Beast cars

[BriTre]

The Beast is one of my favorite rides at Kings Island. Something I've always wonder was why they haven't made the cars more comfortable. I've learned how to sit in them to not be beat to death, riding in the front defiantly helps but that hard center separator is rough on the arms. Is this something that can't be done? The cars on Mystic Timbers are super comfy.

[SonODiamondback]

The cars themselves I don't have a problem with its the lap bars. I just there has to be a fix to this

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[Shaggy]

Of course eveyone know's I am, and always will be a Beast fan...

But, I am personally of the opinion that Beast needs it's trains replaced.  The existing trains are considered the "originals" but they have been chopped, altered, padded, divided, dissected, renovated, changed, updated, downgraded, upgraded, conformed, and manipulated to the point that they are not remotely the same trains it started with... I'd actually go as far to say that in reality on about 10% or less of the trains is still "original."

Just think about it... they were immediately altered after opening (interior hand-stitched tufted padding was taken out, the headlamp removed and replaced with the logo), then they were cut down from 4-benchers to 3 within a few years of operation, and in the subsequent 30 seasons had the buzz bars removed, headrests added, seat dividers extended, accessible strapping added, extra padding added, seat belts added, skids removed for fins etc etc etc.

I don't at all think it would be some horrible thing to replace the trains completely.  Frankly, a switch to a different type of train from the EXTREMELY dated PTC's would help re-invigorate the ride IMO - allowing for more rider comfort and also allowing for more guests to ride (let's face it... people are fat these days - so everything from cars, to airlines to movie theaters are having to address this.)  It would be nice if PTC had an updated version of the trains to offer.  But as far as I know, PTC continues to produce the same archaic trains they were making 100 years ago.  I understand they do a good business for those that want new trains identical to the older ones - but they have virtually NO other options as far as styling or articulation, just wooden boxes on wheels.  Heck - one of the main reasons The Beasts elements are so far apart is because the longer PTC trains couldn't articulate directional changes abruptly.  The only option PTC gives it's customers for tighter elements is shorter cars yet still non-articulating.

If The Beast changed trains, it would be a necessary advancement.  The originals, or AN original, could be kept for display.  

If I was given a magic wand, I'd probably wave it at The Beast and orchestrate a complete station, theme element and train overhaul. The water, mining Co, Beast warning sign, tc would all be updated/brought back.  And it would get a test seat - which it has needed desperately for decades.

Of course it's very easy for me to be a keyboard critic and think that it would be that easy - it would likely take at least a million dollars to make that happen  - alterations, permits, inspections, insurance adjustments etc etc etc.  And why buy the Mercedes if the Cadillac is working just fine?

No matter - I still love it ;-)

 

[medford]

What if they got GCI to come in and both retrack and reprofile parts of the layout along with providing their trains?  What if they mixed in some of the elements of Wicked Timbers or their many other rides into the long, straight stretchs of The Beast, the areas where trains that could articulate better could handle some wider swings and quick (minor) change of directions.

Sacrilegious or Stupendous?

[SonODiamondback]

I think if they were going to CGI The Beast they would have done that instead of building Timbers. If the out cry was to get to the point that a majority of people called for it they would. Switching trains to to the CGI trains would be a plus but not sure if they could make them as long as the PTC trains. The Beast is different because of its leangth and I'm not sure if KI would want to sacrifice the rides per hour. I'm sure it could be done but I'm no engineer.

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[Shaggy]

18 minutes ago, medford said:

What if they got GCI to come in and both retrack and reprofile parts of the layout along with providing their trains?  What if they mixed in some of the elements of Wicked Timbers or their many other rides into the long, straight stretchs of The Beast, the areas where trains that could articulate better could handle some wider swings and quick (minor) change of directions.

Sacrilegious or Stupendous?

Now that I am NOT in favor of.  Frankly, I think the layout needs to remain the same.  "The Beast" has entertained and thrilled millions upon millions upon millions of people for nearly 40 years.  To me, The Beast is the structure, and the way it brilliantly navigates it's terrain and woods.  You have to understand that The Beast represents a time when all engineering was done by hand - it's a stamp in time as to the talents, and genius of the men who designed and engineered it - Al Collins and Jeff Gramke.  I dont think such a change would be accepted by those countless people that love the ride - and I do mean COUNTLESS.  

Changing it's layout would be akin to re-painting the Mona Lisa.  Yeah - she might be lacking eyebrows and may have faded a bit with time - but think of the beauty and originality you'd lose if you updated her.

[SonofBaconator]

Cough cough cough

[TheRickster]

The Beast is one of the smoothest wooden coasters around that's older than like 8 years. I think it's fine. If they went with other PTC train setups it would just have even more invasive dividers like what they have at holiday world and on blue streak.

[BriTre]

Whenever I go thru the tunnels I wish they would add glowing eyes inside.

[Oldschool75]

I would be all for Millennium flyers on The Beast as long as they would work without modifying the track, but PTC did unveil an individual car train (PTC-360) a could of years ago at IAAPA. I'm not sure if anyone is using them.  I think an individual car train would relieve a ton of stress off the track and allow for faster speeds without the wear.  

 

 

[Yippee Skippee]

I agree that The Beast needs new trains. Last time I rode it my knees spent the entire ride hitting the front of the car. I personally don't feel the ride is overly rough like some people say, but being crammed in the car makes the ride not as fun. And a side note I don't like the fact that the restraints on Mystic Timbers are so restrictive. I have tried to ride it twice this year and couldn't ride, but I fit on Diamond Back. 

[fyrfyter]

New trains, fine. The only track changes should be retracking and replacing wood as needed. Nothing else needs to change.

If they want a revenge of The Beast, build another coaster.

[goettablitz]

New millennium flyers and loosen up the trims.

[Pez]

As long as The Beast pulls in the crowds they aren't going to invest the money to make major changes to it.  If it ain't broke ....  It is a bit of a ghost town over there during the day, and as John Oliver said of Jeb Bush's froyo, "it's fine."  But, it really comes alive at night and is something a lot of people have to do on their visits to Kings Island.  Not only would modifications cost some cash, but it would undoubtedly disappoint a lot of people. With that said, it seems a lot of advancements have been made to roller coaster cars over the years and if there is something that can be done to make it faster and/or smoother, I'm all for it.    

[BeeastFarmer]

I'm a bigger guy and have no real issues with the trains.  Not a whole lot of leg room, but very manageable.  However, I will let someone else in front of me if my ride is n train #2.  

[JCoaster25]

Worst part of the trains to me are those freaking shoulder dividers. They always manage to nail me in the ribs. I would be in favor of a new set of trains for the ride; probably just a new set of 3-bench PTCs like what Dorney got on Thunderhawk in 2016. Those look pretty slick with their low open front cars. Would be cool to not have headrests on Beast too.

[MaestroJr]

While I do like The Beast current trains, they aren't very comfy and they really don't need to be but the seat belts I'd say need to be redone. My leg always sticks out a bit so that it jams into the side of my seat. I love The Beast however and I think modifying anything but the trains and re-tracking would be a sin against roller coaster history. I personally would love new trains for The Beast though as it could enhance the riding experience. MaestroJr

[shadow9542]

I think all The Beast needs is a new train to be a 10/10, as it's currently at about a 9.5/10 for me because of how awkward the dividers in the middle are. If they can fix the trains, I think the ride would be almost perfect.

[gforce1994]

No, The Beast doesn't have the original train. This is the original train: 

[Xdog42]

The trains are just OK, but I think The Beast would benefit greatly if KI could replace these trains with the new Millennium Flyers. On The Beast smoothness, I can't complain. It might be a tad rough at times but for a ride that's almost 40 years old, it runs pretty smooth. I personally think it's smoother than Thunderhead at Dollywood.

[Shaggy]

51 minutes ago, gforce1994 said:

No, The Beast doesn't have the original train. This is the original train: 

It's the same train - however the train's decorations were severely altered after this pic was taken.  That pic is from IAAPA in 1978 - when they showed off the lead car.  At that point, there were 4 trains.  Prior to opening, the ride reduced to 3 trains and received a different "fire-themed" paint job and had the headlamp removed in favor of a logo (that would better represent the park in media coverage.)  After a few weeks of operation the tufted button upholstery was removed as well.  In subsequent seasons, the cars and chassis were cut down by the park to reduced them to 3-bench seats.  

The coaster still uses 3 of it's original trains - only SEVERELY altered.  The #4 spare was broken up to extend the 3, and eventually the #4 lead was given to Ruth Voss upon retirement.

[CoastersRZ]

And if you look at the set up of the queue lines and air gates, you can tell they were designed for the original four row trains.  That is why there is the one set of gates for a car that opens at a 45 and has yellow arrows on the station floor.

[tuxedoman52]

I thought that PTC did offer articulating trains now.

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[Oldschool75]

9 hours ago, tuxedoman52 said:

I thought that PTC did offer articulating trains now.

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On 8/21/2017 at 4:02 PM, Oldschool75 said:

I would be all for Millennium flyers on The Beast as long as they would work without modifying the track, but PTC did unveil an individual car train (PTC-360) a could of years ago at IAAPA. I'm not sure if anyone is using them.  I think an individual car train would relieve a ton of stress off the track and allow for faster speeds without the wear.  

 

 

They are called the PTC 360.  I don't know of any park that is using them and they are not on the company's site either. 

[Pagoda Gift Shop]

That's a great picture of the original train design.  Thanks for sharing.  I've never seen that before.  

I can deal with the loss of a lot of things (button upholstery, headlamp, 4 bench).  It's the addition of a seat divider and the orange ratcheting lap bar that are the negatives for me.  Has anyone ever asked Don if he could have done all those Racer rides if he were forced into the seat dividers and orange bars?

I love riding The Beast, but I don't usually get off the ride thinking, "that was a really comfortable seat."

 

[TombraiderTy]

On 8/22/2017 at 3:13 PM, Shaggy said:

It's the same train - however the train's decorations were severely altered after this pic was taken.  That pic is from IAAPA in 1978 - when they showed off the lead car.  At that point, there were 4 trains.  Prior to opening, the ride reduced to 3 trains and received a different "fire-themed" paint job and had the headlamp removed in favor of a logo (that would better represent the park in media coverage.)  After a few weeks of operation the tufted button upholstery was removed as well.  In subsequent seasons, the cars and chassis were cut down by the park to reduced them to 3-bench seats.  

The coaster still uses 3 of it's original trains - only SEVERELY altered.  The #4 spare was broken up to extend the 3, and eventually the #4 lead was given to Ruth Voss upon retirement.

The park has claimed that the fourth train was rotated among the other three for the first couple of seasons. A couple years ago PTC President Tom Rebbie commented on the rides' trains and shared some interesting information:

Quote

It is one of the best coaster cars I have had to build, they were 134 inches long with 4 seats on each car, 8 riders per car 5 cars per train. KI cut them down to 101 inches, 3 seaters 4 cars per trains. in early 80's. Still a great ride. Got to ride it before it opened to public and in the dark after hours, it was great, Love that ride, an the park.

 

Also, the cars were going to be pained in the style looks like you see on Firetrucks, Red with Gold Leaf and lantern on the lead car. When it was decided the coaster was to be called The Beast, the name did not match, so the lead car firest two seats strated out red it blended to orange then yellow then green, an so on to the end of the train. We only did primer on all the coaster cars, KI did the final painting at KI.

Someone also asked Tom why the trains were cut-down, to which he responded:

Quote

From what I was told, it was easier to work on them and they could order parts that interchange with The Racer.

 

[TheRickster]

But beast has 6 cars of 6 seats a piece...

[Shaggy]

20 hours ago, Pagoda Gift Shop said:

 

3 hours ago, TheRickster said:

But beast has 6 cars of 6 seats a piece...

Originally, The Beast had 4 trains... each train had 5 cars that had 4 rows holding 2 people each.  So each train originally held 40 people.

The 4th train never ran for the public... so when it opened, it opened with 3 trains of 5 cars with 4 rows of 2 people. Still holding 40 people.

The cars were then altered to 3-rows, and an extra car (taken from the unused 4th train) was added to each train.  Ever since the alteration, the coaster has operated with 3 trains that have 6 cars with 3 rows of 2 people - 36 people.

 

[TheRickster]

2 minutes ago, Shaggy said:

 

I guess something got edited that someone said, or I misread there post. It sounded like they were saying it currently only had 5 cars. At least from my recollection.

[silver2005]

I'd just be happy with new sets of PTC 2 bench trains for both Beast and Racer.  Sure there'd be a slight capacity dip (I would do 7 car trains for both, 4 for Racer and 3 for Beast), but I think they'd track slightly better than the 3 bench trains.