Canada's Wonderland's Next Coaster

[SonofBaconator]

Its crazy to think that Yukon Striker will be 2 years old this summer. Under Cedar Fair, Canada's Wonderland has gotten a decent amount of coasters and in a lot of ways can be seen as Cedar Fair's testing ground. They were the 1st park to feature a hyper coaster with staggered trains, they were the 1st park to feature a B&M giga, the first triotech coaster, and the 1st B&M dive coaster with a vertical loop. While some people have considered these additions underwhelming in comparison to other additions across the chain, its evident that Cedar Fair likes to try out new things at this park. With that being said, what's the next coaster to come to Canada's Wonderland?

I've heard a few ideas and speculations across the internet.

• A coaster in the back of the park over their White Water Canyon
• Something like a wing, flyer, or invert by B&M
• A modern GCI
• A launched coaster by Mack
• RMC either WB or MCMB (which would be really difficult given Canada's laws on contracting the own citizens for construction)

I would be fine with any of the options above. The unfortunate thing about this park is that outside of their B&Ms, they don't have a lot of good supporting coasters like you see at KI or CP. Time Warp, Flight Deck, Minebuster, Wild Beast, and The Bat are all candidates for the chopping block as far as I'm concerned. You could take down Flight Deck and Time Warp for a B&M invert. If they're not replacing an existing coaster I think a Mack multi-launch would be a good fit towards the back of the park. There have been some people arguing that if they put a coaster over White Water Canyon it would have to be tall since ON-400 (the highway) runs parallel to the back of the park. 

What're some of your thoughts?

[JimParker85]

Pre-pandemic I would say Mack multi launch for sure. Not sure about that anymore, given their reportedly high cost. 

[Rivertown Rider]

I agree that a Mack multilaunch would be the best option.  A GCI would also be great but I am not sure if they can build in Canada.

[BeeastFarmer]

They need a modern woodie most of all.

[Honorarius]

On 1/25/2021 at 1:46 PM, SonofBaconator said:

Its crazy to think that Yukon Striker will be 2 years old this summer. Under Cedar Fair, Canada's Wonderland has gotten a decent amount of coasters and in a lot of ways can be seen as Cedar Fair's testing ground. They were the 1st park to feature a hyper coaster with staggered trains, they were the 1st park to feature a B&M giga, the first triotech coaster, and the 1st B&M dive coaster with a vertical loop. While some people have considered these additions underwhelming in comparison to other additions across the chain, its evident that Cedar Fair likes to try out new things at this park. With that being said, what's the next coaster to come to Canada's Wonderland?

I've heard a few ideas and speculations across the internet.

• A coaster in the back of the park over their White Water Canyon
• Something like a wing, flyer, or invert by B&M
• A modern GCI
• A launched coaster by Mack
• RMC either WB or MCMB (which would be really difficult given Canada's laws on contracting the own citizens for construction)

I would be fine with any of the options above. The unfortunate thing about this park is that outside of their B&Ms, they don't have a lot of good supporting coasters like you see at KI or CP. Time Warp, Flight Deck, Minebuster, Wild Beast, and The Bat are all candidates for the chopping block as far as I'm concerned. You could take down Flight Deck and Time Warp for a B&M invert. If they're not replacing an existing coaster I think a Mack multi-launch would be a good fit towards the back of the park. There have been some people arguing that if they put a coaster over White Water Canyon it would have to be tall since ON-400 (the highway) runs parallel to the back of the park. 

What're some of your thoughts?

Whatever it is, it needs to have good capacity. The park just draws too many people. 

And 'underwhelming' has to be taken in context. This is a park where the best coaster Paramount added was either Italian Job or the SLC. And the best overall coaster in the park when CF bought it was their suspended.  And yet they still managed to pull huge numbers through the gate. 3 of those 4 additions you mentioned were great for the park.

[SonofBaconator]

6 hours ago, Honorarius said:

Whatever it is, it needs to have good capacity. The park just draws too many people. 

And 'underwhelming' has to be taken in context. This is a park where the best coaster Paramount added was either Italian Job or the SLC. And the best overall coaster in the park when CF bought it was their suspended.  And yet they still managed to pull huge numbers through the gate. 3 of those 4 additions you mentioned were great for the park.

Its Canada's premier park located near the country's most populated city so success is guaranteed for them. I think CWL's main move should be removing rides that are old and painful. I never hear good reviews about Time Warp and Flight Deck is the only other SLC in the chain next to Thunderhawk at Michigan's Adventure. An invert would be a perfect replacement.

Reliability is another thing. If CF could have RMC build for them in Canada I don't know that they would, considering the rumored rough start company has had with them back in 2018. Wildbeast and Minebuster opened with the park but I don't see a lot of nostalgia from park fans for either ride, but maybe I'm wrong.

I honestly believe that if CF kept feeding them B&Ms, park goers wouldn't bat an eye. Getting reliable people eaters would justify the removal of older rides.

[TombRaiderFTW]

On 1/29/2021 at 2:08 AM, SonofBaconator said:

Its Canada's premier park located near the country's most populated city so success is guaranteed for them.

I'd contest this a bit. Yes, it's one of two major chain parks in Canada, and of the two, I'm under the impression that Wonderland is considerably better. However, I think Cedar Fair recognizes that people have options for entertainment, and roller coasters don't have to be part of it. If I remember correctly, that was mentioned several times during the Ouimet years. I don't remember if this was explicitly said or if it was just implied, but the sentiment was, "We're not competing against other parks, we're competing against other things people do for fun." I could be misremembering this, but I feel like that idea was mentioned a lot in reference to Cedar Fair exploring other entertainment options (like cirque shows) and the (former?) Amusement Dark initiative.

I'd also add that I think considering parks too big/centrally located to fail is a dangerous fallacy for any park owner to believe. I'd argue that that kind of thinking is part of what enabled Six Flags to do what it did to Geauga Lake in the late 1990's and early 2000's. I think it's also part of what contributed to Hard Rock Park's failure, and I think it's part of the path that Mt. Olympus in Wisconsin Dells and Buffalo Bill's in Las Vegas have been heading down for some years now. Consider Dollywood as a counterexample: it COULD be just another shticky sideshow attraction like everything else in Pigeon Forge and coast by, but it's lovingly cared for and expanded by park management, even though gazillions of people travel through the area year after year. It's got longevity because of that care.

[SonofBaconator]

@TombRaiderFTW my argument is that Paramount neglected the park so people were fans of mediocrity. The park saw high attendance when their best coaster was an Arrow suspended coaster. They are trying to compete with other things people like to do for fun and I believe retiring their old rides for new ones would be a good step. 

I would like to see them incorporate animation and theming into their overall plan. I think Wonder Mountain's Guardian was a good attempt but I think it fell short imo

[MisterSG1]

The park has to open first, and despite their bold announcement of an opening date. The government has the ultimate say if it will open or not.

Based on previous attitudes of the government here, if Wonderland actually does open on time, I'll eat my underwear.

 

Honestly, I'm starting to think Cedar Fair is better off to just "cash out" and sell the land to condo developers, as government has openly made it hostile to do business here.

[SonofBaconator]

54 minutes ago, MisterSG1 said:

Honestly, I'm starting to think Cedar Fair is better off to just "cash out" and sell the land to condo developers, as government has openly made it hostile to do business here.

So Geauga Lake the place? Dibs on Yukon Striker

[grsupercity]

If I am remembering correctly I believe this place is third in revenue behind Cedar Point and knotts 

[JimParker85]

The 2019 season at Wonderland was a huge success for the park and CF. It's our home park and it was packed all year, up to and including the rollout of WinterFest, despite a lot of bad weather and no major rides open. The park had a huge hit on its hands with Yukon... Now a totally lost 2020 after 2 attempts to open that featured ride testing and hiring. Now 2021 is in doubt, Ontario has moved to their strictest lockdown measures so far. What a disaster for the highest attendance seasonal park in North America. Add in Knott's, and it's easy to be very worried about the future of the chain. The location of the chain's major parks, other than Ohio, was REALLY bad luck in this situation. 

[MisterSG1]

30 minutes ago, grsupercity said:

If I am remembering correctly I believe this place is third in revenue behind Cedar Point and knotts 

It doesn’t matter if Wonderland is #1 in the chain, or even #1 in the entire world, the fact of the matter is, when you’re closed you can’t make any revenue whatsoever and you’re worth as much as the worst rinky dink amusement parks out there.

Should Wonderland defy these orders, the police will be after extremely swiftly and lay huge fines and threaten to imprison all the associates, while they let typical crime run its course.

On top of that is completely botched vaccine rollout, and as I said, if Wonderland opens up by that bold date, I’ll eat my underwear.

[SonofBaconator]

I think if the park opens up in 2022 it'll get high attendance like it did pre-covid. Remember its not just Canada's Wonderland that's affected, several other entertainment venues have been affected. Look at the Toronto Blue Jays...

I wouldn't think Cedar Fair would give up on the park that easily, especially considering how they lead the chain in seasonal attendance. The best they can do is prep for 2022 and go from there.

[MisterSG1]

On 2/12/2021 at 12:28 AM, SonofBaconator said:

I think if the park opens up in 2022 it'll get high attendance like it did pre-covid. Remember its not just Canada's Wonderland that's affected, several other entertainment venues have been affected. Look at the Toronto Blue Jays...

The Toronto Blue Jays wanted to play in Toronto last year, heck the city and province of Ontario approved it but the feds said no mainly because they wanted to be difficult. A stadium that has a hotel literally attached to it should be a slam dunk, it can quarantine the players from the outside world.

Sometimes the best way you can describe Canada, is that it is difficult for the sake of being difficult. And let’s be honest, the closure of the US border has been a total dream for many Canadians. Nothing else in the history of Canada’s existence closed that border.

Also, the extreme restrictions basically spell out that Canada is hostile to business and is a liability considering how the federal government has acted towards this. Honestly, I’d be shocked if the Blue Jays or Raptors ever play a game in Toronto again.

[MDMC01]

12 hours ago, SonofBaconator said:

So Geauga Lake the place? Dibs on Yukon Striker

IF a closure like this were to happen, I would love to see some of their unique flats come to KI (Specifically, Sledge Hammer in Action Zone! Also, maybe Shockwave in Coney or Area 72.)

[Kenban]

18 hours ago, grsupercity said:

If I am remembering correctly I believe this place is third in revenue behind Cedar Point and knotts 

They are 4th, Kings Island is ahead of it as well, by a decent margin.  The weakness of the Canadian Dollar really hurts their revenue and profitability.  Even without the currency difference I am not sure if they would be 3rd in profits due to the lower operating costs at KI.

[MisterSG1]

Today in Wonderland News, they plan to use the lot as a mass vaccination site. The only problem is, they need to get a hold of the vaccine first.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/beta.ctvnews.ca/local/toronto/2021/2/14/1_5309026.html

[grsupercity]

Move Flight Deck to Valley Fair and give it new Vest trains. I picture Adventureland and Lost Island to really give Valleyfair trouble in the coming years. Demolish that abomination Time Warp. That would free up a nice amount of land for a good invert. 

[SonofBaconator]

On 2/17/2021 at 9:31 AM, grsupercity said:

Move Flight Deck to Valley Fair and give it new Vest trains. I picture Adventureland and Lost Island to really give Valleyfair trouble in the coming years.

I still think Cedar Fair should try and acquire Adventureland to bridge the gap between VF and WoF to sell more platinum passes. 

Relocating an SLC would make sense but would CF want to do that? I know if Kinzel was still in charge that would be a possibility but under current management I feel like Flight Deck would be scrapped or sold before they'd relocate it.

[WoodVengeance]

Apparently a survey was sent out to Canada's Wonderland season pass holders that asked for opinions regarding three potential coaster candidates. Two of which appear to be launched B&M wing coasters and the third being a wooden coaster similar to Zambezi Zinger.

 

[TombRaiderFTW]

Concept #1 definitely seems like it'd require Wonder Mountain's Guardian and possibly Vortex to be removed. I wonder if they're already being considered for removal...

[WoodVengeance]

3 minutes ago, TombRaiderFTW said:

Concept #1 definitely seems like it'd require Wonder Mountain's Guardian and possibly Vortex to be removed. I wonder if they're already being considered for removal...

I've heard that the park has had various issues with WMG since they put it in, I wouldn't be surprised if it gets removed even if they don't go with the blast coaster concept. I feel the concert concept is far more feasible since it'll probably go in the Kingswood Theater area, which I've heard is already being phased out of the park.

[FUN&ONLY!]

This survey is probably indicative of Canada’s Wonderland’s reported major 2025 addition. Carowinds sent out surveys about a potential new themed land that would include a mix of old and new rides in early 2020 that became Aeronautica Landing. While that area opened in 2023, it was reportedly supposed to open in 2021.

I have also heard similar surveys have been sent out to Kings Island guests about future special events and live entertainment.

[Kenban]

2 hours ago, WoodVengeance said:

I've heard that the park has had various issues with WMG since they put it in, I wouldn't be surprised if it gets removed even if they don't go with the blast coaster concept. I feel the concert concept is far more feasible since it'll probably go in the Kingswood Theater area, which I've heard is already being phased out of the park.

I thought the same thing at first about Kingswood.  I changed my mind though.  I bet it’s International Showplace.  That puts both the first and second concept possibilities at the same location.  I suspect the project itself or location has already been decided and I bet it’s the launched wing coaster.  The first art piece shows an invert but the description still says launched wing.  My gut says they know what they are building and where and want feedback on theming.

To add some fuel to this fire, there are reports that survey markers have show up in the area near the mountain including around International Showplace.

[WoodVengeance]

9 minutes ago, Kenban said:

I thought the same thing at first about Kingswood.  I changed my mind though.  I bet it’s International Showplace.  That puts both the first and second concept possibilities at the same location.  I suspect the project itself or location has already been decided and I bet it’s the launched wing coaster.  The first art piece shows an invert but the description still says launched wing.  My gut says they know what they are building and where and want feedback on theming.

To add some fuel to this fire, there are reports that survey markers have show up in the area near the mountain including around International Showplace.

Those reports are confirmed. A new video from Amusement Insiders states that survey markers were very recently placed near the international showplace and other areas surrounding the wonder mountain. It's seems likely that Canada's Wonderland is already going ahead with the first concept. It does make me concerned over what exactly Canada's Wonderland is going to remove in order to fit a wing coaster into the mountain. WMG is likely getting removed if the station for the new ride is going to be in the International Showplace area. I hope they find a way to keep Vortex though.

Spoiler

My heart goes out to anyone from Kings Dominion who still mourns over VTBC getting removed.

 

[SonofBaconator]

1 hour ago, FUN&ONLY! said:

I have also heard similar surveys have been sent out to Kings Island guests about future special events and live entertainment.

I couldn’t imagine how KI fans would react if they got the opportunity to vote on what coaster they could get.

[WoodVengeance]

2 hours ago, SonofBaconator said:

I couldn’t imagine how KI fans would react if they got the opportunity to vote on what coaster they could get.

Would vote hard for an exteme spinner.

[MisterSG1]

As of this writing, I’ve not received an email regarding a survey for this ride.

Kingswood Music Theatre is being slowly dismantled, parts of the roof have been removed and it’s definitely on its way out.

 

As for WMG, I’m not sure if that ride is a failure or not, I could easily say it was a bust in the long run mainly because of its huge advertising but lukewarm response from riders. Unlike what’s happened with Leviathan or Yukon Striker.

[SonofBaconator]

16 minutes ago, MisterSG1 said:

As for WMG, I’m not sure if that ride is a failure or not, I could easily say it was a bust in the long run mainly because of its huge advertising but lukewarm response from riders. Unlike what’s happened with Leviathan or Yukon Striker.

I think Canada’s Wonderland was meant to be the unofficial test park for Cedar Fair. You see the first B&M giga, the chain’s first TrioTech shooting coaster, I believe Yukon Striker was originally supposed to be the chain’s first B&M dive instead of Valravn (correct me if I’m wrong), not to mention the numerous flat rides, a cloneable kids’ launched coaster, and now potentially the chain’s first launched wing coaster. That’s not to say that other parks haven’t received first-of-it’s-kind stuff but Canada’s Wonderland seems to be churning out new ideas with every new addition.