Browntggrr

One of the off-season months. Or one of the opening months. Or a cold month. Could be a warm month. Geez, I just don't know now...

What will I miss about Nick? Ummm.... I will miss the fact that I cannot enjoy Nick leaving twice. Hanna-Barbera Land was the best. But that is history, as is Nick. Bring on Snoopy and the gang!

Not to be a pain the butt, but how so? My point was that the involved kinds of Intamin rides seem to rely strongly on exposed cables that have the possibility to snap and injure the riders, which makes my intended statement more along the lines of, "Oh, there were some Ford SUVs and a similar Ford pickup that rolled over in average driving conditions; I don't feel confident in Ford cars now." It wouldn't be a matter of the SUV being known to flip over in an accident; it'd be a matter of the car doing exactly what it was intended to do and failing nonetheless, even after thorough owner inspection and repairs. That the car would be known to flip wouldn't reflect in how I would feel about SUVs- it would change how I would view Ford's engineering since a vaguely similar vehicle, a pickup, has been known to do the same thing. And, to me, this seems no different, though I'm not swearing off rides on TTD or something now; I just couldn't help but feel not quite as excited about Intamin's cable-using rides after taking in the incidents with a cable snapping. That's all I'm saying. (No offense towards Ford fans- your cars are just the victims of the example. ) The SFKK incident was directly caused by maintenance not performing preventative maintenance on their equipment. The fact that it happened on an Intamin ride had nothing to do with the actual accident. Now cables have snapped before on Intamin launched coasters. That is a serious issue, and one that needs to be addressed, but comparing both accidents to each other just because a cable snapped is apples and oranges. In one incident, a young girl lost her feet; in the other incidents, the riders received superficial injuries due to flying debris- and of course the one back injury, which, if you have ever been on a launched coaster that rolled back, is questionable at this point. The cable snapping on the launched coasters has happened not more than one time on each ride due to frequence on replacing the cables. KK incident had no riders, and it wasn't the cable that snapped, but the pull car became dislodged. The Excelerator incident sounds exactly like the TTD incident, which means that the cable will probably need to be changed more frequently. I am not discrediting the seriousness of the accident, and it does need to be addressed, but, generalizing cable incidents to every Intamin ride that has cables is unfair as well. Especially since we do not know the exact cause as of yet.

You can't compare the SFKK incident and Intamin launched coaster cables. That is like saying: "Oh, there was a Explorer that rolled over, I don't feel confident in any car now."

^ The Pirate Ride removal was not due to a CF park purchase. And I certainly would not consider these Dorney removals "heartless", but perhaps "cost effective": I can see why some may be upset with the removal of Cuddle-up/ Iceberg/ Meteorite, but that building only had emergency exit doors on a building that was around since 1945. Old Mill/ Journey to the Center of the Earth that was removed in 2001 was in a 74 year old building, unfortunately, nothing lasts forever.

Which dark rides has CF taken out?

I see what you're getting at, but let's not say CP as a park has "practically zero themeing." 2 of their 3 kids areas are pretty heavily themed (I'd say about as much as NU), and the 3rd has a lite (albeit 70's) castle themeing. Two of the major areas of the park are themed, and are both beautifully done (Frontier Town and Frontier Trail, with the trail being much better done than Rivertown IMO). The new games area is aesthetically very pleasing, and several of the new rides are themed fairly well. In fact, the themeing on Disaster Transport (the poster child of CF theme fail) has been worked on this season, and much of the original on ride themeing is back under lights and looking good. You are looking at my comment way too detailed. It was said, KI won a Golden Ticket for best kids area due to it's themeing. And I said, CP has not won the Golden Tickets for best park due to it's themeing- i.e. themeing has nothing to do with winning.

You mean actually PAY EXTRA to ride SoB? That is like going up to someone and saying: "I will pay you to kick me in the nuts."

Given your standards (and no, I don't have much faith in the award recognition)... CP has won best park 9 years in a row with practically zero themeing. I don't think this going to be an issue, but, what is wrong with parents explaining who Linus is? Given how much the Nick characters the kids see today, it very well could be a nice change of pace for kids and open their minds that there are more things than Nick.

Material has expense, but engineering the work is as great an expense.

So all the time, effort, and money already used hasn't been properly done? That's a bold statement. Do you think the execs were happy to throw away their money and have zero results? The issues with SoB have been there since day 1, and at this point, the ride has been SBNO more than running in it's lifetime. Name another ride that has gained such a reputation & caused so mant complaints/ injuries over (almost) 10 years- and still stands today. I'm sure that with all the money both Paramount and CF has poured into SoB since 2000, the ride could have been torn down already for less. It's not like either company did not try to save it. Think about all the retracking, new trains, loop removal and strengthening that has gone on. The ride has been re-engineered numerous times already. And no, removing parts of the ride & re-re-engineering it all over again is not the answer. Could they do it, sure, but why? It's not like SoB was that great of a ride to begin with. While coaster enthusiasts make up a very small percentage of the guests a park has, and coaster enthusiasts RARELY agree on anything, they agree that SoB is a failed ride. And why would CF even want/ think about making SoB longer than Beast? Hasn't SoB tainted The Beast "reputation" already? Not to mention, the extra land that it would use to make it longer probably already has plans. The story of the Ford Pinto is rather similar to that of SoB, bad engineering from day 1, yet it was still produced for 10 years.

I'm the same way. RCDB also uses approximate times, as there is no exact time for every train due to load/ unload times, weather factors etc. Perhaps a ride op could verify the amount of trains used as I have been to KI a few times this season and am fairly certain that 3 trains have been used.

joker's jinx at six flags america. in this picture you can see where the mid-course brake run would be if it was Flight of Fear (the part of track with the circle things around it) and you can see that there isn't a catwalk or any wiring for brakes. http://rcdb.com/544.htm?p=524 Joker's Jinx also uses 2 trains, whereas FoF uses 3 trains. Yes, I did use RCDB as a resource. And while their data may not be 100% accurate, it is the best source of facts that I can find. And for my own information; do you happen to know of another/ better resource?

^ Which FoF clone does not have a MCBR?

Nope, no clue. How about some clarification and details. A rides' popularity cannot be determined by how long the line is. Variables such as: crew dispatches, guests being familiar with the entering/ exiting of the ride- which will have an effect on the MCBR, maintenance, and compliments vs. complaints factor popularity much more than line length. FYI- Beast is 7359' long with a duration of 4:10. SoB is 7032' long with a duration of 2:20. You drew yourself the arguement, and obviously you don't understand why trims are necessary, or you wouldn't be so against them. Perhaps once you realize that it costs the park money for maintenance, look past your individual feelings about trims, and understand that not everyone wants to have shaken adult syndrome you can have a constructive conversation on how rides actually work. Rides are there for the majority, not the minority.

^^ Beast has always had trims. The new magnetic trims started in 2002 after the minor accident in 2001. Other numerous trim brake (beating dead horse) discussions: http://www.KICentral.com/forums/index.php?...=magnetic+trims http://www.KICentral.com/forums/index.php?...=magnetic+trims

I have no idea what this means. You can never determine a ride's popularity by how long the line is. There are too many variables that go into why a line is long. And even at that, comparing SoB's line to that of Beast is certainly comparing apples to oranges. SoB has 2 trains @ 24 ppl/ train. Beast has 3 trains @ 36 ppl/ train. Trim brakes are there for a reason. You may not like tham, or understand them, but just watch the CET video and observe what park employees said about Beast before the ride was slowed down.

You may feel different if you did ride it. And remember, if the park did put more time, effort, (and most importantly) money into SoB again, that would take away from other things or new things at the park. When it comes down to MS, the biggest problem is the bottom of the first drop tearing itself apart. How can they re-engineer the one element of the ride that (putting it into a simple term) makes it "go"?

I'm not too sure if I would call it a success, and if you really want to call it a success, it's not a ride I would boast about. And while you did bring up unique points, you can bring up points just like those with pretty much every park that has new rides.

^ I am hoping for better weather during the 2009 Halloween season so that my family can enjoy the parks more than we did this past summer (if you want to call it a summer). As far as the parks' plan in 2011, that is 20 months away. Let's get through fall of '09 first.

Wow. That's a tough read. I wish to thank you. You have confirmed my belief that just because a cartoon is on 24/7, does not make it better. Grab a book, and read. Get away from SpongeBob.

I can guarantee that the loop will not be returning. You don't re-engineer to remove a section, and then re-engineer again to remove another section and add original failed section. There is no sense in wasting more money on it.

You shouldn't take it personally, there is nothing personal about it. Some people don't like Beast. But when I was 6 in the summer of '79, Beast was king, and still is today. And the only coaster that comes close to it is MF. Now I have been on Voyage, El Toro and Raven, and Beast is still tops in my book. Take Terpy and I. I personally adore AC at BGE, and for him it's, meh. I also don't find Magnum that great of a ride. Good? Yes. Great? No. And for most, it's one of the best. How you feel about a ride is usually determined with that first ride you take on it. Seldom does my mind change after that initial ride.

Ravine Flyer II made the list from little Waldameer in Erie, PA. I can remember back in the 80's when the best ride Waldameer had was the Wacky Shack. Oh, how the times have changed.

Some other discussions: http://www.KICentral.com/forums/index.php?...ic=12615&hl