Decoding 2020

[flightoffear1996]

4 hours ago, befat said:

In watching videos of all three Flying Dutchman’s in their 5 different locations, here’s what I noticed about the seat lifting mechanisms. Stealth used an off train hydraulic system which I’m assuming is the same as Firehawk’s. Nighthawk also uses an off train hydraulic system. X-Flight used on train lift motors on each seat. Batwing continues to use this system. When X-Flight was moved to KI, the on train system was removed and the off train hydraulic system was installed. I believe the motors from X-Flight were sold to Six Flags. If the Firehawk trains could be modified to accommodate a different lifting mechanism, one would think they could be converted back to their original configuration. There’s no reason to ship the entire train across the country. But by storing the trains at KI, CF has the potential to make money by selling parts to Six Flags or save money by shipping parts to Carowinds should the need arise. I do think eventually KI will decide that the location next to the new ride is not ideal and they’ll be moved elsewhere in the park. Nighthawk and Batwing are major coasters at their parks. I wouldn’t be surprised if they stuck around for a lot longer.

I would guess they will move them inside Flight of Fear at some point. 

Ps. I would like to buy a car from the park if they Re going to trash em. Make a cool patio bench.  

[KIghostguy]

6 hours ago, BoddaH1994 said:

Both were completely rewired and modernized when they were moved. Not sure if that would make them compatible or not, but it’s worth consideration. 

I have it confirmed by Mike Koontz that Firehawk’s trains are incompatible with Nighthawk.

[silver2005]

My source was a bit more interesting.  The other site I used to be apart of had a bunch of European and English members before it spiraled down to nothingness, and one of those members took a tour of the Vekoma facilities in the Netherlands, and at the time, Firehawk was just announced for Kings Island and we were going over how if Nighthawk's trains and parts would work on Firehawk because we all thought Nighthawk wouldn't last at Carowinds very long and he confirmed the compatibility issue. 

[IndyGuy4KI]

Construction update as of today.



 

 

And here is the storage building being constructed.

[IndyGuy4KI]

Sorry for the double post, but wanted to post an up close picture of the storage building. Maintenance is busy installing lighting today.

[upstop]

Seems like an awfully big building just to temporarily store the Grand Carnivale floats. Grand Carnivale is over on July 7th..... then what would it be used for?

[fryoj]

1 minute ago, upstop said:

Seems like an awfully big building just to temporarily store the Grand Carnivale floats. Grand Carnivale is over on July 7th..... then what would it be used for?

 

Where are the floats going after July 7th?

[arrold]

4 minutes ago, upstop said:

Seems like an awfully big building just to temporarily store the Grand Carnivale floats. Grand Carnivale is over on July 7th..... then what would it be used for?

It looked a lot smaller from the Eiffel Tower. Seeing those people in it, it definitely looks big enough for a Haunt attraction. Who knows.

[upstop]

Kings Dominion in Doswell, Virginia and Kings Island in Mason, Ohio – June 15-July 7;

Worlds of Fun in Kansas City, Missouri – July 13-August 4; and

Dorney Park in Allentown, Pennsylvania – July 20-August 11.

I’m guessing that they will be sharing the parade between parks. KD with Dorney and KI with WOF. That’s only four parks in the chain, maybe next year there will be more parks online for the parade or even different parades.

[TristinTargaryen]

41 minutes ago, upstop said:

Seems like an awfully big building just to temporarily store the Grand Carnivale floats. Grand Carnivale is over on July 7th..... then what would it be used for?

They have the same structure supports sitting behind Twisted Timbers at KD for the exact same kind of building.

[IndyGuy4KI]

I do not know what the park intends to store in there, or how long. I just know it is going to be used for storage. 

[fryoj]

20 minutes ago, upstop said:

Kings Dominion in Doswell, Virginia and Kings Island in Mason, Ohio – June 15-July 7;

Worlds of Fun in Kansas City, Missouri – July 13-August 4; and

Dorney Park in Allentown, Pennsylvania – July 20-August 11.

I’m guessing that they will be sharing the parade between parks. KD with Dorney and KI with WOF. That’s only four parks in the chain, maybe next year there will be more parks online for the parade or even different parades.

It's also possible that after they are done at WOF and DP, they ship them back to KI and KD and store them there all Winter. 

[upstop]

Anything is possible.

[befat]

8 hours ago, MDMC01 said:

Great info, befat! What is the difference between onboard hydraulics and off train hydraulics? I just watched a video of Stealth and it looks like it had a similar system to Firehawk (I’m not sure how to spot the differences between the two systems).

For Stealth/Nighthawk and Firehawk, there is/was a giant hydraulic powered structure under the station that lifts the train.  For every row, there are 2 little whee ls that ride along 2 metal C shaped bars which raise the train (circled in red).  These metal bars are all attached to one big structure under the station.

For X-Flight and Batwing, the mechanism that raises the train was/is a motor attached to the chassis of the train for each row.  I've never seen this mechanism/motor in action but I'm guessing it is hydraulic powered.

Photo credit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO9aX70VK-o

Edit:

Check out the screen grab below from a video of X-Flight to see the difference in the systems.  Credit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRfvCMv8P6A

 

 

 

 

[SonofBaconator]

1 hour ago, IndyGuy4KI said:

I do not know what the park intends to store in there, or how long. I just know it is going to be used for storage. 

I feel like if it were for Grand Carnivale it would have been set up earlier. Also has anyone asked the park? I think they wouldn't keep it a secret if the building was built for the event.

[BruceWayneWins]

If this was a floorless how would that impact the speed vs the same coaster with a traditional giga trains?

[FUN&ONLY!]

Having been at the park a couple times this season, I cannot even tell you how many GP have seen the clearing and think that a giga is coming! I have heard many people “bragging” to their friends that they know what is coming next year! I guess John Materese has done his job!

[SonofBaconator]

CP Food Blog trolling

 

[MDMC01]

5 hours ago, befat said:

For Stealth/Nighthawk and Firehawk, there is/was a giant hydraulic powered structure under the station that lifts the train.  For every row, there are 2 little whee ls that ride along 2 metal C shaped bars which raise the train (circled in red).  These metal bars are all attached to one big structure under the station.

For X-Flight and Batwing, the mechanism that raises the train was/is a motor attached to the chassis of the train for each row.  I've never seen this mechanism/motor in action but I'm guessing it is hydraulic powered.

Photo credit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO9aX70VK-o

Edit:

Check out the screen grab below from a video of X-Flight to see the difference in the systems.  Credit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRfvCMv8P6A

 

 

 

 

Thanks for that info/explanation; I personally find it very fascinating! I just watched that X-Flight video and was amazed that there was no bar to lift the trains up (like Firehawk had)! 

[kirbias1]

The new structure could be a place to store all of the things in those semi trailers that will have to be moved.

[ohiocoasterfan]

Anybody have an idea on the size between those supports on this new building? I’m estimating each is 20 feet in length for a total of 100. That structure is a lot bigger than I thought it would be.

[Shawn Meyer]

Just curious did they just rip up the old Dinosaurs Alive paths? It kind of looks that way from the recent pictures posted on this page.

[BSBMX]

6 hours ago, Shawn Meyer said:

Just curious did they just rip up the old Dinosaurs Alive paths? It kind of looks that way from the recent pictures posted on this page.

I can't say for the entire path as the images do not show it, but there's still at least a lot of path left that will be directly below the coaster (drop, helix area). The yellow areas I circled below roughly match the same paths on the blueprints. Also, per the blueprint, it looks like the new air compressor building for the trim brake will be built right along the existing path for easy access (red circle below). Removing these concrete slabs would have just cost more money, and they may still have plans for them in the future, even if they're just for maintenance reasons. 

 

 

[fyrfyter]

I would think leaving the path in place at least through construction makes sense. Less time spent moving cranes and man lifts through the mud and dirt if there’s a path that can be used.

[BSBMX]

12 hours ago, BruceWayneWins said:

If this was a floorless how would that impact the speed vs the same coaster with a traditional giga trains?

Overall, I'd say it's negligible, with the floorless being a bit slower.

The standard hyper trains all have some sort of lead car, which is shorter in height compared to seating car. These shorter lead cars would help with the aerodynamics of the train, losing less speed due to air resistance. The floorless trains do not have this--they start right off with a seating car, essentially a blunt wall to the wind. This will slow the floorless trains down some, but for how short of a span (in both distance and time) that these trains reach their highest speed, again I'd estimate the difference is negligible. 

 

7 hours ago, ohiocoasterfan said:

Anybody have an idea on the size between those supports on this new building? I’m estimating each is 20 feet in length for a total of 100. That structure is a lot bigger than I thought it would be.

I'd guess you're close with your 20' figure, but note that the center span is a bit shorter than the others. 

 

[bkroz]

This is obviously going to be an awesome ride. But just to be a negative Nancy for 10 seconds, I feel the slightest bit of disappointment that it's another giant Cedar Fair B&M of swooping drops, soaring turnarounds, etc. 

I feel like Mystic Timbers put us on a good path to having coasters from smaller manufacturers, with more-than-just-a-barn-for-a-station theming, and with personality. X-Base (quasi-dystopian, questionably-governmental flight and technology research testing facility) totally lends itself to an epic, different kind of coaster with amazing personality and re-ridability!

It seems like the perfect area to have a twisted, compact Mack coaster like Walibi Holland's Lost Gravity, diving around set pieces and props, right? Something nimble, bright, colorful, and twisted, with some iconic, spinning, light-up sculpture (this example isn't what you expect, but is perfect) in the middle of the layout "tearing space and time," and pulling props toward it.

Obviously Alton Towers' Smiler has its own issues, but wouldn't a wild Gerstlauer be fantastic in X-Base, and unlike anything in Kings Island or Cedar Point? Anyone who's been on a Eurofighter knows they are truly unique in the sensation and pacing. Smiler has an LED screen at its center with mechanical "spider legs" coming from it, and each leg has its own weirdo props that are part of the ride's "hypnotizing" process. It's eerie, but comical, and no one but Gerstlauer could've built a roller coaster that looks and feels right for such a story.

Or, to borrow from my favorite, Verbolten, imagine if X-Base got a multi-launch Zierer coaster. Imagine that we, as guests, are cast as trainees being dispatched to an old, retired, unstable facility back in the woods leftover from the '70s where X-Base scientists were working on experimental interdimensional technology. The coaster might start by just coasting out of the hi-tech station and into the woods slaloming through trees before coming across a massive, rusted, old government warehouse that's all dilapidated. Then, inside, the coaster immediately turns toward the glowing portal and launches into a spiraling, twisting interior of pulsing lights and sounds. The train finally escapes through a tear in time, screeching to a halt back in the old, broken down facility, and that's where a vertical drop track falls, with the ride launching back through the woods to the station.

If it's got to be a B&M (which is understandable! High reliability, high capacity, very showy, feel like "headliners"), how about a Wing Coaster that's intentionally positioned as an OPPOSITE of GateKeeper, keeping low to the ground and spiraling through set pieces, like Thorpe Park's Swarm? It could be themed to a prototype flight experiment that's escaped from an X-Base office building and is tearing through the facility.

Even a Dive Machine would be awesome if it were given X-Base theming, which essentially means it would just need looked at like Alton Towers' Oblivion.

Is this new coaster going to be amazing? ABSOLUTELY. Don't get me wrong. And I'm sure its station will look metal and it'll have a quosnet hut queue building, and it will play high-energy techno-music while you wait, and it'll be blue or gray and have a name that kinda sorta feels like a "secret project" that X-Base might be working on. It's just a little disappointing that after all that famous "Cedar Fair theming lite," it'll be a big, tall steel coaster with airtime hills and sweeping turns and (gasp) maybe an overbanked turn. While I love that Cedar Fair is getting braver when it comes to queue theming, it almost makes it worse when the "build-up" leads to nothing. There's barely the insinuation of a narrative, but then that narrative has no conclusion at the end, which means it might as well have not even been there.

Each of the rides above are rides that set their respective parks apart because just a little extra care and attention was put into them. To my thinking, each is the roller coaster equivalent of a "viral post." You WANT to tell your friends the backstory; you WANT to bring first-timers who will be amazed by the "surprise" element; you WANT to ride again and again. Another big, tall, fast roller coaster will be amazing. But it that what's needed in Kings Island's lineup? Maybe for LOTS of people, it is! I just hope we continue to see projects like Mystic Timbers, too. 

[Kturner61]

On 6/7/2019 at 10:27 AM, flightoffear1996 said:

Ride look awesome and I can’t wait to ride. My only dislike is that the final brake run is so high off the ground. It just looks strange. I guess they do that to keep the wear and tear off the brakes 

I got to ride Fury 325 on Friday and it’s the same way. Looked strange that you have to go back downhill to get into the loading area 

[FUN&ONLY!]

2 hours ago, bkroz said:

This is obviously going to be an awesome ride. But just to be a negative Nancy for 10 seconds, I feel the slightest bit of disappointment that it's another giant Cedar Fair B&M of swooping drops, soaring turnarounds, etc. 

I feel like Mystic Timbers put us on a good path to having coasters from smaller manufacturers, with more-than-just-a-barn-for-a-station theming, and with personality. X-Base (quasi-dystopian, questionably-governmental flight and technology research testing facility) totally lends itself to an epic, different kind of coaster with amazing personality and re-ridability!

It seems like the perfect area to have a twisted, compact Mack coaster like Walibi Holland's Lost Gravity, diving around set pieces and props, right? Something nimble, bright, colorful, and twisted, with some iconic, spinning, light-up sculpture (this example isn't what you expect, but is perfect) in the middle of the layout "tearing space and time," and pulling props toward it.

Obviously Alton Towers' Smiler has its own issues, but wouldn't a wild Gerstlauer be fantastic in X-Base, and unlike anything in Kings Island or Cedar Point? Anyone who's been on a Eurofighter knows they are truly unique in the sensation and pacing. Smiler has an LED screen at its center with mechanical "spider legs" coming from it, and each leg has its own weirdo props that are part of the ride's "hypnotizing" process. It's eerie, but comical, and no one but Gerstlauer could've built a roller coaster that looks and feels right for such a story.

Or, to borrow from my favorite, Verbolten, imagine if X-Base got a multi-launch Zierer coaster. Imagine that we, as guests, are cast as trainees being dispatched to an old, retired, unstable facility back in the woods leftover from the '70s where X-Base scientists were working on experimental interdimensional technology. The coaster might start by just coasting out of the hi-tech station and into the woods slaloming through trees before coming across a massive, rusted, old government warehouse that's all dilapidated. Then, inside, the coaster immediately turns toward the glowing portal and launches into a spiraling, twisting interior of pulsing lights and sounds. The train finally escapes through a tear in time, screeching to a halt back in the old, broken down facility, and that's where a vertical drop track falls, with the ride launching back through the woods to the station.

If it's got to be a B&M (which is understandable! High reliability, high capacity, very showy, feel like "headliners"), how about a Wing Coaster that's intentionally positioned as an OPPOSITE of GateKeeper, keeping low to the ground and spiraling through set pieces, like Thorpe Park's Swarm? It could be themed to a prototype flight experiment that's escaped from an X-Base office building and is tearing through the facility.

Even a Dive Machine would be awesome if it were given X-Base theming, which essentially means it would just need looked at like Alton Towers' Oblivion.

Is this new coaster going to be amazing? ABSOLUTELY. Don't get me wrong. And I'm sure its station will look metal and it'll have a quosnet hut queue building, and it will play high-energy techno-music while you wait, and it'll be blue or gray and have a name that kinda sorta feels like a "secret project" that X-Base might be working on. It's just a little disappointing that after all that famous "Cedar Fair theming lite," it'll be a big, tall steel coaster with airtime hills and sweeping turns and (gasp) maybe an overbanked turn. While I love that Cedar Fair is getting braver when it comes to queue theming, it almost makes it worse when the "build-up" leads to nothing. There's barely the insinuation of a narrative, but then that narrative has no conclusion at the end, which means it might as well have not even been there.

Each of the rides above are rides that set their respective parks apart because just a little extra care and attention was put into them. To my thinking, each is the roller coaster equivalent of a "viral post." You WANT to tell your friends the backstory; you WANT to bring first-timers who will be amazed by the "surprise" element; you WANT to ride again and again. Another big, tall, fast roller coaster will be amazing. But it that what's needed in Kings Island's lineup? Maybe for LOTS of people, it is! I just hope we continue to see projects like Mystic Timbers, too. 

I like your thoughts, but they make me feel like we need a completely separate thread for “The Coaster After the Giga!”

[collin.klopfstein]

Better picture of the track at CSF. All credit goes to coaster media. Source- 

 

[FUN&ONLY!]

3 minutes ago, collin.klopfstein said:

Better picture of the track at CSF. All credit goes to coaster media.

THE WATERMARK IS BLOCKING THE LABEL AND WRITING ON THE TRACK!

EDIT: It may still not be clear enough to read!