Cedar Fair to close California’s Great America

[joeblow9981]

is there going to be a roller coaster transplant from California’s Great America on the old Vortex plot at KI?

[Orion742]

3 hours ago, joeblow9981 said:

is there going to be a roller coaster transplant from California’s Great America on the old Vortex plot at KI?

I can’t confirm anything is coming to that plot of land, let alone KI, It is all speculation right now.

[FUN&ONLY!]

5 hours ago, joeblow9981 said:

is there going to be a roller coaster transplant from California’s Great America on the old Vortex plot at KI?

There’s not any rollercoaster from California’s Great America that I could see being relocated to Kings Island that would be a good fit on The Vortex plot of land. The only rollercoaster I could see coming to Kings Island from California’s Great America is Psycho Mouse, but I couldn’t see that going where Vortex was. The ride would probably go in Planet Snoopy.

[silver2005]

I'd say at minimum- Demon, Grizzly, and Gold Striker are toast. 

[Orion742]

29 minutes ago, silver2005 said:

I'd say at minimum- Demon, Grizzly, and Gold Striker are toast. 

I absolutely agree, I have heard that Gold Striker will make it from a lot of other people but it is a terrain coaster I just don’t think they can relocate it.

[dustyj86]

I absolutely agree, I have heard that Gold Striker will make it from a lot of other people but it is a terrain coaster I just don’t think they can relocate it.

The land Goldstriker is on is pretty flat so I wouldn’t say a terrain coaster-It is a wooden coaster though. However it doesn’t hold any historical significance. Those are typically the wooden coasters we see saved.
The value leftover from Goldstriker would be the wood and definitely the trains and mechanics of the attraction


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[silver2005]

The 2 B&Ms are a coin flip.   Flight Deck has more of an upside for a potential new home as inverts are popular no matter what, its just a matter of age.  Patriot is even more of a coin flip.  

[Orion742]

21 minutes ago, silver2005 said:

The 2 B&Ms are a coin flip.   Flight Deck has more of an upside for a potential new home as inverts are popular no matter what, its just a matter of age.  Patriot is even more of a coin flip.  

I think if they have plans for a new Invert at Valleyfair then they won’t relocate it. What would be cool is if it went to Kings Dominion if they remove Anaconda and put Flight Deck there and it could still fly over the water like it did at CGA.

[SonofBaconator]

5 hours ago, Orion742 said:

I think if they have plans for a new Invert at Valleyfair then they won’t relocate it. What would be cool is if it went to Kings Dominion if they remove Anaconda and put Flight Deck there and it could still fly over the water like it did at CGA.

I believe KD should look at ground up coasters as opposed to relocated ones

[PKIDelirium]

Patriot will be a matter of if Carowinds wants to convert their Vortex, the trains and station equipment could be sent to them, instead of buying another "conversion kit" for Vortex. If relocated, Worlds of Fun could be a potential destination.

Flight Deck is a for-sure relocation, and could potentially even become that forever-rumored invert for VF. Doesn't every other CF park aside from KD have an invert already, either B&M or SLC?

Demon's age means it's probably welded together rather than bolted and will follow Geauga Lake's Double Loop to the scrapyard, with any usable components being sent to other parks with Arrow loopers. Same age range as MA's Corkscrew.

Grizzly is toast.

Gold Striker is on level enough ground, with some major parts even being on slab foundation, to relocate. Destination park unknown, and relocating a wood coaster is expensive. We saw what happened to the GCI in Branson, so unfortunately it's likely also toast.

RailBlazer is a guaranteed relocation to one of the smaller parks. Capacity is too low for the likes of KI/CP/CW. KD could be a possibility if they wanted to pair it with Tumbili in the rethemed area, space permitting, otherwise perhaps Worlds of Fun (if they don't get Patriot), Dorney, or MA.

Psycho Mouse is an Arrow but not terribly old for a Wild Mouse, but only four were built, two are at other Cedar Fair parks and one was scrapped. Most likely a parts donor for the other two Cedar Fair models, otherwise toast.

Woodstock Express is an old Intamin family coaster. Possible parts donor for Jr. Gemini, otherwise toast.

Lucy's Crabbie Cabbies is a Miler kiddie. Easy to relocate to a park without one of those, good chance of it being salvaged.

[dustyj86]

Patriot will be a matter of if Carowinds wants to convert their Vortex, the trains and station equipment could be sent to them, instead of buying another "conversion kit" for Vortex. If relocated, Worlds of Fun could be a potential destination.
Flight Deck is a for-sure relocation, and could potentially even become that forever-rumored invert for VF. Doesn't every other CF park aside from KD have an invert already, either B&M or SLC?
Demon's age means it's probably welded together rather than bolted and will follow Geauga Lake's Double Loop to the scrapyard, with any usable components being sent to other parks with Arrow loopers. Same age range as MA's Corkscrew.
Grizzly is toast.
Gold Striker is on level enough ground, with some major parts even being on slab foundation, to relocate. Destination park unknown, and relocating a wood coaster is expensive. We saw what happened to the GCI in Branson, so unfortunately it's likely also toast.
RailBlazer is a guaranteed relocation to one of the smaller parks. Capacity is too low for the likes of KI/CP/CW. KD could be a possibility if they wanted to pair it with Tumbili in the rethemed area, space permitting, otherwise perhaps Worlds of Fun (if they don't get Patriot), Dorney, or MA.
Psycho Mouse is an Arrow but not terribly old for a Wild Mouse, but only four were built, two are at other Cedar Fair parks and one was scrapped. Most likely a parts donor for the other two Cedar Fair models, otherwise toast.
Woodstock Express is an old Intamin family coaster. Possible parts donor for Jr. Gemini, otherwise toast.
Lucy's Crabbie Cabbies is a Miler kiddie. Easy to relocate to a park without one of those, good chance of it being salvaged.

I like the idea of RailBlazer going to Kings Dominion. I’m sure Valleyfair, Worlds of Fun and Michigan’s Adventure would love to have it but they’ve been so neglected that it wouldn’t surprise me if they’re passed over with RailBlazer.
I think Cedar Fair should invest into them with a modest but solid new addition and monitor that response to see if attendance spikes any amount. That’ll give a better way to gauge how these parks should be invested in the future.
It’s been so long since they’ve been invested in that I’m not sure if CF has any reality on HOW to do it. A relocated coaster as a major addition is a slap in the face though.
As far as I’m concerned, CF needs to start investing in those parks or pull the plug and end the misery by selling them to another operator- either a large one or independent one.
RailBlazer would be fantastic in the newly rethemed Jungle Xpedition area!


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[Browntggrr]

The building of Levi stadium & sharing the parking lot was the beginning of the end for the park.

The park was not open during 49er home games which are at least 9 to 12 games per year depending on the preseason schedule & possible playoff games.  This makes me wonder if the park was closed during other events: college football, soccer, concerts etc.

High operating expenses, landlocked, uneven operating schedule for typical high volume days plus a generous offer for the land?  A smart business decision was made for the majority of stockholders that will benefit the company as a whole in future years.

[KI Guy]

I wish circumstances were different and the whole park could be relocated to cheaper land. There have been cases where this has happened (Coney/Kings Island, Elitch's in the 90's and possibly a 2nd relocation in the near future).

in this case though, I don't know if available, cheap land even exists within two hours of the park (if anyone has insight let us know). Also, I don't know of a full relocation for a park under a publicly traded company. I'd think CF would rather pocket the money and divvy up the assets rather than risk that a relocation would be successful.

[dustyj86]

I wish circumstances were different and the whole park could be relocated to cheaper land. There have been circumstances where this happens (Coney/Kings Island, Elitch's in the 90's and possibly a 2nd relocation in the near future).
in this case though I don't know if available cheap land even exists within two hours of the park (if anyone has insight let us know). Also, I don't know a full relocation for a park under a publicly traded company. I'd think CF would rather pocket the money and Divya up the assets rather than risk that a relocation would be successful.

Absolutely. Generally speaking, Cedar Fair is a somewhat conservative company in that they don’t make many big risks very often.
I love the idea of relocating the park. That, however is now up to Prologis.
I’m making plans to finally visit CGA. I’ve only wanted to visit since I was nine, some 26 years ago
I think CGA will see increased attendance now that it has been announced.
This was a calculated move on Cedar Fair’s part- announce the closure (anywhere from 2-11 years from now) and drum up some business. Create some urgency to visit the park.
Well-played Cedar Fair.. sob, ya got me.


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[Browntggrr]

1 hour ago, KI Guy said:

in this case though, I don't know if available, cheap land even exists within two hours of the park (if anyone has insight let us know). Also, I don't know of a full relocation for a park under a publicly traded company. I'd think CF would rather pocket the money and divvy up the assets rather than risk that a relocation would be successful.

Being in CA, it's not only about available land at a "decent" price (which is unheard of in CA) but new structures being in line with new engineering for earthquakes.

Combine both those & I would venture to guess the price tag would easily more than double the income made selling the current park land.

[DiamondbackFan]

1 hour ago, dustyj86 said:

I love the idea of relocating the park. That, however is now up to Prologis.

No, it isn't.  If you read the SEC filing, Cedar Fair only sold the land and still has ownership of everything else on the property.

[SonofBaconator]

What ever happened to Six Flags’ Fresno project?

[dustyj86]

No, it isn't.  If you read the SEC filing, Cedar Fair only sold the land and still has ownership of everything else on the property.

Ah! Thanks!
In that case I don’t see that happening.
I see the rides being divvied up, some potentially sold and some scrapped.

I had high hopes when they bought the land, but now it all makes sense.

Thanks DiamondbackFan!


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[DoomPlague]

5 hours ago, SonofBaconator said:

What ever happened to Six Flags’ Fresno project?

I wondered that the other day. Sounds like the idea is more or less dead now.

[Imperial79]

On 7/1/2022 at 10:35 PM, dustyj86 said:

Not to mention the odd angle the mall took with the 1975 expansion
Original location would be best, I agree


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Same here, I’d like to see it in that spot again. 
 

Do you think there’s enough room for it though with Woodstock Whirlybirds so close? They might have to take it out, if they did, maybe we could see KI taking a ride from CGA Planet Snoopy, to help fill in its place.  It would be nice to see Peanuts Pirates be added to our Planet Snoopy, this would give Kings Island the most rides again for a kids area, adding the Skyride and the Peanuts Pirates breakdance ride.  This may help KI retake the Best Kids Area at the GTA, from Dollywood if Kings Island is interested in doing that. 

[westcoaster]

Beyond saddened about this as its a great Park n Cedar Fair had plans.Hope  the Fried chucken restaurants make it to other Parks yes its different than Mrs Knotts at Knotts .Hope some of the rides recipes and slides saved. 

Also with the cists of land valyes are other Cedar Fair parks Vulnerable yes. 

Westcoaster

Lastuckyboy 

 

[dustyj86]

Same here, I’d like to see it in that spot again. 
 
Do you think there’s enough room for it though with Woodstock Whirlybirds so close? They might have to take it out, if they did, maybe we could see KI taking a ride from CGA Planet Snoopy, to help fill in its place.  It would be nice to see Peanuts Pirates be added to our Planet Snoopy, this would give Kings Island the most rides again for a kids area, adding the Skyride and the Peanuts Pirates breakdance ride.  This may help KI retake the Best Kids Area at the GTA, from Dollywood if Kings Island is interested in doing that. 

Oh I’m sure if they DID install CGA’s Skyride at Kings Island, using the original path, a complete redo of Planet Snoopy would likely take place. I see it transforming into Camp Snoopy like at other Cedar Fair parks.
The Skyride station, as you know, is currently Snoopy Boutique, so they’d be down a gift shop unless they decide to move that entirely to International Street- possibly replacing Kings Island Essentials (?)
The two shops on either side of the main gate are somewhat redundant with the Emporium, so I can see one of them closing and being consolidated with the other. Seeing the Snoopy Boutique RIGHT before you exit would definitely help with merchandise sales.
Woodstock Whirlybirds is, indeed, too close. It could be relocated with the transformation of Planet Snoopy to Camp Snoopy. It’s been quite a while since the area was COMPLETELY redone. With the addition of the Skyride, it would be perfect timing to do the entire area.
That station (Planet Snoopy formerly Happy Land of Hanna Barbera) was originally the tension station, where a huge concrete counterweight hung in a pit to keep tension on the cable, so construction at the building would be a lot more than just tearing down walls.
The other construction would be the construction of a new Drive station- the station that houses the large drive motor and backup generator. This would be located where Slingshot was. If the Skyride is brought over, I do hope they fit it to the original drive station’s theme of a Swiss chalet.
The only real obstacle that I see is Viking Fury. The Skyride would pass directly over Viking Fury as it currently stands and I am not sure as to the height clearances. BUT- that could be relocated with a complete revamping of Oktoberfest. This has long been requested by guests and Kings Island enthusiasts. Perhaps we will also get CGA’s Berserker (Bayern Kurve) and even Centrifuge could easily have it’s ride vehicles replaced with barrels as a spiritual successor to Der Spinnen Keggers with an Oktoberfest revamping.
The possibilities are endless if a little practicality and logic is used.
Delta Flyer/Eagle’s Flight is a true gem and would be a much welcomed respite from walking.
The park was originally planned as a wagon wheel, the Eiffel Tower being the center and the areas branching off from there. However if you look at where the most popular attractions are, the main pathway between them makes an “A” shape. The Skyride would serve as the line in the middle. The Eiffel Tower being a dot in the middle of that line. On the left / would be Invertigo, Banshee, Delerium, Adventure Express, Orion, The Racer and The Bat. On the right \ would be Planet Snoopy, Mystic Timbers, KI & MVRR, White Water Canyon, access from the dry park to Soak City and Diamondback. The top tip of the “A” is The Beast/ Whatever Vortex’s replacement is.
To walk between the left / and the right \ is no small walk. A Skyride would quickly transport people to the other side.
Tired guests don’t spend as much.

And that is my rough draft thesis of a Skyride returning to Kings Island


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[SonofBaconator]

While there was a station in Hanna-Barbera land back in the 70s, times have changed. I feel like you run into the issue of kids riding on the sky ride unattended and worries parents looking for their kids.

I was felt that the idea of transport rides in kids areas were problematic. 

[dustyj86]

While there was a station in Hanna-Barbera land back in the 70s, times have changed. I feel like you run into the issue of kids riding on the sky ride unattended and worries parents looking for their kids.
I was felt that the idea of transport rides in kids areas were problematic. 

I dunno- Delta Flyer/Eagle’s Flight has operated safely at CGA for 46 years and Cedar Point’s has operated safely for 60 years

It will never be an attraction to pull in guests. It does have a purpose to fill at the park though.

It’s either this or parts for Cedar Point Skyride
Or just entirely scrapped. Time will tell.


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[SonofBaconator]

28 minutes ago, dustyj86 said:

I dunno- Delta Flyer/Eagle’s Flight has operated safely at CGA for 46 years and Cedar Point’s has operated safely for 60 years

It will never be an attraction to pull in guests. It does have a purpose to fill at the park though.

It’s either this or parts for Cedar Point Skyride
Or just entirely scrapped. Time will tell.


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Cedar Point and CGA’s skyrides don’t have stations in their children’s area where as KI’s old layout used to. 

[BeeastFarmer]

Since it's a theoretical new skyride for KI. they could put it anywhere they want.  Rivertown is crowded.  They could do it to a new station in Rivertown from a (future) reinvigorated Action Zone. (hopefully reinvigorated into Safari Villiage/Oktoberfest/Haunted Forest--all three of those great ideas have been bantered around these forums).

[dustyj86]

Cedar Point and CGA’s skyrides don’t have stations in their children’s area where as KI’s old layout used to. 

I suppose I am missing where the concern is founded. If anyone is tall enough to ride an attraction either with or without a taller companion- what’s to worry about? I’m pretty sure any ride op won’t allow a toddler or multiple toddlers to ride.


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[dustyj86]

Since it's a theoretical new skyride for KI. they could put it anywhere they want.  Rivertown is crowded.  They could do it to a new station in Rivertown from a (future) reinvigorated Action Zone. (hopefully reinvigorated into Safari Villiage/Oktoberfest/Haunted Forest--all three of those great ideas have been bantered around these forums).

Yes, yes they very well could! All options pare on the table if Mike Koontz voices interest in the Skyride and it fits into the plans for the park as a whole


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[SonofBaconator]

46 minutes ago, dustyj86 said:

I suppose I am missing where the concern is founded. If anyone is tall enough to ride an attraction either with or without a taller companion- what’s to worry about? I’m pretty sure any ride op won’t allow a toddler or multiple toddlers to ride.


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I suppose not, but things can happen. A lot of children’s play areas have one way in and one way out; ie Chuck E Cheese, McDonald’s Play Place, etc. With pathways to I-Street, Rivertown, and Soak City, Planet Snoopy is by no means a “one way in” section, I just don’t see the need for a transport ride to take people out of that area. A lot of the guests who take their young kids to Planet Snoopy have strollers and wagons that they use, so they’re already planning on walking.
 

I might be the minority, I just don’t see a need for a skyride to go across the park. I personally see skyrides like CP and CGA’s as more of a leisurely ride where people can see the park from a different vantage point. I’m more on board with a skyride that travels the Coney Mall midway, granting guests access views of the park that they haven’t necessarily seen before.

[FUN&ONLY!]

10 minutes ago, SonofBaconator said:

I suppose not, but things can happen. A lot of children’s play areas have one way in and one way out; ie Chuck E Cheese, McDonald’s Play Place, etc. With pathways to I-Street, Rivertown, and Soak City, Planet Snoopy is by no means a “one way in” section, I just don’t see the need for a transport ride to take people out of that area. A lot of the guests who take their young kids to Planet Snoopy have strollers and wagons that they use, so they’re already planning on walking.
 

I might be the minority, I just don’t see a need for a skyride to go across the park. I personally see skyrides like CP and CGA’s as more of a leisurely ride where people can see the park from a different vantage point. I’m more on board with a skyride that travels the Coney Mall midway, granting guests access views of the park that they haven’t necessarily seen before.

A sky ride down the Coney Mall midway would probably mean the removal of many trees. That is the last thing Kings Island needs.