Vortex Is Leaving After This Fall Season

[FoF96"]

I think the only way to make up for this is to install an infinity coaster that dethrones Smiler if it’s inversion title.

my reasoning:  When Vortex opened, it held the inversion record, it’s only fitting its successor do the same.

[Shawn Meyer]

7 hours ago, CedarIslander said:

Am I the only one that reads this as "We are not dismantling Vortex!"  This, to me, seems more like a Mantis situation. Maybe some track improvements, new trains, new name. etc.

Well I don't see them converting Vortex into a Floorless roller coaster, but I know where your going with this. I would be all for a B&M floorless roller coaster to come to Kings Island, but time will tell if that happens or not. My dream fantasy would be to see Vortex removed and put a B&M floorless roller coaster in it's spot. However, I would welcome the idea of maybe they're fixing certain areas of the ride and changing the route a little to make the ride a lot smoother than before. The one area where I sort of snap my neck around is the turn before the mid-course brake run. I can't stand that spot on Vortex.  I was even thinking maybe they could change The Vortex track and layout like they did when they re-did Steel Phantom at Kennywood. However, somebody already shot that idea down as unlikely.

[TheRickster]

Honestly a Mack would be great in that spot, especially something like smiler. 

I really don't want a dive machine, or anything else from B&M, who knew we would ever say something like that back in 04-08.

[Sebastien6221]

I love B&M. Why would you not want anything else from them?

[Benjamin22]

10 minutes ago, Sebastien6221 said:

I love B&M. Why would you not want anything else from them?

To be fair their rides feel very similar to each other (especially modern B&M’s). I’m hoping for a launch Wing coaster & eventually a Dive coaster in Invertigo & Congo falls location. 

[fyrfyter]

To be fair their rides feel very similar to each other (especially modern B&M’s). I’m hoping for a launch Wing coaster & eventually a Dive coaster in Invertigo & Congo falls location. 

I don’t think the front location is prime for much of anything. I don’t see either ride being removed anytime soon. Invertigo is only 20 years old and Vekoma is still in business, unlike Arrow.

I do think The Vortex site will get reused.

I think the next site after that one will be where The Bat is. It was installed in 1993, so it will be 30 years old in 4 short years, which means it’s next on the chopping block. Not to mention, still plenty of area out that way for a bigger, better replacement to go.

[Benjamin22]

6 minutes ago, fyrfyter said:

I don’t think the front location is prime for much of anything. I don’t see either ride being removed anytime soon. Invertigo is only 20 years old and Vekoma is still in business, unlike Arrow.

 

Doesn’t really matter if Vekoma is still in business if they don’t support the rides… Invertigo’s sister ride Stinger has already been removed. If you remove Congo falls & Invertigo you’ll start to open up a decent amount of land. I see Invertigo going before The Bat.

[Sebastien6221]

Isnt Thunderbird a B&M?

[LovinMeSomeBanshee]

13 minutes ago, Sebastien6221 said:

Isnt Thunderbird a B&M?

Yep, a launched wing.

[KI Guy]

1 hour ago, Sebastien6221 said:

I love B&M. Why would you not want anything else from them?

Variety is the spice of life!

I've found  that each manufacturer has a feel and philosophy. 

B & Ms are big, fun and are generally less intense than their size may suggest. They are incredibly comfortable and reliable. They have a very broad appeal. 

RMCs are absolute insanity. Their philosophy is to make the most intense, disorienting, air time filled coaters that height and budget allow. These may be too intense for some. They are also not as reliable as a B&M. A major plus not to be overlooked is that all RMCs use a lap bar restraint even for coasters worth inversions.

Intamin is similar to RMC with intensity level, but at least today, is not as innovative especially with inversions. It's reliability record has been spotty to say the least.

GCIs are very good costers, but are not usually as intense as the full size coasters from the Gravity Group. However they age so much better than traditional wood coasters by any manufacturer including GG. 

There are of course other manufacturers but I'm not qualified to give a summary of them. 

 

[standbyme]

PLEASE, PLEASE Kings Island, sell some pieces of the ride, it doesn’t have to be much....just a plain old piece of the track, or wood from the station....cut an 8 inch piece, print out a Certificate Of Authenticity and rape* me! 

*Just so no one gets offended, when using the word rape, I am using this Webster's definition of the word: “an act or instance of robbing”.

 

[BoddaH1994]

Sing with me, children!!!

Firehawk's Warning

by BoddaH1994

Don't you ever laugh when O'Rourke's called

Because you might be the next to fall

They'll hook their chains from the top to the ground

And then they'll pull your lift hill down

They'll bend you up like a switch blade knife

And that's the end of your service life

[BeastForever]

12 hours ago, fyrfyter said:

Invertigo is only 20 years old and Vekoma is still in business, unlike Arrow.

As has been stated earlier in this thread, Arrow being out of business has nothing to do with the removal of Vortex, as S&S is available to sell practically any part to be needed on existing Arrow rides.

We don't know the exact reason or reasons for its seemingly abrupt removal, but we at least know that is not one of them.

[silver2005]

This may be possibly chalked up to generic park responses, but the thing I keep hearing on the media reports is the park stated that Vortex lasted longer than its life expectancy.  If that part is consistent throughout the industry, I'd be wanting to get last rides on the bigger Arrows soon (Anaconda, Magnum, Viper) as they aren't too much younger than Vortex.  

[McSalsa]

8 minutes ago, silver2005 said:

This may be possibly chalked up to generic park responses, but the thing I keep hearing on the media reports is the park stated that Vortex lasted longer than its life expectancy.  If that part is consistent throughout the industry, I'd be wanting to get last rides on the bigger Arrows soon (Anaconda, Magnum, Viper) as they aren't too much younger than Vortex.  

IMO of those 3, Magnum probably has the best chance of survival as it is still pretty popular in spite of its age. When I was at Cedar Point a few weeks ago (first weekend of Halloweekends) I noticed in the operator's booth it has already given 1,000,000+ rides this year alone. Raptor, for comparison- one of CP's most popular B&Ms, was only at 930,000. Though I do think they may have to give Magnum a major overhaul/repair soon, due to its age.

Anaconda and Viper are probably screwed though.

[silver2005]

My thoughts have nothing to do with the popularity.  I'm talking more on the track and structure.  I'm convinced that's why Vortex is leaving.  

[McSalsa]

2 minutes ago, silver2005 said:

My thoughts have nothing to do with the popularity.  I'm talking more on the track and structure.  

Yeah I thought of that. Of the 3 rides though, if something structural or track repair does need done, Magnum probably has the best chance that Cedar Fair will pay to have it done. Anaconda and Viper probably won't warrant a expensive repair like that at all, if Vortex couldn't.

Granted if it is really bad, even Magnum's popularity won't save it. Volcano's issues were bad enough that they removed it even though it was clearly one of the most beloved coasters at Kings Dominion.

[silver2005]

The lifespan of Tennessee Tornado and X2 will also be interesting to check in on.  X2 is probably on the shorter end, but aside from the inversions, a lot of Tornado's track and structure are close to the ground or underground along with improved engineering being not of the Ron Toomer era. 

[vwkw1981]

Eerie pic I snapped last night as my kids took what could be there last ride on The Vortex.  I am thankful to share that my first looping coaster and both of my children's both happened on The Vortex 30 years apart. 

[WoodVengeance]

I'm wondering if we're going to be seeing the other Cedar Fair arrow loopers get removed in the near future as well. Carolina Cyclone, Dragon Fyre, Demon and Corkscrew are all older than Vortex and are still operating.

[kirbias1]

On 9/27/2019 at 6:28 AM, Phantom Theater said:

I’m completely saddened and disappointed by this news. Two coasters gone in two years? What are they thinking? Especially as one as iconic and beautiful as Vortex. I could see them announcing its removal for a new coaster, but to announce it without a replacement... This just sounds wrong. I’m very curious why they want to remove it without replacement. Honestly kind of makes me lose respect for KI and CF, no matter how silly it seems. 

Yep. Part of me thinks CF is slowly getting rid of these rides for other reasons, possibly to save money and to take out KI's iconic rides. Vortex was truly the last great Arrow looper. Why would CF not want KI to have it? The Viper and Lochness would be the other ones, but Viper is in horrible shape, but still up and running, nonetheless.  Lochness Monster will be the last good one standing IMO, and that was built in the 70s. I hope they at least keep The Vortex's/ Bat's beautiful station, but i'm sure CF will probably want to rip that one from history as well. 

[Benjamin22]

6 minutes ago, kirbias1 said:

Yep. Part of me thinks CF is slowly getting rid of these rides for other reasons, possibly to save money and to take out KI's iconic rides. Vortex was truly the last great Arrow looper. Why would CF not want KI to have it? The Viper and Lochness would be the other ones, but Viper is in horrible shape, but still up and running, nonetheless.  Lochness Monster will be the last good one standing IMO, and that was built in the 70s. I hope they at least keep The Vortex's/ Bat's beautiful station, but i'm sure CF will probably want to rip that one from history as well. 

Cedar Fair isn’t out to get Kings Island, the ride was eventually going to have to bite the dust. I wouldn’t be surprised if they keep the station to maybe use it for a haunt maze to be honest.

[KIghostguy]

30 minutes ago, kirbias1 said:

Part of me thinks CF is slowly getting rid of these rides for other reasons...and to take out KI's iconic rides.

Wow, exactly! You have hit the nail on the head. Just like how they removed The Beast and The Racer! 

[silver2005]

I think its just sheer coincidence that both Firehawk and Vortex bit the dust at nearly the same time.  The former was a maintenance nightmare, even in the eyes of the GP, and anyone familiar with Arrow coaster longevity kind of sensed Vortex's end in the near future (not as near as most expected for sure).  

[SonofBaconator]

[TombRaiderFTW]

4 hours ago, McSalsa said:

Anaconda [...] [is] probably screwed though.

Humanity is better off. Anaconda does not abide by the Geneva Convention.

I think I honestly had to process Vortex's removal a bit before posting my full thoughts. I don't have too much love for it, but it's been at the park since my childhood. It was my first looping coaster. Seeing the double loop from the midway is as synonymous with Kings Island as The Beast or the Eiffel Tower for me. It's a bit like losing that coworker you've worked with for years and didn't particularly like, but you could rely on them to be there and do their job. I think one of the parts of this I'm sad about is losing the sound of its lift hill and brakes, because those are such iconic summer sounds for me. But, of course, everything has its time.

I don't mean this in some backhanded, outraged way, but I do feel like the park's lineup grew a little more homogeneous with this announcement. I'm not about to swear off the park or anything, but there was something cool about the mix of old and new we had going on. A classic Arrow looper isn't something that any other company offers something comparable to. There's just something about the way an Arrow rides, for better or for worse, that has never been duplicated and likely never will. I feel about this how I felt when Wildcat and Disaster Transport left CP--I think their replacements were better experiences, but the ride lineup lost a little diversity that I had previously enjoyed. But again, I'm sure there's more to this announcement than the park just deciding to ruin everyone's day, haha. If metal fatigue was the cause, then a full-scale replacement a la Hulk would be in order... Is Vortex worth that compared to a new ride in that spot? As others have mentioned, the answer is likely "no," if such a thing is even possible with a 32 year-old Arrow.

I do think that whatever replaces it also needs to be iconic. I love B&M, and they make great and reliable rides, but in my opinion, a B&M is pretty rarely iconic. Fury 325 and Thunderbird? Absolutely--because both break the mold and offer something distinct from start to finish that is not only unique to the parks they're in, but also to the roller coaster world as a whole. But honestly, a lot of B&Ms offer a supporting role that round out a park experience but do kind of fit the generic roller coaster experience. They're fun and fast but kind of forgettable? Like, I like Rougarou and think it helps make Cedar Point what it is, but how many people, enthusiast or general public, are going to Cedar Point specifically to ride it? (I only single out B&M because of Cedar Fair's reliance on them, which I don't think is a bad thing--it's just a thing.)

I think Vortex's removal is a really special opportunity for the park. They've just removed a looping coaster with a 48" height restriction. It's more accessible to the younguns than Invertigo, Banshee, or Flight of Fear, and I'd wager a guess that it was many people's first looping coaster. I don't personally feel like the best replacement is a gigantic, ultra-intense record-setter with a 54" height restriction. That made sense with the transition from Son of Beast to Banshee, but I don't feel like that's the case here. And the 48" looping coaster world is an interesting one--that's where you find rides like Hangtime at Knott's, Railblazer at Great America, and Twisted Timbers at Kings Dominion. And I'm curious to know what Cedar Fair's feelings are with RMC since Steel Vengeance.

Especially now that we've gotten that giga, I'm really intrigued to see what they do with that area. There's not a particular model that leaps out at me as a possibility.

[fyrfyter]

As has been stated earlier in this thread, Arrow being out of business has nothing to do with the removal of Vortex, as S&S is available to sell practically any part to be needed on existing Arrow rides.
We don't know the exact reason or reasons for its seemingly abrupt removal, but we at least know that is not one of them.

It also says that S&S doesn’t own all the Arrow patents and designs. So if a specific part is needed, it could be part of the problem.

[BeastForever]

11 hours ago, Ben43065 said:

Doesn’t really matter if Vekoma is still in business if they don’t support the rides… Invertigo’s sister ride Stinger has already been removed. 

In this article Dorney Park cited low ridership, coupled with maintenance problems as the main reason for Stinger's removal. Nowhere is anything mentioned about replacement parts being an issue to find.

Its worth noting that there are two other Invertigo models operating overseas (one of them a relocate opened in 2015). There are also five Giant Inverted Boomerangs still operating, and as we know there are two Flying Dutchmans still in operation as well. Granted, the futures of those coasters are certainly in question as they all suffer from similiar issues as Stinger, but I don't think Vekoma not supplying parts would be the reason for any of their removals.

I'm genuinely curious as to where the whole "Vekoma doesn't their support their older/rarer models" rumor originally surfaced. No where can I find any legitimate backing for it, outside of enthusiast hearsay/readsay.

 

ALL that having said, I completely agree with you about Invertigo likely being the next coaster removed (with CF along with it), but not for the reason you're suggesting.

11 minutes ago, fyrfyter said:

It also says that S&S doesn’t own all the Arrow patents and designs. So if a specific part is needed, it could be part of the problem.

Possible, I suppose. But unlikely...

[FUN&ONLY!]

4 minutes ago, BeastForever said:

In this article Dorney Park cited low ridership, coupled with maintenance problems as the main reason for Stinger's removal. Nowhere is anything mentioned about replacement parts being an issue to find.

Its worth noting that there are two other Invertigo models operating overseas (one of them a relocate opened in 2015). There are also five Giant Inverted Boomerangs still operating, and as we know there are two Flying Dutchmans still in operation as well. Granted, the futures of those coasters are certainly in question as they all suffer from similiar issues as Stinger, but I don't think Vekoma not supplying parts would be the reason for any of their removals.

I'm genuinely curious as to where the whole "Vekoma doesn't their support their older/rarer models" rumor originally surfaced. No where can I find any legitimate backing for it, outside of enthusiast hearsay/readsay.

 

ALL that having said, I completely agree with you about Invertigo likely being the next coaster removed (with CF along with it), but not for the reason you're suggesting.

Possible, I suppose. But unlikely...

Chad Showalter said last year that it was becoming harder for the park to find new parts for Firehawk as it aged.

 

[KIghostguy]

20 minutes ago, FUN&ONLY! said:

Chad Showalter said last year that it was becoming harder for the park to find new parts for Firehawk as it aged.

 

It wasn’t that parts were hard to find, they were just exorbitantly expensive. The cost-per-rider for Firehawk was just ridiculous.