Discussing Land and Space in and around Vortex

[silver2005]

I still think Mack or RMC are the way to go because one thing I think also needs to be in play, even if this an inversion centered coaster, is that it should keep Vortex's 48" height requirement.  I think Vortex more or less worked as a stepping stone coaster for people who were too short for Banshee and Diamondback.  

[Rivertown Rider]

A modern multi launch like Copperhead would be great for KI.  It would be something different than CP has.  Also Mack probably has the most comfortable restraints of any of the steel manufacturers.  With FOF being 25 years old realistically how many more years does it have in it as well.

[SonofBaconator]

People mention dives a lot too. I've said this before but a 6 row-mini dive with 5-6 inversions would be out of this world. 

https://images.app.goo.gl/QwaxDy5Dk7gAhwNF9

[IndyGuy4KI]

I really am not sure we need another B&M right now. I think it is time to bring in Gerstlauer or Mack for that plot of land.

[VortexBFForever]

As much as I enjoy and appreciate Orion, Diamondback, and Banshee, I do not want a B&M in Vortex's space. I personally hope for Vortex's successor to feature a handful of inversions with a lower height requirement (48") as I know from my experience working at Vortex that a lot of young thrill-seekers set foot inside Kings Island. Dare I say that it MUST be as photogenic as Vortex was, in its own way. Bonus points if it breaks a record!

Right now, a Mack multi-launch has my vote. Granted, I have not yet ridden one, but Copperhead Strike looks fun (and photogenic) and I hope to visit Carowinds this year to find that out for myself!

[coaster sally]

10 hours ago, Rivertown Rider said:

A modern multi launch like Copperhead would be great for KI.  It would be something different than CP has.  Also Mack probably has the most comfortable restraints of any of the steel manufacturers.  With FOF being 25 years old realistically how many more years does it have in it as well.

I am not allowed to say the name of the manufacturer but the new generations restraints that started with Taron are regarded as being better.  Macks tighten up, granted not as bad as skyrush restraints, but those are the first generation.

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

23 minutes ago, coaster sally said:

I am not allowed to say the name of the manufacturer but the new generations restraints that started with Taron are regarded as being better.  Macks tighten up, granted not as bad as skyrush restraints, but those are the first generation.

Why aren't you allowed to say Intamin lol

[coaster sally]

6 minutes ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

Why aren't you allowed to say Intamin lol

I have been censured.

[Rivertown Rider]

I haven't noticed Time Traveler or Copperhead Strike tightening up.  The worst restraints as far as tightening are the B&M vest restraints.

I haven't ridden any of the recent Intamins.  The youngest of the Intamins I have ridden was Skyrush.

[coaster sally]

18 minutes ago, Rivertown Rider said:

I haven't noticed Time Traveler or Copperhead Strike tightening up.  The worst restraints as far as tightening are the B&M vest restraints.

I haven't ridden any of the recent Intamins.  The youngest of the Intamins I have ridden was Skyrush.

on a couple of my rides on time traveler there was a couple times the way we were turned that it caused enough force to constrict the lap bar down, it is rare.  Depends on how forceful the ride is.

[FUN&ONLY!]

2 hours ago, coaster sally said:

I am not allowed to say the name of the manufacturer but the new generations restraints that started with Taron are regarded as being better.  Macks tighten up, granted not as bad as skyrush restraints, but those are the first generation.

I would be so happy with an Intamin Blitz coaster like Maverick at Kings Island to replace Vortex, but I will only believe that Cedar Fair is willing to work with Intamin again when I see it.

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

My take on a Mack multi launch on the Rivertown side:

 

[IndyGuy4KI]

4 hours ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

My take on a Mack multi launch on the Rivertown side:

 

That is almost exactly how I see a new coaster sitting on that plot of land.

[FUN&ONLY!]

4 hours ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

My take on a Mack multi launch on the Rivertown side:

 

That color scheme looks exactly like Copperhead Strike. I really like the color scheme, though, and if the ride is going into Rivertown, it fits great! Would the entrance to this ride be near The Beast?

[SonofBaconator]

9 minutes ago, IndyGuy4KI said:

That is almost exactly how I see a new coaster sitting on that plot of land.

I am not opposing a Mack, I've mentioned numerous times how awesome Helix looks, but would people notice two launched coasters next to each other or would that even matter?

As long as its reliable and has multiple inversions, I'm all for one; maybe with orange track and blue supports though.

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

1 minute ago, FUN&ONLY! said:

That color scheme looks exactly like Copperhead Strike. I really like the color scheme, though, and if the ride is going into Rivertown, it fits great! Would the entrance to this ride be near The Beast?

The idea for the entrance is it would be inside the current arcade building. They would keep some of the arcade games in there, but have space in there for overflow queue. They would also have a green screen photo similar to Orion's entrance in there. The main queue would be a long enclosed tunnel (the brown tunnel that goes underneath the jojo roll and snakes up to the station). Basically the feel of the queue would be an old abandoned hidden mineshaft. 

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

1 hour ago, SonofBaconator said:

but would people notice two launched coasters next to each other or would that even matter?

I don't think the GP would care that much. I don't think I have heard much or any about there being 3 suspended coasters right by each other (Banshee, Invertigo, and The Bat). I think a Mack launch would serve as a good in between launch coaster between BLSC and FOF. It'd be more intimidating that BLSC, but a little less powerful launch than FOF. However, would probably be better than FOF for the GP at least. It would likely have a height requirement of 52" like Copperhead so it would be in between BLSC and FOF in height requirements. It would also be one of those things where when a kid hits 52", they can get introduced to inversions with Banshee and this Mack launch since we no longer have a coaster with inversions with a 48" height requirement. 

[SonofBaconator]

20 minutes ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

I don't think I have heard much or any about there being 3 suspended coasters right by each other (Banshee, Invertigo, and The Bat).

I never gave that a thought

[FUN&ONLY!]

So the big question when it comes to a Vortex replacement is when it will happen. In Cedar Fair’s conference call yesterday, they said they want to go back to investing 9% to 10% of revenues back to what they wanted to invest before the pandemic, but they can only do so when their financial situation improves. They also said that for 2022 additions and beyond, they will only activate capital projects as the situation improves. It is also important to note that Cedar Fair is not currently committed to any future capital projects that have not been announced. For any projects that are already in development, Cedar Fair has no binding commitments to go through with these plans.

With this, I think that the investments Kings Island gets next year for its 50th anniversary are somewhat dependent on what attendance looks like this summer. In regards to a new coaster, I don’t think Cedar Fair will have a normal year until 2022 at the earliest, and if Kings Island started planning a new coaster in 2022, we would likely see it open in 2024 with Kings Island usually starting the development of a new major coaster 2 years out. Realistically, I don’t know if Kings Island will start development of a new coaster until the year following or later, so I think an opening of 2025 or 2026 makes more sense. If I had to pick a year, I think we will see a Vortex replacement opening 2025 with development starting in 2023, but it really is too early to tell when Cedar Fair will be in a better financial position.

Quote

“At year-end, we were current on our payables for all active capital projects, and we had no material long-term commitments for new attractions.”

Quote

“Being in that position provides us maximum flexibility to tailor our 2021 and 2022 capital programs based on the speed of the recovery and our outlook around liquidity.”

Quote

“As we reopen parks and get back to our normal operations, we will be in a better position to make decisions on what our capital investments over the second half of 2021 will look like, as well as our outlook and timing for returning yearly capital investments back to our targeted investment range of 9% to 10% of revenues.”

https://www.fool.com/earnings/call-transcripts/2021/02/17/cedar-fair-fun-q4-2020-earnings-call-transcript/

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

I think people should keep in mind that our next coaster doesn't necessarily have to go in that plot. I think it's very likely we'll see another coaster removed before our next opens and if KI and CF think it can be a better roi putting it there instead of The Vortex plot, they'll likely put it there instead. If they replace Vortex with a coaster that'd mean the last 3 coasters added to KI were in the back of the park. I think it may help disperse crowds a bit if they put another coaster at the front of the park since the back of the park is already packed with coasters. The last coaster added to the front was in 2014 with Banshee.

[FUN&ONLY!]

49 minutes ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

I think people should keep in mind that our next coaster doesn't necessarily have to go in that plot. I think it's very likely we'll see another coaster removed before our next opens and if KI and CF think it can be a better roi putting it there instead of The Vortex plot, they'll likely put it there instead. If they replace Vortex with a coaster that'd mean the last 3 coasters added to KI were in the back of the park. I think it may help disperse crowds a bit if they put another coaster at the front of the park since the back of the park is already packed with coasters. The last coaster added to the front was in 2014 with Banshee.

I wouldn’t say Mystic Timbers is in the back of the Kings Island, but I do think The Vortex void needs to be filled. I also really hope another coaster is not removed before Vortex is replaced because that would leave a bad impression on a lot of fans. I could see a new coaster announced to leave right after a new coaster is announced similar to what happened with Orion and Vortex.

[BeeastFarmer]

Mystic Timbers and Orion are  in the middle of the park, not the back of the park.

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

Some good news to those hoping a new ride will eventually replace Vortex: I just started reading my most recent ACE magazine that we get like every month or so and they have a section talking about Orion and they took a little bit to talk about Vortex and they seemed to have asked Mike Koontz about the future of the land and instead of him giving the standard "we have no plans for the area" he shed some light and sorta promised that it'll eventually be home to a new ride someday. However, I'd take this with a grain of salt and not expect anything new there until at least 2024:

 

And btw if you are an ACE member and haven't read the magazine yet, I'd recommend reading the section about Orion. It has some very interesting stuff in there about the development of Orion and how it came about and why they went with what they did. Spoiler Alert: Millennium Force had nothing to do with why they didn't go all out with Orion. 

[FUN&ONLY!]

3 hours ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

Some good news to those hoping a new ride will eventually replace Vortex: I just started reading my most recent ACE magazine that we get like every month or so and they have a section talking about Orion and they took a little bit to talk about Vortex and they seemed to have asked Mike Koontz about the future of the land and instead of him giving the standard "we have no plans for the area" he shed some light and sorta promised that it'll eventually be home to a new ride someday. However, I'd take this with a grain of salt and not expect anything new there until at least 2024:

 

And btw if you are an ACE member and haven't read the magazine yet, I'd recommend reading the section about Orion. It has some very interesting stuff in there about the development of Orion and how it came about and why they went with what they did. Spoiler Alert: Millennium Force had nothing to do with why they didn't go all out with Orion. 

I remember when Mike Koontz flat out told the crowd at Coasterstock 2018 that he put in a request with Cedar Fair for Kings Island to build a giga coaster. Anyways, it is nice to see that the park has not abandoned Vortex’s plot of land and that they are still looking into a replacement someday.

Edit: At the top of the page I am curious about what success paved the way for Orion. Was the article talking about Mystic Timbers?

[Snowball]

4 hours ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

And btw if you are an ACE member and haven't read the magazine yet, I'd recommend reading the section about Orion.

I’ll have to dig mine out from wherever it is. I never read them lol

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

1 hour ago, FUN&ONLY! said:

Edit: At the top of the page I am curious about what success paved the way for Orion. Was the article talking about Mystic Timbers?

It was actually talking about Vortex! It said that the success of Vortex helped pave the way for Orion

[FUN&ONLY!]

3 minutes ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

It was actually talking about Vortex! It said that the success of Vortex helped pave the way for Orion

That is interesting. Maybe the success of Orion will pave the way for Vortex’s successor.

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

Here's an idea on how a queue could work if they were to put a new coaster station where Vortex's station was. Yes, it's an RMC and the theme is connected between both Coney and Rivertown. It would be themed to a shipping and containment facility that ships things between Fort Coney (Coney Mall) and Rivertown. The facility would actually be named Outpost 5 as a nod to SOB. Action Theater would remain to be used as a storage/storm shelter building. 

 

[IndyGuy4KI]

On 4/2/2021 at 4:31 PM, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

Here's an idea on how a queue could work if they were to put a new coaster station where Vortex's station was. Yes, it's an RMC and the theme is connected between both Coney and Rivertown. It would be themed to a shipping and containment facility that ships things between Fort Coney (Coney Mall) and Rivertown. The facility would actually be named Outpost 5 as a nod to SOB. Action Theater would remain to be used as a storage/storm shelter building. 

 

That is very clever using that space for queueing. I like it 

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

Ik this isn't the most realistic, but this is my "dream" Vortex replacement. A ground up RMC topper track that interacts with The Beast. Basically you give RMC The Vortex plot and the land around The Beast and let them go at it (not touching The Beast, but interact with it). But still leave enough trees to keep The Beast secluded, but maybe give Beast a near miss element or two with this ride. In the concept below, it features a cutback going overtop the bottom of the second hill of Beast. The coaster would also feature lots of RMC ejector airtime.