RollerNut Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Ice has a different density and volume from water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoyageRider Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 I live 5 minutes from KK, and I drive 1 1/2 every weekenend to got to HW. I wouldn't t want to pay $10 parking + drinks. And if everyone else want to go to KK. then great! Less crowds for me. You do realize you ARE paying for parking and drinks at HW, right? It's all in perception. $119 for season passes, and we go every weekend. Growing up in So Cal were you pay $12 to park & $6 for 1 drink.... (I'm sure prices have changed by now?) HW is a bargain in comparison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Parking at Great Advencha STARTS at $22... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcgoble3 Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 ^ Kinzel Cups are only 6 oz. (or ~6.7 if you fill it to the brim) ~2 oz once you consider how much of the cup they fill with ice. Ice is just water, only colder. So it is still between 6 and 7 ounces. I was referring to the immediately drinkable liquid content. Most people probably don't want to wait for the ice to melt. Incidentally, I spotted an unopened bag of "Kinzel cups" on a counter this evening. The plastic bag was clearly marked "7 oz. cups". They don't look like 7 ounces to me. Transmitted from Wild Space via my datapad's DROID brain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoungStud Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 I live 5 minutes from KK, and I drive 1 1/2 every weekenend to got to HW. I wouldn't t want to pay $10 parking + drinks. And if everyone else want to go to KK. then great! Less crowds for me.You do realize you ARE paying for parking and drinks at HW, right? It's all in perception. $119 for season passes, and we go every weekend. Growing up in So Cal were you pay $12 to park & $6 for 1 drink.... (I'm sure prices have changed by now?) HW is a bargain in comparison Don't you get bored? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sccard01 Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Kentucky Kingdom's lastest post on facebook was very humorous to me...a small message to Holiday World 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 And since many of us do not do FaceBook, what did it say? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterfanatic83 Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 "Ahoy Mateys! This morning the pirate ship, known as "Bluebeard's Bounty", takes it's first test voyage since the park's closing. Make sure to have your sea legs about ye when sailing as this ride can reach a height of up to 57 ft!" 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medford Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 ^ Kinzel Cups are only 6 oz. (or ~6.7 if you fill it to the brim) ~2 oz once you consider how much of the cup they fill with ice. Ice is just water, only colder. So it is still between 6 and 7 ounces. I was referring to the immediately drinkable liquid content. Most people probably don't want to wait for the ice to melt. Incidentally, I spotted an unopened bag of "Kinzel cups" on a counter this evening. The plastic bag was clearly marked "7 oz. cups". They don't look like 7 ounces to me. Transmitted from Wild Space via my datapad's DROID brain I may be one of those "strange people" but I prefer the ice over the water. My ice never has a chance to melt all the way. Don't know about the peak of the Kinzel days, but for the last 3 seasons, Kings Island has never once refused to fill my children's sippie cups, my souviner cup or any other cup I've handed them with ice water any time I've asked for it. They've also never failed to give me anything less than the amount of ice waters I've asked for (even when I've asked for 8 cups when by myself and had to make two trips to drop them off to the table my group was at), they've also given me water w/o ice any time I've asked for it specifically that way. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medford Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Mr O once talked about this subject directly (what families are looking for, and what he is attempting to give them at a day at their parks) or perhaps indirectly. IIRC, he mentioned how his intention was to create a day at the park that each family would enjoy so much, that they'd want to make both repeatable trips in a season or course of seasons, but also pass along the tradition from one generation to the next. If your family has always gone to Holiday World for a summer trip or two, and the product remains satisfying (which may come into question) you're probably going to maintain that regular trip no matter what happens at Kentucky Kingdom. KK will eat into HW and KIs attendance numbers next season as people spend a day there that they would have otherwise spent at KI or HW (or a number of other parks), that is obvious, however, the average park attendee is your family that makes one or two trips a year. A School group, or church group, summer camps, etc.... While the cost of gas and the time spent getting there is a factor, its a relatively small factor once you consider that its a one or two times a year event for a family. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyGuy4KI Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 Very well stated medford!I hope this makes sense to the MB! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlington Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 KK better have a darned good security department. It's on a major local bus route that has connections to the entire city - good and bad parts. Not to mention the area of town it is in is not exactly the best. Ed Hart's biggest challenge will be crowd control not running the rides. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sccard01 Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 The park is located at the center of Louisville. Right Across from the airport. Hart has already mentioned before that secuirty will be infor....wait....SO OFF TOPIC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 So not...the many previous incidents under all three ownerships show there is reason for concern. Apparently, you'd rather shush the concern. We understand that. Shushing or pretending the problem will go away won't address it. HW and KK are close competitors. So close that HW had a billboard right outside KK many years. HW has many problems right now. How much of a competitor KK will or won't be is a factor. Apparently, you don't think so? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyGuy4KI Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 So not...the many previous incidents under all three ownerships show there is reason for concern. Apparently, you'd rather shush the concern. We understand that. Shushing or pretending the problem will go away won't address it. HW and KK are close competitors. So close that HW had a billboard right outside KK many years. HW has many problems right now. How much of a competitor KK will or won't be is a factor. Apparently, you don't think so? I don't know about this season, but I never felt like HW had issues enforcing and adhering to park rules and having people abide by them. If they are attracting some of the same crowd as KK then there are some of the same personalities at HW. What has HW done different to chance people's behavior? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 HW draws from a VERY different demographic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 As much as it pains me to say it, I think Lori Koch has a better bead on her target audience than Ed Hart does. Cheapest park? $60 season passes? Who is that going to attract? Does the business model even work? Hard to say. You may not know this, but I run a fan site for a park that has thought for a few years that essentially giving season passes away in the Fall and presenting a lot of events that many wouldn't call "classy" would be a good business decision. The demographics of the place have gone way, way, way down over the past 5 or so years, but profitability has been up. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldiesmann Posted September 13, 2013 Share Posted September 13, 2013 I'm also wondering how KK will affect Beech Bend's attendance, since BB is only 2 hours from Louisville. Granted, BB and HW are much different parks, but I'm sure they drew at least some of the KK crowd as well. Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTD-120-420 Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 I couldn't find the official topic for the Holiday World legal trouble, so I'll post it here. Appeals Court Sides With Lori Koch in Holiday World Ownership Dispute: http://www.indystar.com/article/20131003/BUSINESS/310030044/Appeals-Court-sides-widow-rather-than-brother-law-Holiday-World-dispute?nclick_check=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malem Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 ^ Here's the full appellate decision: http://www.in.gov/judiciary/opinions/pdf/10031306pdm.pdf And here's the topic with previous discussion: http://www.KICentral.com/forums/index.php?/topic/26939-hw-matt-eckert-named-new-president-and-ceo/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekidd33 Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 That is quite unfortunate. The next few years could be very important ones for HW. I hope my future children and grandchildren get to experience the same fun, welcoming, and memorable park that I grew up going to each summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joncars05 Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 That is quite unfortunate. The next few years could be very important ones for HW. I hope my future children and grandchildren get to experience the same fun, welcoming, and memorable park that I grew up going to each summer. Trust me after going to the ERT event on Sept 14th and talking with specific people working at HW this is great news and is being received as such by that specific group of people. The park is in great hands and will still be around for many many years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Wow. I just read the Court's opinion. The decision states the findings in the trial court, reviews the law, and affirms. A recap: * The parties had agreed to a share price. Neither the park corporation nor Dan offered that price. * Dan attempted to greatly escalate his own salary to have more money to fund buying out Will's estate. * Dan still owed Natalie more than $10,000,000 at the time. * the park corporation offered to buy far less of Will's stock than it could legally afford to. * the park corporation tried to set off a loan to Will that was not yet due..in essence shorting its offer by another $2.67+ million. * The buy-sell agreement had strict deadlines, that the park corporation and Dan missed. When given time to fix this, they didn't. I HAD thought the trial court was clearly wrong. Instead, I was clearly wrong when I thought that. I don't know that Holiday World is in the most capable ownership or management right now. I do know from reading this decision it is clear to me that Dan Koch tried to engage in whatever was necessary to get Lori Koch and her children out of the park--down to paying them less than the agreed to price for Will's shares. And that's wrong. To those who I argued with while busy defending Dan Koch, I was wrong. I'm sorry. I was very, very wrong about Dan. I'm very saddened and disappointed. I feel terrible for Pat Koch. A sad, sad day for the Koch family. And all out there for anyone to read. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRider Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 A sad and unfortunate turn of events for a lovely family business. Some times a family tragedy can either strengthen or tear a family apart. I can only imagine what they must feel and how the family may never recover. Let alone the business implications. One of the many reasons I never went in to the family business. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 One more thing. To quote the Court: "...there was ample evidence from which a reasonable trier of fact could have concluded that Dan and KDC did not act in good faith." Sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joncars05 Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Wow. I just read the Court's opinion. The decision states the findings in the trial court, reviews the law, and affirms. A recap: * The parties had agreed to a share price. Neither the park corporation nor Dan offered that price. * Dan attempted to greatly escalate his own salary to have more money to fund buying out Will's estate. * Dan still owed Natalie more than $10,000,000 at the time. * the park corporation offered to buy far less of Will's stock than it could legally afford to. * the park corporation tried to set off a loan to Will that was not yet due..in essence shorting its offer by another $2.67+ million. * The buy-sell agreement had strict deadlines, that the park corporation and Dan missed. When given time to fix this, they didn't. I HAD thought the trial court was clearly wrong. Instead, I was clearly wrong when I thought that. I don't know that Holiday World is in the most capable ownership or management right now. I do know from reading this decision it is clear to me that Dan Koch tried to engage in whatever was necessary to get Lori Koch and her children out of the park--down to paying them less than the agreed to price for Will's shares. And that's wrong. To those who I argued with while busy defending Dan Koch,I was wrong. I'm sorry. I wa very wrong about Dan. I'm very saddened and disappointed. I feel terrible for Pat Koch. A sad, sad day for the Koch family. And all out there for anyone to read. There is no need to apologize. I don't think you were rude when you expressed your opinion. No one knew the full extent of what happened until they finally released all the info today. I would like to say that the park is in great hands right now. Matt is the man who was working side by side with Will during the huge explosion of popularity for HW. I believe Matt worked with him up until the day Will passed away. I believe that Matt will continue to work towards what Will wanted because Matt as well as Lori and Lori & Will's kids, might be the only people who knew the extent of Will's vision for the park. I believe the future of the park is bright and will continue to flourish when Lori & Will's kids are old enough to take over the park. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 The Court's final footnote is also darning. In the vernacular, it states Dan asserts the park was to be kept in the Koch family. The Court then notes that Will's kids are Koch family. Elsewhere in the opinion the Court drollly notes that Dan is not coming away penniless nor without an interest in the park, as he still holds KDC stock worth tens of millions. (40 percent of the stock) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekidd33 Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 After reading through the whole decision I no longer know what to think. It is sad to see a park and family that seem to have such a clear vision a few years ago go through such tough times. Hopefully this works out in the best interest of both the park and the family. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastForever Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 *Meanwhile, absolutely NO signs of Timberliners being installed on the Voyage in the years to come... Sigh. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TombRaiderFTW Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 ^ They officially pulled the plug a few months ago (early August, I think.) It's on the HoliBlog. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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