Viscious Rumor

[WeloveKI1234]

Hi, I'm a long time lurker who has always enjoyed this site and forums for several years. I haven't had much of a reason to make a comment or posting until now. Take this rumor for what it is (a "rumor") but my wife works for a local medical office and a patient identified himself as an employee of the roller coaster fabrication plant in Batavia. Being a fellow rollercoaster enthusiast ,albeit somewhat naive, she asked if they had built anything for KI. Well, he said no that they had a 300 mile non compete clause with Cedar Point and that they could not build anything for KI until of course Cedar Fair purchased KI. He told my wife that there is now a "contract" there to build a B&M coasterfor KI. He did not say when it would be built or what type of coaster. Take this for what it is but I think it may be true or he could be a big talker and have no clue what is going on at the plant.

I do think this is a more fun topic than what soda pop might they serve this year which is why I'm posting. I do swear though that the conversation did take place between my wife and the dude that works at the local roller coaster track fabrication plant. If anyone would like to see where the plant is located it is behind the Batavia Highschool.

[BoddaH1994]

We are familiar with that plant, and you are correct they do fabricate track for B&M. Will they make one for KI? Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow... I'll let the rumor mill spin from there.

Welcome to the forums!

[Gordon Bombay]

Well you could be lying, but atleast if your lying you've made a more creative story than any other member on the forum has come up with so welcome to the forums! I pass by that Batavia plant everytime I head out that way on my drive to OU, they used to have track sitting out in their adjacent field untill pictures of track for The Patriot rollercoaster got leaked onto the net before the ride was announced.

[Browntggrr]

I still question how true the whole "non-compete" story. It has been brought up before, and there have only been rumors and no hard facts. SFWoA put in a B & M back in 2000. The same clause would have affected them as well.

Not to mention, it would be not make sense for B & M to make this kind of agreement. The more coasters they build, the more money they make. Also even if there were this *agreement* that has been mentioned before, how long would it last? The last B & M built at CP, Mantis, was built 11 years ago. That is a very long time to have this type of agreement.

And... (I'm on a roll now ), why would B & M not be able to build near CP, but CP can bring in another coaster manufacturor (Intamin).

It just doesn't make sense.

My theory is that Paramount just didn't want to spend the money on a B & M. They might be expensive, but they meet their deadlines and normally don't have major issues (i.e. Maverick, TTD, WT, SoB).

[Skywriter]

All I can say is it's a highly possible true story. The clause about the contract I have never heard that one but that sounds right.Welcome to KICentral

[PKIVortex]

A B&M would be nice for KI.

[Hank]

I'm not dissing you - but didn't B&M build for Geauga Lake/Six Flags or whatever it was called before Cedar Fair bought them? And that is only about 50 miles from CP.

[CoastersNSich]

What makes this a "viscious" rumor?

I think why Cedar Point didn't build any other B & M coasters since Mantis in 1996 could simply be, well, technology. While B&M is great for a lot of inversions and neat transitions, they generally don't go past the 200's in height. Cedar Point simply wanted 300' and 400' coasters, and Intamin was up to the challenge. And this is not to say that they didn't consider Walter and Claude for another ride at the flaghsip park.

As pointed out earlier here, if Cedar Fair had a "no-compete" contract, then why did Six Flags build a floorless at (now) Geauga Lake? Then again, Six Flags could have possibly had a "no compete" on Floorless coasters at the time, as they built a couple Medusas at Great Adventure and Discovery Kingdom, then another Batman floorless at New England. And then again, Cedar Fair did build a floorless (Hydra) at Dorney in 2005.

Or, it could have simply been a situation where Paramount Parks was not wanting B&M, because they were looking for more prototype "family" coasters that were different, though probably not as reliable or as good with capacity....

[Ki Man]

My uncle works for a plant that provides steel for Gravity Group, and I called the Boardwalk Bullet and the new coaster at waldameer, soooooo...maybe it's a posibility if this guy was being 100000% true. But who knows. A B&M hyper or floorless would be awesome, but it's all in the matter of time.

[teenageninja]

Anyone think they had a no compete clause with KI. At that point, 1996, Geagua Lake was not much of a threat to CP, while KI was.

[Vortex]

I know the non compete clause with Cedar Point is true. Now with Cedar Fair owning the park if B&M wanted to build a coaster in Kings Island they could. I read that Bush Gardens has a non compete clause with the new floor less drop coasters.

Also this was in the paper not to long ago.

[The Interpreter]

First of all, Paramount Parks DID buy B and M coasters, but not at Kings Island. Top Gun, Top Gun, Vortex come to mind, and that's just off the top of my head.

Second, anyone who thinks B and M is not up to the challenge of building coasters of more than 200 feet needs to realize B and M can and will build almost anything a client desires (but only to B and M levels of quality, ease of operation and maintenance and design)...but perhaps not at the price the client desired.

That all being said, it's a new day.

Paramount had its own select list of preferred manufacturers. Premier Rides comes immediately to mind.

The better question, in my mind, is why Cedar Fair keeps lining up at the INTAMIN window after the experiences it has had with Top Thrill Dragster and Perilous Plunge, just to name two. And now there is the late opening thingy with Maverick...

Perhaps B and M is worth the premium prices they command. . .

Just a thought. . .

[Vortex]

Well I don't think the next big coaster at Cedar Point will be made of steel. Renegade just opened with no problems. Also if Cedar Fair can fix SOB to be a good ride to replace SOB or Mean Streak with a ride like Renegade I am all for it.

I was watching my old media day tape from 1992 and Top Gun was shown as a B and M. From what I heard the Arrow was already starting to be built and it was cheaper just to change that to Top Gun. Did the other B and M Top Gun end up at another Parmaount Park?

When I get back from my trip out west I will be more than happy to show the video on KICentral.

[King Maple The Tree King]

The whole non-compete agreement rumor thing is completely bogus. Think about it, if such an agreement existed Cedar Point would have to be paying B&M quite a large sum of money to keep them out of KI then in return not purchase any B&M products in the last 11 years for the park theyre trying to keep KI from getting an edge on and then purchase 4 rollercoasters from their competition, a company of who the two B&M head designers were once a part of. If such an agreement were so CP would had to have been paying B&M quite a large sum of money and it probably wasn't worth it just to keep KI from geting a similar coaster when they did nothing about that park 50 miles down the road from getting a B&M productLike Brown said, such an agreement.

Anyone think they had a no compete clause with KI. At that point, 1996, Geagua Lake was not much of a threat to CP, while KI was.

By the time Geauga Lake was installing a B&M, they were also installing another major rollercoaster and Six Flags had made it apparent that it was going to try and give Cedar Point a run for its money (although they ultimately failed), I would think a non-compete clause would apply to them since they at the time were becoming more of a threat than the park at the southern end of the state.

I dont think there ever was a non-compete clause maybe like Browntggrr said...

My theory is that Paramount just didn't want to spend the money on a B & M.

That could be, or maybe B&M just didn't want to do business with Kings Island. Paramount Park successfully purchased multiple B&M's for other parks like PGA and PCWi, two in each park to be exact. But with all due respect to KI, it has a history of purchasing cheap prototypes and when they dont work as envisioned the Fishchers and the Webers liked to bite the hand that fed and turn right around and attempt to sue them. and as Interp stated, PP had its own brands it liked to use; such as Premeir rides.

[welchce]

If KI gets a B&M, we're all in for a real treat. I've only rode 2 B&M (Top Gun and Vortex at KGA) but I was impressed with how nice and smooth the rides were. Any type of B&M coaster would be good for KI (IMO).

[WeloveKI1234]

If Geauga Lake does have a B&M then I guess the 300 mile radius thing would be incorrect. Not sure why this dude would tell my wife this as the medical office is not for psychiatry.

[Hank]

I KNOW that coprorate world has ALL KINDS of agreements - and some are kept from the public. I personally have an agreement! So, like I said, I'm not dissing you - and I can only hope that it is true. However - I don't fit on B&M coasters (unless I lose about 125 pounds and shrink about 6 inches in heighth) so it really won't affect me one way or the other.

[Browntggrr]

Also this was in the paper not to long ago.

What paper?

I would like to look it up.

[WooferBearATL]

Also this was in the paper not to long ago.

What paper?

I would like to look it up.

B&M Article

[Browntggrr]

That is intresting.

But it still does not answer how SF could build a B&M being so close to CP and KI could not. I also question why the VP of a fabricating facility would know about B&M's contracts.

... but I have been wrong before.

[flightoffear1996]

I heard it was B&M quit going to Kings Island with new ideas because they just kept turning them down.

[Scooby_Doo]

I heard it was B&M quit going to Kings Island with new ideas because they just kept turning them down.

^I was told the same thing by a good friend.

[Browntggrr]

I heard it was B&M quit going to Kings Island with new ideas because they just kept turning them down.

If that is true, the salesman needs to be fired.

Since when does a company take "no" for an answer? Even at a multiple rate.

[flightoffear1996]

When they are turned down so much its no longer worth paying an employee to fly out to the park and pay for his hotel so he can present the idea to the park officals.

[Browntggrr]

^A company is not going to fly a salesman around the globe just for a one park visit. He will hit multiple parks on a given journey (i.e. KI, CP, Hershey, Dorney, KD, BGE, Carowinds etc.). And the cost for a hotel is about $110- minimal for the business traveler in the business of selling multi-million dollar rides.

[RingMaster]

EDIT: UncleHenry beat me to it, dangit.

Well, the Cedar Point fanboys are about to receive their own Son of Beast-style loss, as the OnPoint! blog just dropped the ball and said the heartline roll portion of the ride has been axed in place of a simpler banked S-turn. Link goes here:

OnPoint! Blog-May 17, 2007

Even though SOB is rough, the ride has gone SIX YEARS before finally having to give up its big ol' loop for a smoother ride. Maverick has YET to open and already it has to lose one of its inversions to give it a smoother ride through.

Chalk that up as another hit against Intamin (Top Thrill Dragster, Kingda Ka, now Maverick) that I know of personally.

Also interesting how many people complained about the threat of Firehawk not being able to make its Memorial Day weekend deadline, but automatically assuming that, OK, since it's Cedar Point, we know for sure that Maverick's going to be up and running once the park opens up. Even though Screamscape (whom you can't really trust most of the time) hinted at a possible delay three months ago but was knocked off too.

[TheRickster]

As for the geauga lake arguments about a compete clause, a court is allowed to overturn a competition based contract if it would benefit the city/state economy etc. Governments like to see competition.

[Browntggrr]

^If that scenario is correct, then Paramount did not want to spend the money on a case that they knew they could win. The precident that was set almost gauranteed PKI would win, and chances are CF would not even fight it in court due to their previous loss vs. SF.

But that scenario is a stretch. I'm sure the media, or some crazy enthusiast, would have gained knowledge of the proceeding and it would have been public knowledge. The in the public eye it would have been Big Bad CP vs. little GL that SF is trying to save.

[hauntguy]

Ok, I hate to add to this rumor mill, and alot people on here know that I'm truthfull in what I say... BUT...

As I was leaving the park today, both me and my fiance noticed a guy from B&M Walking into the park. I literally took a double take and asked the gentlemen if I could take his picture as proof... he declined. But we are BOTH sure that this is a B&M guy and was walking INTO Kings Island!

Ironic? -Hauntguy

[The Interpreter]

And how do you KNOW this was a B and M guy? Many enthusiasts own B and M apparel that was sold/given away at IAAPA some years back. It's been my experience that coaster company representatives on sales visits most certainly do NOT dress in company apparel. The park companies want to keep additions secret for competitive reasons for quite some time. They would be LIVID if a company rep showed up dressed in company "colors." To put it mildly.