Discussing Land and Space in and around Vortex

[IceePirate]

52 minutes ago, gforce1994 said:

The northernmost markers seen so far are south of The Bat.

There's new markers already?

[IndyGuy4KI]

1 hour ago, gforce1994 said:

I wouldn’t be so sure. It’ll get a coaster, in the future. I’m thinking the area in front will be a coaster, followed by a coaster in The Vortex site.

Keep in mind, survey flags don't necessarily mean coaster. 

[FUN&ONLY!]

9 minutes ago, IndyGuy4KI said:

Keep in mind, survey flags don't necessarily mean coaster. 

But survey flags CAN mean coaster. Speculation like this is fun even if these flags turn out to be nothing.

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

Remember we have a thread dedicated to the new survey markings. This thread is for The Vortex area. 

[IndyGuy4KI]

38 minutes ago, FUN&ONLY! said:

But survey flags CAN mean coaster. Speculation like this is fun even if these flags turn out to be nothing.

I totally agree, but gforce's posts make it seem like his mind made up on it being a coaster. I don't think we can make that assumption and don't want to get hung up on that.

Getting back in topic again, do you see Vortex's replacement being a tall coaster or closer to the ground?

[NathanJamesPay1]

I would love to see anything RMC or our very own blitz coaster like Maverick!!

[IndyGuy4KI]

This thread was cleaned up. Citing your own content on a fellow fan site is not giving a source no matter how accurate it may be. Please use a reputable source (not your own content) if you are going to state something as fact, otherwise you are misleading fellow KIC members and other park fans and is against the TOS. 

[MillenniumforceMike]

I know someone might have already done this but
the length from beast to WindSeeker midway is 512 ft
The crest of the lift to the mid section of the turn around over the bathrooms is 523
from larosa's to Vortex's old station is 457
so I measured Blue Fire
Length is 479
Width is 226
so something about the size of Blue Fire could fit perfectly.
Now what if they went for a new multi-looper, a b&m floorless could work perfectly but it depends on rougarou.
The largest to my knowledge is Bizarro/Scream at Great Adventure and Magic Mountain.

Length is 552 ft 
Width is 523 ft. So Bizarro is fine, they'd just have to move their troika.

[silver2005]

^Well, all you do is just change the angles on a bit of track and/or change up the elements and it will fit fine w/o removing anything.  KI isn't likely to put a clone of anything, especially on the scale of a B&M or Mack launch coaster. 

Also, the largest floorless is KD's Dominator for overall length (4,210 ft) and SFFT's Superman: Krypton Coaster for height (168 ft) out of the non-dive floorlesses.  Most are in the ballpark of Vortex's size, so very possible to put a large floorless there. 

[SonofBaconator]

14 minutes ago, silver2005 said:

Also, the largest floorless is KD's Dominator for overall length (4,210 ft) and SFFT's Superman: Krypton Coaster for height (168 ft) out of the non-dive floorlesses.  Most are in the ballpark of Vortex's size, so very possible to put a large floorless there. 

That's why I never counted a floorless out for a potential Vortex replacement. The park could easily break both Dominator and Superman's records and be THE floorless coaster. "Kings Island has the world's tallest, fastest, and longest floorless coaster." The stats would be easily marketable and could give traditional loopers and floorless coasters like Kumba, Medusa, and Kraken a run for their money. 

I'm not an expert on what could go in that land however. It could be a Mack, it could be a B&M, it could be something completely different. Floorlesses haven't been built ground up in the US for a while since everyone hopped on the bandwagon in the early 2000s. If KI got one I think it would be something special. While other parks experiment with new and prototypical coasters, KI would go back to the basics. I know there's still a decent number of members who would have preferred us to get Dominator over Firehawk. 

This is my personal hope to just take it with a grain of salt.

[MillenniumforceMike]

22 minutes ago, silver2005 said:

^Well, all you do is just change the angles on a bit of track and/or change up the elements and it will fit fine w/o removing anything.  KI isn't likely to put a clone of anything, especially on the scale of a B&M or Mack launch coaster. 

Also, the largest floorless is KD's Dominator for overall length (4,210 ft) and SFFT's Superman: Krypton Coaster for height (168 ft) out of the non-dive floorlesses.  Most are in the ballpark of Vortex's size, so very possible to put a large floorless there. 

I was referring to the size by area

[Rifleman]

I recently posted a video on my Youtube channel about what factors will influence the replacement, as well as some options I think are being evaluated. I am new to this youtube thing, and would love some feedback on it. Thanks!

 

 

 

[CorkscrewMcPuke]

On 8/15/2020 at 8:37 PM, IndyGuy4KI said:

Getting back in topic again, do you see Vortex's replacement being a tall coaster or closer to the ground?

I could honestly see it being a water ride of some sort. The park could definitely use a full sized log flume or something similar.

[MillenniumforceMike]

I wanna see them do a terrain coaster. Something along the lines of Taron at Phantasialand but with Mack. It should be seen a little from the midway though.

[MrSourNinja]

As much as I would be meh about the addition, my bets are on a B&M dive coaster going there, maybe with a water dive like YS. I would much prefer a terrain hugging launched coaster with a section along the creek in the valley though (Kinda like Cheeta Hunt's second half). 

[coaster sally]

Still don't get people's fascination about mack.  Their launch coasters are meh and there are only a handfull.

[SonofBaconator]

28 minutes ago, coaster sally said:

Still don't get people's fascination about mack.

They're reliable

[Rifleman]

27 minutes ago, SonofBaconator said:

They're reliable

And VERY smooth.

[JimParker85]

Time Traveler is excellent, and Helix looks fantastic with its use of that terrain. Copperhead was very good, but not elite. 

[MillenniumforceMike]

3 hours ago, MrSourNinja said:

As much as I would be meh about the addition, my bets are on a B&M dive coaster going there, maybe with a water dive like YS. I would much prefer a terrain hugging launched coaster with a section along the creek in the valley though (Kinda like Cheeta Hunt's second half). 

Only reason why I say they aren't getting a B&M dive is because Cedar Point is 4 hours away.
so you need to look at logically. Yes Canada's Wonderland is only 5 and half hours away but it's in a different Country. look at KD and BGW. They're only an hour apart but they look at each other's additions so that the General Public don't say "Oh look, Kings Dominion Copied The Griffon"

[BeastForever]

2 hours ago, coaster sally said:

Still don't get people's fascination about mack.  Their launch coasters are meh and there are only a handfull.

People can like rides for different reasons. What Mack launched coasters lack in intensity or force, depending on who you ask are made up for in hangtime, comfort, and more gracefulness. I think its just a matter of preference really. And I'd argue that its not always clear-cut as GP preferring the former, and enthusiasts the latter.

If we're going by TPR's poll/ranking system (which is based on Mitch Hawker-style methodology, and thus is free from the biases and inherent problems that many know Golden Tickets' rankings to have) Mack launched coasters actually rank very similarly to Intamin launched coasters...

For reference,

Maverick and Taron are ranked #4 and #8 respectively in the 2019 Steel Poll.

Helix, Mack's highest ranked launcher, is not far behind at #10.

Going down the list, we have iSpeed (Intamin) at #30, and Icon (Mack) at #33

Then there is Time Traveler at #52, Copperhead Strike at #60, and between those two Cheetah Hunt and Xcelerator at #58 and #59.

--

Therefore, all throughout the "hierarchy" of launched coasters, it seems that Mack has proven that they can, for a lack of a better term (and no pun intended), "hang" with Intamin, even in the realm in strictly-enthusiast opinions...

This goes along with a point I made in another thread, in that not working with Intamin by no means precludes Kings Island from building a highly-ranked launched, "world class" launched coaster in the future, whether it be in The Vortex plot or elsewhere.

[MrSourNinja]

4 minutes ago, MillenniumforceMike said:

Only reason why I say they aren't getting a B&M dive is because Cedar Point is 4 hours away.
so you need to look at logically. Yes Canada's Wonderland is only 5 and half hours away but it's in a different Country. look at KD and BGW. They're only an hour apart but they look at each other's additions so that the General Public don't say "Oh look, Kings Dominion Copied The Griffon"

That doesn't really matter for a dive as much though. Dives are very marketable and the GP really love them. Kings Island/ Cedar Fair hasn't really been adding unique models recently and I wouldn't expect that to change. Val and Yukon both did well enough and with B&M track being made so close, I wouldn't be at all surprised to get another B&M. And I'll eat my shoe, but a floorless is not happening. Neither will a wing because of GateKeeper's mediocre popularity. Surf coaster is unproven and unconfirmed. Sit down looper is not happening. That leaves Dive and flyer. Most likely won't get a flyer after Firehawk.. I could be wrong there though. Only B&M option is dive. Other than B&Ms, I could see a RMC or Mack Multi-Launch. I don't see much else happening besides those 3 options.

[RayFields]

Lot of nice ideas here but I would greatly prefer an X2 killing S&S Axis 4D coaster over all other options. If people are going gaga over a 800 ft. prototype I can't imagine what a full scale model would be like. Reliability and Maintenance costs would obviously be the biggest concerns and may be a deal breaker but these things look to be a riot.

https://attractionsmagazine.com/my-test-ride-on-axis-the-next-evolution-of-roller-coaster/

"As the coaster launches (approximately 0-70 in 1.8 seconds on the prototype! WOAH!) I am thrust back into my seat; then, what looks like an outer bank turn flipped me over, but it only flipped the vehicles, as the track doesn’t do a full inversion. Wait! Did I just do a barrel roll even though the track didn’t? I’m not sure I have time to figure it out as I’m immediately on the side of the track instead of above it in the next element, a banked turn, that immediately drops me into something no other coaster has ever done. I’m not so sure this next element even has a name, as the coaster floats over the track providing a bit of sustained airtime. I made one more fast bank to the right that was so sharp, the cart rotated almost 90 degrees through the final element. It blew past the launch track and back up toward the first section that inverted"

"I have no words at this moment. How? What? Where? Nevermind, my mind couldn’t comprehend what just happened. I guess I need to try it again. Launch. Repeat. Launch. Repeat. Launch. Repeat. I just cannot wrap my mind around what is happening."

"After somewhere north of six or so rides, I finally had an understanding of what’s happening. Barely. I could sit here and try to describe this all day, but I would just end up talking in circles. So much happened in 800 feet of track that it may as well be a full coaster in itself, but it isn’t. In fact, the full-scale version is going to be even more insane. 

So, which theme park is getting one? Well, we don’t know. When can you ride it? Again, we don’t know. Once a park purchases one from S&S, it’ll be a while before it’s built and ready to ride. Also note that whatever theme park company buys it, they will name it themselves, so it may not have Axis in the title. But you’ll know it when you see it.

But, there is a lot we did learn about the design and the tracking system. The coaster rotations feel random, but are actually extremely controlled. While there may be some slight variation based on weight, every element was designed to make the car do what they want. In the back seat POV in the video above you can see a giant “wheel” made of metal on the back of the seat that rotates. That wheel actually contains magnets that control the speed of rotation. The roller coaster’s speed and the track transitions determine exactly what the car is going to do. This is roller coaster design taken to the next level."

Unfortunately, as this prototype isn’t open to the public. You may have to wait a few years to fully understand what that next level coaster is. I promise though, it’ll be worth the wait.

Sorry Steel Vengeance, you are no longer my number one roller coaster. That title belongs to 800 feet of track in an empty field in the middle of nowhere Utah."

 

Yeah I'll take one....

 

[SonofBaconator]

@MrSourNinja I have a concept: a dive/floorless

Imagine a dive that features 6 seats instead of the traditional 8. This would allow for regular B&M track which would same some money. You'd have the dive aspect with the 90° hang over the drop but with the standard spine you could incorporate more inversions.

For example, imagine Kraken or Dominator but with 3 row 6 seater dive trains, a holding break and a 90° drop. Just an idea I had.

Think Valkyria with twice as many inversions

 

[coaster sally]

1 hour ago, BeastForever said:

People can like rides for different reasons. What Mack launched coasters lack in intensity or force, depending on who you ask are made up for in hangtime, comfort, and more gracefulness. I think its just a matter of preference really. And I'd argue that its not always clear-cut as GP preferring the former, and enthusiasts the latter.

If we're going by TPR's poll/ranking system (which is based on Mitch Hawker-style methodology, and thus is free from the biases and inherent problems that many know Golden Tickets' rankings to have) Mack launched coasters actually rank very similarly to Intamin launched coasters...

For reference,

Maverick and Taron are ranked #4 and #8 respectively in the 2019 Steel Poll.

Helix, Mack's highest ranked launcher, is not far behind at #10.

Going down the list, we have iSpeed (Intamin) at #30, and Icon (Mack) at #33

Then there is Time Traveler at #52, Copperhead Strike at #60, and between those two Cheetah Hunt and Xcelerator at #58 and #59.

--

Therefore, all throughout the "hierarchy" of launched coasters, it seems that Mack has proven that they can, for a lack of a better term (and no pun intended), "hang" with Intamin, even in the realm in strictly-enthusiast opinions...

This goes along with a point I made in another thread, in that not working with Intamin by no means precludes Kings Island from building a highly-ranked launched, "world class" launched coaster in the future, whether it be in The Vortex plot or elsewhere.

What macks have you ridden?

[FUN&ONLY!]

I am heavily leaning towards a MACK Rides multi-launch (maybe spinning) replacing Vortex. Something like Copperhead Strike would be different enough from Maverick with its hangtime, and it would also be MUCH more reliable than Maverick. MACK Rides’ coasters all have incredibly comfy restraints which is also very important. Also, these rides are incredibly photogenic which is important because Vortex’s replacement has to live up to Vortex’s standards. I will say this... if we do get a MACK Rides multi-launch, I think it will feature 5 car trains like Helix in order for us to have 3 trains of 20 rides compared to Copperhead Strike and Time Traveler’s 3 trains of 16 riders.

[silver2005]

I wonder if B&M would go beyond vertical for a dive coaster.  

[JimParker85]

The 6 across dives look interesting. Valkyria has a great looking layout and rides fairly intense according to a couple a couple of reviews I've seen. Cost savings could be a factor as well. 

[MrSourNinja]

1 hour ago, SonofBaconator said:

@MrSourNinja I have a concept: a dive/floorless

Imagine a dive that features 6 seats instead of the traditional 8. This would allow for regular B&M track which would same some money. You'd have the dive aspect with the 90° hang over the drop but with the standard spine you could incorporate more inversions.

For example, imagine Kraken or Dominator but with 3 row 6 seater dive trains, a holding break and a 90° drop. Just an idea I had.

This Valkyria with twice as many inversions

 

I like the style of coaster shown but I am not sure that 3 rows of 6 is enough capacity. I think if they went dive in that plot, some sort of water feature is basically required. And more inversions than a standard dive.

[SonofBaconator]

7 minutes ago, MrSourNinja said:

I like the style of coaster shown but I am not sure that 3 rows of 6 is enough capacity.

They could do a station like Maverick where they have two trains that they load at once. After a train clears the holding break, the second one could begin its ascent up the lift hill.