2023 Live Entertainment Discussions

[disco2000]

Well we are the better park....

[super7]

3 hours ago, Timchat2 said:

The lighter 50th lineup at Carowinds is a little surprising given that Cedar Fair seemed rather bullish about the park's growth potential in recent years. Along with Worlds of Fun (which has a relatively robust 50th celebration for one of the "smaller" Cedar Fair parks), Carowinds' anniversary happened to land in a year with tighter live entertainment budgets.

I'm still intrigued to know if any Carowinds fans mind having a Kings Island-specific song from Enchanted Voyage ("Cartoon Friends") in their anniversary show. Did the song get used somewhere at Carowinds at some point? They didn't have a Hanna-Barbera dark ride as far as I remember.

Carowinds doesn’t get the attendance that KI does.   Their attendance is usually light on weekdays and even Sundays

[BoddaH1994]

3 hours ago, brenthodge said:

Not sure I get your point. We got BOTH, the better closing show AND the better parade/party plus 3  original park specific shows (actually 4 when you put the media/video component of 70s in the mix.) we blew the other milestones this year away! 

Oh, I thought you were saying that you liked the Carowinds street party better. 

[brenthodge]

23 minutes ago, BoddaH1994 said:

Oh, I thought you were saying that you liked the Carowinds street party better. 

Nope. It seems chaotic and a bit confrontational and weird like they are sample models in the fragrance dept trying to get people walking through to “party” with them. 

[Dave_78]

My thoughts are that the entertainment was a lot better when Taft owned the park early on... Of course the shows were expensive, but the house was packed for every show, be it in the theatre or at the International Showplace.  When there are only two performers singing to a track, it really isn't the best entertainment

Catch these shows from a previous link I created earlier this year:

Radio Commercials (Beast & Stop and share):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ejK1XUuydqh9yAa8BhGwjekqzMZ4cZHK/view?usp=share_link

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eWnN1yWZJjbF1RuqyLl6e4rY8avYdV0q/view?usp=share_link

Celebration 1982 (10th birthday):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6CxvemzxNQmQkt4NW9TbkwzVHM/view?usp=share_link&resourcekey=0-5o-80f8asJg4XEzLHH-3_Q

Encore International Showplace:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6CxvemzxNQmanYwTDB4dVdyM28/view?usp=share_link&resourcekey=0-yXoY1SbY3XweklmQo975Eg

Land of Happiness International Showplace:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6CxvemzxNQmMy1aQ25GVi04M3M/view?usp=share_link&resourcekey=0-qynS3Ez4ZQyJpmvp2syjVQ

Music Hit Parade International Showplace:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6CxvemzxNQmc20xTkh3WlZFbkU/view?usp=share_link&resourcekey=0-8WI9yR6IIyhhBNE0QxnEuQ

Singing To The World International Showplace: 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tEvr1h_3iEzXpbKmeODmBAc27_blLXD9/view?usp=share_link

That's Entertainment 1981:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6CxvemzxNQmSjhWbWY5Nnc0ZHc/view?usp=share_link&resourcekey=0-ZPLhiIxPnt7yYLnAaTjf6w

Winterfest Music:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6CxvemzxNQmcHczMzVodkxMS1U/view?usp=share_link&resourcekey=0-mOdXc3sL2A_swk2a-8Hfpg

Yabba Dabba Doo Caperoo 1980:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6CxvemzxNQmdGFJWnQtb1JxazA/view?usp=share_link&resourcekey=0-MHF3LeGcr78atmVWt2Fg1g

[robintodd]

11 hours ago, Dave_78 said:

My thoughts are that the entertainment was a lot better when Taft owned the park early on... Of course the shows were expensive, but the house was packed for every show, be it in the theatre or at the International Showplace.  When there are only two performers singing to a track, it really isn't the best entertainment

Catch these shows from a previous link I created earlier this year:

Radio Commercials (Beast & Stop and share):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ejK1XUuydqh9yAa8BhGwjekqzMZ4cZHK/view?usp=share_link

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eWnN1yWZJjbF1RuqyLl6e4rY8avYdV0q/view?usp=share_link

Celebration 1982 (10th birthday):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6CxvemzxNQmQkt4NW9TbkwzVHM/view?usp=share_link&resourcekey=0-5o-80f8asJg4XEzLHH-3_Q

Encore International Showplace:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6CxvemzxNQmanYwTDB4dVdyM28/view?usp=share_link&resourcekey=0-yXoY1SbY3XweklmQo975Eg

Land of Happiness International Showplace:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6CxvemzxNQmMy1aQ25GVi04M3M/view?usp=share_link&resourcekey=0-qynS3Ez4ZQyJpmvp2syjVQ

Music Hit Parade International Showplace:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6CxvemzxNQmc20xTkh3WlZFbkU/view?usp=share_link&resourcekey=0-8WI9yR6IIyhhBNE0QxnEuQ

Singing To The World International Showplace: 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tEvr1h_3iEzXpbKmeODmBAc27_blLXD9/view?usp=share_link

That's Entertainment 1981:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6CxvemzxNQmSjhWbWY5Nnc0ZHc/view?usp=share_link&resourcekey=0-ZPLhiIxPnt7yYLnAaTjf6w

Winterfest Music:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6CxvemzxNQmcHczMzVodkxMS1U/view?usp=share_link&resourcekey=0-mOdXc3sL2A_swk2a-8Hfpg

Yabba Dabba Doo Caperoo 1980:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6CxvemzxNQmdGFJWnQtb1JxazA/view?usp=share_link&resourcekey=0-MHF3LeGcr78atmVWt2Fg1g

Just listened to Celebration (I do have the vinyl but it was easier to click).  Brought back so many memories (I miss Sarah and Harry).  I so wish there was a video of the show.  The closest I've been able to find was the 84 show at Carowinds on you tube (which doesn't include The Bat sequence of course).  

Thanks for the trip back.

 

[Kenban]

Building big roller coasters, and adding tons of flat rides is an expense you can try to get back over a long period of time, you are building for the future.  But live entertainment happens immediately.  The attendance at Carowinds has to justify the expense right now, it can’t.

Carowinds annually already has a much lower attendance than Kings Island.  But they also have a longer season, which means average daily attendance is even worse as well.  Ten, Twenty, maybe more years from now Carowinds will be able to justify an anniversary event that will be as big as Kings Island.  But it’s not there yet, and with the nature of live entertainment, it’s unlikely to change in the next few years.

Back to Kings Island, I hope to see a Cirque show replace the Phantom Theatre next year.  I was at Canadas Wonderland roughly two weeks ago and they are running the return of an older Cirque show which if I remember correctly last ran at CW directly before coming to KI.  I believe at KI it was called Cirque Imagine, while at CW it’s called Cirque Ambiente.

[BoddaH1994]

2 hours ago, Kenban said:

Building big roller coasters, and adding tons of flat rides is an expense you can try to get back over a long period of time, you are building for the future.  But live entertainment happens immediately.  The attendance at Carowinds has to justify the expense right now, it can’t.

Carowinds annually already has a much lower attendance than Kings Island.  But they also have a longer season, which means average daily attendance is even worse as well.  Ten, Twenty, maybe more years from now Carowinds will be able to justify an anniversary event that will be as big as Kings Island.  But it’s not there yet, and with the nature of live entertainment, it’s unlikely to change in the next few years.

Back to Kings Island, I hope to see a Cirque show replace the Phantom Theatre next year.  I was at Canadas Wonderland roughly two weeks ago and they are running the return of an older Cirque show which if I remember correctly last ran at CW directly before coming to KI.  I believe at KI it was called Cirque Imagine, while at CW it’s called Cirque Ambiente.

I’m not sure if we can say with authority that CW has less attendance than KI. My gut instinct says you’re right, but I don’t know if we’ve seen it on paper. Even so, both parks are in the company’s top 4.

I think what happened was that KI was very fortunate to have their anniversary first, and then they saw the budget and wanted to know what they could do without for the next one. KD may really get the short end of the stick. 

[BeeastFarmer]

I think the company learned a good lesson with Dominion's 40th.  They stretched it over 2 years.  Then Cedar Point stretched theirs over three years (pandemic likely the reason for 3). Our 51 has some of the same things, mainly entertainment and a custom Royale Finale.  

With Carowinds and WOF, they continued Grand Carnivale, which is a plug and play event.  I think this allows them to save resources from other things like we got last year. 

[Timchat2]

3 hours ago, Kenban said:

Back to Kings Island, I hope to see a Cirque show replace the Phantom Theatre next year.  I was at Canadas Wonderland roughly two weeks ago and they are running the return of an older Cirque show which if I remember correctly last ran at CW directly before coming to KI.  I believe at KI it was called Cirque Imagine, while at CW it’s called Cirque Ambiente.

The return of a cirque show feels like a distinct possibility. Cedar Fair still has a relationship with Les Productions Haut-Vol and their shows probably have a broader appeal than the straight singing-and-dancing shows.

[Kenban]

1 hour ago, BoddaH1994 said:

I’m not sure if we can say with authority that CW has less attendance than KI. My gut instinct says you’re right, but I don’t know if we’ve seen it on paper. Even so, both parks are in the company’s top 4.

I think what happened was that KI was very fortunate to have their anniversary first, and then they saw the budget and wanted to know what they could do without for the next one. KD may really get the short end of the stick. 

I use CW for Canada’s Wonderland and just spell out Carowinds.  Assuming you’re using CW for Carowinds, we can say that for certain that Kings Island has a higher attendance.  Cedar Fair has broken down the attendance into large ranges and said which parks fall in each range. While we cannot say for certain where in those ranges a park falls, they put 4 parks in the top range, which they also did not put a top to the range, so while we know they are all above 3 million guests a year we do not know how much higher they are, or which order they are in.  The top 4 are Knott’s, Cedar Point, Kings Island, and Canadas Wonderland, so we know for certain Carowinds is both less than 3 million a year it is also lower than those 4 parks.

The last time the chain broke down revenue and earnings per a park was either 2016 or 2017.  Carowinds at the time was a distant 5th behind Canadas Wonderland which was in 4th, the reason they are in 4th is the exchange rate between Canadian Dollars and USD. Kings Island was 3rd, and Knott’s and Cedar Point are roughly tied for 1st and 2nd.  Unfortunately this is pretty out of date, but Carowinds was in a very distant 5th, they would need to have doubled the parks revenue to be close to Kings Island and that assumes zero growth at KI in that same period.  Assuming similar per cap revenue it suggests Carowinds likely had at the time around half the attendance of Kings Island.

[Orion-XL200]

1 hour ago, Timchat2 said:

The return of a cirque show feels like a distinct possibility. Cedar Fair still has a relationship with Les Productions Haut-Vol and their shows probably have a broader appeal than the straight singing-and-dancing shows.

I hope that a cirque type show comes back. Cirque Imagine and Gravity were my favorites of the shows we had. I really enjoyed Dimensions at Canada's Wonderland and would love for that show to come to KI. While I enjoy PTE, after the first couple times seeing it, I got kinda tired of it. It's a great show...just not my cup of tea. 

This season, I've watched "Come See About Me" at Cedar Point 26 times and I am sad that I won't be able to see it for the remainder of it's run at the park. The talent is amazing, the songs (Motown) are great and the storyline is a good one. It honestly shocked me when I would be waiting for doors to open, I'd see kids from 5 and up, as well as teenagers, adults and senior citizens lining up to see the show. It does have a broad appeal. 

If you are able to get to CP by the 13th, do so and go see "Come See About Me." 

[BoddaH1994]

3 hours ago, Kenban said:

I use CW for Canada’s Wonderland and just spell out Carowinds.  Assuming you’re using CW for Carowinds, we can say that for certain that Kings Island has a higher attendance.  Cedar Fair has broken down the attendance into large ranges and said which parks fall in each range. While we cannot say for certain where in those ranges a park falls, they put 4 parks in the top range, which they also did not put a top to the range, so while we know they are all above 3 million guests a year we do not know how much higher they are, or which order they are in.  The top 4 are Knott’s, Cedar Point, Kings Island, and Canadas Wonderland, so we know for certain Carowinds is both less than 3 million a year it is also lower than those 4 parks.

The last time the chain broke down revenue and earnings per a park was either 2016 or 2017.  Carowinds at the time was a distant 5th behind Canadas Wonderland which was in 4th, the reason they are in 4th is the exchange rate between Canadian Dollars and USD. Kings Island was 3rd, and Knott’s and Cedar Point are roughly tied for 1st and 2nd.  Unfortunately this is pretty out of date, but Carowinds was in a very distant 5th, they would need to have doubled the parks revenue to be close to Kings Island and that assumes zero growth at KI in that same period.  Assuming similar per cap revenue it suggests Carowinds likely had at the time around half the attendance of Kings Island.

Miscommunication. I thought you were comparing the attendance of Carowinds and KI. I doubt Carowinds draws more than KI, but I think Canada does. 

[DegenRider]

1 hour ago, BoddaH1994 said:

Miscommunication. I thought you were comparing the attendance of Carowinds and KI. I doubt Carowinds draws more than KI, but I think Canada does. 

That's because its 2 Canadians for every 1 American. Its just the exchange rate. 

[BoddaH1994]

7 hours ago, DegenRider said:

That's because its 2 Canadians for every 1 American. Its just the exchange rate. 

Your math appears to work out. 

[brenthodge]

PTE was having a blast today. I almost want to be here tomorrow for the final bow just to see how over the top they take it. I think there was even a dig at Vortex when Maestro said “really go out with a bang” Houdelini said “yeah like Vortex” this cast has really owned these roles this season! EDIT- and there’s banter between the Maestro and the audience. Has any show previously spawned this much “ownership” from kids  and the audience? 

[beastfan11]

Here’s to hoping for a few more years of PT Encore. Wish I could’ve made it up for the last show today. 
 

(also, here to hoping for more PT in the future, but I digress..)

[brenthodge]

Off the rails actually holds together better without the kid. It was a great idea for the 50th, but once the gag is out, it’s kinda cheesy (plus they already had to cut all the “too short” stuff since the twins shot up to like 6’ since last year) . I’d say tweak it a bit better to still pull in the history, you could still have the “you can do anything” awe shucks crap -without the “oops I wandered into a show” act that really doesn’t work any more. Move it into Festhaus with a slightly modified set, good lighting, better sound, no daylight to fight the LED screen and it could run a few more years. Almost a “signature show” since it is tied to the history and thrills of the park. 

[BeeastFarmer]

Anyone here able to see PTE for its last shows today?  If so, any clue about if they will disappear into the mist or won't be seen again til next summer?

[beastfan11]

2 minutes ago, BeeastFarmer said:

Anyone here able to see PTE for its last shows today?  If so, any clue about if they will disappear into the mist or won't be seen again til next summer?

Don’t know about next year, but per the Season Passholder’s Facebook group the turnout for the final show drew lines that reached back towards Delirium. I think the popularity could justify a third run.  

[BeeastFarmer]

Yes, I saw that!  I'm extremely bummed that I wasn't able to go on Wednesday ( I was in the hospital), and I can not make it to the weekend shows because of work.  I'm hoping they give an encore season!

40 minutes ago, beastfan11 said:

Don’t know about next year, but per the Season Passholder’s Facebook group the turnout for the final show drew lines that reached back towards Delirium. I think the popularity could justify a third run.  

 

[Michael H]

46 minutes ago, beastfan11 said:

Don’t know about next year, but per the Season Passholder’s Facebook group the turnout for the final show drew lines that reached back towards Delirium. I think the popularity could justify a third run.  

I was there today for the shows last day and  Phantoms 1st show at 2 00 was full and long lines getting in.  I sure hope it comes back next year.  I love that show.

[robintodd]

1 hour ago, BeeastFarmer said:

Anyone here able to see PTE for its last shows today?  If so, any clue about if they will disappear into the mist or won't be seen again til next summer?

I was at the 2 oclock show and the last show.  Alas I feel Phantom will not make it's return next year.  Instead of the "we'll see you next season" that they did last year, they thanked the crowd for the support over the last 2.  Noone came out for the meet and greet after the performance and serveral references were made during the show that it was the "last one".  It certainly had the feeling of a final curtain call.  Maestro even shook Larry's hand at the apropriate spot which drew quite the response from eveyone there.  So many inside jokes, the Maestro's first call for applause for himself was so long he had to tell everyone to stop!  The love was flowing to and from the stage it will be a memory I will carry with me always.  

Special shout out to the two young men who dressed up as Legless Larry and Maestro, both with blue face paint.  You two definitely added to the ambiance.

I didn't get the Vinyl soundtrack I wanted, nor a picture of the cast in and out of makeup (but still in costume).  I hope someone did get that shot for the cast as a keepsake.  I did get merch for a show that I will be sporting thorughout the years.

So it is with a bit of sadness that I say farewell to this wonderful, top of the line show.  Happy Feet is definitely the best act of any show at anytime in the  history of that theatre and Phantom is the greatest show it's ever seen (Celebration is a very close second).  (both my opinion of course, your mileage may vary  )  

Thanks to KI management, cast, crew and everyone who made the show possible (including RB & company).  It was nice to see a broadway style original show done at that theatre once again, and done right!  

[BoddaH1994]

Just now, robintodd said:

I was at the 2 oclock show and the last show.  Alas I feel Phantom will not make it's return next year.  Instead of the "we'll see you next season" that they did last year, they thanked the crowd for the support over the last 2.  Noone came out for the meet and greet after the performance and serveral references were made during the show that it was the "last one".  It certainly had the feeling of a final curtain call.  Maestro even shook Larry's hand at the apropriate spot which drew quite the response from eveyone there.  So many inside jokes, the Maestro's first call for applause for himself was so long he had to tell everyone to stop!  The love was flowing to and from the stage it will be a memory I will carry with me always.  

Special shout out to the two young men who dressed up as Legless Larry and Maestro, both with blue face paint.  You two definitely added to the ambiance.

I didn't get the Vinyl soundtrack I wanted, nor a picture of the cast in and out of makeup (but still in costume).  I hope someone did get that shot for the cast as a keepsake.  I did get merch for a show that I will be sporting thorughout the years.

So it is with a bit of sadness that I say farewell to this wonderful, top of the line show.  Happy Feet is definitely the best act of any show at anytimein the  history of that theatre and Phantom is the greatest show it's ever seen (Celebration is a very close second).  

Thanks to KI management, cast, crew and everyone who made the show possible (including RB & company).  It was nice to see a broadway style original show done at that theatre once again.  

I think y’all are reading way too far into all of this. The performers have no idea if it’s coming back. Management probably isn’t sure either. One thing to consider, though, is that since the development cost of the show is sunk, it would probably cost much less to bring the show back than it would to develop a new one. 

Of course there’s always the possibility of a dark theater, recycled show, etc. I would say the chances are about 50/50 of it coming back. A third year for a show would be kind of unheard of, but these are strange days. 

[SHMAN1]

On 8/13/2023 at 7:55 PM, BoddaH1994 said:

. A third year for a show would be kind of unheard of, but these are strange days. 

 

There have been shows with 3+ year runs though.....

Endless Summer On Ice - 2007, 2008, 2009

The Nickelodeon Celebration Parade - 2004, 2005, 2006

Monster Rock which is maybe going into it's what 7th or 8th year?

and of course the almost 10 year run of Hot Blooded

 

But yes, it is true that most of the time a show is a 2-year run at Kings Island.

[BoddaH1994]

19 hours ago, SHMAN1 said:

 

There have been shows with 3+ year runs though.....

Endless Summer On Ice - 2007, 2008, 2009

The Nickelodeon Celebration Parade - 2004, 2005, 2006

Monster Rock which is maybe going into it's what 7th or 8th year?

and of course the almost 10 year run of Hot Blooded

 

But yes, it is true that most of the time a show is a 2-year run at Kings Island.

Right, but I didn’t really have seasonal events in mind, which seem to stick around longer. See also, many Winterfest shows. 

I guess you could make the same argument for Carnivale as you would with the Nick Parade. 2005/6 was such an odd year, though, since it was the CBS split. Then there was the acquisition. 

I have to admit that I forgot that Endless Summer ran for three seasons. Great show, but three years of it… that seemed a bit taxing. 

If ever there was a year where there’d be another third season, it’s 2024.