against basing your guess off a hunch or your gut feeling, but others generally don’t take that very seriously without some sort of logical case being built on how one came to such a conclusion. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco2000 Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 57 minutes ago, Shawn Meyer said: So with everyone assuming the park won't open this year, does that mean my opinion doesn't matter? I don't want to sound like an idiot for thinking the park will open sometime this year, but everyone on here says it won't open. Sure, we all are entitled to our opinion...what makes you feel like they will open....what indicators are you seeing? Can you substantiate your opinion, unlike many of the one line posts that is more gut feel with nothing to validate their opinion...now whether someone agrees or disagrees is an individual choice, but at least one can understand how you formulated your opinion... 36 minutes ago, Thabto said: Everyone saying the park will or will not open are just GUESSING. Nobody knows for sure one way or the other. Even the parks don't know yet. True...but there are lots of indicators pointing towards not opening (see the other thread for posts with reasons on why they may not open (science, other business sectors, their competition, financials) and documentaries someone wrote pointing out the these indicators and analysis of CF Financials and interpretation of the SIX Q1 statement LOL)...in the opening argument the best we have seen is "they can sell merch"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thabto Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 Since news and developments are changing on a daily basis, sometimes even more frequent than that I'm not really set on one way or the other. Projections have been lowered by a huge margin. We're just now reaching the peak. We'll be eating at our favorite restaurants again before we go to the park. In the end, it ultimately boils down to whether the state will allow the park to open or not. If they do open, I expect there will be some modifications and restrictions. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coaster sally Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 Jersey Devil will open before Orion, IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outdoor Man Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 Hershey Park (PA) planning to open early June. 2020 Season Passes good through June 29, 2021 (I thought KI would do that). https://www.pennlive.com/entertainment/2020/04/hersheypark-announces-when-they-hope-to-open-for-2020-summer-season-and-news-for-season-pass-holders.html 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outdoor Man Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHappy_13 Posted April 15, 2020 Share Posted April 15, 2020 1) An indicator that KI prob will not open this year is that Mr. DeWine was asked about sporting events for this year. Mr. DeWine said that he did not see any large gathering being allowed till next year maybe late next year.. I think he said that yesterday or Friday. When he made this comment he said sports, concerts and large gatherings. I think an amusement park falls under large gatherings. 2) I live in Ky. I know someone on the NKY Board of Health. The people making decisions on this pandemic right now at every level are very much worried that this bug is gonna come back in the fall. Then we will have to go right back where we are now. 3) i would not expect anything big or at all at any park no matter who owns the park for a few years. The Vortex area might stay empty for a while if KT has not paid for whatever is going there. Cedar Fair and Six Flags are taking a big hit by not being open. I am fine with no season at all. Come back in 21 with a full season and now worries about the COVID 19. https://www.cleveland.com/open/2020/03/gov-mike-dewine-recommends-canceling-college-classes-banning-fans-from-sports-games-to-stop-coronavirus.html 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Meyer Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 5 hours ago, TheHappy_13 said: 1) An indicator that KI prob will not open this year is that Mr. DeWine was asked about sporting events for this year. Mr. DeWine said that he did not see any large gathering being allowed till next year maybe late next year.. I think he said that yesterday or Friday. When he made this comment he said sports, concerts and large gatherings. I think an amusement park falls under large gatherings. https://www.cleveland.com/open/2020/03/gov-mike-dewine-recommends-canceling-college-classes-banning-fans-from-sports-games-to-stop-coronavirus.html Great! No fun for us this year. Thanks a lot Mike Dewine!(Sarcasm) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyluvsKI Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 Large sporting events you’re on top of each other same as concerts. You don’t have to be on top of each other at an amusement park. Especially if they limit numbers. The technology already exists for virtual queues for dinning and rides and can be implemented at other parks. You can stay away from others easier at a theme park actually than in a crowded stadium. So actually i could see a park opening before football or baseball etc. you can’t get herd immunity either without exposure so you need controlled openings. Way more lives depends on it that don’t have the privilege to wait it out for a vaccine etc. especially in a place where their govt bails our corporations not the people. it’ll be what it’ll be it’s still only April. Even a July opening would be ok because there are people who have the privilege to wait out their fear and will stay home. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco2000 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 6 hours ago, LuckyluvsKI said: Large sporting events you’re on top of each other same as concerts. You don’t have to be on top of each other at an amusement park. Especially if they limit numbers. The technology already exists for virtual queues for dinning and rides and can be implemented at other parks. You can stay away from others easier at a theme park actually than in a crowded stadium. So actually i could see a park opening before football or baseball etc. you can’t get herd immunity either without exposure so you need controlled openings. Way more lives depends on it that don’t have the privilege to wait it out for a vaccine etc. especially in a place where their govt bails our corporations not the people. it’ll be what it’ll be it’s still only April. Even a July opening would be ok because there are people who have the privilege to wait out their fear and will stay home. Yes, you probably can social distance at an amusement park easier than a crowded stadium by creating virtual queues and strict enforcement of the social distancing requirements. However, sporting events have TV rights/revenues that the teams will make money from so they can afford to play a sport to an empty stadium; whereas, an amusement park cannot open up to no guests, or limiting the number of guests so dramatically that they cannot make money. Bengals have proven for years they can make money with an empty stadium..an amusement park not so much... A concert or sporting event could also be pay per view (PPV).... I guess a park could try to sell the rights to their POV's, but I doubt a TV station would feel that would be a money maker for them... There is a cost associated to a park to comply with these efforts - limiting the number of guests allowed into the park, PPE for employees, more security to enforce social distancing, probably longer dispatch times and trains with every other seat and row empty, probably not every ride open, no shows inside, list goes on and on. Do they charge a daily surcharge fee to address these additional costs not anticipated? Rumpke added a fuel surcharge several years ago when gas prices were approaching $5/gallon.... How does the park determine who gets in operating at a reduced capacity - pass holders first, daily admission, or private events? They couldn't do it first come, first serve as no way social distancing would be followed. Think line jumping is an issue now, wait until there is six feet between people...Do they kick people out and revoke their pass for violating social distancing? Do they divide the alphabet into the days and those with a last name A through C are allowed on Mondays, D through F on Tuesday, etc.? What about based on number of miles away from the park - anyone greater than 35 miles will not be admitted? Or only those living in Ohio? However they decide to cap the capacity people will be ticked... Do they make money if all they let in are pass holders with meal and drink plans and no daily admissions? The product provided will be a different experience. They will have to monitor and enforce this much greater than any smoking policy they have...Nosy Nancy will certainly be looking for violations to report and shut the place down... A lot of questions Kings Island needs to answer... In addition to those answers, the park needs to be able to assure that they keep their employees and guests safe and make money operating at a reduced capacity. If they feel they cannot address both, they don't open...they do not have TV rights to fall back on for revenue like a sports league does... (PS...a lot of what is being posted here has already been discussed in the thread about Coronavirus impacting amusement parks...) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyluvsKI Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 (edited) Do you actually even like amusement parks disco? I mean you seem happy to argue as much against any pleasure or chance of opening seesh!? :p if it’s how you cope then i feel for ya. (Really i mean no ill towards ya you just seem to focus on the not rather than the possible- if they open cool if they don’t cool) i guess i focus on hope and reality versus what the super ideal in a perfect world scenario. Everybody’s going to lose money no matter who they are, i don’t watch sports so they wouldn’t get my ppv $$. But I’ll gladly sit on a spaced out bench waiting my turn to hop on mystic lol most of these business money coming in is better than nothing. But again it’ll be whatever it’ll be. Reality there aren’t enough replacement jobs or lasting support to all stay home for 18+ months till a good properly tested working vaccine. Unless the numbers of the poor who die they’ll outnumber that of the virus doesn’t matter? We can sacrifice within reason to protect the weaker members of society but not at the cost of the working class base. let’s hope rolling restarts within our own state shows promise keeping travelers from coming in from hot spots is the key. The latest from china the second wave has 90% been people returning from outside not new infections. (Supposedly i should add because we don’t have good relations to get factual info from them all the time) Edited April 16, 2020 by LuckyluvsKI China not cons 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 51 minutes ago, LuckyluvsKI said: Unless the numbers of the poor who die they’ll outnumber that of the virus doesn’t matter? We can sacrifice within reason to protect the weaker members of society but not at the cost of the working class base. There seems to be a lot of disdain towards the lower class in this wording. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco2000 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 3 hours ago, LuckyluvsKI said: Do you actually even like amusement parks disco? I mean you seem happy to argue as much against any pleasure or chance of opening seesh!? :p if it’s how you cope then i feel for ya. (Really i mean no ill towards ya you just seem to focus on the not rather than the possible- if they open cool if they don’t cool) i guess i focus on hope and reality versus what the super ideal in a perfect world scenario. But I’ll gladly sit on a spaced out bench waiting my turn to hop on mystic lol most of these business money coming in is better than nothing. But again it’ll be whatever it’ll be. Actually I love amusement parks and had over 80 visits to parks last year and attend enthusiast events...Passes are one of the best values around...I would love to get two years out of my pass and meal plans, but that isn't likely... However, I also understand the dynamics of a business and how a business makes money... I am simply trying to manage expectations of people that think the parks will open simply because "they can make money selling merch"...enough merch cannot be bought to pay for operating an entire park...it can cover the costs of the shops selling it, but not an entire park... KI has fixed costs that basically cannot change. Their operating costs are how much it costs to open and run the park. Your statement money coming in is better than nothing isn't totally accurate for a business model reliant on season passes as it relates to this current situation. It costs way more to operate KI on a per employee basis than say a local lazer tag. Let's assume that the utilities and rent are the fixed costs for the lazer tag. They have 4 employees each making $10/hour, so their labor costs are $40/hour total. They charge $10/hour for guests to play. As long as they have more than 4 people per hour in their establishment, then yes money coming in is better than nothing because they are making money on every guest after number 4. To the consumer, the cost/hour for entertainment value is $10/hour for lazer tag. For KI the cost/hour for entertainment is $3.5/hour, based on a daily admission that is $42 dollars for 12 hours of entertainment (say a 10am to 10pm open to close), and the cost/hour of entertainment value is even less for a passholder. What does this mean, an amusement park needs to make it up on volume of the number of guests in the park, much more so than a lot of other businesses... What number of guests does KI need to have in the park to be making money? If the number they are going to be capped at plus the costs to ensure compliance to comply with social distancing requirements is less than the number of guests they need to make money, why would they open? If the only people coming in are season pass holders with meal and drink plans, KI is then spending money of ours they already have and no new revenue is coming in. They have to take the money they already have from us and instead of paying for 2020, they also have to pay for 2021 from it based on their recent announcement....two years for the price of one is good for the consumer, bad for the company... If the income from opening the park is less than what it costs to open the park, then they are spending money to lose even more money. If for every 10 dollars it costs to operate the park, they only bring in $1 in new revenue, then it costs them more to open than the new revenue brought in. It would be like walking into KI and passing over a dollar to pick up a dime... Money IN has to be greater than Money OUT... When they don't open this year, there will be a lot of disappointed people on this forum. It all comes down to managing expectations... Personally I am assuming they will not be opening based on everything people, including me LOL, have posted why they won't be (look at that other thread for a lot more detail), and then if they do, I can be pleasantly surprised... It's all about perspective...believe they will open and when they don't be disappointed, or believe they won't be open and be excited if they do... Personally I think the parks opening this year is a super ideal in a perfect world scenario and not reality; whereas you think not opening is the super ideal in a perfect world scenario and think reality is they will open... One of the things that makes our country great is that we are each entitled to our own opinion. Some opinions are based on information and indicators and the direction things are going, and others are opinions simply based on hope and gut feels...to each their own... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brenthodge Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 1 hour ago, disco2000 said: Actually I love amusement parks and had over 80 visits to parks last year...Passes are one of the best values around...I would love to get two years out of my pass and meal plans, but that isn't likely... However, I also understand the dynamics of a business and how a business makes money... I am simply trying to manage expectations of people that think the parks will open simply because "they can make money selling merch"...enough merch cannot be bought to pay for operating an entire park...it can cover the costs of the shops selling it, but not an entire park... KI has fixed costs that basically cannot change. Their operating costs are how much it costs to open and run the park. Your statement money coming in is better than nothing isn't totally accurate for a business model reliant on season passes as it relates to this current situation. It costs way more to operate KI on a per employee basis than say a local lazer tag. Let's assume that the utilities and rent are the fixed costs for the lazer tag. They have 4 employees each making $10/hour, so their labor costs are $40/hour total. They charge $10/hour for guests to play. As long as they have more than 4 people per hour in their establishment, then yes money coming in is better than nothing because they are making money on every guest after number 4. To the consumer, the cost/hour for entertainment value is $10/hour for lazer tag. For KI the cost/hour for entertainment is $3.5/hour, based on a daily admission that is $42 dollars for 12 hours of entertainment (say a 10am to 10pm open to close), and the cost/hour of entertainment value is even less for a passholder. What does this mean, an amusement park needs to make it up on volume of the number of guests in the park... What number of guests does KI need to have in the park to be making money? If the number they are going to be capped at plus the costs to ensure compliance to comply with social distancing requirements is less than the number of guests they need to make money, why would they open? If the only people coming in are season pass holders with meal and drink plans, KI is then spending money of ours they already have and no new revenue is coming in. They have to take the money they already have from us and instead of paying for 2020, they also have to pay for 2021 from it based on their recent announcement....two years for the price of one is good for the consumer, bad for the company... If the income from opening the park is less than what it costs to open the park, then they are spending money to lose even more money. If for every 10 dollars it costs to operate the park, they only bring in $1 in new revenue, then it costs them more to open than the new revenue brought in. It would be like walking into KI and passing over a dollar to pick up a dime... Money IN has to be greater than Money OUT... When they don't open this year, there will be a lot of disappointed people on this forum. It all comes down to managing expectations... Personally I am assuming they will not be opening based on everything people have posted why they won't be (look at that other thread for a lot more detail), and then if they do, I can be pleasantly surprised... It's all about perspective...believe they will open and when they don't be disappointed, or believe they won't be open and be excited if they do... Personally I think the parks opening this year is a super ideal in a perfect world scenario and not reality; whereas you think not opening is the super ideal in a perfect world scenario and think reality is they will open... One of the things that makes our country great is that we are each entitled to our own opinion. Some opinions are based on information and indicators and the direction things are going, and others are opinions simply based on hope and gut feels...to each their own... Thanks for keeping it real. I’ve often gotten the “do you even like this place” criticism for providing constructive, critical feedback and well informed observations. Some people thing you cant be an enthusiast unless you are falling over yourself to thank the park for everything the do. There can be realistic, tough love lol! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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