Kings Island Removing an Attraction?

[VortexBFForever]

2 hours ago, homestar92 said:

People think Vortex is unpopular because they don't like it, but Vortex is one of the most ridden rides in the entire park, and it's got a 48 inch height requirement. Removing a 48 inch ride would upset many children who are not yet at 52 inches.

This exactly! I can confirm this from experience. Every day I am there working, I see countless 48” kids ride Vortex, most of whom love it! It always makes my day when I see or hear a kid say “Can we go again?” especially if they just rode for the first time! 

Vortex still holds its own rightful place in KI’s lineup as the only 48” looping coaster, which makes it the perfect ride for the youngsters already ready to brave their first inversions. As a Vortex associate, I get to witness those special moments every work day, and it’s one of my favorite things about my #KIBestJobEver!

I love working Firehawk as well, though it went down twice the last time I was there. But when it’s up, it’s one of my favorite rides besides Vortex to work as well as ride. The main difference is the 54” requirement, so I don’t see as many young thrill-seekers there. But it’s still fun.

I thought Firehawk has always fit in well with the X-Base theme. Though as some of you have mentioned, I do see how it is also the odd one out among Kings Island’s coasters. Unlike Vortex, Firehawk never really found its own niche at Kings Island, even after eleven years...the only thing that’s kept it going is its unconventional design of being a flying coaster (which is a good thing, don’t get me wrong!).

[BeeastFarmer]

  ^ @VortexBFForever, you speak of Firehawk in past tense.  #Firehawkremovalconfirmed 

[VortexBFForever]

@jtro223 What I meant was, OVER TIME I thought it fit in with X-Base, and I still think it does now!  I said I LOVE working Firehawk. That’s in present tense  

 I do not know for sure what ride is leaving!  At this point anything I say is as much of a guess as what we all are saying!

[BeeastFarmer]

I know, @VortexBFForever.  Just giving you a bit of grief--some people get so wrapped up in speculation that they will take any little thing as a clue.  

[VortexBFForever]

I totally understand! I have even seen some people guess that The Beast would be the ride leaving. I think a lot of us would say that it would be the LAST ride to be removed.  

[DeltaFlyer]

First post, here goes-

I did a little digging into the Notice of Commencement that was filed with Warren County for the "2018, 2019, and 2020 Additions and Modifications for Kings Island Park". I compared this document with the one that was filed for the 2016-2017 modifications, which included GCI for Mystic Timbers. I noted if the company was present in the 2016 document, their field of work, and notable things they've done in the park if I could find them. 

Company	Area of Work	2016-2017?	Notable Work?
EXHIBIT 3 FABRICATIONS LLC	Signage	Y	Haunt Sign, Reds Grille Sign
PLAS PLUMBING	Plumbing	Y	Paramount's KI Site Utilities
PATRIOT INDUSTRIAL CONTRACTING SERVICES INC	Rigging/Moving	Y	Winterfest Eiffel Tower Lighting Rigging
QUEEN CITY AWNING	Awnings	Y
KINGDOM PRODUCTION INC	Theming/Signage	Y
BAYNUM PAINTING	Ride Painting	Y	Firehawk (2007) Vortex (2008), The Bat (2015)
PAINTING CONTRACTOR LLC	Interior Painting	Y
DALLAS FLOORING	Interior Flooring	Y
MODERN DAY CONCRETE CONST	Concrete	Y
ASHLEE FENCE ENTERPRISES	Fencing	Y
OHIO HYDRAULICS INC	Hydraulic Hoses/Fittings	Y
HICON INC	Stone Paving/Masonry	Y
CARDINAL LANDSCAPE	Landscaping	Y
DENIER ELECTRIC COMPANY	HV Electrical	Y	Drop Zone, Diamondback
T S GARNETT CONST INC	Excavation	Y
BREHOB ENGINE & COMPRESSOR CO	Air Compressors	Y	Most rides in 2018
KONE INC	Elevators	Y
JOHN R JURGENSEN COMPANY	Paving/Aggregates	Y
BEACON ELECTRIC INC	HV Electrical	Y	Banshee (2014)
SCHMIDT PROGRESSIVE LLC	Fiberglass display fixtures	Y
REFLECT SYSTEMS INC	Digital Signage	Y	Entrance Turnstile Displays
TRUE EDGE INC	Metal Fabrication	Y
R E MIDDLETON CONST	Concrete	Y	WindSeeker Foundations
PERKINS/CARMACK CONST	General Contracting	Y	Mystic Timbers Entrance/Photo, Funnel Cake Building
QUEEN CITY BLACKTOP	Paving	Y
CAMPEON ROOFING INC	Roofing	Y
FENTON RIGGING CO	Ride Erection/Rigging	NO
TRIDENT ENGINEERING INC	Pumps/Water Ride Install	NO	Diamondback Splashdown, Tasmanian Typhoon
BOLLINGER & MABILLARD	Coaster Design/Engineering	NO	Diamondback, Banshee

You can see that we have B&M listed, but note the other two additions- Fenton Rigging and Trident Engineering. Fenton did ride erection back in the Paramount days, though I'm not sure on which rides specifically. Trident Engineering does water pump engineering, most recently at KI the splashdown at the end of Diamondback. There is another rigging company listed, but they seemed to have only been used for hanging the Eiffel Tower lights for Winterfest. 

In 2014, the Adena Corporation out of Mansfield, OH was the steel erector and general contractor for Banshee, a B&M project. Since then, they have also installed Diamondback, Intimidator 305, Maverick, GateKeeper and Valravn. We don't see Adena Corp listed on the Notice of Commencement, but it is possible that they are contracted by B&M directly, not through the park. This leads me to believe that Fenton may be the contractor which will be removing whichever coaster it turns out to be. If that were the case, it is unlikely that it would be scrapped, otherwise a demolition company would be listed instead, like it was in 2014 when O'Rourke Wrecking was contracted to demolish Son of Beast. 

TLDR: No demolition/scrapping company was listed on the Notice Of Commencement, which could mean a relocation instead of demolition. 

[CoasterFreak45]

Not my post, but I found this interesting

!

[LuvingKI]

2 minutes ago, CoasterFreak45 said:

Not my post, but I found this interesting

!

Interesting, and honestly, I love The Vortex, but I'm ok with it being a memory at this point. Firehawk is unique and would rather keep it.

[Arrow]

not gonna lie if Firehawk does get removed I'll miss hearing probably the loudest lift hill on earth.

[VortexBFForever]

And Vortex will take up the title of loudest lift hill in the park  

[King Ding Dong]

@VortexBFForever Other than having only two trains why is Firehawk so slow to dispatch?   It seems to me it may take a tad longer to get everyone in the restraints and settled but once that happens we usually just sit there waiting. Like forever.  

 

 

[OTTER9919]

18 minutes ago, VortexBFForever said:

And Vortex will take up the title of loudest lift hill in the park  

yeah,but can we could both agree that the roughest/weirdest lift hill(s) are from AE

 

as for what coaster i believe will be taken down, i hope its The Bat,I haven't rode Firehawk as much so id love to ride it a whole lot more.

[James78]

1 hour ago, VortexBFForever said:

This exactly! I can confirm this from experience. Every day I am there working, I see countless 48” kids ride Vortex, most of whom love it! It always makes my day when I see or hear a kid say “Can we go again?” especially if they just rode for the first time! 

Vortex still holds its own rightful place in KI’s lineup as the only 48” looping coaster, which makes it the perfect ride for the youngsters already ready to brave their first inversions. As a Vortex associate, I get to witness those special moments every work day, and it’s one of my favorite things about my #KIBestJobEver!

I love working Firehawk as well, though it went down twice the last time I was there. But when it’s up, it’s one of my favorite rides besides Vortex to work as well as ride. The main difference is the 54” requirement, so I don’t see as many young thrill-seekers there. But it’s still fun.

I thought Firehawk has always fit in well with the X-Base theme. Though as some of you have mentioned, I do see how it is also the odd one out among Kings Island’s coasters. Unlike Vortex, Firehawk never really found its own niche at Kings Island, even after eleven years...the only thing that’s kept it going is its unconventional design of being a flying coaster (which is a good thing, don’t get me wrong!).

My daughter made 48” at the end of last season. She finally got up the nerve to ride Vortex this summer. It’s now her favorite ride in the park. I know she’ll be sad if it goes. Even though it beats me up I would be sad too. I don’t care much about Firehawk. I think I only rode it once this season. But that’s just me. I’m sure it has its share of riders that would be sad to see it go. 

[bjcolglazier]

1 hour ago, CoasterFreak45 said:

Not my post, but I found this interesting

!

From what I can gather, a lot of Czarnecki's work revolved around the turbulent airflow over winged aircraft. Vortex? The Bat? Firehawk? I think all COULD apply. 

[McSalsa]

The more I look into this, the more I think it's Firehawk that's gonna leave. Apparently, rumor is, Vekoma has STOPPED supplying parts for some of their unpopular older models, and the Flying Dutchman, and since these models are so rare it is now a huge pain in the rear end to get parts. Six Flags America's Flying Dutchman, Batwing, has been closed since at least July, and apparently will be down the rest of the year as well according to Six Flags' website:

https://www.sixflags.com/america/attractions/thrill-rides

If the Kentucky Kingdom buying Firehawk rumor is also true, then Kentucky Kingdom may have just made a very stupid mistake, buying a used coaster it will be very tough to get parts for (though I don't think they are that dumb and this rumor could easily be false- Kentucky Flyer could be a flat ride). It may also be the case that Cedar Fair is scrapping Firehawk just so they can keep Nighthawk at Carowinds running a few more years, and rumor has it this was part of the reason they also scrapped Stinger at Dorney Park (so Invertigo at Kings Island can have spare parts for a while longer, the Invertigo model is another one parts have stopped being made for according to the rumor).

In comparison, Arrow Looping Coasters, while rough, are very easy to gets parts for due to how common they are and how simple their core design is. Vortex needs new wheels? Very easy to get new ones. Firehawk needs new wheels? Uh-oh. And this could also mean Invertigo, while probably safe for now, may also not be too long for this world as eventually the spare parts they likely ripped from Stinger will run out, and it is also a rare model, unless a 3rd party starts making parts for it, but with so few Invertigo models out there (4 according to RCDB) that may not happen.

[Arrow]

I've always just considered it to be a long, wacky name that KI could just throw on a tombstone.

[PatchesC]

1 hour ago, VortexBFForever said:

This exactly! I can confirm this from experience. Every day I am there working, I see countless 48” kids ride Vortex, most of whom love it! It always makes my day when I see or hear a kid say “Can we go again?” especially if they just rode for the first time! 

Vortex still holds its own rightful place in KI’s lineup as the only 48” looping coaster, which makes it the perfect ride for the youngsters already ready to brave their first inversions. As a Vortex associate, I get to witness those special moments every work day, and it’s one of my favorite things about my #KIBestJobEver!

I love working Firehawk as well, though it went down twice the last time I was there. But when it’s up, it’s one of my favorite rides besides Vortex to work as well as ride. The main difference is the 54” requirement, so I don’t see as many young thrill-seekers there. But it’s still fun.

I thought Firehawk has always fit in well with the X-Base theme. Though as some of you have mentioned, I do see how it is also the odd one out among Kings Island’s coasters. Unlike Vortex, Firehawk never really found its own niche at Kings Island, even after eleven years...the only thing that’s kept it going is its unconventional design of being a flying coaster (which is a good thing, don’t get me wrong!).

Mine just hit 52 inches this year but Vortex is still her favorite. I spent 4 years of her standing with her dad at the exit when she was too short just to watch when I rode (we didn't take her till she hit height for Woodstock Express cause she's a thrill junkie). Or she would stand at the loops by the walk to wait and wave. We have a mark on her wall for Vortex height she was so eager to go. She still has the colored bracelet for 48inches in her memory box. If they announce Vortex closing expect to see a little girl riding until she's made it on every row of the train. 

[standbyme]

2 hours ago, VortexBFForever said:

I see countless 48” kids ride Vortex, most of whom love it! It always makes my day when I see or hear a kid say “Can we go again?” especially if they just rode for the first time! 

Vortex still holds its own rightful place in KI’s lineup as the only 48” looping coaster, which makes it the perfect ride for the youngsters already ready to brave their first inversions. As a Vortex associate, I get to witness those special moments every work day, and it’s one of my favorite things about my #KIBestJobEver!

Thanks for sharing, I am glad that you enjoy your job so much. 

When my nephew reached 48” he was so proud of himself when he got to ride Vortex for the first time.

(I am sure it looks massive when you are young.)

[King Ding Dong]

The whole parts thing has me a bit confused.   It is one thing if Whirlpool stops making parts for a dishwasher after 10 years.  It is completely different if a manufacturer stops supplying parts after 18 years for a multi million dollar piece of equipment.  If this is true then the Vekoma is telling all its customers that if you buy a new design from us it has a service life of under 20 years and then you probably have to scrap it. 

I find this difficult to beleive.  

Von Roll still makes parts for their Type 101 Skyrides.  Intamin still makes parts for Dragster and Ka.

[bjcolglazier]

1 minute ago, King Ding Dong said:

The whole parts thing has me a bit confused.   It is one thing if Whirlpool stops making parts for a dishwasher after 10 years.  It is completely different if a manufacturer stops supplying parts after 18 years for a multi million dollar piece of equipment.  If this is true then the Vekoma is telling all its customers that if you buy a new design from us it has a service life of under 20 years and then you probably have to scrap it. 

I find this difficult to beleive.  

I don't know either, but I figure they stop making parts when there aren't anymore buyers for said parts.

[Benjamin22]

3 minutes ago, bjcolglazier said:

I don't know either, but I figure they stop making parts when there aren't anymore buyers for said parts.

Can anyone confirm they aren’t willing to produce the parts? I feel like They’d still be willing to make the parts but since there’s not a lot of flying Dutchman’s the parts just cost a ton of money. I feel like that’d be the more likely situation rather then the fact they won’t make the parts.

[bjcolglazier]

5 minutes ago, Ben43065 said:

Can anyone confirm they aren’t willing to produce the parts? I feel like They’d still be willing to make the parts but since there’s not a lot of flying Dutchman’s the parts just cost a ton of money. I feel like that’d be the more likely situation rather then the fact they won’t make the parts.

I know absolutely nothing about "the business", but Cedar Fair seems to love B&M. I'm guessing a big part of that is because they work well for years and years at the set price, rather than something they have to throw money at constantly. It would make sense, but again...I have no real idea.

[King Ding Dong]

Here is another thing, some basic math shows that at least on average a major regional park expects to get more than 15-20 years on average out of a coaster. If they want to maintain a coaster count of between 15-20 coasters they need a much longer service life out of each one otherwise they would need to replace one coaster each year and we know the parks can’t do that.

If parts really is the issue it would be irresponsible for management to do business with a company like Vekoma again.  

[McSalsa]

Hmm. Just saw DeltaFlyer's post (glanced over it due to how many posts are here first time) and that is VERY interesting that apparently no demolition companies are involved. I will also note that I cannot confirm if Vekoma is still making parts for Flying Dutchmen or not, it was just a rumor I heard and it could be false (not sure why any company that makes coasters and coaster parts would do that- if that is the case Vekoma is hurting themselves BADLY because this is gonna turn-off companies like Six Flags or Cedar Fair), though Vekoma may have simply raised the prices or something (Flying Dutchmen parts may need to be "special ordered" due to the model's rarity- Since Batwing is still down, Six Flags seems like they don't want to pay for this as well.) If they still are making parts, just at higher prices, then the relocation to Kentucky Kingdom theory gains a little traction. It could just be Cedar Fair isn't willing to pay that much to upkeep Firehawk anymore, especially with the recent struggles and cuts, so they put it up for sale and Kentucky Kingdom is willing to put in the money to maintain this ride if they acquired it for fairly cheap. While it does help a competitor (to some extent- not sure how much a used coaster is gonna boost Kentucky Kingdom), Cedar Fair may just have wanted to get rid of the expensive-to-run Firehawk and make some money from the sale at the same time, plus this does open a big chunk of land for Kings Island to add something big, probably the rumored 2020 B&M (and any money made by selling Firehawk can negate a bit of the expenses of the new coaster). And Kentucky Kingdom gets to advertise their "new" flying coaster without needing to spend the huge cost to actually build a new coaster, though maintenance will probably still cost a lot. Though in that way it'd kind of be like a wooden coaster: cheap to buy, but more expensive to maintain.

Also, since no demolition companies were listed on that list, if that's the case than every Arrow in the park is safe because there is no way Cedar Fair is re-selling any of those because Arrow welded their track together, and all of them are very old. Plus they all use terrain so any park that would buy them would need custom terrain. All the Arrows at Kings Island are probably gonna be demolished, not re-located, when their time does come.

This whole offseason, in the span of 1 week, has IMO gotten pretty crazy all of a sudden. So many theories.

 

[bjcolglazier]

8 minutes ago, King Ding Dong said:

Here is another thing, some basic math shows that at least on average a major regional park expects to get more than 15-20 years on average out of a coaster. If they want to maintain a coaster count of between 15-20 coasters they need a much longer service life out of each one otherwise they would need to replace one coaster each year and we know the parks can’t do that.

If parts really is the issue it would be irresponsible for management to do business with a company like Vekoma again.  

15-20 years on average? What basic math for what crappy park are you doing? And how does it relate to Kings Island?

[SonofBaconator]

@McSalsa According to their website, Vekoma still has the Flying Dutchman on their product list so I don't think spare parts are as hard to come by as people think.

https://www.vekoma.com/index.php/experience-thrill-coasters/flying-dutchman

[King Ding Dong]

3 minutes ago, bjcolglazier said:

15-20 years on average? What basic math for what crappy park are you doing? And how does it relate to Kings Island?

What are you going on about?  I stand by what I said.  KI expects to get much longer than 15-20 years out of a coaster (which is the age range of Firehawk)

[bjcolglazier]

2 minutes ago, King Ding Dong said:

What are you going on about?  I stand by what I said.  KI expects to get much longer than 15-20 years out of a coaster (which is the age range of Firehawk)

I guess I got hung up on the 15-20 year expectation. That IS NOT the expectation for KI. Nor should it be for any park.

[McSalsa]

2 minutes ago, SonofBaconator said:

@McSalsa According to their website, Vekoma still has the Flying Dutchman on their product list so I don't think spare parts are as hard to come by as people think. 

https://www.vekoma.com/index.php/experience-thrill-coasters/flying-dutchman

Hmm. Interesting- though that one does look like it is using the newer Vekoma track. Also IMO, for a flying coaster that layout looks pretty good, with the dive loop and zero-G roll. Those elements are fun on Banshee and I'd imagine they would be fun on a flying coaster. And since this is using newer track, I'd imagine it'd be smoother than Firehawk is to boot.

That does damage the rumor that parts aren't being made, if Vekoma does still offer the model. Though the SBNO status of Batwing still suggests something went wrong there this year, and Firehawk is known to not be the most reliable coaster ever. I guess we will have to wait and see what happens when the park does make the final announcements this week, and when Kentucky Kingdom finally reveals Kentucky Flyer. I'm probably gonna go to the park this weekend, so I hope I know by then so I know which ride to focus on getting those last rides in on.

 

[King Ding Dong]

31 minutes ago, SonofBaconator said:

@McSalsa According to their website, Vekoma still has the Flying Dutchman on their product list so I don't think spare parts are as hard to come by as people think.

https://www.vekoma.com/index.php/experience-thrill-coasters/flying-dutchman

Lol.   “Please buy this awesome coaster from us for 15 million dollars.  However it is a one time use disposable product.  If ANYTHING goes wrong don’t call us.  Sign and date right here.”

Given how crappy most of their other coasters have been, I wouldn’t be surprised.