Discussing Land and Space in and around Vortex

[King Ding Dong]

Just started a “What ride at KI have you never been on” thread.  Thought it would be interesting.  

[Shawn Meyer]

I know I've been discussing this in the Could Kings Island get a floorless thread, but how would everyone feel about that coming to Kings Island?

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

Just now, Shawn Meyer said:

I know I've been discussing this in the Could Kings Island get a floorless thread, but how would everyone feel about that coming to Kings Island?

I'd be fine with it, but it is not my first choice. If I was running the park, I wouldn't go with that. I would probably go with an RMC ground up or multi launch coaster (probably Intamin) but I'd be fine with Mack. 

[Shawn Meyer]

^ Well yeah, my first choice would be an RMC ground up as well. But If Kings Island decided to put in a roller coaster that's on the level of Intermediate, a floorless would be my second choice.

[Benjamin22]

I’d rather have a launched wing or a Mack multilaunch, I personally don’t care for floorless coasters.

[SonofBaconator]

I chose a floorless because it would be the closest modern replacement for Vortex in terms of coaster types. Well technically a B&M sit-down would be closer but there was only 5 of those ever built.

I love the experience of a traditional chainlift coaster with 6+ inversions and a B&M sit-down/ floorless would be the only type that would fit that profile.

Sure we could get a wing, dive, launched, etc but at the end of the day I'd still think there'd be something missing. 

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

1 minute ago, SonofBaconator said:

I chose a floorless because it would be the closest modern replacement for Vortex in terms of coaster types. Well technically a B&M sit-down would be closer but there was only 5 of those ever built.

I honestly don't think the park when replacing a coaster looks too much into how close the replacement is to the former ride. In fact, I would argue that KI chooses not to replace a coaster with a very similar coaster type. Like they didn't replace SOB with another wooden coaster. They also didn't replace Firehawk with another flying coaster. So if they were to replace Vortex with a coaster, I doubt it would be a sit down looper or floorless (a floorless is pretty close to a standard sit down looper, but is a little different.) 

[Benjamin22]

^ I believe the coaster will still be inversion focused though, Vortex’s removal results in Ki only having 3 inverting coasters.

[SonofBaconator]

7 minutes ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

I honestly don't think the park when replacing a coaster looks too much into how close the replacement is to the former ride. In fact, I would argue that KI chooses not to replace a coaster with a very similar coaster type. Like they didn't replace SOB with another wooden coaster. They also didn't replace Firehawk with another flying coaster. So if they were to replace Vortex with a coaster, I doubt it would be a sit down looper or floorless (a floorless is pretty close to a standard sit down looper, but is a little different.) 

That's true but Vortex outlived all of them so I personally would want to see a modern looping coaster take its spot. 

Like what @Benjamin22 said, and what I've been arguing for months, is that KI lost a ton of inversions these past two years- 11 to be exact.

If we don't get a coaster that has at least 6 inversions I would be a little disappointed

[Klabergian Empire]

1 minute ago, Benjamin22 said:

^ I believe the coaster will still be inversion focused though, Vortex’s removal results in Ki only having 3 inverting coasters.

Just to think of how many inversions we lost in the last two years. We lost six with Vortex and five with Firehawk. That's 11 inversions in two years! Whatever we get next coaster wise needs to have inversions.

[SonofBaconator]

And I'm not saying it HAS to be a B&M floorless or sit-down but there's not a lot of other options out there-

• Cedar Fair hasn't worked a lot with S&S so I don't think they'd want to risk getting a coaster like Steel Curtain
• Vekoma is still building up their reputation with newer products, as is Intamin
• RMC hasn't even made a T-Rex model yet so I don't think Cedar Fair would take risks with them. I'd also doubt they'd build ground-up hybrid or a raptor.
• Gerstlauer makes smaller sized coasters so if we do get one from them with a lot of inversions, it'll be a lot smaller. Plus their models traditionally have around 16 person trains
• Mack is another candidate that seems to be a hot choice but they manufacture their track overseas which makes their coasters a little more costly

If anyone wants to argue these points please go ahead, I'd love to hear another logical and well-thought perspective that isn't fueled by NoLimits 2 fantasies or limitless money. Until then I'll consider a looping coaster by B&M to be the most logical choice.

 

[Benjamin22]

I actually don’t think S&S is totally out of the question given the fact the KD 2021 coaster is rumored to be a custom 4-D freespin. However as you mentioned Steel curtain is a very large ride and Cedar Fair maybe hesitant to work with them. Mack’s while they’re expensive, they’re similarly priced to B&Ms, I believe Copperhead strike was 26 million (excluding theming), while Banshee was 24 million.  

[silver2005]

All the S&S towers and Skyhawk would like to disagree with the notion of CF not working with S&S.  

[SonofBaconator]

3 hours ago, silver2005 said:

All the S&S towers and Skyhawk would like to disagree with the notion of CF not working with S&S.  

Those are flats though

[FUN&ONLY!]

3 hours ago, silver2005 said:

All the S&S towers and Skyhawk would like to disagree with the notion of CF not working with S&S.  

Kings Dominion is also likely getting an S&S 4D Free Spin to replace The Crypt.

[Rivertown Rider]

I do think that CF and KI are going to look at a realm of factors with the next coaster installation and if the recent chain history is any indication there are a few options.  I think they will weigh initial cost, maintenance/downtime of the existing model, and the popularity/number of riders of the existing model.  In no particular order, the types I would think are possible options:

B&M Dive: I'm not the world's biggest Valravn fan, but Yukon Striker was really good.  Dives are really popular with the general public.  Sure it wouldn't be a headliner addition but in a park with Orion, Beast, and Mystic it wouldn't necessarily have to.  I also don't think we can discount the closeness of CSF.  I would also be happy with a floorless.

RMC- No we are not getting nor do we need a conversion.  As far as the Raptor model that CGA got from a capacity standpoint that wouldn't be an option for KI.  Perhaps something that was a bigger higher capacity model might work.  With CF not having done a ground up woodie from RMC who knows if they would go that route.  With the issues they have had with SV and TT, who knows if RMC would be option.

Gerstlauer- I feel like we hear less about Hangtime because it is on the other side of the country.  I think throughput would be a concern.

Mack- I enjoyed Copperhead Strike.  Obviously the cost would probably be the most expensive of the options.  Did Carowinds get the bang for their buck that they were hoping for.  If they didn't, then I think that probably knocks out Mack.

[Benjamin22]

1 minute ago, Rivertown Rider said:

Mack- Did Carowinds get the bang for their buck that they were hoping for.  If they didn't, then I think that probably knocks out Mack.

This is an interesting point. Attendance wise I’m not so sure it did that much for their attendance. In Cedar Fairs quarterly earnings calls there wasn’t any mention of Carowinds or Copperhead strike, on the contrary there Canada’s wonderland was mentioned numerous times. Now of course they may have wanted copperhead strike to boost Fast Lane sales versus attendance. Ridership wise it was ridden 880k times, which speaks more to the capacity. Based off of Kings Islands 2014 ridership numbers that would place the ride in 9th place. Just barely ahead of The Bat but below Boo Blasters. 

[SonofBaconator]

Also remember a lot of GP grew up riding Vortex as their 1st looping coaster. Its was as important ans noatalgic to guests as The Beast is. That being said, whatever we get needs to be heavy on inversions. 

@Benjamin22 and Rivertown Rider I think KI has a bigger following than CWS does so maybe Mack would get a better reception at here. I know CF is trying to build up CWS but it there's not a whole lot of fan loyalty to that park like we have.

[FUN&ONLY!]

8 hours ago, Benjamin22 said:

This is an interesting point. Attendance wise I’m not so sure it did that much for their attendance. In Cedar Fairs quarterly earnings calls there wasn’t any mention of Carowinds or Copperhead strike, on the contrary there Canada’s wonderland was mentioned numerous times. Now of course they may have wanted copperhead strike to boost Fast Lane sales versus attendance. Ridership wise it was ridden 880k times, which speaks more to the capacity. Based off of Kings Islands 2014 ridership numbers that would place the ride in 9th place. Just barely ahead of The Bat but below Boo Blasters. 

Vortex may have actually given more rides this year than Copperhead Strike. I know Chad Showalter said Vortex gave around 100,000 more rides this year than it did last year, and going off past ridership numbers that puts us around 700k-800k riders which is comparable to Copperhead Strike. Also, keep in mind, Copperhead Strike was open from March until December while Vortex was open three fewer months. Kings Island has crazy high ridership numbers compared to Carowinds. If I recall correctly, I believe last year Diamondback, Banshee, and Mystic Timbers each had more riders than Fury 325.

[thatguyfromohio]

Vortex may have actually given more rides this year than Copperhead Strike. I know Chad Showalter said Vortex gave around 100,000 more rides this year than it did last year, and going off past ridership numbers that puts us around 700k-800k riders which is comparable to Copperhead Strike. Also, keep in mind, Copperhead Strike was open from March until December while Vortex was open three fewer months. Kings Island has crazy high ridership numbers compared to Carowinds. If I recall correctly, I believe last year Diamondback, Banshee, and Mystic Timbers each had more riders than Fury 325.

When I went to carowinds last summer, their water park draws the attention, on a Saturday, mid day, fury was walk on


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[Waltny]

21 hours ago, SonofBaconator said:

Also remember a lot of GP grew up riding Vortex as their 1st looping coaster. Its was(IS) as important and nostalgic to guests as The Beast is.

This is the understatement of forever on this forum. As some folks may or may not know I heavily covered both the Orion construction along with The Vortex deconstruction. While some fellow enthusiast pages gave me a grief over it, the GP couldnt get enough of The Vortex coverage. The messages, the requests for footage, could I score a piece of track and need to know via KI enthusiasts/fans FAR exceeded anything I experienced with Orion. I would say the fervor, excitement and energy for Vortex updates were easily 5 to 1 over Orion ones. The GP(not enthusiasts) have an idea that THEIR expectations of a suitable replacement should be met fully, somewhere along the line of being themed to Vortex if not a modern day clone. All one has to do is cruise facebook via the KISPH page as a starting point ending up over at The Vortex tribute page.   There are a few other KI centric pages that are still milking The Vortex posts with plenty of sharing and opining for the past. 

[SonofBaconator]

@Waltny I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking this. You can't just replace a defunct coaster but Vortex should be an exception.

I'm sure @VortexBFForever would agree

[Shawn Meyer]

23 hours ago, Rivertown Rider said:

B&M Dive: I'm not the world's biggest Valravn fan, but Yukon Striker was really good.  Dives are really popular with the general public.  Sure it wouldn't be a headliner addition but in a park with Orion, Beast, and Mystic it wouldn't necessarily have to.  I also don't think we can discount the closeness of CSF.  I would also be happy with a floorless.

I'm bad with abbreviations here. What is CSF?

[thatguyfromohio]

I'm bad with abbreviations here. What is CSF?

Clermont steel fabricator


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[collin.klopfstein]

13 minutes ago, Shawn Meyer said:

I'm bad with abbreviations here. What is CSF?

Clermont steel fabricators, they make b&m track, I live 2 minutes away from the place  Batavia Ohio

[Shawn Meyer]

^ Well I know about the track part. Just forgot what the abbreviation stood for.

[LintemuthStudios]

My take on a mini B&M dive coaster for The Vortex plot (excuse the crude drawing). 160 feet tall, 180 foot drop at 90 degrees into a tunnel, five inversions which would be most on a dive coaster (immelmann, vertical loop, cutback, two zero-g rolls), and two theming structures. Named Hawkeye.

Pink - Lift Hill

Red - Drop and tunnel

Blue - Inversions

Green - Theming structures

Purple - Brake run

Orange - Track

 

[collin.klopfstein]

For people who didn’t see my post on the other thread, here is copperhead strike in Vortex’s land. Fits really well, hopefully we get a custom lay out though of a Mack multi-launch. Oh yeah , and steel vengeance

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

Using the Snapchat cut filter, I was able to overlay Maverick onto The Vortex plot of land. 

 

[Snowball]

Using Photoshop, I put the entire park inside of The Vortex land plot. I think this would be a great addition to the park.