Kings Island and Cedar Point opening Mid-May

[collin.klopfstein]

Ahhh great

[Shawn Meyer]

5 hours ago, disco2000 said:

Cedar Fair just announced this morning an offering for $875 million in secured notes, which essentially means they put their parks up as collateral.  What does that mean...does it offer any clues as to when they think they may open...

What's the collateral part mean? Is that for Insurance purposes?

[PatchesC]

6 minutes ago, Shawn Meyer said:

What's the collateral part mean? Is that for Insurance purposes?

Same as when you get a car loan it's usually the collateral. If you don't repay bank takes the collateral. Pretty much a way to feel that banks can give money without losing anything in the end. Either CP will repay or bank owns the parks.

[disco2000]

29 minutes ago, Shawn Meyer said:

What's the collateral part mean? Is that for Insurance purposes?

It means they took a loan out against their properties, so if they default on these notes, they lose the parks...these creditors would be first in line to collect debt if they go bankrupt.

It is like someone taking out a small business loan that the bank doesn't want to give them, they can put their assets up (like a house) as collateral to make the deal happen.

Most of Cedar Fair notes are unsecured, as a lender takes it as a calculated risk that they will be re-paid - and CF pays a larger interest rate for these.   For example, this past June, Cedar Fair took out $500 million in unsecured notes, which means they didn't have to put up collateral for this note.

[Shawn Meyer]

^ Ohh no! That means Cedar Fair will lose their parks?

[disco2000]

5 minutes ago, Shawn Meyer said:

^ Ohh no! That means Cedar Fair will lose their parks?

If they default on these notes, yes that is a real possibility, pending any renegotiation...but what if say a Disney (or Paramount, or any one entity) purchased all these notes...could be a way to make a little money if they repay or gain parks if they don't...  Now whether any one entity can purchase is another story...

Plus, the major principal of these notes are due 2025, so how much in capital improvements do you think the parks will spend on until then...

[Shawn Meyer]

^ Sounds like they have plenty of time then to repay the loans. So in worse case scenario, If they don't open this year they're still in good shape because they don't have to repay those loans until 2025. Sounds like a safety net for the parks.

[MDMC01]

19 hours ago, collin.klopfstein said:

Ahhh great

Wow! This is actually hits me a lttle harder than Coasterstock being cancelled, mostly because June is a few months away while (comparatively speaking), Coasterstock is right around the corner. That being said, I wasn't planning on going this year as I didn't recognize a majority of the artists in this year's lineup.

[IceePirate]

3 minutes ago, Shawn Meyer said:

^ Sounds like they have plenty of time then to repay the loans. So in worse case scenario, If they don't open this year they're still in good shape because they don't have to repay those loans until 2025. Sounds like a safety net for the parks.

Having a secured bond is also another way to reduce the interest rate that they would pay on the bond. The bond is less risky and therefore would garner a lower risk level. I forget exactly what the order of payout is if a company goes bankrupt, but I think it's the following:

1. Employees

2. Taxes

3. Accounts payable in the form of asset purchases or other such items

4. Loans and other debt held by the company

5. Stockholders with first dibs given to those who have high grade stock if a company has several forms.

 

Any remaining amount should be split evenly among whatever party the money stops at, so if they only have $10 million or so after they pay employees and owe a $50 million tax bill, they'd give all $10mil to the governments split based on what state/country the tax liability is in. This being said, I believe that there is less than .1% chance of Cedar Fair going bankrupt from this unless the virus were to cause closures into the 2021 season.

[Marc3E]

If I am reading this right, this map says we should move to Phase 1 the week of May 11.

welp dewine was like “nah, we don’t do that around here” and then was like “let’s open this up”

[disco2000]

On 4/20/2020 at 10:28 AM, standbyme said:

What? Did the person who designed this map run out of all the other colors?! 

(It would be much faster to read with other colors instead of slight varying shades of green.)

Just for you LOL...a revised map and a few more colors...

[CorkscrewMcPuke]

On 4/20/2020 at 4:48 PM, disco2000 said:

or Paramount

 

[Klabergian Empire]

12 minutes ago, CorkscrewMcPuke said:

On 4/20/2020 at 4:48 PM, disco2000 said:

or Paramount

HE SAID IT!!!!! He said the cursed word!!!!

[LovinMeSomeBanshee]

Not really sure how Kentucky is in yellow on that map.  We have fewer cases per capita than any of the states around us, including Ohio, so the map saying we have to wait longer to relax social distancing guidelines seems absurd.  

Either way, I'm coming to Kings Island on opening day, social distancing guidelines in Kentucky be darned.

[disco2000]

17 minutes ago, LovinMeSomeBanshee said:

Not really sure how Kentucky is in yellow on that map.  We have fewer cases per capita than any of the states around us, including Ohio, so the map saying we have to wait longer to relax social distancing guidelines seems absurd.  

Either way, I'm coming to Kings Island on opening day, social distancing guidelines in Kentucky be darned.

And it is your "social distancing guidelines in Kentucky be darned" why Kentucky is yellow on the map - y'all can't follow simple Orders to stay home

Do keep in mind Ohio currently has a 14-day self-quarantine if you cross into Ohio from another state...so you will have to go self-isolate in a nearby hotel for 14 days before the opening if that Order is still in effect.

And what would KI implement to ensure that their guests are adhering to whatever Orders are in place at the time - do they not allow passholders with an outside-Ohio address?  Not let non-Ohio plates in?  Provide proof you self-quarantined?  So many questions...

Because certainly Nosy Neighbor Nancy will be out patrolling the parking lot to send pictures to the Governor of any violations and get the place shut down.  Just ask Hobby Lobby how their defiance of the Order worked out for them

[LovinMeSomeBanshee]

12 minutes ago, disco2000 said:

And it is your "social distancing guidelines in Kentucky be darned" why Kentucky is yellow on the map - y'all can't follow simple Orders to stay home

Do keep in mind Ohio currently has a 14-day self-quarantine if you cross into Ohio from another state...so you will have to go self-isolate in a nearby hotel for 14 days before the opening if that Order is still in effect.

And what would KI implement to ensure that their guests are adhering to whatever Orders are in place at the time - do they not allow passholders with an outside-Ohio address?  Not let non-Ohio plates in?  Provide proof you self-quarantined?  So many questions...

Because certainly Nosy Neighbor Nancy will be out patrolling the parking lot to send pictures to the Governor of any violations and get the place shut down.  Just ask Hobby Lobby how their defiance of the Order worked out for them

Actually, it's quite the opposite - Kentucky has done better at "flattening the curve" than most other states in the country.  We have been staying home.  We have closed all non-essential businesses and cancelled all organized crowd gatherings.  We also have a 14-day quarantine for all out-of-state travel.  

I highly doubt Kings Island would open if there's still a 14-day self-quarantine order still in place in Ohio.  There's absolutely no way.

[PatchesC]

48 minutes ago, LovinMeSomeBanshee said:

Not really sure how Kentucky is in yellow on that map.  We have fewer cases per capita than any of the states around us, including Ohio, so the map saying we have to wait longer to relax social distancing guidelines seems absurd.  

Either way, I'm coming to Kings Island on opening day, social distancing guidelines in Kentucky be darned.

It's based partially on when they project peak which isn't for 4 more days,  and when they project deaths to be 0 which isn't June 9th. 

[disco2000]

16 minutes ago, LovinMeSomeBanshee said:

Actually, it's quite the opposite - Kentucky has done better at "flattening the curve" than most other states in the country.  We have been staying home.  We have closed all non-essential businesses and cancelled all organized crowd gatherings.  We also have a 14-day quarantine for all out-of-state travel.  

I highly doubt Kings Island would open if there's still a 14-day self-quarantine order still in place in Ohio.  There's absolutely no way.

Well with the exception of Solid Rock Church in Ohio, the press has been saying that Kentucky folks have been more likely to violate the order and go to mass

And that is the big question - how do any Amusement parks safely open if anywhere in the Country still have self-quarantine orders?  If KI opens, many people in a neighboring state or further with stricter stay home Orders will be of your "I'm coming to Kings Island on opening day, social distancing guidelines in my state be darned" mentality. 

Does KI only allow gold passholders from Ohio in?  Do they not allow platinum passes in if KI isn't their home park?  What does Carowinds do being in two states?

Maybe your statement was being sarcastic, but it is comments like these that will have parks questioning if they risk opening and then becoming the epi-center of a new hotspot and being forced to close again because people traveled to go to KI because the park in their state is closed...  I am sure they have been having these types of discussions as part of their re-open strategy...

 

[LovinMeSomeBanshee]

1 minute ago, disco2000 said:

Well with the exception of Solid Rock Church in Ohio, the press has been saying that Kentucky folks have been more likely to violate the order and go to mass

And that is the big question - how do any Amusement parks safely open if anywhere in the Country still have self-quarantine orders?  If KI opens, many people in a neighboring state or further with stricter stay home Orders will be of your "I'm coming to Kings Island on opening day, social distancing guidelines in my state be darned" mentality. 

Does KI only allow gold passholders from Ohio in?  Do they not allow platinum passes in if KI isn't their home park?  What does Carowinds do being in two states?

Maybe your statement was being sarcastic, but it is comments like this that will have parks questioning if they risk opening and then becoming the epi-center of a new hotspot and being forced to close again because people traveled to go to KI because the park in their state is closed...

 

ONE church in Kentucky, in one tiny town, has continued to hold mass.  Our governor then instructed our state police officers to write down their license plates, forward their personal information to those individuals' county health departments and enforce an involuntary 14-day quarantine.  Beyond that, there has been no other mass gatherings.  We've had a few protests at the state capitol for the governor's press conferences, but even those people (for the most part) maintained social distancing guidelines.

[disco2000]

1 minute ago, LovinMeSomeBanshee said:

ONE church in Kentucky, in one tiny town, has continued to hold mass.  Our governor then instructed our state police officers to write down their license plates, forward their personal information to those individuals' county health departments and enforce an involuntary 14-day quarantine.  Beyond that, there has been no other mass gatherings.  We've had a few protests at the state capitol for the governor's press conferences, but even those people (for the most part) maintained social distancing guidelines.

Are you implying that the media sometimes sensationalizes their reporting

[LovinMeSomeBanshee]

2 minutes ago, disco2000 said:

Are you implying that the media sometimes sensationalizes their reporting

LOL, I think people on both sides of the aisle can agree to that.

[BeeastFarmer]

I'm not a virologist or a epidemiologist, but I can read graphs.

Our governor (KY) always talks about "flattening the curve" and uses the example of Philidelphia and St. Louis.  Philidelphia had huge spike after throwing a parade, medical facilities were overwhelmed and many people died over a short amount of time.  According to the graph, it spiked, decreased and then approached baseline quickly (zero deaths r/t the Spanish Flu.)

St. Louis learned from Philidelphia and did many of the things we are doing now.  However, a spike did not occur, so the medical facilities were not overwhelmed.  In contrast, though, the epidemic lasted much longer in St. Louis.  There was an initial curve that leveled off, then decreased, then ramped up again over a sustained amount of time before finally approaching baseline.

It would be interesting to see the death tally in both cities during the Spanish Flu.  I would like to know how many move lives were saved in St. Louis.  I have not been able to extrapolate any data on this.  @disco2000, could you try and find this out?  You seem to be able to find and interpret data.

[disco2000]

9 hours ago, BeeastFarmer said:

I'm not a virologist or a epidemiologist, but I can read graphs.

Our governor (KY) always talks about "flattening the curve" and uses the example of Philidelphia and St. Louis.  Philidelphia had huge spike after throwing a parade, medical facilities were overwhelmed and many people died over a short amount of time.  According to the graph, it spiked, decreased and then approached baseline quickly (zero deaths r/t the Spanish Flu.)

St. Louis learned from Philidelphia and did many of the things we are doing now.  However, a spike did not occur, so the medical facilities were not overwhelmed.  In contrast, though, the epidemic lasted much longer in St. Louis.  There was an initial curve that leveled off, then decreased, then ramped up again over a sustained amount of time before finally approaching baseline.

It would be interesting to see the death tally in both cities during the Spanish Flu.  I would like to know how many move lives were saved in St. Louis.  I have not been able to extrapolate any data on this.  @disco2000, could you try and find this out?  You seem to be able to find and interpret data.

I will try to keep it short for you BeeastFarmer LOL, but it is well documented the cases between those two cities, as well as the double-hump that Denver saw after relaxing standards regarding the Spanish Flu outbreak of 1918.

Philly had approximately 16,000 deaths associated with the Spanish flu; St. Louis had approximately 1,700 deaths. 

The parade was September 28th, barely 14 days after the first cases were reported in Philly.  Look at the jump Philly had by waiting weeks to start the social distancing, compared to St. Louis enacting these same policies within days of their first cases.

Contrast that to Ohio for COVID-19 that started the shut-down prior to our first case in Ohio...imagine what our numbers would be if Ohio wasn't the first to go these efforts..

Now Denver was a little different and re-opened up a little too early in 1918 and got a re-surge during the first wave of the outbreak.  The elected officials acknowledge that once re-opening starts, we will start to see an uptick again, so it is a balance of not opening up too early and have re-surge be larger than the initial surge.  I would think most companies would rather wait two weeks and be able to re-open and stay open than open two-weeks early and being open a month and then getting shut down for another two months or more...

[Marc3E]

we shouldn’t have shut everything down in the first place, change my mind...

[disco2000]

16 minutes ago, Marc3E said:

we shouldn’t have shut everything down in the first place, change my mind...

Read my post above yours...look at all the information presented in the other thread discussing corona affecting theme parks.

If we left everything open, we would have had orders of magnitude more dead.

But obviously you must be one of the click-bait, sound-bite educated forming an opinion on mis-information spouted off in February and haven't been reading everything and researching and educating yourself, so I am done trying to fill you in because obviously your mind is made up and cannot be changed...or you are just a troll trying to stir the pot on people's emotions...

[Marc3E]

Read my post above yours...look at all the information presented in the other thread discussing corona affecting theme parks.
If we left everything open, we would have had orders of magnitude more dead.
But obviously you must be one of the click-bait, sound-bite educated forming an opinion on mis-information spouted off in February and haven't been reading everything and researching and educating yourself, so I am done trying to fill you in because obviously your mind is made up and cannot be changed...or you are just a troll trying to stir the pot on people's emotions...

jesus what’d i do to you?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[disco2000]

4 minutes ago, Marc3E said:

jesus what’d i do to you?

 

Your post and tone of it says it all...it came across as you think this whole shut down thing is nonsense...convince me it wasn't your intent...and then provide the reasons and science and data you are using to formulate that viewpoint...Many posters, including myself, have provided tons of information to support our individual opinion..

If you disagree with the shutdown, that is fine and is one of the freedoms of our country, but people would like to know how you formulated your opinion...who knows maybe you present something we haven't seen before and we change our minds...

[Marc3E]

Your post and tone of it says it all...it came across as you think this whole shut down thing is nonsense...convince me it wasn't your intent...and then provide the reasons and science and data you are using to formulate that viewpoint...Many posters, including myself, have provided tons of information to support our individual opinion..

If you disagree with the shutdown, that is fine and is one of the freedoms of our country, but people would like to know how you formulated your opinion...who knows maybe you present something we haven't seen before and we change our minds...

I kind of formulated my opinion off what Sweden is doing right now as some of the only things they’ve shut down to outsiders are Nursing Homes and Hospitals (again to outsiders). but otherwise pretty much everything else is still open. sure they have a high death rate at the moment but it flattened MUCH quicker than countries that shut down as people who had it then became immune to it and therefore couldn’t get it and spread it again... then once there’s enough of those people who are immune to it, it would eventually become safe to reopen the places, that were previously closed, again... take it for what it’s worth, it’s just my opinion and you have your own, i just don’t think you should’ve gone off at me for just having my own opinion when you could’ve just simply asked for an explanation instead of yelling... on top of that i wasn’t specifically targeting you or else i would’ve quoted you specifically, therefore i still did nothing to you...

[disco2000]

25 minutes ago, Marc3E said:

I kind of formulated my opinion off what Sweden is doing right now as some of the only things they’ve shut down to outsiders are Nursing Homes and Hospitals (again to outsiders). but otherwise pretty much everything else is still open. sure they have a high death rate at the moment but it flattened MUCH quicker than countries that shut down as people who had it then became immune to it and therefore couldn’t get it and spread it again... then once there’s enough of those people who are immune to it, it would eventually become safe to reopen the places, that were previously closed, again... take it for what it’s worth, it’s just my opinion and you have your own, i just don’t think you should’ve gone off at me for just having my own opinion when you could’ve just simply asked for an explanation instead of yelling...

Fair enough - and people are watching and researching and analyzing what they are doing - they have to account for their life style, age demographics, etc. and how that compares to other countries.

Word of advice, when you have only been a member of this forum for what 12 days and post to a hot topic with a 13-word statement that comes across like it did with no explanation, you need to be prepared to defend your statement as history on this forum shows that trolls are usually those that have been here a short time that posts something with no justification...even on less hot topics like this.  Just look at the beating RedRacer got for starting a thread about being a new employee at KI...

Plus unlike an actual conversation, a short post can sometimes be interpreted or taken different ways.  Content and context is everything, as well as length of time on the forum where people can develop an opinion on someone based on their posting history. 

If you had started with that analysis, my response would have been different or not even one at all.  I assure you that if it wasn't me, someone else would have responded with something similar based on your post.  Re-read it and you can see how someone could take exception to it.

Sorry for jumping your case.  In my book we are cool now - you provided how you formulated your opinion and that it wasn't just some off the cuff response to invoke a response.

Carry on...

[Marc3E]

Fair enough - and people are watching and researching and analyzing what they are doing - they have to account for their life style, age demographics, etc. and how that compares to other countries.
Word of advice, when you have only been a member of this forum for what 12 days and post to a hot topic with a 13-word statement that comes across like it did with no explanation, you need to be prepared to defend your statement as history on this forum shows that trolls are usually those that have been here a short time that posts something with no justification...even on less hot topics like this.  Just look at the beating RedRacer got for starting a thread about being a new employee at KI...
Plus unlike an actual conversation, a short post can sometimes be interpreted or taken different ways.  Content and context is everything, as well as length of time on the forum where people can develop an opinion on someone based on their posting history. 
If you had started with that analysis, my response would have been different or not even one at all.  I assure you that if it wasn't me, someone else would have responded with something similar based on your post.  Re-read it and you can see how someone could take exception to it.
Sorry for jumping your case.  In my book we are cool now - you provided how you formulated your opinion and that it wasn't just some off the cuff response to invoke a response.
Carry on...

thx man, yeah i’m new to the forum and have mainly been in the Orion Construction Photos section, you’re cool too m8!