Another long lost proposed Kings Island Wooden coaster!

[KIghostguy]

Thank you @IndyGuy4KI! If Gforce is really confident that his article is totally truthful and wants us to take it seriously, he should provide the sources he used. The standards we use for most should be applicable to all.

[gforce1994]

Well, much of the info was discussed in Coasterstock 2015. Furthermore, it’s been well known that a near recreation of the Aeroplane was in the works.

[Phantom Theater]

17 hours ago, gforce1994 said:

 

What a surprise to see a topic I started 12 years ago quoted in 2020, lol. I was only 12 and a new enthusiast (and quite a rocky start for me on these forums to say the least...). I say we still bring back the Shooting Star! That coaster creation in the article looks like something that would fit nicely in Holiday World

[gforce1994]

8 minutes ago, Phantom Theater said:

What a surprise to see a topic I started 12 years ago quoted in 2020, lol. I was only 12 and a new enthusiast (and quite a rocky start for me on these forums to say the least...). I say we still bring back the Shooting Star! That coaster creation in the article looks like something that would fit nicely in Holiday World

It would fit nicely indeed. BTW, here’s a POV of the Star.

[gforce1994]

The thing I wonder is how Dinn’s version of the ride would have looked considering how many of Dinn’s coasters featured underbanked turns that created laterals.

[silver2005]

If it would have turned out anything like Twister at Knoebels, which is a glorious lateral machine, then I'd be a-okay with it.  Most CCI's are heavy in laterals as well.  

I wonder if it would have been RMCed or not considering KI is probably the best at taking care of wooden coasters in the entire CF chain.  Depends on how big it would have been, too.  If we're going by the John Allen line of thought concerning height, anything below 120 ft might have lasted a while.  

[gforce1994]

1 hour ago, silver2005 said:

If it would have turned out anything like Twister at Knoebels, which is a glorious lateral machine, then I'd be a-okay with it.  Most CCI's are heavy in laterals as well.  

I wonder if it would have been RMCed or not considering KI is probably the best at taking care of wooden coasters in the entire CF chain.  Depends on how big it would have been, too.  If we're going by the John Allen line of thought concerning height, anything below 120 ft might have lasted a while.  

I think it would have been an excellent ride. I think the ride would have used the 2 bench PTC’s since those could handle turns better at the time the ride would have been built.

[gforce1994]

Speaking of a proposed ride, has anyone heard of ....

[KIfan73]

Very interesting, if true.  I thought for a long time that Swan Lake would make a great setting for a coaster (that is while keeping it an actual lake; not draining it before hand).

[gforce1994]

3 minutes ago, KIfan73 said:

Very interesting, if true.  I thought for a long time that Swan Lake would make a great setting for a coaster (that is while keeping it an actual lake; not draining it before hand).

It would have been the most interesting ride. They tried to resurrect the concept, but I think the threat from Kentucky Kingdom was the final nail in the coffin.

[Shaggy]

22 minutes ago, gforce1994 said:

Speaking of a proposed ride, has anyone heard of ....

I know of another proposed coaster from the Paramount Days that never made it past the concept/rendering phase.

I never saw blueprints, never heard any official stats, never saw concept art... but I know for a fact it was an idea in the works.  

But since I don't have anything to prove it, does that mean the standards here dictate it cannot be discussed?

Now - don't read that facetiously - its a serious question.  

 

[TombraiderTy]

2 minutes ago, Shaggy said:

I know of another proposed coaster from the Paramount Days that never made it past the concept/rendering phase.

I never saw blueprints, never heard any official stats, never saw concept art... but I know for a fact it was an idea in the works.  

But since I don't have anything to prove it, does that mean the standards here dictate it cannot be discussed?

Now - don't read that facetiously - its a serious question.  

In my opinion, you've already been clear in the fact that you've heard of a concept but don't have physical proof. You're not misleading people by creating a rendering and passing it off as the actual unbuilt ride. I'm interested in hearing what the coaster is.

Also does anyone remember that Paramount survey years ago that included the pixelated concept art for the Mrs. Puff's Boating School and the Addams Family Reunion Coaster? I would have loved to have seen either of those built, but I don't think their theming would have held up... especially after the IPs would have likely been removed.

[gforce1994]

8 minutes ago, Shaggy said:

I know of another proposed coaster from the Paramount Days that never made it past the concept/rendering phase.

I never saw blueprints, never heard any official stats, never saw concept art... but I know for a fact it was an idea in the works.  

But since I don't have anything to prove it, does that mean the standards here dictate it cannot be discussed?

Now - don't read that facetiously - its a serious question.  

 

If we’re both thinking of the same coaster, that would have been an amazing ride.

[Gordon Bombay]

14 minutes ago, Shaggy said:

I know of another proposed coaster from the Paramount Days that never made it past the concept/rendering phase.

I never saw blueprints, never heard any official stats, never saw concept art... but I know for a fact it was an idea in the works.  

But since I don't have anything to prove it, does that mean the standards here dictate it cannot be discussed?

Now - don't read that facetiously - its a serious question.  

 

My vote counts for nothing, but I'd love to hear it and given your collection/body of work/reputation—I'd say it's most definitely worth hearing. 

Speaking as a published author, former/pseudo-active journalist, and given our mutual friends, I'd trust you. Especially since you're framing it as something you heard.

[KIghostguy]

4 minutes ago, TombraiderTy said:

Also does anyone remember that Paramount survey years ago that included the pixelated concept art for the Mrs. Puff's Boating School and the Addams Family Reunion Coaster? I would have loved to have seen either of those built, but I don't think their theming would have held up... especially after the IPs would have likely been removed.

The Addams Family coaster was a real concept. It ran into licensing issues and the idea was scrapped. The plans did not make it that far.

[Shaggy]

Well, my saying that was not meant as a "tease" of information.

Rather, I was seriously asking a question because - IMO - the direction (and tone) of this board seems to have changed in recent months.

Traditionally, KIC forums have always been an open forum of collective ideas, experiences, varied knowledge levels and ideas.  That's what made it fun to post and read.

If that's no longer the case - I'd like to know.  

[Shaggy]

26 minutes ago, KIghostguy said:

The Addams Family coaster was a real concept. It ran into licensing issues and the idea was scrapped. The plans did not make it that far.

The licensing issue, as I understand, was that Charles Addams widow (Marilyn Matthews Miller) obtained the rights after his death.  She held the copyright tightly, and passed away in 2002 leaving it in limbo.

The Addams Family Coaster concept has been posted about a number of times on this board.  The concept was based on using a Gerstlauer Euro-Fighter coaster in a dark ride format - complete with a mansion facade and show building behind.

Separately from that fact, the rumor has always been that when Paramount passed, the concept was - in part - reused by Gerstlauer at Dollywood for Mystery Mine.

Over time I've heard people (outside KI) say the coaster was plotted for Coney Mall, or Rivertown etc etc etc.  But I understood it never made it that far enough in planning to be specc'd for the park.

The coaster was to be heavily themed - and the "story" was based on an Uncle Fester experiment gone wrong.

[Joshua]

28 minutes ago, KIghostguy said:

The Addams Family coaster was a real concept. It ran into licensing issues and the idea was scrapped. The plans did not make it that far.

Were the complications from MGM owning the television series and/or WB later producing the made for TV movie, Addams Family Reunion? Also, another person owns It and Thing, and once tried to sue Paramount over it. (Source)

EDIT: Shaggy beat me to the punch. When was this coaster proposed? I always assumed it was the 90s, but it sounds like it was in the early 2000s. 

Side note that I think is interesting. The first Addams Family movie wasn't originally a Paramount film. It was produced by Orion Pictures, but the company was struggling at the time and the film was sold to Paramount.  (Source)

 

[disco2000]

In my experience, rumor mills often have a bit of truth in them.  It is human nature to want to share "confidential" or juicy information.

Obviously you have to take into account the source of said information, but in an organization, official communication focuses on messages the company wants to deliver and at a time management feels is right. The reason the rumor mill plays such an important role is that it delivers the information employees care about, provides the details employees want to know, and is delivered at the time employees are interested.  Further, it is amazing how many times an employee hears of an upcoming or pending change at their work from a guest or customer before they themselves are told of it officially through their work...how does that stuff get out...I can assure you there are members of this forum that found something out about a change coming to KI and shared the rumor with an employee before the employee heard about it from KI...

The key is to decipher and figure out who is saying it and their intent.  Is it someone saying something (even maybe made up) because they are seeking their 15 minutes of fame and wants to be the first to mention it...or is it a legitimate source simply wanting to share their knowledge...once that is figured out, one can determine how much credibility to put into the statement...

[IndyGuy4KI]

24 minutes ago, Shaggy said:

Well, my saying that was not meant as a "tease" of information.

Rather, I was seriously asking a question because - IMO - the direction (and tone) of this board seems to have changed in recent months.

Traditionally, KIC forums have always been an open forum of collective ideas, experiences, varied knowledge levels and ideals.  That's what made it fun to post and read.

If that's no longer the case - I'd like to know.  

We still are an open forum. We would love for you to make a new thread to share this information.

[KIghostguy]

29 minutes ago, Joshua said:

When was this coaster proposed? I always assumed it was the 90s, but it sounds like it was in the early 2000s. 

It was at some point between 2003 and 2006. Craig Ross was general manager at Kings Island, but it was after the time Anthony Esparza left his position at Paramount Parks Design and Entertainment.

[TombraiderTy]

45 minutes ago, KIghostguy said:

The Addams Family coaster was a real concept. It ran into licensing issues and the idea was scrapped. The plans did not make it that far.

I wasn't questioning whether it was real or not - both the Addams Family and the Boating School were real concepts and had real concept art attached to them. They were both included in surveys Paramount publicly sent out in the early 2000s, and I know I've seen the super pixelated pieces of art floating around online before.

Here's a forum discussing one of the surveys, from 16 years ago: https://coasterbuzz.com/Forums/Topic/new-paramount-parks-ride-survey. It includes the boating school (I guess it was officially titled SpongeBob Squarepants: Crash Course Boating School) and a few other ideas, like Mission: Impossible and Soundwave (which rumor was would be a retheme of Flight of Fear). Unfortunately none of the artwork was posted in that topic, but there's some descriptions and opinions of the concepts in the comments.

[Gordon Bombay]

4 minutes ago, TombraiderTy said:

...and Soundwave (which rumor was would be a retheme of Flight of Fear). Unfortunately none of the artwork was posted in that topic, but there's some descriptions and opinions of the concepts in the comments.

If I recall, the artwork kept the flying saucer as like a "cool, random, what, woah" thing. 

[Shaggy]

38 minutes ago, KIghostguy said:

It was at some point between 2003 and 2006. Craig Ross was general manager at Kings Island, but it was after the time Anthony Esparza left his position at Paramount Parks Design and Entertainment.

I was personally told about the Addams concept in mid-January 2003 when I was at KI and toured Delirium and SDATHC while under construction.  I photo documented the day, but was asked to not take pictures while in the Admin Offices...  lets just say I learned, and saw a lot with my own two eyes.

 

[SonofBaconator]

I wonder how the alleged Addams family coaster would've changed when Cedar Fair took over. Also it would've given us 4 dark rides which is a cool thought

[Joshua]

The Addams Family Coaster is one of the great "What Ifs" to me. I love the franchise, I love "creepy! kooky! spooky!" theming, and I think a coaster that embodied all of the above would've spectacular (or as the great Vincent Prince would have said, "spooktacular"). 

I've also never understood why they didn't try to theme anything to Mission: Impossible. I know the first movie was criticized as being too hard to follow (which I don't get as it was fairly straightforward and is still one of my favorites in the series), but it was also the third highest grossing movie of 1996. Additionally, Mission: Impossible II was the second highest grossing movie of 2000. 

Star Trek was also at a highpoint at the time, with the release of First Contact and the popularity of DS9 and Voyager. It's a shame there wasn't more done with that in the majority of the parks. 

[CoasterJack]

3 minutes ago, Joshua said:

The Addams Family Coaster is one of the great "What Ifs" to me. I love the franchise, I love "creepy! kooky! spooky!" theming, and I think a coaster that embodied all of the above would've spectacular (or as the great Vincent Prince would have said, "spooktacular"). 

I've also never understood why they didn't try to theme anything to Mission: Impossible. I know the first movie was criticized as being too hard to follow (which I don't get as it was fairly straightforward and is still one of my favorites in the series), but it was also the third highest grossing movie of 1996. Additionally, Mission: Impossible II was the second highest grossing movie of 2000. 

Star Trek was also at a highpoint at the time, with the release of First Contact and the popularity of DS9 and Voyager. It's a shame there wasn't more done with that in the majority of the parks. 

Agreed! Sometimes I wonder if in an alternate timeline where paramount continued to own the park up to today, how much the park would be different from today. Would we have more dark rides and heavily themed attractions, or would paramount add more first of its kinda coasters? And would we have a B&M by now?

[Gordon Bombay]

1 minute ago, CoasterJack said:

Agreed! Sometimes I wonder if in an alternate timeline where paramount continued to own the park up to today, how much the park would be different from today. Would we have more dark rides and heavily themed attractions, or would paramount add more first of its kinda coasters? And would we have a B&M by now?

Stay tuned. @teenageninja and I have something in the works along the lines of “alternate history.”

[Joshua]

18 minutes ago, CoasterJack said:

Agreed! Sometimes I wonder if in an alternate timeline where paramount continued to own the park up to today, how much the park would be different from today. Would we have more dark rides and heavily themed attractions, or would paramount add more first of its kinda coasters? And would we have a B&M by now?

I think things would have been better for Paramount Parks had Viacom not purchased the studio and its assets. There might've been a heavier push on rides based on movies with genuine theming, more along the lines of Top Gun as opposed to Face/Off and Drop Zone, which were merely name-drops with nothing in the way of theming.  

Granted, compared to Universal and Disney, Paramount didn't have as many ride-worthy IPs in the 90s. At the time, they were known for their adult thrillers and Lorne Michaels-produced comedies such as Wayne's World, Tommy Boy, and Coneheads. Apart from Star Trek and Mission: Impossible, the only major IP I can think of that maybe, and I mean maybe, could've made a ride was the Jack Ryan series (The Hunt for Red October, Patriot Games, etc.). The Saint too, but that's probably a stretch.

Today they would have had Transformers, G.I. Joe, Ninja Turtles, The Terminator, Cloverfield, Paranormal Activity, Interstellar, and Sonic the Hedgehog.

[gforce1994]

1 hour ago, Joshua said:

I think things would have been better for Paramount Parks had Viacom not purchased the studio and its assets. There might've been a heavier push on rides based on movies with genuine theming, more along the lines of Top Gun as opposed to Face/Off and Drop Zone, which were merely name-drops with nothing in the way of theming.  

Granted, compared to Universal and Disney, Paramount didn't have as many ride-worthy IPs in the 90s. At the time, they were known for their adult thrillers and Lorne Michaels-produced comedies such as Wayne's World, Tommy Boy, and Coneheads. Apart from Star Trek and Mission: Impossible, the only major IP I can think of that maybe, and I mean maybe, could've made a ride was the Jack Ryan series (The Hunt for Red October, Patriot Games, etc.). The Saint too, but that's probably a stretch.

Today they would have had Transformers, G.I. Joe, Ninja Turtles, The Terminator, Cloverfield, Paranormal Activity, Interstellar, and Sonic the Hedgehog.

Paramount had the rights, but charged the park to use those rights. That’s why Top Gun was found at most of the parks (nearly all), because the cost for the parks was relatively low.