Could KI be getting a Floorless next?

[SonofBaconator]

I wonder how this pandemic is affecting their next coaster plans. Whatever they decide to add they're obviously not going to spend Orion money on it. I think the lower $20 million range would be the maximum they'd be willing to dish out. That being said they'll also want something safe and reliable since downtime will not help the ROI. A floorless would be the safest option IMO but I'm not in charge. Considering the cost of steel has risen I don't know what's the new normal when it comes to building a coaster so even a B&M floorless might be a tall order coming out of a pandemic.

There was a 4 year gap between Fury 325 and Copperhead Strike, a 7 year gap between Leviathan ane Yukon Striker (2 year gap between Leviathan and Wonder Mountain's Guardian), and an 8 year gap between I-305 and Twisted Timbers. We shouldn't expect a coaster until at least 2023 but 2024 seems more realistic as the minimum.

 

[flightoffear1996]

I am really thinking a dive coaster.  The dive machines seem to be real crowd pleasers.

[SonofBaconator]

27 minutes ago, flightoffear1996 said:

I am really thinking a dive coaster.  The dive machines seem to be real crowd pleasers.

Would it surpass Valravn or Yukon in some way or would it be closer to Sheikra or Griffon?

[flightoffear1996]

I dont see a need to break records.  200ft or 250ft is all the same in the eyes of the GP.  Still massive and intimidating.  Just looking at things from the business perspective.  

[SonofBaconator]

17 minutes ago, flightoffear1996 said:

I dont see a need to break records.  200ft or 250ft is all the same in the eyes of the GP.  Still massive and intimidating.  Just looking at things from the business perspective.  

If that's the case I'd want something like Valkyria. I don't care if it hits 200ft if it has more than 4 inversions and has good pacing

 

[flightoffear1996]

Something like that I think would fit the bill.  I really enjoyed Griffon at BG.  I know B&M dives get alot of hate but I think they are fun coasters.

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

I'd be very disappointed if they built a dive coaster. I don't think we need another B&M. However, a floorless or even a flyer would be the best B&M options imo.

[SonofBaconator]

On 11/29/2020 at 10:44 PM, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

I'd be very disappointed if they built a dive coaster. I don't think we need another B&M. However, a floorless or even a flyer would be the best B&M options imo.

I watched El Toro Ryan's video on Superman Ultimate Flight and it made me rethink my desire for a B&M flyer. I don't know if they have improved their technique but they seem to be the most maintenance heavy designs B&M has to offer.

[Rivertown Rider]

^ If we were to get another B&M, a flyer would be near the bottom of my preferences.  I've ridden Superman at Great America, Great Adventure, and Georgia and I'm pretty sure each of them were down for at least part of the day I was there.  I actually preferred Firehawk to it.  Superman was better than Nighthawk though.

My preference of B&M models we don't have:

1. Floorless

2. Wing

3. Sit-down

4. Dive

5. Flyer

6. Stand-up

[Tr0y]

I was disappointed when our Giga was going to be a B&M, I was hoping for a Intamin Giga or the worlds first Mack Giga. Mainly because I believe their are better manufactures out there to produce such ride. Not that I wouldn’t want a B&M coaster, I really do like the idea of a Wing Coaster in a future Area-72 expansion. I also would love to see a B&M floorless similar to Dominator taking up Vortex’s plot, seems only fitting. IMO.

[tuxedoman52]

When I visited Six Flags Over Georgia last Friday, Superman went down three separate times during my visit, including while I was on the ride in the station. I train must've misaligned when it arrived in the station, because the locking pins that keep the train in the flying position while in motion wouldn't engage. It's not very comfortable being in the flying position for 10 minutes waiting for maintenance to arrive.

[SonofBaconator]

I used to want a B&M flyer until I realized how complicated they are. I think there's a reason why there's been 8 made (11 total but 4 are clones). If someone gets one they'll have to anticipate downtime which is what most parks try to avoid. 

In my opinion, flyers aren't too different from inverts. At least Vekoma flyers have riders starting off above the track.

[IndyGuy4KI]

49 minutes ago, SonofBaconator said:

I used to want a B&M flyer until I realized how complicated they are. I think there's a reason why there's been 8 made (11 total but 4 are clones). If someone gets one they'll have to anticipate downtime which is what most parks try to avoid. 

In my opinion, flyers aren't too different from inverts. At least Vekoma flyers have riders starting off above the track.

I really enjoyed Great America's. I would love to have a B&M flyer. Although, I think we need a break from B&M for the next coaster.

This would give us a B&M that CP does not.

[SonofBaconator]

46 minutes ago, IndyGuy4KI said:

I really enjoyed Great America's. I would love to have a B&M flyer. Although, I think we need a break from B&M for the next coaster.

This would give us a B&M that CP does not.

I still wouldn't count out the idea of a filler coaster e.g. a Sky Rocket II like Tempesto or Tigris to hold people over until something larger arrives. Yes enthusiasts don't care for them as much as regular guests do but they're compact, intense, and don't cost as much. 

[coaster sally]

14 hours ago, SonofBaconator said:

I still wouldn't count out the idea of a filler coaster e.g. a Sky Rocket II like Tempesto or Tigris to hold people over until something larger arrives. Yes enthusiasts don't care for them as much as regular guests do but they're compact, intense, and don't cost as much. 

You speak alot about capacity in past posts.  Capacity is poor on these rides.  

[Sixflags82]

I loved Tatsu and Riddlers Revenge at Magic Mountain so I want us to get something like them

My order of the B&M models that we don't have is 

1)Flyer

2)Stand-Up (One like Riddler with large, intense inversions) 

3) Floorless (The only floorless coasters that I have ridden are Rougaroo, and Scream so I dont have the best option of them) 

4) Sit-Down

5) Dive

6) Wing (The only experience that I have with a wing coaster is an early morning ride on GateKeeper which I found super slow and boring)

 

[DiamondbackFan]

15 hours ago, SonofBaconator said:

I still wouldn't count out the idea of a filler coaster e.g. a Sky Rocket II like Tempesto or Tigris to hold people over until something larger arrives. Yes enthusiasts don't care for them as much as regular guests do but they're compact, intense, and don't cost as much. 

It will be interesting to see how the 4D Free Spin turns out at Kings Dominion and if Cedar Fair buys more of them.

[Sixflags82]

1 minute ago, DiamondbackFan said:

It will be interesting to see how the 4D Free Spin turns out at Kings Dominion and if Cedar Fair buys more of them.

if the KD one goes well I could see them adding them to a lot of the parks especially while they are recovering from the pandemic

[BeeastFarmer]

I'd love to have a B&M flyer at KI.  I have only ridden one, at SF Great Advencha, but the loop was like nothing I have ever experienced before or after.  Unfortunately, Tatsu was down for winter maintenance when I went to SFMM a few years ago.

I think the risk of downtime would be worth the the reward of the coaster.  And B&M downtime seems much more "fixable" than Intamin downtime.

[tuxedoman52]

A dual-station with 3 trains wouldn't be awful with capacity. Does anyone know how the newer B&M flyers are on reliability? I know the Superman clones leave something to be desired.

[SonofBaconator]

4 hours ago, coaster sally said:

You speak alot about capacity in past posts.  Capacity is poor on these rides.  

I do, but look at other high attendance parks that have them: BGT, BGW immediately come to mind. They do make a model that features a transfer track allowing two stations; make them hold 3 car trains and the capacity would improve significantly. 

I know SRIIs have very poor capacity but I was thinking more along the lines of just adding a coaster. If there's a higher capacity filler coaster that fits in a compact plot of land I'm all for it.

[coaster sally]

22 minutes ago, SonofBaconator said:

I do, but look at other high attendance parks that have them: BGT, BGW immediately come to mind. They do make a model that features a transfer track allowing two stations; make them hold 3 car trains and the capacity would improve significantly. 

I know SRIIs have very poor capacity but I was thinking more along the lines of just adding a coaster. If there's a higher capacity filler coaster that fits in a compact plot of land I'm all for it.

They are good rides for what they are.  I would rather have a raptor with 3 trains and 12 passenger trains than a skyrocket 2 with a sliding station.  The sliding station may get you to 700 PPH.  Make that a hot racer with lap bars only

[gforce1994]

They’ll be getting a floorless dive machine. The park needs to fill in The Vortex spot. The site of Vortex is an area where the soil strength is much larger than that of Action Zone and Planet Snoopy. The only reason why rides like Banshee and Drop Tower could be installed was due to extensive foundation and work with concrete piers. It’s an engineering marvel.

I think the park will invest in what is the largest possible ride that could be installed in that area. The stronger soil would significantly cut down the work needed for the ride’s piers and therefore reduce the overall cost. Furthermore, with the B&M track being manufactured close to the park, it would cut down a cost that would be larger if it was another park. Considering Valravn and Yukon were both built on land that interacted with water, KI could add a record breaking coaster with a lower price tag.

[tuxedoman52]

1 hour ago, gforce1994 said:

They’ll be getting a floorless dive machine.

What a statement! Glad we already know what we're getting in the future. So, magic 8 ball, when is this Dive Coaster arriving?

[gforce1994]

21 hours ago, tuxedoman52 said:

What a statement! Glad we already know what we're getting in the future. So, magic 8 ball, when is this Dive Coaster arriving?

Out of the entire park, the park is likely wanting to fill in the former Vortex site. Given what I said about the benefits of the site, there are reasons to indicate a dive coaster would be built there.

[flightoffear1996]

I feel like if they did add a dive a coaster they would still have alot of extra land to fill.  Whatever is installed I really hope it makes an impact like The Vortex did.  Vortex and Son of Beast were both beautiful coasters.

[Shawn Meyer]

^Son of Beast was a beautiful wooden roller coaster, but it was a chiropractor nightmare as far as what the human body can withstand. If they ever decide to build something on that scale, I hope Cedar Fair considers Gravity Group or GCI to come in and build it. Heck, I would be cool with them going with RMC topper track to make it look like an all out wooden roller coaster.

[gforce1994]

2 hours ago, Shawn Meyer said:

^Son of Beast was a beautiful wooden roller coaster, but it was a chiropractor nightmare as far as what the human body can withstand. If they ever decide to build something on that scale, I hope Cedar Fair considers Gravity Group or GCI to come in and build it. Heck, I would be cool with them going with RMC topper track to make it look like an all out wooden roller coaster.

It was going to be a much smoother ride, although last minute changes with the swapping out of the steel with composite tyre with a normal tyre caused massive issues in the end. 

[SonofBaconator]

If we're talking B&M:

Look at the land Vortex occupies. I'm not an expert but I think putting a 200ft dive next to a 200ft hyper would look odd. I think something in the range of 150-170ft would work in that space. If the park would get a "dive" I argue it wouldn't be a large one that we've become accustomed to in North America but rather something like a traditional inversion heavy coaster with a holding break and a 90° drop.

Going back to the wing model, while I think having one would be fun, it would be illogical for the park to get one. There are four wing coasters within a five hour radius of the area so it wouldn't make sense for us to get one. The best move would be for Cedar Fair to send one to Kings Dominion who would benefit from one way more than us.

A flyer is plausible but I think Cedar Point would want one and have it break several records. They are arguably the most maintenance heavy B&Ms so I think KI would actively try to avoid that.

Surf Coaster is another plausibility but the prototype coaster hasn't been built yet.

Then there's the floorless. Yes I refer back to this a lot and I understand the arguments against it. The main reason I keep bringing it up is because of another coaster we got in 2014- Banshee. Before Banshee when was the last inverted coaster built in North America? The answer is 2006 when Worlds of Fun debuted Patriot. Now when was the last floorless built in North America? The answer is 2005 with Hydra the Revenge at Dorney Park. So I do believe its possible KI could add one. Will they do it? I have no clue, however I wouldn't count out the possibility.

 

In terms of other manufacturers...

The main one aside from B&M is of course Mack. I have no problem with getting a Mack, no problem at all. Something like Helix would be great. I'm just more concerned with the price tag. Macks are just as expensive as B&M but their track is manufactured in Germany. At least with B&M Cedar Fair can spend more on the actual ride as opposed to shipping since their track comes from literally the next county.

Intamin is a no go given their past with CF. I'm sure they may reconsider in the future but that's a long shot for a company that has caused the chain significant issues.

The same can be said for RMC. The manufacturer is currently retracking parts of Lightening Rod at Dollywood and unfortunately Steel Vengeance and Twisted Timbers did not start of well during their opening seasons. I'm not sure how comfortable Cedar Fair would be working with them at the moment.

S&S can finally be another manufacturer we can throw in there since Kings Dominion is getting their 4d freespin. I have heard mixed reviews about Steel Curtain at Kennywood so I don't know if Cedar Fair would go to them so build a similar coaster.

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

Steel Curtain I heard has had a lot of issues. Like did it even open in 2020? If it did, I don't think it was for very long.