Person Dies at Schlitterbahn Kansas City

[KI Guy]

King Ding Dong I'll try to answer your question. Generally a ride will re-open fairly soon if an investigation reveals that the accident was caused by rider or operator error, or was the result of, or was an aggravation of a pre-existing medical condition.

Most amusement park accidents fall into these categories.

If the ride itself is flawed and is legitimately unsafe,(and safety extends beyond common sense in today's society), the rides will usually be modified to ensure that they are now safe before re-opening. The changes to New Texas Giant, and the Intamin Drop Tower comes to mind. Sometimes the park will decide to close the ride, or they can be forced to close it if they cannot ensure safety in the future.

Now I say all this, but it should be noted that amusement park accidents with serious injury or death, especially those involving innocent, behaving, guests, are very rare in today's amusement parks. Unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up being one of those tragic cases.

[Kenban]

^ I think that's an autocorrect error. Probably meant "pre-existing conditions".

It was, I wrote that on my phone.

[Oldschool75]

Meanwhile Robb Alvey is blaming while claiming to not be blaming the parents. He's actually saying "what kind of parents let a 10 year old ride the world's tallest water slide without them?" That's frankly ridiculous, insensitive, and wrong.

Mr. BAlvey also seems to claim that if the parents had been on the slide they could have calmed him or prevented him from removing the restraint. If that was indeed a problem.

Let's think about that. TTD is a quick intense ride with about the same duration. So next time you are on it try and have a conversation and reassure the person in the row in front of you. After launch of course.

If you disagree with anything he posts you are a "stupid idiot" and will almost certainly receive a permanent ban.

There is a weight restriction. I know the age restriction was removed. Question is How was this kid allowed to ride? I see this slide never reopening and being dismantled.

Sent from my iOS 10 device

The 400-550lb range is very narrow. Say you have three 190lb adults that want to ride. Can't do all three or even just 2. Have three 100lb kids, can't do it.

Reportedly kids are often used as filler to balance out the ride. If a lawyer is able to establish that in court......

And there are ways to handle that...see Mammoth at HW. There is a scale the riding party gets on. Not that hard.

Sent from my iOS 10 device

[King Ding Dong]

^ Not sure what you are trying to say. From my understanding there is a scale at check in and a scale on the platform to recheck before loading.

My point is a good lawyer will be able to spin the fact that they "use" children to pair up with adults to get the raft into the range.

[The Interpreter]

VERY upsetting article:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/08/10/boy-decapitated-on-kansas-waterslide-passengers-claim-it-was-clearly-unsafe.html

Summary omitted. Click at your own risk.

[RollerNut]

Very Disheartening, my wife and I both were thinking that Velcro isn't strong enough to actually hold the riders in.

"Jon Rust, a professor of textile engineering at North Carolina State University, said the material used on the straps, commonly called hook and loop, isn't designed to keep a person in the seat. It also can get old and degrade with use."

Couldn't the park or supplier of the straps be held liable for using materials that aren't designed for the purpose they are being used for?

[Joncars05]

VERY upsetting article:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/08/10/boy-decapitated-on-kansas-waterslide-passengers-claim-it-was-clearly-unsafe.html

Summary omitted. Click at your own risk.

The thing that bothers me about this is how this person, no matter what his position, who hasn't been on the ride, took part in its construction, or has even seen the ride in person can make a judgement like this:

Ken Martin, a Richmond, Virginia-based amusement park safety consultant, questioned whether the straps were appropriate for what he called "nothing more than a roller coaster with water."

Although he has not seen or ridden Verruckt, Martin said a more solid restraint system that fits over the body - similar to those used in roller coasters - may have been better.

"I think we have a serious issue with the restraint system. Period,” he said.

He hasn't even seen the ride in person yet knows which exact restraint the park should have been using? It just adds sensationalism and pseudo facts to an already unfortunate and muddled situation.

[The Interpreter]

But what did the lifeguard purportedly tell a rider?

[Gabe]

King Ding Dong I'll try to answer your question. Generally a ride will re-open fairly soon if an investigation reveals that the accident was caused by rider or operator error, or was the result of, or was an aggravation of a pre-existing medical condition.

Most amusement park accidents fall into these categories.

If the ride itself is flawed and is legitimately unsafe,(and safety extends beyond common sense in today's society), the rides will usually be modified to ensure that they are now safe before re-opening. The changes to New Texas Giant, and the Intamin Drop Tower comes to mind. Sometimes the park will decide to close the ride, or they can be forced to close it if they cannot ensure safety in the future.

Now I say all this, but it should be noted that amusement park accidents with serious injury or death, especially those involving innocent, behaving, guests, are very rare in today's amusement parks. Unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up being one of those tragic cases.

See: Boomerang at SFSTL.  Still SBNO going on 2 months..

[Joncars05]

But what did the lifeguard purportedly tell a rider?

I did. I still am going to take it as word of mouth and not accurate. Eyewitness statements are rarely accurate and I find her statement fishy to begin with as she was supposedly able to have a back and forth conversation on a previous ride after noticing a strap came loose in less than 15 seconds... Its just so much information is coming in from so many different sources that I've taken a 'wait and see what the final investigation says' position before I make a true comment on what happened. Its just a delicate situation and so unfortunate that a young child lost his life on a day that was supposed to be safe and fun.

Me personally I just can't take eyewitness quotes with any seriousness just because of how many "eyewitness stories" from people I know seeing multiple people "die" on Son of Beast. Same with The Crypt and it being closed because people fell out of the ride and the eyewitness was on the ride and saw it themselves when it happened.

[shark6495]

But the guy being interviewed isn't just a random Joe. He's a amusement park ride safety consultant. His job is to consult on ride safety. From everything he does I feel he can make a general statement.

Also if the Velcro was to hold you in how safe do you feel with Velcro holding you in. We don't trust Velcro to hold our pockets shut to keep a cell phone from flying out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RailRider]

And the park continues to say nothing...

[Joncars05]

But the guy being interviewed isn't just a random Joe. He's a amusement park ride safety consultant. His job is to consult on ride safety. From everything he does I feel he can make a general statement.

Also if the Velcro was to hold you in how safe do you feel with Velcro holding you in. We don't trust Velcro to hold our pockets shut to keep a cell phone from flying out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree with you. He may be knowledgeable in the field of ride safety. But he is talking about restraints on a ride he admittingly has NEVER worked on, NEVER consulted for, NEVER built, NEVER ridden, and has NEVER even seen in person before.

Dennis Spiegel is a highly respected person in the field of amusement parks. I was at Coasterstock where he basically mouthed into the mic that KI was going to get a giga coaster for 2017... He had no idea. Same where he though Diamondback was going to be a dive coaster in 2009... Way off the mark with that as well. Just because you hold a high position in a certain area doesn't mean you know exactly what is going on in a park that you are not directly involved with.

Here's a kicker, what if the problem wasn't with the restraint? What if the restraint worked perfectly and held the passengers in the boat just as it was designed to do? That still wouldn't have prevented the injuries that killed the boy and injured the other people in the boat.

I'm not trying to be rude or anything I'm just saying I'm in a wait until the official investigation is done and official findings are released so we have a true idea of what happened.

[Joncars05]

And the park continues to say nothing...

Why should they? The just had a 10 year old boy DIE in their park, on their ride! To top it off it was a legislator's son that passed away. You better believe they won't say a word until the investigation is done.

[shark6495]

But the guy being interviewed isn't just a random Joe. He's a amusement park ride safety consultant. His job is to consult on ride safety. From everything he does I feel he can make a general statement.

Also if the Velcro was to hold you in how safe do you feel with Velcro holding you in. We don't trust Velcro to hold our pockets shut to keep a cell phone from flying out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree with you. He may be knowledgeable in the field of ride safety. But he is talking about restraints on a ride he admittingly has NEVER worked on, NEVER consulted for, NEVER built, NEVER ridden, and has NEVER even seen in person before.

Dennis Spiegel is a highly respected person in the field of amusement parks. I was at Coasterstock where he basically mouthed into the mic that KI was going to get a giga coaster for 2017... He had no idea. Same where he though Diamondback was going to be a dive coaster in 2009... Way off the mark with that as well. Just because you hold a high position in a certain area doesn't mean you know exactly what is going on in a park that you are not directly involved with.

Here's a kicker, what if the problem wasn't with the restraint? What if the restraint worked perfectly and held the passengers in the boat just as it was designed to do? That still wouldn't have prevented the injuries that killed the boy and injured the other people in the boat.

I'm not trying to be rude or anything I'm just saying I'm in a wait until the official investigation is done and official findings are released so we have a true idea of what happened.

I get what you are saying but comparing what Spiegel said to what this guy said is an apples and oranges type of discussion.

For example: in my field I work closely with patients who have a hard time swallowing. If you were to give me just basic facts, say a person coughs every time they swallow, I can say with almost 99% certainty that they need thickened liquids. I don't need to see them to say that. Now if you were to ask me if the facility was going to get rid of thickening powder and move to already made thickened drinks, my ability to predict that is the same Spiegel.

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[The Interpreter]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-kansas-waterslide-decapitated20160810-story.html

[MantisMan]

Here's a kicker, what if the problem wasn't with the restraint? What if the restraint worked perfectly and held the passengers in the boat just as it was designed to do? That still wouldn't have prevented the injuries that killed the boy and injured the other people in the boat.

 

How do you know?

[Joncars05]

 

Here's a kicker, what if the problem wasn't with the restraint? What if the restraint worked perfectly and held the passengers in the boat just as it was designed to do? That still wouldn't have prevented the injuries that killed the boy and injured the other people in the boat.

 

How do you know?

 

Sorry I meant to use the words "may have not" instead of "wouldn't". Because I'll be the first to claim that I don't know what happened. That's why I was waiting until the official findings are released before placing blame anywhere. 

[BeeastFarmer]

I didn't take Mr. Spiegel's "oh it's to coming" to mean this year. With his connections, I'd be very surprised if he wasn't in the know.

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[Diamondback96]

So, where's that dive coaster?

[CoasterDirected]

So, where's that dive coaster?

 

Cedar Point

[RailRider]

 

And the park continues to say nothing...

Why should they? The just had a 10 year old boy DIE in their park, on their ride! To top it off it was a legislator's son that passed away. You better believe they won't say a word until the investigation is done.

 

 

 

There have been many stories, especially in the beginning that had lots of inaccurate information about the ride and its operations.  The correct PR move is to combat the wrong information with correct information and to also promote how they are helping the family and fully cooperating with the investigation.  Instead their silence leads to rampant speculation and accusation.  The longer they stay silent the guiltier they look.  Right or Wrong.  

 

Companies that burry their heads in the sand struggle through these events much more than companies that appear to be transparent.  

[TombRaiderFTW]

^ SeaWorld is a great example of that. Their silence concerning Blackfish and PETA has bitten them in the butt, and they're still recovering from the backlash.

 

I fully agree with your idea that parks should acknowledge customers' doubts instead of ignoring them, RailRider, but I also have to ask: how should Schlitterbahn be responding right now, without further information being available? I'm not asking that with an ulterior motive--I'm just genuinely curious to know what your thoughts are. Would it be to emphasize their cooperation with the authorities?

[BeeastFarmer]

So, where's that dive coaster?

Mr. Speigel is likely a part of the teasing. 

[RailRider]

^ SeaWorld is a great example of that. Their silence concerning Blackfish and PETA has bitten them in the butt, and they're still recovering from the backlash.

 

I fully agree with your idea that parks should acknowledge customers' doubts instead of ignoring them, RailRider, but I also have to ask: how should Schlitterbahn be responding right now, without further information being available? I'm not asking that with an ulterior motive--I'm just genuinely curious to know what your thoughts are. Would it be to emphasize their cooperation with the authorities?

 

 

Yes that is correct.  Cooperation with the authorities, the investigation and support of the family in this time of tragedy.  Also they need to continually refrain from placing blame and discuss what actions are being taken to resolve and prevent future issues.  See the Disney Alligator incident and this discussion of it via the Wall Street Journal  

http://blogs.wsj.com/riskandcompliance/2016/06/28/crisis-of-the-week-disney-responds-to-alligator-killing-boy/  

Was the response perfect? By no means, but handled much better than this.  

[Beast Gal]

Can you please refrain from using red. It's so hard on myself and others eyes. Thanks.

[teenageninja]

Can you please refrain from using red. It's so hard on myself and others eyes. Thanks.

 

Perhaps you need to go see an eye doctor.

[WWC2003Amy]

Really? Red is impolite especially to those people that are colorblind

Sent from.... Hello is this thing on?

[shark6495]

Can you please refrain from using red. It's so hard on myself and others eyes. Thanks.

Great addition to the conversation. Glad you are pat of these boards......

Back on topic.... Yes Railriders response is right. Something anything that just says what a terrible moment for all families involved. Out of respect for the family they would like to not comment on anything until the police have finished their investigation.

There are reasons good PR teams are able to make thigs disappear. There is a formula to good and bad PR. You want to almost (from a general audience point of view) want this to disappear. WDW if I recall didn't keep making statements following the gator. The settlement was done discreetly and it blew over the best it could. I don't think they made a big deal about closing the beaches they just did it. Quietly and methodically.

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[RailRider]

Disney also made it a point to feed the bloggers and such information about signs, fencing and rocks going up.  Disney never used their official social media platforms to make these announcements but fed it to the Disney bloggers for them to post.

 

Good PR is controlling the message and news flow as best as possible.