Get rid of one coaster- The Poll

[silver2005]

6-1 on Vortex is my sweet spot.  Evens out the OMG ejector air of 7-1 and the smoothness of 5-1.  

I do enjoy 1-1 as well, though.  Its got a nice breeze in the front with the way the air slides across the pointed fronts, even on warmer days.  The front seat around dusk is one of my favorite scenarios to ride it.  

[KI Master]

Vortex is horrible

[bjcolglazier]

On 2/14/2018 at 8:40 AM, Stoan said:

Who voted for Surf Dog? I will fight you!

 

I also voted Backlot Stunt Coaster though. It's capacity is horrid for how short of a ride it is. The only real enjoyable part is just after the helicopter. From what I hear rollbacks are more common then they should.

LOL. I voted for Surf Dog. I've got 3 kids, and we've only rode it 2-3 times over the past 6 years. We all ride Stunt Coaster though! My 10-year-old son loves it. It's his favorite. But we all enjoy it.

If you take all the Planet Snoopy rides out of the equation I would probably vote for Firehawk. I just don't like it at all.

[PKIVortex]

Vortex is horrible

I beg to differ, y'all just don't appreciate Vortex. Vortex was never B&M smooth, it was a different time back in 1987. It's funny the complaints didn't seem too happen with Vortex until the park got B&Ms. I love Arrow Coasters.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[JubJester]

1 hour ago, KI Master said:

Vortex is horrible

And....

Your reasoning?

[VortexBFForever]

@PKIVortex took the words out of my mouth! Not every coaster is glass smooth, but I think that is a good thing. A lot of wooden coasters (at least if they're not Mystic Timbers) are not totally smooth but a lot of people enjoy them. The Beast makes a great example of that. A coaster does not have to be totally rattle- or roughness-free to be a good ride (though they may not be as comfortable).

We all have our opinions. Vortex may not offer the smoothest ride, but it still has a solid spot in KI's lineup (and the hearts of many, including mine), has the historical significance AND a lot of people still enjoy it today (including myself). After all, it has withstood the test of time for 31 years and counting, whether you like it or not.

B&Ms definitely deserve their rave reviews. However, they would not have come to be if it weren't for the technological advancements and breakthroughs through the tireless efforts of Schwartzkopf, Arrow, Vekoma and numerous other manufacturers. Nowadays, many overlook the historical significance of coasters like Vortex and how they were state-of-the-art for their time. But that does not mean no one appreciates them anymore. I love Diamondback, but Vortex has my heart. <3

-BFF, a proud Arrow fan.

[MDMC01]

Well said, BFF. Some coasters can be rough around the edges and it can be a good thing (see Adventure Express and Rougarou).

[SonofBaconator]

Say Votex gets removed, then what? Will other coasters suddenly get rougher? Will Firehawk or Flight of Fear become painful? Like what @PKIVortex and @VortexBFForever said, B&M spoiled us rotten but that doesn't make Vortex any worse. IMO Vortex is the best Arrow Looper out there.

[Rivertown Rider]

I think Vortex still feels a nice niche at the park.  It is nice to look at and it is a great people eater.  While not the smoothest ride I would take it any day over something like Invertigo.  

As far as BLSC goes, I still really enjoy the ride but after riding Verbolten this summer I would love to see BLSC get a re-theme that fits in with the area a little better.

[SonofBaconator]

On 9/4/2018 at 10:37 PM, Rivertown Rider said:

As far as BLSC goes, I still really enjoy the ride but after riding Verbolten this summer I would love to see BLSC get a re-theme that fits in with the area a little better.

I said it before and I'll say it again: rebrand- remove the existing props theming, repaint the track and supports, and change the trains to fit a western/ antique theme.

http://www.themeparkreview.com/parks/p_345_3124_knotts_berry_farm_pony_express

[jcgoble3]

Standards and the definition of a "good" coaster evolve over time. Vortex may have been good when it opened and for quite some time since then, but over the past few years modern standards have overtaken it and its rough transitions are no longer acceptable to many people. IMO it stood the test of time for roughly 25ish years, but in the past few seasons it has begun to struggle to pass that test, if not outright fail it. I get that it is historically significant, but that in and of itself is not a reason to keep a coaster around forever despite being outdated. It's time to retire it for good.

[King Ding Dong]

People expect woodies to be rough and bang you up a bit, they don’t expect the same from steel.  I realize many still love old classics like Vortex and Corkscrew but one also has to consider the Guest experience of the general public that are not in the know about how painful and potentially best day ever enders these rides can be.

Vortex totaly ruined one of our trips and last weekend Corkscrew did the same to some friends of ours that despite being warned got on it anyway becuase it was the only coaster without a big line.  They were done after that and went back to the hotel to recover.  Thus not spending anymore money in the park.   

[Gannersdaddy]

3 hours ago, King Ding Dong said:

... becuase it was the only coaster without a big line.  

That usually tells a tale itself  

[kingsislandfan1972]

Huh why are so many people disliking Backlot Stunt Coaster? I’m surprised Adventure Express isn’t winning this poll....

[SonofBaconator]

I might have asked this before but could new trains ease some of the pain experienced on Vortex?

[VortexBFForever]

13 hours ago, SonofBaconator said:

...could new trains ease some of the pain experienced on Vortex?

New restraints (like vest restraints seen on newer B&Ms or even those seen on Vekoma's MK-1212 trains) at the very least would help, should any such changes eventually be made to Vortex. The restraints are what's causing the headbanging/headaches. I myself as a seasoned Vortex rider often feel my head tapping the restraint every now and then. I pity those who have had to endure more that just a few taps while braving Kings Island's oldest looping coaster...and as much as I like Vortex the way it is, I would definitely be all for seeing any possible improvements!

[BeastForever]

I do not know the exact numbers with regards to Vortex's ridership over the past few years (but I do know that lines DON'T necessarily indicate ridership - Vortex is a people-eater remember!)

Aside from ridership, I would say the three most important factors a park considers when assessing the value of a ride is Safety, Reliability, and Capacity (in that order).

Vortex, along with the two other Arrow coasters in the park, passes those tests with flying colors (no pun intended). Therefore, if that is to mean anything, I would say Vortex is relatively safe from the chopping block right now...

Very rarely do parks remove rides for the sake of putting something else there (I recall Mr. Helbig saying had SOB not been removed, Banshee simply would've gone into a different area of the park).

--

While Vortex just misses out on my top 10 coasters at KI (#11), that's most certainly NOT because I dislike it, to use @VortexBFForever's philosophy, I just happen to like 10 other coasters better.

--

BeastForever, who has not experienced an ounce of headbanging on Vortex in nearly a decade.

Why? I "grew out" of that problem LONG ago.

Headbanging? What is this headbanging everyone speaks of?   

[McSalsa]

^
In addition those, I would say parks have a 4th factor- operating cost. However, I don't think Vortex's operating costs are too crazy either. It's a Arrow Looper, a SUPER common model, and even though Arrow has gone out of business so many other companies make parts for this model it is pretty ridiculous. It's also a pretty simple design at its core, with no fancy extra bits like a Suspended or Flying coaster would have. I would not be shocked if Vortex turned out to be cheaper to run than Firehawk, for example, for these very reasons (since I'd imagine Firehawk is probably a lot more complex and has more parts due to its flying design).

In fact, I looked up the Arrow Looping Coasters on RCDB the other day- a LOT of them are actually still operating, even a bunch of the ones from the 1970's. A few have closed, but a few of those even were because their entire park was shut down. I'd imagine the ease of getting parts, high capacity, good reliability, and the model's excellent safety record are probably why so many parks are still holding onto their Arrow loopers in spite of the decreasing popularity. Metal fatigue may eventually start to kick in enough to start their removal, but I'd imagine that will hit the older ones first, and Vortex is one of the newer Arrow loopers so we would see a few other parks (probably ones that don't have as much free land as Kings Island but want to add new coasters) remove their Arrow loopers prior to Vortex kicking the bucket.

I do think new trains with vest restraints like the Vekoma MK1212 would make Vortex a better ride though, however I'd hope the airtime from the back cars on the first drop would remain intact as I find that to be a highlight of the ride. It probably would not return the ride back to 90's levels of popularity, but it would probably really help with the headbanging complaints, possibly to the point where the ride would be much less hated. It would still have its awkward transitions though, they just would not headbang riders anymore. Also if Vortex did get new trains it would probably mean it's staying around for a good while longer, as new trains are NOT a cheap investment.

 

[SonofBaconator]

These are old numbers that @malem had posted a while ago. If you go by the numbers of 2014, Vortex is the 5th most ride at the park with a ridership of a little over a million- compare that to Firehawk which has nearly half of Vortex's ridership. I wonder if capacity would improve on Firehawk if they shaded the break run and only used one side of the station.

[SonofBaconator]

Firehawk is removed from this list since its now a defunct ride, here's the original data prior to its removal if anyone wants to look at it.

[KI Master]

Poor Firehawk.

[NewD4y20]

Flight of Fear. Too gimmicky, like Firehawk, and doesn't run well at times.

 

 

[SonofBaconator]

Updated this poll. Vortex had 23 votes putting it in 3rd place before I took it out. Currently the top 3 are Backlot Stunt Coaster, Invertigo, and Adventure Express

[BeastForever]

Adventure Express a rather distant third however, with Invertigo and BLSC being far and away the leaders of this scenario...

That having said, I think it goes without saying that the disdain for BLSC derives almost entirely from its location and appearance. All other things considered there's nothing wrong with it IMO, and I would argue the capacity argument doesn't really hold up considering its both a launched and family coaster - both of which characteristics that correlate to lower capacity anyway.

Invertigo on the other other hand arguably is in a good location for the kind of ride it is, looks decent, and makes a good visual impression as one walks toward the front gate. But the ride itself obviously leaves much to be desired and the novelty/gimmick of its seating being the only real plus side to me (its still better, than a sitdown boomerang, I'll give it that).

Isolating ride experience I can't imagine there's very many that would prefer Invertigo to BLSC...

[RogueFoxPaws]

I ONLY picked Racer because I’d love to see it revamped.  I’d love to see RMC come in and breathe new life into it.  (And make it a lot less painful.)

[CorkscrewMcPuke]

On 11/18/2018 at 8:48 AM, NewD4y20 said:

Flight of Fear. Too gimmicky, like Firehawk, and doesn't run well at times.

 

 

Flight of Fear is flawless, save for the lobotomizing brake run towards the end.

[Dj325]

I would say The Bat because if Kings Island were to remove it, it would open up a good amount of land for a new ride. That's why Kings Island chose removing Firehawk over Vortex, because by removing Firehawk opened up that whole area behind The Racer to build what is now known as Orion.

[Dj325]

On 11/13/2017 at 2:47 PM, SonofBaconator said:

@IndyGuy4KI maybe Yogi will make a return

I voted Backlot for a number of reasons. While its popular among families, it still has one of the lowest capacities of all the coasters in the park at around 1,000 people per hour.

I agree with @VortexBFForever that the placement isn't the best as it takes up a lot of room that could be used for something bigger and better. If it was in a different part of the park I would reconsider my voting, however its currently placed right smack dab in the middle of the park. The ride only uses about half of the land it occupies but its placed in the exact spot where the other half of that land can't even be utilized. 

The fact that this ride was specifically designed around and themed to a Paramount movie doesn't help its case. Its an eyesore to see a helicopter and flames while hearing police sirens and flashing lights while waling around the park. Cedar Fair has done a good job "de-theming" the Paramount from the park, however BLSC will always remind me of Paramount's presence. 

This is true, but you gotta admit its theming is kinda cool, especially at night!

[Dj325]

On 9/6/2018 at 1:22 PM, SonofBaconator said:

I said it before and I'll say it again: rebrand- remove the existing props theming, repaint the track and supports, and change the trains to fit a western/ antique theme.

http://www.themeparkreview.com/parks/p_345_3124_knotts_berry_farm_pony_express

Maybe they could give it a barnstormer theme.

[ThrillKingsFitzy]

I’m sitting here wondering which 2 people picked mystic. Who dares...