Incident at Kings Island 5/22/21

[disco2000]

4 minutes ago, King Ding Dong said:

@dtk1378 That is a good point, kids do not typically have ID that includes their age until it is time for a drivers permit/license.  I do believe the pre-k pass at the other parks does require a birth certificate or similar, so it could be done but communicating that to the public would be difficult.  
 

I am still not convinced a chaperone policy is necessary or would have a significant impact.  

 

And because of the age limit, no ID equals no admission LOL...

People are way overthinking how a park will know the age of someone...implementation and reality are different though.  Carding guests will bottleneck up admissions even more.

The bigger issue is how do you address the policy within the park itself...we all know parents would simply walk in with the kid and turn around and leave...so do kids wondering around the park without parents get stopped by security and a call made to the parents to meet them in 5 minutes at the front of the park to see if the parents meet up from outside the park or within?

Are kids allowed to be in a line for a ride without parents?  Or food?  Or restroom?

Can underage employees work there without their parent next to them LOL?

If a chaperone policy is implemented, these are much bigger components of said policy that need to be addressed than the "how will they know if they are a kid or not"...

[coaster sally]

1 minute ago, disco2000 said:

And because of the age limit, no ID equals no admission LOL...

People are way overthinking how a park will know the age of someone...implementation and reality are different though.  Carding guests will bottleneck up admissions even more.

The bigger issue is how do you address the policy within the park itself...we all know parents would simply walk in with the kid and turn around and leave...so do kids wondering around the park without parents get stopped by security and a call made to the parents to meet them in 5 minutes at the front of the park to see if the parents meet up from outside the park or within?

Are kids allowed to be in a line for a ride without parents?  Or food?  Or restroom?

Can underage employees work there without their parent next to them LOL?

If a chaperone policy is implemented, these are much bigger components of said policy that need to be addressed than the "how will they know if they are a kid or not"...

You need to think as a deterrent.  Takes less than a minute to pull into the drop off area and takes probably 20 minutes to park and walk to the entrance and go in, maybe more on a busy day.

[King Ding Dong]

8 minutes ago, coaster sally said:

SFWoA may still be around.......When people started using it as daycare attendance plummeted 

I understand the point but I think the issues were a bit more complex.  Starting with insufficient park infrastructure to handle the attendance effectively.  Sounds kind of similar.
 

If the park truly believes they have adequate staffing, as indicated by PR’s statement, then the situation is headed downhill and fast.  

[coaster sally]

4 minutes ago, King Ding Dong said:

I understand the point but I think the issues were a bit more complex.  Starting with insufficient park infrastructure to handle the attendance effectively.  Sounds kind of similar.
 

If the park truly believes they have adequate staffing, as indicated by PR’s statement, then the situation is headed downhill and fast.  

Key to overcoming problems is admitting there is a problem.  Like I said earlier, anyone of us could be in PR when we are hyping a new giga or when thelings are going great.  Tony Clark went into witness protection after opening weekend at CP.  As a whole CF struggles across the parks in the pr department when it's not all rosey.   

[RedSummit20]

This has not been the first fight at Ki im sure. I think people are speculating what will happen a little to much. imo 

[disco2000]

Just now, coaster sally said:

You need to think as a deterrent.  Takes less than a minute to pull into the drop off area and takes probably 20 minutes to park and walk to the entrance and go in, maybe more on a busy day.

Exactly, and if it is simply a deterrent with no teeth, then it is back to no enforcement of policies that gets them in these situations.

They make announcements about no smoking, ride ops will announce put the phone away if they see one out on a lift hill, signs are posted about no videos and no line jumping, yet how many times are those policies really enforced?  Not often.

They should make an announcement to the violator with the phone out and if they do not put it away, stop the lift hill, go up and take the phone and toss it over the shoulder...that will stop it LOL.

But seriously, I rarely see them stop a ride when the cell phone comes out.  And even less that security is called.  And I have witnessed times where security is called and the person just gets a talking to, but a name isn't taken or anything.  Saw same dude later that day take phone out on ride, announcement was said, security talked to him and he was on his way again.

Until people are tossed out and word gets out that they mean business and enforce their policies, these incidents will continue to happen.

Until then, all of their existing policies are simply deterrent in nature...

[coaster sally]

SIX is strong in security measures.  

Six is light years ahead in tech and security.  Look at mobile food ordering.  I have personally witnessed them holding a train from unlocking till security came.

[King Ding Dong]

5 minutes ago, disco2000 said:

They should make an announcement to the violator with the phone out and if they do not put it away, stop the lift hill, go up and take the phone and toss it over the shoulder...that will stop it LOL.

Still think taping the phone to the track would be the best deterrent.  That way everyone on the train can feel the consequences.  

[disco2000]

People can say all they want about KK, but when they put out a statement like this and gets media attention, it stops...Will we ever see CF post a pic of a banned person and say don't be like him LOL...

https://www.wave3.com/story/35658459/kentucky-kingdom-shares-photo-of-now-banned-coaster-rider-with-his-phone/

And for those interested, here is the KK chaperone policy and make sure to read the last one (would CF ever state a refund)...

https://www.kentuckykingdom.com/policies-and-services/

Our Policy:  Kentucky Kingdom welcomes families and guests of all ages. It is the intention of this policy to enlist the cooperation of parents and other adults responsible for children to ensure that our park continues to provide a safe and enjoyable experience for all. Responsibility for children attending the park rests with the parents/guardian/assigned chaperone, not with Kentucky Kingdom personnel. Details of the policy are as follows:

• Guests aged 15 and under must be accompanied by an adult chaperone.
• Guests with a chaperone who cannot provide identification proving they are at least 16 years of age will not be permitted entry.
• Kentucky Kingdom considers chaperones as a parent, guardian, or other supervising adult age 21 and over with a valid ID, including a photograph and date of birth. Valid types of identification include driver's license, non-driver ID card, passport, visa or military ID.
• Each adult chaperone can accompany up to 6 guests aged 15 and under.
• The chaperone must be present at the time of entry and remain within the park for the entire duration of the party's visit. To further clarify, for sake of convenience, the chaperone does not need to accompany the entire party for the entire time.
• Guests aged 15 and under should have the telephone number of their chaperone.
• Organized and ticketed group events, such as school, church, corporate, summer camp, sports, and other pre-scheduled group visits are exempt from the policy as these groups have established chaperone policies and practices already in place.
• Identification will be checked at the park entrance and the policy will be enforced throughout the park by management and security. Once in the park, management and security may request youths to identify their supervising adult if found out of compliance with the park's code of conduct.
• The chaperone must be present at the time of entry and remain within the park for the entire duration of the party's visit, but does not need to accompany the entire party for the entire time. Management and security may request youths to identify their supervising adult if found out of compliance with the park's code of conduct. If necessary, park management or security will contact or seek to locate the chaperone. We will accompany the guest until their chaperone is located.

2021 season pass holders affected by the new Adult Chaperone Policy may request a refund for any 2021 season pass purchased prior to May 22. Refunds must be requested no later than May 31. To request a refund, visit KentuckyKingdom.com/ChaperoneRefundRequest.

[King Ding Dong]

• Guests with a chaperone who cannot provide identification proving they are at least 16 years of age will not be permitted entry.

I am confused by this bullet. The next bullet states the chaperone must be 21.  So why must the guest prove they are 16 if they are with a valid chaperone?  

[MoreFogPlease]

2 minutes ago, King Ding Dong said:

 

• Guests with a chaperone who cannot provide identification proving they are at least 16 years of age will not be permitted entry.

I am confused by this bullet. The next bullet states the chaperone must be 21.  So why must the guest prove they are 16 if they are with a valid chaperone?  

I assume that's supposed to say "without"

[ldhudsonjr]

People keep using the word daycare....How many 14-15 year olds did all you guys know that went to daycare? Once you're that age going somewhere is just called "doing something".

[JohnS502]

I have requested a refund on my 4 season passes due to this nonsense. If they can't ensure my family's safety, then I'm not bringing them.  Of course they refuse to even entertain the thought of issuing a refund, so I'll be looking into a class action suit.

[coaster sally]

7 minutes ago, ldhudsonjr said:

People keep using the word daycare....How many 14-15 year olds did all you guys know that went to daycare? Once you're that age going somewhere is just called "doing something".

this isn't the 70's or 80's........Kids go out and raise hell nowadays.

[FUN&ONLY!]

I can only imagine if a chaperone policy were to be implemented the crowds at the main gate because the employees would have to ID everyone. They can’t just make an assumption that someone is so and so years old. If people forget their ID’s, then they will go crazy. The same people complaining about the incident on Saturday would then be complaining about how it takes hours to enter the park. Also, the employees who work scanning passes would have a really hard time enforcing this policy because I know people would be upset.

[BeeastFarmer]

10 minutes ago, ldhudsonjr said:

People keep using the word daycare....How many 14-15 year olds did all you guys know that went to daycare? Once you're that age going somewhere is just called "doing something".

Have you seen videos of the fights?  Children in the age of 14-15 should have the ability to control impulses and know that actions have consquences.  Those children did not.  If it happens again, maybe they should be put in a daycare and treated like a 3 year old who has poor impulse control.

[ldhudsonjr]

Just now, coaster sally said:

this isn't the 70's or 80's........Kids go out and raise hell nowadays.

Uh....how much do you know about the 70's and 80's? Also, I'm not that old thank you very much! lol. No idea why you'd assume that.

I really don't think highschool kids should have to bring their mom to go to Kings Island just because Cedar Fair has completely botched the first 3 weeks of the season. The individuals who caused this are of course at fault for their own actions, but some of the responsibility here absolutely goes to the park.

[FUN&ONLY!]

12 minutes ago, JohnS502 said:

I have requested a refund on my 4 season passes due to this nonsense. If they can't ensure my family's safety, then I'm not bringing them.  Of course they refuse to even entertain the thought of issuing a refund, so I'll be looking into a class action suit.

Unfortunately, you agreed to a huge list of terms and conditions when you bought the season passes. That long list of terms and conditions probably includes that the passes are non refundable.

[King Ding Dong]

1 hour ago, coaster sally said:

this isn't the 70's or 80's........Kids go out and raise hell nowadays.

My friends and I raised plenty of hell in the 70s and 80s.  Fortunately the statute of limitations has passed.  

Anecdotally, I don’t think behavior is all that different we just have technology to capture it and talk about it 24/7 now.  

EDIT: Come to think of it, but we even had a theme song in 1978

 

[Browntggrr]

The chaperone policy on paper is one thing, properly implemented is another.  We all saw what "mask police" have done during covid and the altercations that followed, now there will be "chaperone police" at a park?  I would be very upset & quite miffed if some random guest accused my kid of not having/ needing a chaperone.  Accusations don't make for a fun day.  Not to mention the chaperone policy was implemented with the idea that the chaperone would not allow incidents like this to happen.  In today's world, "adult" is more about how one acts than their actual age and many time those that are of adult age act worse than kids.....

Whatever the park decides (and there is a good chance we will never officially hear about it), it cannot be a knee-jerk reaction.  Simply adding more security isn't always the answer.  Everyone knows that a video camera is in the pocket of most people and there are security cameras everywhere and in incidents that happened at KI still happen.  Even with security present the incident continued.  People no longer have any accountability for their actions and have zero respect for others or those people meant to keep the peace.

Perhaps a slower, less obvious approach would be to have more communication/ radios between all employees to the powers that be.  If security/ managers were made aware of incidents as they happen their presence in real time (as opposed to 10 minutes after) could be the deterrent needed. 

Even a step further would be to have those in a high-level position use a notebook/ iPad to review video with offenders. 

Perhaps a few big screens showing all the park security cameras with live video feeds at the park entrance as a reminder that big brother is always watching?

I'm not sure if there are any perfect answers.

[HandsUp]

Seems like a perfect storm of events. It was massively crowded in part due to bussed in kids with no supervision in end of school year mania mode. It was clear as of last week that this crowded environment with passive and overwhelmed staff leads to a lawless situation where guests realize they can more or less get away with anything. Just in a few hours last week I saw multiple instances of vaping both nicotine and reefer (this doesn't bother me), but I also smelled cigs all over the place. There was also rampant line jumping which isn't cool at all-but what is a law-abiding guest going to do? It's not our job to police bad behavior-it is the park's job-and that was not happening.

I was a kid in the 80s and 90s and believe me-kids were just as bad then as they are now. So all this pearl-clutching about 'kids these days and the fall of society' is mis-placed. If this had happened in '89, it would have been witnessed by few, spread as a rumor for a time, and then forgotten. This doesn't excuse the act, but we could use some perspective. It definitely doesn't warrant a chaperone policy which will just punish the innocent. As mentioned, being a teen/pre-teen and free to roam in KI is absolutely awesome. It has motivated me to share the park with my own kids. 

If the sole priority is to get as many people as possible into the park(via cheap passes, group discounts, etc.), there is going to be a point of negative returns in the form of both extreme incidents like this as well as the overall guest experience. 

 

 

[Oldschool75]

2 hours ago, disco2000 said:

People can say all they want about KK, but when they put out a statement like this and gets media attention, it stops...Will we ever see CF post a pic of a banned person and say don't be like him LOL...

https://www.wave3.com/story/35658459/kentucky-kingdom-shares-photo-of-now-banned-coaster-rider-with-his-phone/

And for those interested, here is the KK chaperone policy and make sure to read the last one (would CF ever state a refund)...

https://www.kentuckykingdom.com/policies-and-services/

Our Policy:  Kentucky Kingdom welcomes families and guests of all ages. It is the intention of this policy to enlist the cooperation of parents and other adults responsible for children to ensure that our park continues to provide a safe and enjoyable experience for all. Responsibility for children attending the park rests with the parents/guardian/assigned chaperone, not with Kentucky Kingdom personnel. Details of the policy are as follows:

• Guests aged 15 and under must be accompanied by an adult chaperone.
• Guests with a chaperone who cannot provide identification proving they are at least 16 years of age will not be permitted entry.
• Kentucky Kingdom considers chaperones as a parent, guardian, or other supervising adult age 21 and over with a valid ID, including a photograph and date of birth. Valid types of identification include driver's license, non-driver ID card, passport, visa or military ID.
• Each adult chaperone can accompany up to 6 guests aged 15 and under.
• The chaperone must be present at the time of entry and remain within the park for the entire duration of the party's visit. To further clarify, for sake of convenience, the chaperone does not need to accompany the entire party for the entire time.
• Guests aged 15 and under should have the telephone number of their chaperone.
• Organized and ticketed group events, such as school, church, corporate, summer camp, sports, and other pre-scheduled group visits are exempt from the policy as these groups have established chaperone policies and practices already in place.
• Identification will be checked at the park entrance and the policy will be enforced throughout the park by management and security. Once in the park, management and security may request youths to identify their supervising adult if found out of compliance with the park's code of conduct.
• The chaperone must be present at the time of entry and remain within the park for the entire duration of the party's visit, but does not need to accompany the entire party for the entire time. Management and security may request youths to identify their supervising adult if found out of compliance with the park's code of conduct. If necessary, park management or security will contact or seek to locate the chaperone. We will accompany the guest until their chaperone is located.

2021 season pass holders affected by the new Adult Chaperone Policy may request a refund for any 2021 season pass purchased prior to May 22. Refunds must be requested no later than May 31. To request a refund, visit KentuckyKingdom.com/ChaperoneRefundRequest.

That last one is a joke. That is where I believe these kids came from this past weekend. They were with the bussed in crowd. 

[BoddaH1994]

Cincinnati.com: After fights, one amusement park adopted a chaperone policy. Is that next for Kings Island?

[PatchesC]

3 hours ago, coaster sally said:

You can visually tell if someone is say 14 and younger.  When someone tries to bring a child in and claim they are 3 and should get in free a admissions person generally ask the child for their birthday

Teen years aren't that easy to identify, my 12yo has been mistaken for 15 without makeup. 

Don't most schools issue school ID now? Obviously anyone with an elementary ID isn't a teen. Middle/High school it gets jumbled. Even when I got my daughters season pass I just put in her info, there was no age verification. If they go that route, plenty will try to create a new passholder account with false information to skirt the rule unless everyone has to proof Bday with a new pass come 2022 pass time. 

[FUN&ONLY!]

32 minutes ago, Oldschool75 said:

That last one is a joke. That is where I believe these kids came from this past weekend. They were with the bussed in crowd. 

If the troublemakers were bussed in, a chaperone policy would probably not have stopped the fighting. Kings Island needs to let private groups know that there are consequences for their actions, and they should probably punish whatever groups sent the troublemakers on Saturday.

[AnyPancakes]

2 hours ago, King Ding Dong said:

If the park truly believes they have adequate staffing, as indicated by PR’s statement, then the situation is headed downhill and fast.  

They don’t believe it. It’s why the started offering $15 an hour four days ago. They knew this **** was going to happen and didn’t try to head it off until it reached a boiling point. 

2 hours ago, JohnS502 said:

If they can't ensure my family's safety, then I'm not bringing them.  Of course they refuse to even entertain the thought of issuing a refund, so I'll be looking into a class action suit.

The easies way to be safe is to not get in a fight. If your family can’t do that then this is t on Kings Island. 
 

For those of you that think chaperones are going to make things better you know darn good and well they will mess it up. This is the place that sometimes takes 5 plus minutes to put some chili and cheese on a hot dog. There is no way they could make this work. 

[disco2000]

13 minutes ago, FUN&ONLY! said:

If the troublemakers were bussed in, a chaperone policy would probably not have stopped the fighting. Kings Island needs to let private groups know that there are consequences for their actions, and they should probably punish whatever groups sent the troublemakers on Saturday.

Unfortunately, it is the same argument people are making against a chaperone policy - people claim why create a policy that punishes all the well behaved teens....

So in this instance, if it were a group, say for example Jeffersontown High School and KI bans that high school from ever attending as a group, isn't that punishing all future kids from that school, and this doesn't prevent those same kids involved from visiting KI as an individual or with another group...

So what is the proper punishment for a group and does it apply to the individuals?

But KI should take a page out of KK book, they should publicly state they are aware of who the troublemakers were and banned them from the park...or give a glimpse into some of the measures they are taking to make people feel safer and not rely on the overused buzz phrase cliche "does not align with our core values" statement...

Everyday that goes silent hoping it disappears just fuels the fire of folks saying KI is unsafe.

In the digital age, this story has been republished all around the world and the silence on the park is deafening... 

[IndyGuy4KI]

3 minutes ago, AnyPancakes said:

They knew this **** was going to happen and didn’t try to head it off until it reached a boiling point. 

This is the place that sometimes takes 5 plus minutes to put some chili and cheese on a hot dog. There is no way they could make this work. 

Can the park do anything you find acceptable? 

[disco2000]

20 minutes ago, AnyPancakes said:

The easies way to be safe is to not get in a fight. If your family can’t do that then this is t on Kings Island. 
 

Did you not see any of the videos from that night or hear stories?

When a fight among a big group happens out in the open and you happen to be stuck between them or in a queue, there isn't much you can do as a family, especially in the middle of a queue.  Kinda hard to disperse in the confined area, plus people behind you trying to get in closer to the action to see what is going on.

You don't have to be part of a fight to have someone shoved into you or your kid or take a wild punch that the person missed their target and gets you in the face instead...

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

54 minutes ago, BoddaH1994 said:

Cincinnati.com: After fights, one amusement park adopted a chaperone policy. Is that next for Kings Island?

It won't let me view it as it is only for subscribers even in an ignoto window.