AlpenFury- New for 2025 at Canada's Wonderland

[WoodVengeance]

1 hour ago, johnjniehaus said:

Maybe I'm just stupid but what is the deal with spitting? Like what are we talking about? Are we talking about everyone coughing up phlegm and spitting it out? We talking people chewing tobacco and spitting? People spitting off the Eifel Tower type spitting? Or just spitting for the sake of spitting? I've never experienced that as an issue at a park before 

It became enough of an issue that park staff working at the Eiffel Tower's elevator have to explicitly say not to spit over the railing. Sometimes people do the strangest things for little to no reason, like how people throw their armbands and other belongings on roofs throughout the park.

[Tr0y]

12 minutes ago, WoodVengeance said:

It became enough of an issue that park staff working at the Eiffel Tower's elevator have to explicitly say not to spit over the railing. Sometimes people do the strangest things for little to no reason, like how people throw their armbands and other belongings on roofs throughout the park.

It’s called intrusive thoughts. Sometimes they win. 

[BeeastFarmer]

6 hours ago, WoodVengeance said:

It became enough of an issue that park staff working at the Eiffel Tower's elevator have to explicitly say not to spit over the railing. Sometimes people do the strangest things for little to no reason, like how people throw their armbands and other belongings on roofs throughout the park.

That script has been used on the tower for as long as I can remember, and Ive been going since Taft. 

[DispatchMaster]

On 8/8/2024 at 8:54 PM, Tr0y said:

In fairness, Intamin was the original manufacturer that pitched the TT2 idea. CF took that idea and out of spite gave the job to Zamperla. We see how well that’s working out. 

This is a pretty extraordinary claim, so what is your source?

Because, according to the park for this project specifically, and for every project basically ever, the park invites several companies to come with a ride concept that meets a certain set of criteria (family-friendly invert, water ride, record-breaking airtime coaster, etc.), and this sets of a discussion between the park and manufacturers, and eventually a contract is agreed upon with one of them.

And in the case of TT2, CF (again, according to CF themselves) wanted to see what could be done with the existing ride structure, and invited multiple companies to bid on their vision for the project, and to my recollection, CF never mentioned any of the other companies involved, probably because that would violate mutual NDAs that were signed at the onset of the project.

As for the implication that Intamin would have been a better choice, even if we ignore the awful history of their rides' performance and tendency to try and kill their passengers, there's not much reason to think they could have done any better. After all, how's Formula Rossa running these days? 

[Tr0y]

23 minutes ago, DispatchMaster said:

This is a pretty extraordinary claim, so what is your source?

Because, according to the park for this project specifically, and for every project basically ever, the park invites several companies to come with a ride concept that meets a certain set of criteria (family-friendly invert, water ride, record-breaking airtime coaster, etc.), and this sets of a discussion between the park and manufacturers, and eventually a contract is agreed upon with one of them.

And in the case of TT2, CF (again, according to CF themselves) wanted to see what could be done with the existing ride structure, and invited multiple companies to bid on their vision for the project, and to my recollection, CF never mentioned any of the other companies involved, probably because that would violate mutual NDAs that were signed at the onset of the project.

As for the implication that Intamin would have been a better choice, even if we ignore the awful history of their rides' performance and tendency to try and kill their passengers, there's not much reason to think they could have done any better. After all, how's Formula Rossa running these days? 

It was stated at Coastermania by Tony Clark.

The implication that Intamin would have been a better choice is because they were the original manufacturer. For example if you drive a Ford, you probably wouldn’t take it to Toyota to have work done to it. 

[DispatchMaster]

Absent an actual link or something, I am deeply skeptical of the claim that Intamin approached CF, because, as I said, that is simply not how they have ever approached projects in the past. And it's also not how Tony described the process with TT2 specifically, though I think it was during a Q&A on an Instagram Live or some such thing prior to the ride's opening.

As for the car analogy, any reputable mechanic can work on any car, regardless of the OEM, so the analogy falls apart. And again, that's without considering the poor relationship between CF and Intamin.

[johnjniehaus]

I get that Cedar Fair is apparently on rocky terms with Intamin and with RMC but I do question the decision to give Zamperla arguably the most important contract of the year. I questioned it the day they announced they were going with Zamperla. I think Zamperla is a good company and has built some good rides but they had no experience in this area at the time. I don't know if intamin was considered but instead of giving a project to a problematic manufacturer they decided to give it to a novice essentially. I thought last year before the ride ever opened, if this works, Zamperla is going to become one of the high demand manufacturers and if this doesn't work, CP and Zamperla are both going to get screwed. I am still holding out hope that all the issues will be resolved and the ride will reopen (probably next year at this rate) and all of these issues will be just a memory of the past, however, I think the entire situation sucks for both parties and the guests who of course wanted to ride this and possibly bought passes with the thought of riding TT2 this year. 

Hopefully AlpenFury and Rapterra both open on time and prove to be much more reliable attractions than TT2

[WoodVengeance]

40 minutes ago, johnjniehaus said:

Hopefully AlpenFury and Rapterra both open on time and prove to be much more reliable attractions than TT2

I think those rides should be fine as far as reliability is concerned. Unlike TT2 that uses completely new trains and other systems Zamperla hadn't used before, Rapterra and AlpenFury are both ride models that both manufacturers (B&M and Premier) had experience with before, and they aren't doing anything too crazy or different compared to similar rides like Thunderbird or Full Throttle.

[DispatchMaster]

1 hour ago, johnjniehaus said:

I don't know if intamin was considered but instead of giving a project to a problematic manufacturer they decided to give it to a novice essentially.

In other words, if it was between Intamin and Zamperla, it was a choice between a company that is known to produce unreliable and sometimes dangerous and lethal rides versus one that produces reliable rides on a smaller scale. Seems like an easy choice to me, even considering the massive failure of getting the ride running this season.

[johnjniehaus]

8 hours ago, DispatchMaster said:

In other words, if it was between Intamin and Zamperla, it was a choice between a company that is known to produce unreliable and sometimes dangerous and lethal rides versus one that produces reliable rides on a smaller scale.

I know that intamin pushed the limits and that their rides historically have had many issues sometimes leading to fatal and life altering disabilities. However, some incidents are due to park operator negligence and/or improper maintenance by the park. I understand why they declined to bring intamin back into the picture but I question why they went with a rookie manufacturer such as Zamperla who had no history of producing an attraction to this magnitude. It was a risk they decided to take and so far that risk has not paid off.

[DispatchMaster]

9 hours ago, johnjniehaus said:

I question why they went with a rookie manufacturer such as Zamperla who had no history of producing an attraction to this magnitude.

Aside from Intamin, who as you concede has a troubled history, who else in the industry has a history of producing attractions of this magnitude? And again, even Intamin's Formula Rossa has been SBNO for 7+ months with zero explanation as to why, so...

[johnjniehaus]

1 hour ago, DispatchMaster said:

Aside from Intamin, who as you concede has a troubled history, who else in the industry has a history of producing attractions of this magnitude? And again, even Intamin's Formula Rossa has been SBNO for 7+ months with zero explanation as to why, so...

As I look back to my original post about this topic, I have never once stated that intamin had a flawless history. I have always used words like problematic to describe them. So I don't know what you mean by "concede that they have a troubled history" as I have always acknowledged the fact they do have a history of producing rides that have had issues. 

Back to the question at hand, everyone knows that no manufacturer other than intamin typically builds coasters to this magnitude. My point is that Zamperla while having a reliable history has produced very small scale rollercoasters such as wild mouse models, motorbike coasters and the Volare. As I have said before I do not profess to know which manufacturers were considered (perhaps some of them refused to even touch the project) but a manufacturer such a B&M has experience building 300ft rollercoasters that hit 90+mph. B&M has some of the most reliable rides out there. Vekoma has come a very long way since the 80s and 90s when they built worse versions of all the Arrow products. Today they are building world class large scale thrill coasters. Maybe not 400ft and 120mph but they are building bigger more ambitious rides than Zamperla. Look at the new Vekoma coasters at the Disney parks and in Europe. Tell me that Vekoma isn't innovative and that they aren't producing high quality coasters. Even Premier Rides... Haven't they been building launch coasters for almost 30 years? Looking at AlpenFury it might not be 400ft tall or 120mph but it looks really solid. 

At the end of the day we can speculate if the situation would have been different had CP done this or that but that doesn't change the fact that Zamperla was the chosen manufacturer, the ride from all accounts was amazing based on reports I've heard from those lucky enough to ride it during media days and the first week and a half it was open to the public, and that there is some sort of undisclosed issue/design flaw that has resulted in it being closed since mid May. I do hope that everything is resolved and they are able to open the ride by or before opening day 2025. I don't want to see the situation get ugly between CP and Zamperla as sometimes a flawed ride leads to bad relationships and lawsuits... 

[DispatchMaster]

My point was only that, given the scale of the project, CP's choice was between Intamin and any number of other manufacturers, none of which have experience at this scale. As such, the choice was either risk another disaster with Intamin, or give another firm a go at it, which has the added benefit of increasing competition within the industry on large scale projects.

[Gordon Bombay]

TOGO, RMC, Intamin -- is there anyone else they don't like?