50th Anniversary Updates

[PKIDelirium]

That was the original exit (to the left) and then a tables area. Exit was reconfigured, oh geez, I don't even remember when that happened, the tables area was taken out and made even with the midway in, I believe 2011 when the pavement was replaced with pavers.

[brenthodge]

I’m not sure if they are doing themselves a favor posting these historical photos that show how much better the park looked back then. Seeing these again illustrates to me the lost opportunity I feel they had when they “redid” I-street and did such a weird spacing of the paver “lanes”, trees and tables and didn’t put back the impression of curb and sidewalk with lampposts. Disney has redone most of main street to minimize the actual curbs as a tripping hazard but still look like they are there.  

 

[KIghostguy]

34 minutes ago, brenthodge said:

I’m not sure if they are doing themselves a favor posting these historical photos that show how much better the park looked back then. Seeing these again illustrates to be the big list opportunity they had when they “redid” I-street and did such a weird spacing of the paver “lanes”, trees and tables and didn’t put back the impression of curb and sidewalk with lampposts. Disney has redone most of main street to minimize the actual curbs as a tripping hazard but still look like they are there.  

 

The curbs were not removed because they were a tripping hazard. They were removed because they acted as a barrier in the minds of guests, and prevented them from entering the stores and restaurants. And so they did not return in 2019. But lots of other great aspects of International Street did. Just because they didn't bring the curbs back doesn't mean the redo was a bust like you suggest. It's certainly one of the best projects the park has ever done. 

[brenthodge]

50 minutes ago, KIghostguy said:

The curbs were not removed because they were a tripping hazard. They were removed because they acted as a barrier in the minds of guests, and prevented them from entering the stores and restaurants. And so they did not return in 2019. But lots of other great aspects of International Street did. Just because they didn't bring the curbs back doesn't mean the redo was a bust like you suggest. It's certainly one of the best projects the park has ever done. 

Hmmmm yet Disney, arguably one of the most commercially motivated companies out there seemed to survive with “mental barriers” blocking their stores. And I didn’t say it was a bust. I said it was a missed opportunity. You know, people can have different opinions without needing to put words in their mouth.  And I disagree in that I feel like in it’s completed state it isn’t one of the best projects they’ve done when I feel like they stopped halfway, but that’s my opinion (which I’m sure you’ll tell me is wrong) 

[PKIDelirium]

If they had done flat "curb" sidewalks for the sake of appearance, it would have been a strange look with everything else being pavers. Originally, it had those when it was an asphalt surface and looked like an actual "street" but now it's one, matching surface type.

They don't have to take it back to 1972 whenever they re-do an area. It's a vast improvement on the ancient, crumbling pavers and concrete bench walls from before.

[KIghostguy]

1 hour ago, brenthodge said:

Hmmmm yet Disney, arguably one of the most commercially motivated companies out there seemed to survive with “mental barriers” blocking their stores.

You might think it sounds ridiculous, but it is the reason why it was removed according to Mike Foley, who was the one who made the decision to remove it. 

[FUN&ONLY!]

In 1972, Kings Island had many rides sponsored by companies and a lot of asphalt walkways. Now these sights are much more rare to see at the park. Not everything was better in 1972 when it comes to Kings Island. For me, the saddest thing to see is parts of Kings Island that are not being maintained over the years. International Street was a shell of its former self pre renovation. However, after the 2019 renovation, it looks much better. Same story with the Festhaus and the theming on Adventure Express. I don’t think Cedar Fair neglects parts of the park for the most part. However, it would be nice to see the stations and queue areas of The Beast and Adventure Express fixed up. Furthermore, like International Street, some original aspects of the park have become outdated. The entrance comes to mind. Even thought it is mostly original, it could stand to be reimagined just like International Street was.

[PKIDelirium]

At the moment, I think Action Zone and Oktoberfest in general are most in need of a full area overhaul. Preferably, as I've said before, by combining the two into a consolidated, full-size Oktoberfest. For Banshee, they did what they could but AZ still suffers from an excess of concrete, while Oktoberfest is a very weak area overall. Festhaus revamp, Viking Fury paint, etc were good steps, but it's still kind of a "ride desert" with only Viking Fury, Adventure Express, and SlingShot which would have been better placed by Paramount in Action Zone.

Basically, when I think of Oktoberfest and Action Zone as they are now, I think of Busch Williamsburg's Oktoberfest section, and the potential to attain that level of quality at KI.

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

22 minutes ago, PKIDelirium said:

At the moment, I think Action Zone and Oktoberfest in general are most in need of a full area overhaul. Preferably, as I've said before, by combining the two into a consolidated, full-size Oktoberfest. For Banshee, they did what they could but AZ still suffers from an excess of concrete, while Oktoberfest is a very weak area overall. Festhaus revamp, Viking Fury paint, etc were good steps, but it's still kind of a "ride desert" with only Viking Fury, Adventure Express, and SlingShot which would have been better placed by Paramount in Action Zone.

Basically, when I think of Oktoberfest and Action Zone as they are now, I think of Busch Williamsburg's Oktoberfest section, and the potential to attain that level of quality at KI.

Unfortunately it seems like they put that idea to rest with Drop Tower's repaint being the same as before including the checkerboards. Seems like they want to keep Action Zone "Action Zone". I think Banshee could fit the "Action Zone" theme as screaming is sorta an "action" thing and it's inverted. I would agree that SlingShot does not belong in Oktoberfest. I say maybe KI could pull a Cedar Point and move Sling Shot over to Congo Falls plot if/when they remove it and could give it a nice light package along with Skyflyer similar to Daytona Beach. 

[brenthodge]

17 hours ago, PKIDelirium said:

If they had done flat "curb" sidewalks for the sake of appearance, it would have been a strange look with everything else being pavers. Originally, it had those when it was an asphalt surface and looked like an actual "street" but now it's one, matching surface type.

They don't have to take it back to 1972 whenever they re-do an area. It's a vast improvement on the ancient, crumbling pavers and concrete bench walls from before.

I think others have made it work quite well. And it’s not one matching surface it’s three styles of pavers that that seem oddly scaled in their application to me. This image is essentially all one level plane, but it looks like a street with curbs and brick sidewalks 

 

[brenthodge]

2 hours ago, FUN&ONLY! said:

In 1972, Kings Island had many rides sponsored by companies and a lot of asphalt walkways. Now these sights are much more rare to see at the park. Not everything was better in 1972 when it comes to Kings Island. For me, the saddest thing to see is parts of Kings Island that are not being maintained over the years. International Street was a shell of its former self pre renovation. However, after the 2019 renovation, it looks much better. Same story with the Festhaus and the theming on Adventure Express. I don’t think Cedar Fair neglects parts of the park for the most part. However, it would be nice to see the stations and queue areas of The Beast and Adventure Express fixed up. Furthermore, like International Street, some original aspects of the park have become outdated. The entrance comes to mind. Even thought it is mostly original, it could stand to be reimagined just like International Street was.

I didn’t say I wanted a return to 1972, but I felt like there were elements of the original park that looked better (and some certainly didn’t look so great) Yes, there have been years of neglect, bad choices and odd design “add ons” that the park has done a lot to correct these past few years, but I still think there are things they could’ve done to bring more of a street scape to IS and the placement of trees in  the narrow strip of black pavers to mimic a street was odd. It just feels like the tan “sidewalk” is too wide, and the third material by the fence is unnecessary. Wish the made the black wider in the center and edged it on both sides with the cobblestone. I don’t know, it just looks like half the tables and the trees are in the little “street” part. 

[BoddaH1994]

You also have to remember that much of their decision making around the fact that it was designed for the parade. 
 

I’m sure that the curbs were discussed in the planning phases, but I think the space crunch of the parade, trip hazards, and the psychological barricades all went into the decision to just use pavers. 

[BeeastFarmer]

I'll give my two cents:  I would have loved to have seen a curb element installed.  More than that, I would have loved to see the ornate lamps return, that were removed during the Cedar Fair tenure.  Also, I prefer the fountain pedestals to the show jets.  BUT--in spite of this, I am glad they did what they did.  It looks great and functions great.  It is now an experience instead of just a walk through to get into the park.  

I also think the new blacktop around the tower is temporary.  I hope they replace it with pavers and extend this into Tower Gardens.  Perhaps this will be a phase two.  Of course I would like to see some ornate landscaping around the fountain and tower--flowers around the fountain (no trimmed shrubbery and white rocks) and flowers and weeping shrubbery around the tower.  

[brenthodge]

3 hours ago, BoddaH1994 said:

You also have to remember that much of their decision making around the fact that it was designed for the parade. 
 

I’m sure that the curbs were discussed in the planning phases, but I think the space crunch of the parade, trip hazards, and the psychological barricades all went into the decision to just use pavers. 

based on what you said about being designed for the parade, it’s an odd layout they did in that the pavers could’ve been used to define the parade route and where peopke are to stand instead of having to use tape to create lines. As it is now, there’s NOT a defined “standing area” vs “parade area” with the pavers, so that’s a bit of a fail in the layout in my opinion.  People seem hung up on the actual raised curb idea. I was simply expressing my feelings that the project as a whole stopped short of really bringing the area to the next level with lighting, hardscspe etc. It looks nice, I agree, but I don’t feel it’s the second coming  like some make it out to be. It’s actually just reversing only some of the bad decisions made over the past few decades. 

[standbyme]

3 hours ago, BeeastFarmer said:

It is now an experience instead of just a walk through to get into the park.  

I usually agree with most of your opions…but never once did I consider the fountain with the pedestals just something to walk through…on my very first visit decades ago, the ONLY thing that has stayed with me is the majesty of walking into the park and seeing the tower and the fountains.

[Timchat2]

I hope some version of the pedestals can return to the Royal Fountain sooner than later. There has to be a way for them to coexist with the dancing fountain idea.

[brenthodge]

3 hours ago, standbyme said:

I usually agree with most of your opions…but never once did I consider the fountain with the pedestals just something to walk through…on my very first visit decades ago, the ONLY thing that has stayed with me is the majesty of walking into the park and seeing the tower and the fountains.

Agree, and honestly I’d venture that with the fountain renovation, they actually lessened the experience. Now, if the grand renovation on international street involved pushing the seating out closer to the fountain all the way around allowing for the seating to be further out, bringing back a true “street” hardscape and light posts along the building side to better define the “street”, hiding speakers so they aren’t just hung on the buildings, building out soffits to hide lighting equipment instead of having cords bundled all over the buildings, installing enough electrical outlets to properly light all Winterfest trim with out running extension cords that are left up all year, replacing mall food court options with true international foods, bringing back some compelling retail instead of a mall build a bear, and creating a program fir a show fountain that stays grand and refined through the day, then amazes at night…THEN I’d say WOW that’s the most impressive project they’ve ever undertaken. As it is, they performed needed maintenance with an eye toward historical references, replaced aging pavers and cleaned up traffic flow, and replaced aging fountain equipment that resulted in an overused, too thin spray “show fountain” that looses its impact by the time of its show by showing off all its tricks throughout the day. I know I’ll get the usual “why do you even come here because you clearly don’t like the park” line I always get, but it’s just that I feel they could’ve done so much more when they had the chance (which won’t probably come around again for a long time) and that’s BECAUSE I enjoy the park and hope it to be the best it can. 

[BeeastFarmer]

17 minutes ago, brenthodge said:

Agree, and honestly I’d venture that with the fountain renovation, they actually lessened the experience. Now, if the grand renovation on international street involved pushing the seating out closer to the fountain all the way around allowing for the seating to be further out, bringing back a true “street” hardscape and light posts along the building side to better define the “street”, hiding speakers so they aren’t just hung on the buildings, building out soffits to hide lighting equipment instead of having cords bundled all over the buildings, installing enough electrical outlets to properly light all Winterfest trim with out running extension cords that are left up all year, replacing mall food court options with true international foods, bringing back some compelling retail instead of a mall build a bear, and creating a program fir a show fountain that stays grand and refined through the day, then amazes at night…THEN I’d say WOW that’s the most impressive project they’ve ever undertaken. As it is, they performed needed maintenance with an eye toward historical references, replaced aging pavers and cleaned up traffic flow, and replaced aging fountain equipment that resulted in an overused, too thin spray “show fountain” that looses its impact by the time of its show by showing off all its tricks throughout the day. I know I’ll get the usual “why do you even come here because you clearly don’t like the park” line I always get, but it’s just that I feel they could’ve done so much more when they had the chance (which won’t probably come around again fir a long time) and that’s BECAUSE I live the park and hope it to be the best it can. 

I don't get a negative vibe from you at all.  I think you are extpressing what you wish the park had done, like many of us do about many subjects.  I think we all want the best version of KI there is and what we see as the best, the leaders don't.  I enjoy your posts!

 

1 hour ago, standbyme said:

I usually agree with most of your opions…but never once did I consider the fountain with the pedestals just something to walk through…on my very first visit decades ago, the ONLY thing that has stayed with me is the majesty of walking into the park and seeing the tower and the fountains.

Thanks, I consider that a great compliment.  

Maybe I should have worded it differently, but pre 2017, I did enjoy the reveal of the tower and fountains.  But  it was stale as not much pizzaz had been added or maintained beyond that.  When the pop music was changed in 2017,  for me, the magic returned.  And then the renovation built on that.  I now look forward to the atmosphere on IS as much as riding Diamondback, and take the time to experience it each time I go to the park.

[brenthodge]

1 hour ago, BeeastFarmer said:

I don't get a negative vibe from you at all.  I think you are extpressing what you wish the park had done, like many of us do about many subjects.  I think we all want the best version of KI there is and what we see as the best, the leaders don't.  I enjoy your posts!

 

Thanks, I consider that a great compliment.  

Maybe I should have worded it differently, but pre 2017, I did enjoy the reveal of the tower and fountains.  But  it was stale as not much pizzaz had been added or maintained beyond that.  When the pop music was changed in 2017,  for me, the magic returned.  And then the renovation built on that.  I now look forward to the atmosphere on IS as much as riding Diamondback, and take the time to experience it each time I go to the park.

Thanks. Some, with their passion and love for the park feel they need to negate anything they view as critical of the park, when it’s really not meant as a negative, but a wistful desire for things that you personally see as creating the “best possible guest experience “ 

[BlondyRidesOn]

I like the new International Street and new Royal Fountain. I used to feel iffy about the aesthetics of the fountain changing, but seeing the reintroduction of the European theming of the buildings made up for it. At the end of the day, it's the architecture that makes International Street what it is, the fountain leading to the Eiffel Tower just ties it all together. I do think that it would have been cool to see street lamps returning to the street, but it is what it is.

In terms of food, I will say that these past couple years I've noticed that Cedar Fair is starting to show that they're not afraid to delve into theming a bit more. French Corner opening up during Tricks & Treats Fall Fest in 2020 is a great example. I didn't expect the park to add French food to their dining line up, and I was pretty impressed when I ate there. I really like the croissant sandwiches with the pomme frites on the side. And the interior is decked out with pictures of French landmarks and maps of Paris. I recommend eating there; it's a nice food stand and it enhances International Street's theming 

I think we should give props to the park for returning some "international" foods outside of Grand Carnivale, because this could be a step towards returning International Street to what it used to be prior to Paramount's tenure. 

[brenthodge]

57 minutes ago, BlondyRidesOn said:

I like the new International Street and new Royal Fountain. I used to feel iffy about the aesthetics of the fountain changing, but seeing the reintroduction of the European theming of the buildings made up for it. At the end of the day, it's the architecture that makes International Street what it is, the fountain leading to the Eiffel Tower just ties it all together. I do think that it would have been cool to see street lamps returning to the street, but it is what it is.

In terms of food, I will say that these past couple years I've noticed that Cedar Fair is starting to show that they're not afraid to delve into theming a bit more. French Corner opening up during Tricks & Treats Fall Fest in 2020 is a great example. I didn't expect the park to add French food to their dining line up, and I was pretty impressed when I ate there. I really like the croissant sandwiches with the pomme frites on the side. And the interior is decked out with pictures of French landmarks and maps of Paris. I recommend eating there; it's a nice food stand and it enhances International Street's theming 

I think we should give props to the park for returning some "international" foods outside of Grand Carnivale, because this could be a step towards returning International Street to what it used to be prior to Paramount's tenure. 

Totally agree that small steps are definitely  being taken with the food. I certainly understand that it’s also a business balancing act when you are trying to be theme appropriate, yet sellable. 

[JimParker85]

Kings Dominion has the perfect International Street, at least to me. The updated one at KI is still beautiful, and it sets the tone every time I'm there for a great day and then a great end to the night when we walk out. I miss the larger trees and lived in atmosphere that Dominion has, but I hope I never take it for granted. My home park of Canada's Wonderland's International Street feels a bit less special but still beautiful. The bridge over the water near the mountain is great. 

[IndyGuy4KI]

2 hours ago, brenthodge said:

Totally agree that small steps are definitely  being taken with the food. I certainly understand that it’s also a business balancing act when you are trying to be theme appropriate, yet sellable. 

I am hoping Chef Major has some ideas for the 50th anniversary in 22 in the food department. In the not to distant past there were threads about bad food quality. Now most of the discussion is positive and people looking forward to the next food event wondering what Chef has up his sleeve.  He really had changed the game with the food at KI. 

[BoddaH1994]

13 hours ago, IndyGuy4KI said:

I am hoping Chef Major has some ideas for the 50th anniversary in 22 in the food department. In the not to distant past there were threads about bad food quality. Now most of the discussion is positive and people looking forward to the next food event wondering what Chef has up his sleeve.  He really had changed the game with the food at KI. 

Most popular foods of certain decades named off attractions that debuted around that time. Calling it now. 

[kirbias1]

20 hours ago, brenthodge said:

Agree, and honestly I’d venture that with the fountain renovation, they actually lessened the experience. Now, if the grand renovation on international street involved pushing the seating out closer to the fountain all the way around allowing for the seating to be further out, bringing back a true “street” hardscape and light posts along the building side to better define the “street”, hiding speakers so they aren’t just hung on the buildings, building out soffits to hide lighting equipment instead of having cords bundled all over the buildings, installing enough electrical outlets to properly light all Winterfest trim with out running extension cords that are left up all year, replacing mall food court options with true international foods, bringing back some compelling retail instead of a mall build a bear, and creating a program fir a show fountain that stays grand and refined through the day, then amazes at night…THEN I’d say WOW that’s the most impressive project they’ve ever undertaken. As it is, they performed needed maintenance with an eye toward historical references, replaced aging pavers and cleaned up traffic flow, and replaced aging fountain equipment that resulted in an overused, too thin spray “show fountain” that looses its impact by the time of its show by showing off all its tricks throughout the day. I know I’ll get the usual “why do you even come here because you clearly don’t like the park” line I always get, but it’s just that I feel they could’ve done so much more when they had the chance (which won’t probably come around again for a long time) and that’s BECAUSE I enjoy the park and hope it to be the best it can. 

Yep, Cedar Fair is very sneaky about downgrading KI. Here is your Giga, oh by the way, it won't even be 300 feet high and will be very short plus you'll lose Vortex and Firehawk in the process. Here is the "upgraded" fountains that look much less impressive when you walk in compared to before, but hey, they are synced to music and lights and you have new pavers! I'm worried their "sneaky" ways are continuing with the work that's going on with The Beast.  Hopefully, the work doesn't lessen the experience.

All of these things at first seem like "upgrades", but after you think about it, are they really? And if they are not what they seem, then why?  I think we all know why.

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

9 minutes ago, kirbias1 said:

Yep, Cedar Fair is very sneaky about downgrading KI. Here is your Giga, oh by the way, it won't even be 300 feet high and will be very short plus you'll lose Vortex and Firehawk in the process. Here is the "upgraded" fountains that look much less impressive when you walk in compared to before, but hey, they are synced to music and lights and you have new pavers! I'm worried their "sneaky" ways are continuing with the work that's going on with The Beast.  Hopefully, the work doesn't lessen the experience.

All of these things at first seem like "upgrades", but after you think about it, are they really? And if they are not what they seem, then why?  I think we all know why.

You think building a $30 million dollar coaster with a 300 foot drop is downgrading the park?? LOL x a million. 

[kirbias1]

1 minute ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

You think building a $30 million dollar coaster with a 300 foot drop is downgrading the park?? LOL x a million. 

You're missing the point. Look what KI LOST to get it....and it's the lesser of ALL the gigas even though KI has so much land to work with.  Look what Knott's is about to get in a landlocked park. That will probably be 50 million dollar investment without losing anything except parking spaces. Get it now?

[CoastersRZ]

Except, Firehawk was a low capacity ride which required lots of operators to run.  Vortex from what I had heard was going to need some major money to keep it running.  If you read Evan`s KI history book, we should be fortunate that KI got Orion, since it was originally slated for another park.  

On your subject of Knott`s, yes they are landlocked.  But look at the market that they are operating in.  Disneyland and Universal are not far, so competition is more prominent there.  Also, look at what Knott`s has added since 2010 in terms of coasters.  Coast Rider in 2013 (Mack wild mouse) and Hang Time in 2018 (Gerstlauer Infinity coaster).  Kings Island in that same span has added Banshee (2014), Mystic Timbers (2017) and Orion (2020).  Clearly Cedar Fair is investing money in KI.  Also, Knott`s is open year round, so if they get a major new coaster, it can draw crowds over more days compared to KI.  Knott`s is a terrific park.  

Is it sad that KI lost Vortex?  Yes.  I think that the park needs to add something in that spot soon, as it makes the back end of Coney Mall seem very barren.  I still don`t like that you can see The Beast`s station from the three point challenge.

[BoddaH1994]

I think the discussion about Vortex’s plot of land would be a bit different if it weren’t for the pandemic. Probably true for a lot of parks. 

[kirbias1]

6 hours ago, CoastersRZ said:

Except, Firehawk was a low capacity ride which required lots of operators to run.  Vortex from what I had heard was going to need some major money to keep it running.  If you read Evan`s KI history book, we should be fortunate that KI got Orion, since it was originally slated for another park.  

On your subject of Knott`s, yes they are landlocked.  But look at the market that they are operating in.  Disneyland and Universal are not far, so competition is more prominent there.  Also, look at what Knott`s has added since 2010 in terms of coasters.  Coast Rider in 2013 (Mack wild mouse) and Hang Time in 2018 (Gerstlauer Infinity coaster).  Kings Island in that same span has added Banshee (2014), Mystic Timbers (2017) and Orion (2020).  Clearly Cedar Fair is investing money in KI.  Also, Knott`s is open year round, so if they get a major new coaster, it can draw crowds over more days compared to KI.  Knott`s is a terrific park.  

Is it sad that KI lost Vortex?  Yes.  I think that the park needs to add something in that spot soon, as it makes the back end of Coney Mall seem very barren.  I still don`t like that you can see The Beast`s station from the three point challenge.

Yes, I love Knott's. Fantastic park!  But If Cedar Point was located in Southern California, do you think Knott's would still get this ride? That's what i've been saying about KI being in the same state as CP. I just think we get scaled down rides and downgraded  in other ways becuase CP doesn't want KI to outshine them in any way.