KI Comms

[BoddaH1994]

9 hours ago, Tr0y said:

I don’t have any sources other than the posts and comments that have been made. As an outsider, it appears that the social media complaints about PR at KI had a role in Don “leaving” And the complaints outside of Chad’s personal twitter fell under Don’s responsibility per the KI bio.

per King’s Island:

"Don Helbig serves as Kings Island's area manager, digital marketing. An experienced storyteller, Don manages the content for the park's website, mobile app, blog, and social media. "

Chris obviously wasn’t the only person that complained but the fact that Chris posted a comment on here stating “Can’t say the same for Chad, who somehow remains” is telling.

Key word “somehow” in his statement. Now why would Chris use the word “somehow”? Sounds to me like he knew Don got fired. How would he know Don got fired unless he and some others were actively trying to get someone in trouble which later we come to find out the real target was Chad.

Either way debating me won’t fix the guilt, and name calling and getting Chad fired isn’t going to get Don his job back. If anything it makes those that are apart of groups such as the Attractions Group, Coaster Crew, FB Fan groups and or our beloved forum look like something Cedar Fair would not want to collaborate with.

 

 

In defending KI’s comms director, you got them convicted as the person who is responsible for what happened.

Nobody from any group including KIC needs to kiss Chad’s ass so they can go to media events or be on a press release list. If he removes people and groups from inclusion in media events and lists because something negative about the park or him was said, or blocks people on social media for asking basic questions, he’s the wrong guy for the job and KI and CF are the ultimate losers, not those groups and people.

[malem]

18 hours ago, Tr0y said:

Chris obviously wasn’t the only person that complained but the fact that Chris posted a comment on here stating “Can’t say the same for Chad, who somehow remains” is telling.

Key word “somehow” in his statement. Now why would Chris use the word “somehow”? Sounds to me like he knew Don got fired. How would he know Don got fired unless he and some others were actively trying to get someone in trouble which later we come to find out the real target was Chad.

While Chris has known Don for years and has given critical feedback as communications responsibilities changed, he wasn't involved with Don's departure from KI. He learned about it around the same time as everyone else did. It's not helpful to speculate on the circumstances of Don's departure; that's up to him to discuss.

Individuals are of course responsible for what they share, be it here or on any other platform. It's always prudent to keep criticism respectful, avoiding personal attacks when possible, regardless of how much you like or dislike a particular company or person. It's nice to see that some feedback to recent communications from KI has already been adopted.

[BoddaH1994]

1 hour ago, malem said:

He learned about it around the same time as everyone else did. It's not helpful to speculate on the circumstances of Don's departure; that's up to him to discuss.

 

Believe it or not, I found out AFTER everyone else… and he and I do podcasts EVERY WEEK!!! 

[Tr0y]

On 8/2/2023 at 8:34 AM, BoddaH1994 said:

In defending KI’s comms director, you got them convicted as the person who is responsible for what happened.

Nobody from any group including KIC needs to kiss Chad’s ass so they can go to media events or be on a press release list. If he removes people and groups from inclusion in media events and lists because something negative about the park or him was said, or blocks people on social media for asking basic questions, he’s the wrong guy for the job and KI and CF are the ultimate losers, not those groups and people.

You keep saying I’m defending the KI Comms Director. Since I’m such avid fan of his have you ever seen a post by me were I am praising him? I am only making an observation from what I have seen and by the comments that were made. Maybe Chris should elaborate on what he meant by “Can’t say the same for Chad, who for some reason remains” 

Constructive criticism is important however there are better ways to go about it than having an attitude, name calling and or mocking about it. Also let’s not act like there weren’t times “the park” ( Don ) asked for post to be removed and at times it was done. Isn’t that the same thing as kissing butt? You however do those things in order to keep relations. Why should it be any different with any other big wig representative with the park?

As far as people being blocked as Nemo pointed out in his post he was blocked by Kings Island PR for asking a “simple question” in 2019, which would have been by Don. Like I’ve stated before nobody is perfect, and some of the mistakes being pointed out currently is just nitpicking.

I was hoping for our 20th year as a forum we would be able to make amends and do something special with the park.

 

[Orion-XL200]

15 hours ago, BoddaH1994 said:

Believe it or not, I found out AFTER everyone else… and he and I do podcasts EVERY WEEK!!! 

SOMEHOW, that doesn't surprise me. 

[Orion-XL200]

 

Seems sloppy to not end a sentence with punctuation.

Did anyone ask about rainbows?

Edited August 8, 2023 by Orion-XL200
Did not mean to come off as homophobic, those who know me know that's definitely not who I am.

[Arastis]

N/A after edit

[SonofBaconator]

54 minutes ago, Orion-XL200 said:

 

Seems sloppy to not end a sentence with punctuation.

Did anyone ask about rainbows? Or is someone coming out of hiding?

This is stretching it extremely far to the point where it just comes off as a personal attack. A roller coaster that features water forms a rainbow, that’s a unique thing to post about. This just comes off as nitpicking and personal bias all round.

[Orion-XL200]

Edited, not how it was meant to come across. 

But for sure, sloppy at best with the lack of ending punctuation. 

[SonofBaconator]

I wish communication on certain things was better but anymore I’m starting to feel sorry for Chad- the guy can’t post anything without being attacked.

[SonofBaconator]

2 hours ago, Orion-XL200 said:

 

Seems sloppy to not end a sentence with punctuation.

Also, it ends in a hashtag… you don’t punctuate that. Social media grammar is a different beast altogether

[jzarley]

I’m making no commentary on the KI communications staff, because honestly I have no basis to form an opinion. But, when talking about park communications, do you know who I think does it *really* well? Holiday World!

The local CBS affiliate station in Orlando ran a story (with animation) about the new “Good Gravy” coaster yesterday morning—it ran for a couple of minutes and invoked commentary from the whole news team. (Granted, they were laughing a bit about the silliness, but still…). And, this was in Orlando—arguably the theme park capital of the world and the local media is talking about a new coaster at a little park in Indiana!

That little park and the people that run it have always impressed the hell out of me! :-)

[BoddaH1994]

46 minutes ago, jzarley said:

I’m making no commentary on the KI communications staff, because honestly I have no basis to form an opinion. But, when talking about park communications, do you know who I think does it *really* well? Holiday World!

The local CBS affiliate station in Orlando ran a story (with animation) about the new “Good Gravy” coaster yesterday morning—it ran for a couple of minutes and invoked commentary from the whole news team. (Granted, they were laughing a bit about the silliness, but still…). And, this was in Orlando—arguably the theme park capital of the world and the local media is talking about a new coaster at a little park in Indiana!

That little park and the people that run it have always impressed the hell out of me! :-)

*IF* the Camp Snoopy rumors are true then we will soon see if the story gets out of the Cincinnati market.. and this is for at least a similarly sized project, perhaps much larger. 

And no, I’m not talking about affiliate articles. Those don’t count because they’re just a copy/paste to fill space if it’s needed on the web sites. 

Getting good, meaningful coverage way out of market comes down to your ability to tell stories. Holiday World can do this. 

[Orion-XL200]

31 minutes ago, jzarley said:

I’m making no commentary on the KI communications staff, because honestly I have no basis to form an opinion. But, when talking about park communications, do you know who I think does it *really* well? Holiday World!

The local CBS affiliate station in Orlando ran a story (with animation) about the new “Good Gravy” coaster yesterday morning—it ran for a couple of minutes and invoked commentary from the whole news team. (Granted, they were laughing a bit about the silliness, but still…). And, this was in Orlando—arguably the theme park capital of the world and the local media is talking about a new coaster at a little park in Indiana!

That little park and the people that run it have always impressed the hell out of me! :-)

That's awesome! KI used to get almost nationwide coverage and it was great! 

[BoddaH1994]

18 minutes ago, Orion-XL200 said:

That's awesome! KI used to get almost nationwide coverage and it was great! 

Actually, beyond nation-wide. They used to get coverage in other countries. Now we high five them if they get coverage in other counties. 

[Orion-XL200]

16 minutes ago, BoddaH1994 said:

Actually, beyond nation-wide. They used to get coverage in other countries. Now we high five them if they get coverage in other counties. 

True....maybe not a high five but a thumbs up?

 

[DispatchMaster]

How much revenue will Holiday World realize as a result of a few minutes of banter on CBS Orlando?

[standbyme]

1 hour ago, DispatchMaster said:

How much revenue will Holiday World realize as a result of a few minutes of banter on CBS Orlando?

I once heard banter about Universal Studios on TV here in Illinois and drove to Orlando to see it.  

[BoddaH1994]

1 hour ago, DispatchMaster said:

How much revenue will Holiday World realize as a result of a few minutes of banter on CBS Orlando?

Lots. Obviously one spot on one show at one time doesn’t make a big difference, but general awareness through things like that are huge revenue and attendance drivers. This is the sort of thing the parks strive for, and is a major barometer of success. Announcing new capitol (or any PR stunt) and only getting Cincinnati, Dayton, etc is a layup story. Any first year intern can do that. Having meaningful coverage in Chicago, LA, Orlando, London, etc is reaching people that you wouldn’t normally reach and truly is where a PR expert shines.
 

Kings Island over the years has had PR experts who excelled at getting coverage outside the local market which helped increase attendance and revenue. Those years aren’t now. 

[DispatchMaster]

Do you have anything to support that claim? Because as far as I'm aware, via interviews, memoirs, etc., revenue for regional parks is almost entirely from the local region, with anything outside of that being a rounding error at best.

[BoddaH1994]

12 minutes ago, DispatchMaster said:

Do you have anything to support that claim? Because as far as I'm aware, via interviews, memoirs, etc., revenue for regional parks is almost entirely from the local region, with anything outside of that being a rounding error at best.

Yes. 

Ask any credible PR person who has ever spent 5 minutes in the role, except for Mr Selfie at KI. 

Getting stories locally to a bunch of people that already have season passes and/or will be targeted by advertising is good, but not the “fresh meat” that the PR needs to reach.

I’ve worked in countless PR projects and one of the things that is always reported back to the sponsor is the dollar value of revenue from PR campaigns. The share from the stories in local markets is lower and it increases greatly as you travel outside of the market. This is far more true for a regional park than it is for something like an FEC.

None of this stuff is super secret or anything. It’s all widely accepted across the PR field. It is proven time and time again. 

[BeeastFarmer]

29 minutes ago, DispatchMaster said:

Do you have anything to support that claim? Because as far as I'm aware, via interviews, memoirs, etc., revenue for regional parks is almost entirely from the local region, with anything outside of that being a rounding error at best.

Have you heard of The Racer?  The Beast?  The Partridge Family? The Brady Bunch? Evel Kineval? His Son? Son of Beast? Banshee? 

Those were all PR campaigns that have had a huge impact on one regional park that echoes to this day. 

[Captain Nemo]

Ever since they got rid of the KI Enthusiast guy things just haven’t been the same.
[exuberant sigh]

[Tr0y]

30 minutes ago, Captain Nemo said:

Ever since they got rid of the KI Enthusiast guy things just haven’t been the same.
[exuberant sigh]

I agree, if attendance is up again next season, the Comms Dept has got to go. We don’t need longer lines. 

[IndyGuy4KI]

3 hours ago, Captain Nemo said:

Ever since they got rid of the KI Enthusiast guy things just haven’t been the same.
[exuberant sigh]

I had to pull out the external hard drive, but below is a picture when he was a guest at a Coasting for Kids event in 2012. 
 

KI Enthusiast Dude

 

[Orion-XL200]

 

[IndyGuy4KI]

On a more serious note. It has taken me a few weeks to make this post. It is hard when your personal feelings on a situation come into play as well.

I struggle with keeping this thread up. We want to be a positive and supportive fan site for the park. After all, that is a big reason this site even exists in the first place. That is even before some of us became members. That incudes myself. The admins have talked about this thread more than any other thread recently. We have to consider if the thread is of value for the forums. Since some of the criticism has been adopted by the park, it is of value and benefit not only in discussion, but seems to be having a positive impact for the park. 

When I think about the purpose of the forums, I think the following:  A place to hear others thoughts, options, and understand another persons perspective of the park. That does not stop at just being a visitor or pass holder. We are also discussing how Kings Island and other parks operate.  There is a lot of years of park experience and history on these forums and members of KIC.

We may not always agree with or understand a decision that is made by the park. The management of Kings Island (and probably corporate) have made their decision on who they want in their respective roles. Some members may see from the outside looking in that a decision is not the correct one. It is hard to watch seeing a possible bad move or decision hurt the park. lt's especially hard when we have such passion for the park, want to see it thrive and for some have even invested in FUN. 

In that regard, let's please keep the criticism respectful. Speaking from emotion alone usually ends up not being helpful to the thread or park. We also have to come at it from an intellectual perspective as well. Give us all something to think about in your post.

[DispatchMaster]

15 hours ago, BoddaH1994 said:

Ask any credible PR person

Can you share an example?

14 hours ago, BeeastFarmer said:

Those were all PR campaigns that have had a huge impact on one regional park that echoes to this day. 

By what metric have these campaigns "had a huge impact"?

Not trying to be argumentative, but these claims seem wildly vague.

What was the long term attendance and revenue boost KI enjoyed based on the campaign for Banshee, for example? CF is a public company, and their financials are therefore available. I know they don't always point to individual parks' results in quarterly and annual reports, but when there are exceptions - like gains due to a specific investment - they often do. Are there reports where they mention any modern (post-CF) era attraction's bottom line impact specifically from out-of-region visitors at KI?

Because that's the claim that's being made - that the park isn't doing a good enough job reaching these so-called lucrative distant guests. If it is such common knowledge that this claim is true, where is the supporting evidence?

[BoddaH1994]

1 hour ago, DispatchMaster said:

Can you share an example?

Happy to:

Tony Clark, Bill Mefford, Jeffrey Siebert, Lynsey Winters... again, really any credible PR person besides Selfie. I would encourage you to reach out if you are truly interested. Ask them about the importance of getting coverage outside of your park's backyard. 

1 hour ago, DispatchMaster said:

What was the long term attendance and revenue boost KI enjoyed based on the campaign for Banshee, for example? CF is a public company, and their financials are therefore available. I know they don't always point to individual parks' results in quarterly and annual reports, but when there are exceptions - like gains due to a specific investment - they often do. Are there reports where they mention any modern (post-CF) era attraction's bottom line impact specifically from out-of-region visitors at KI?

Because that's the claim that's being made - that the park isn't doing a good enough job reaching these so-called lucrative distant guests. If it is such common knowledge that this claim is true, where is the supporting evidence?

A lot of this is like asking me to prove 2+2=4. This is 101-level PR stuff. 

Typically speaking, the value of PR is calculated as a function of the price of ad buys in the market. A PR hit is like getting that for free, or at least at the fixed cost of your PR program. 

The measurement of success for this is, when there's a hit in an outside market, is the ticket sales coming from that market following the hit. I mentioned this in the other post, but this was a meaningful metric in PR projects for which I worked. PR-specific companies will track ticket sales as a result of these stories. 

You're right - they're a publicly traded GLP, so we don't have their specific numbers, so I can't exactly throw revenue amounts at you, but think of it this way: if they invest in a billboard on 275 and ticket sales go up in this area then those ticket are tied back to that advertisement, and rightfully so. So if you have 3 or 4 good hits on WGN in Chicago and ticket sales go up then they are attributed to the PR hits. 

If I had not worked in PR then I would totally see where you are coming from. Why would someone in St. Louis care about our kids area? Why would someone in LA care about Phantom Theatre Encore. Many don't, but these stuff reaches a lot of people. A few will. And a few people multiplied a well-crafted program makes a big difference. I'm not saying a million people, but it may be enough to decide whether your park is up or down from the previous year.

Most of what I learned about PR was from a guy named Bill Mefford. He was PR for KI in the 80's, VP Comms for Sydney's Wonderland (Australia), VP Comms for the grand opening of Universal Orlando, and VP Comms for Taft Broadcasting. He's an independent contractor now and took me under his wing for several years. I've been trying to find an able for him to be on the Attractions Group podcast, and I think we will do the subject of finding out-of-market PR opportunities, along with the value of doing this. He's not going to dump on another person or their work, but he will be able to add a lot more perspective on your question. Stay tuned. 

[DispatchMaster]

So, the short answer is "no, I can't provide evidence to support the claim". You claiming they have said as much isn't the same as showing examples of them saying this, and further, why would a person whose job it is to justify their job's value say anything that contradicts the argument that their job is valuable? It's like asking a police officer if their writing parking tickets has a positive effect on community safety and taking their word for it without asking for evidence to back up a self-serving claim.

So, again, where is some evidence to support the idea that out-of-market advertising has a substantial impact on revenue?

Someone else mentioned Banshee as an example of a "PR campaign that have had a huge impact", except CF attendance was down during Banshee's debut season...

Can you understand why I'm skeptical of this claim?