Rides Department Budget Cuts

[brenthodge]

On 7/15/2023 at 7:36 AM, BoddaH1994 said:

Calling it now. 9:00 closes Su-Thu next year. Fireworks Fridays and Saturdays. 

You mean kinda like Disneyland? They run projections only shows weeknights and pyro weekend only most of the year. I’m not saying we are spoiled, but I was a bit surprised and impressed that FunFireworks and Fifty ran full show every night last year-many times to sone pretty puny crowds (for a very expensive show). I definitely could see that except maybe all nights in July -Early August. 

[super7]

CF has it all figured out. 

Attendance is down, so take away more to further drive down attendance  

they already love to chase away customers by cutting hours with no notice if attendance is low

Genius.  
 

No wonder CF stock is falling.  
They have no business plan to bring in more customers. They are dependent on perfect weather for  crowds.    Cost cutting will bring short term profits, but will chase away long-term revenues. 
 

 

[Benjamin22]

Just now, super7 said:

Cost cutting will bring short term profits, but will chase away long-term revenues. 

Yep this is the biggest thing. I don’t follow the industry nearly as much as I used to so I can’t really say why attendance is down (although I feel like KI is NOT one of the parks that have a major drop). But I do know for parks like KI decreasing the quality of the product where such a large amount of revenue comes from the passholder base will only do more harm than good. Just look at how people on this forum feel about the current situation and passes. If die hard fans are disappointed with the park I can imagine how ****ed some guests will be when their little kids can’t ride anything after 9.

[SonofBaconator]

When stuff starts to close, it becomes a snowball effect

[disco2000]

16 minutes ago, SonofBaconator said:

When stuff starts to close, it becomes a snowball effect

Just ask Kennywood...that now closes on Tuesdays....Or Idlewild that closes on Wednesdays...

Let's bring Chic-fil-a back and close CF parks on Sunday LOL 

[SonofBaconator]

I understand the logic behind some rides but at the end of the day, people are paying admission to be in the park- rides should be open.

I’m sure someone will make the excuse, “you’re not paying to ride the rides, your paying to get admission into the park.”

[BeeastFarmer]

I hate to agree with you @super7, but for once I can. It makes no sense if you have decreased attendance to do things that further decrease your attendance.  That's why you need competent people in leadership roles to bring people in. But in their infinite wisdom, they get rid of an industry veteran who knows how to keep people coming back and keep one who advertises attractions that are no longer there, does not proofread posts, and blocks people on social media. 

[SonofBaconator]

Imagine, for a moment, that malls are thriving.

There’s a food court that has multiple different options- all owned by the mall. After a while the mall starts to close down a few food stands early. So what happens? Less people show up to the mall and less people stay in the mall after a certain time which in turn prompts the mall to shut down even more stands.

[DoomPlague]

I know people on this forum are prone to overreacting to every thing the park does but based on this thread you would think they were closing half the rides all day and running one-train on coasters like a Six Flags park.

I'm already used to seeing Racer run with one train on weekdays and I was surprised to even see WWC running after 9 PM last season because its pretty common to close those rides in the evenings. If it gets worse, then you start to have a real concern argument but that's not guaranteed (see: slippery slope fallacy).  Considering the big debt that CF currently has, the serious inflation of the past two years and the way many other parks are ran (ie. way worse than this), these changes seem pretty reasonable to me.

 

[SonofBaconator]

10 minutes ago, DoomPlague said:

Considering the big debt that CF currently has, the serious inflation of the past two years and the way many other parks are ran (ie. way worse than this), these changes seem pretty reasonable to me.

I thought so too at first but I think people are more worried about what happens down the road of attendance drops further. You close rides early to save money, less people show up/stay at the park later in response to having less options, you close more rides and food stand early because there’s not enough guests to justify keeping them staffed, and the cycle continues.

[FUN&ONLY!]

I remember reading a quote from Mike Koontz in Kings Island: A Ride Through Time about the difference between Kings Island’s operations under Paramount and Cedar Fair. He pointed out that, unlike Paramount, Cedar Fair will staff and run the park to its fullest even on low attendance days. Obviously, Cedar Fair has taken a different approach as of late.

I still applaud Kings Island for running max trains on its rollercoasters even on low attendance days (except with The Racer now), but it is ridiculous that there are now MANY attractions that do not open or close with the park. This is a far cry from Mike Koontz’s quote about Cedar Fair operations. It is even worse that these closures are pre-planned and cannot easily be changed if the park ends up being busy on a weekday. Before the storms hit today, the park was decently crowded. However, The Racer built up a decent line because it wasn’t racing and the train cars were bursting at the seams because only one train with three cars was operating (instead of the usual six cars) to take people to and from Soak City.

[super7]

Running one side of Racer in the name of penny pinching is ridiculous.    There are a few racing roller coasters left in this world, and Kings Island has one of them and refuses  (at times) to give the customers this unique experience.  
 

It’s an average coaster at best when one side runs.  When it races, it’s a fun exciting, experience because of the competition and interaction with the other train and riders. 
 

Plus is a capacity hog that can give customers a coaster ride with little wait.   Anytime customers wait less they are happier. They open the second side late and close it early even on busy days.

Kings Dominion hardly races there’s at all anymore. Even some Saturdays.

Chipping away at great experiences piece by piece adds up to a lesser experience. 
 

No, its not Six Flags……yet.   They haven’t closed entire park sections for the year and there aren’t weeds growing instead of flowers.  

[SonofBaconator]

1 hour ago, FUN&ONLY! said:

train cars were bursting at the seams because only one train with three cars was operating (instead of the usual six cars) to take people to and from Soak City.

That’s rare. Typically one train/ 3 car operations happens when they only want to staff one conductor per train. Since the train ride goes through tighter curves, you need a conductor on each end to oversee the whole train- the first 3 cars are supervised by the front conductor and the last 3 are supervised by the back conductor. 

I rode last year with 3 car ops once but I believe it had rained earlier that day. Typically you will see 3 car ops when the park has lower attendance like weekdays before Memorial Day weekend. They only used to run 3 car ops in the fall because the old Haunt platform could only accommodate 3 cars.

Sounds to me like they were operating at the bare minimum. I’m not sure how hard it is to find one more person to supervise the back half of the train to allow 6 car ops but I’m not a scheduler.

[disco2000]

4 hours ago, SonofBaconator said:

That’s rare. Typically one train/ 3 car operations happens when they only want to staff one conductor per train. Since the train ride goes through tighter curves, you need a conductor on each end to oversee the whole train- the first 3 cars are supervised by the front conductor and the last 3 are supervised by the back conductor. 

I rode last year with 3 car ops once but I believe it had rained earlier that day. Typically you will see 3 car ops when the park has lower attendance like weekdays before Memorial Day weekend. They only used to run 3 car ops in the fall because the old Haunt platform could only accommodate 3 cars.

Sounds to me like they were operating at the bare minimum. I’m not sure how hard it is to find one more person to supervise the back half of the train to allow 6 car ops but I’m not a scheduler.

Unfortunately, it isn't rare now as this is part of their budget cuts for weekday operation....

[brenthodge]

7 hours ago, DoomPlague said:

I know people on this forum are prone to overreacting to every thing the park does but based on this thread you would think they were closing half the rides all day and running one-train on coasters like a Six Flags park.

I'm already used to seeing Racer run with one train on weekdays and I was surprised to even see WWC running after 9 PM last season because its pretty common to close those rides in the evenings. If it gets worse, then you start to have a real concern argument but that's not guaranteed (see: slippery slope fallacy).  Considering the big debt that CF currently has, the serious inflation of the past two years and the way many other parks are ran (ie. way worse than this), these changes seem pretty reasonable to me.

 

Agree on The Racer thing. It seems like it was off and on like this all the time with one side down. Seems like now it’s just an “official” thing. Overall I don’t thing it’s that bad-there have always been “hit or miss” food stands at KI- the list of closed venues is even more staggering at Disney with their attendance and world-wide status. Been that way for years there as well. I get that as a passholder I can have a “shrug my shoulders and say ‘oh well, I’ll catch it next time” approach, but day ticket customers should be more in their focus. 

[brenthodge]

6 hours ago, super7 said:

Running one side of Racer in the name of penny pinching is ridiculous.    There are a few racing roller coasters left in this world, and Kings Island has one of them and refuses  (at times) to give the customers this unique experience.  
 

It’s an average coaster at best when one side runs.  When it races, it’s a fun exciting, experience because of the competition and interaction with the other train and riders. 
 

Plus is a capacity hog that can give customers a coaster ride with little wait.   Anytime customers wait less they are happier. They open the second side late and close it early even on busy days.

Kings Dominion hardly races there’s at all anymore. Even some Saturdays.

Chipping away at great experiences piece by piece adds up to a lesser experience. 
 

No, its not Six Flags……yet.   They haven’t closed entire park sections for the year and there aren’t weeds growing instead of flowers.  

Well, there are quite a few weeds. Lol

[teenageninja]

Everyone blasting the communications department, but this was likely an Operations move.  They have goals and targets for the year and they obviously are over their budget, this is a way for them to get back under budget by slashing hours on rides that have poor ridership during these times.

I'd imagine you'll notice the park looking dirtier as well, because they probably slashed hours in Park Services as well.

[jdf21972]

Gonna call my shot : Early Ride time eliminated for 2024. Restaurants close at 7pm on weekdays,
Haunt from 6-11pm, Winterfest rides close at 9pm, during spring / summer close rides at 9:30 except for Beast and Pass Perks quietly goes away.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[chad_1138]

37 minutes ago, jdf21972 said:

Gonna call my shot : Early Ride time eliminated for 2024. Restaurants close at 7pm on weekdays,
Haunt from 6-11pm, Winterfest rides close at 9pm, close rides at 9:30 except for Beast and Pass Perks quietly goes away.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'll one up you: Gonna call this will be my last year with passes.

One thought I had today about The Racer, anyone else find it interesting that the weekday Racer shutdown happened right after Don H. departed KI?

[silver2005]

Even KD always races on Racer 75 with a synced chain lift to boot. 

[super7]

14 hours ago, silver2005 said:

Even KD always races on Racer 75 with a synced chain lift to boot. 

Maybe you hit it in lucky days.  I have been to KD over the past several years and it races maybe 25% of the days at best on my visits .  Even one side on some Saturdays. 
 

They synced lift hills was great when they installed it but now one side always leaves the top a train ahead and there is never an actual race

[Gordon Bombay]

Misread. Plz Delete.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Gordon Bombay
Chad?

[BeeastFarmer]

It's a strange world we live in where Kentucky Kingdom is adding hours and Kings Island is setting the stage to reduce hours. 

[TOPGUN1993]

Cedar Point has opened attractions a hour or so after opening for a number of years now.

Example - Power Tower https://www.cedarpoint.com/rides-experiences/power-tower 

Makes sense, not much demand for Power Tower 10am-11am. 

[disco2000]

9 minutes ago, TOPGUN1993 said:

Cedar Point has opened attractions a hour or so after opening for a number of years now.

Example - Power Tower https://www.cedarpoint.com/rides-experiences/power-tower 

Makes sense, not much demand for Power Tower 10am-11am. 

 

Is that why Steel Vengeance usually opens late 

 

But that is a different scenario - CP posts that it will open at 11am.

KI made this change for budget cuts mid-season and these reduced hours do not show up on the ride write-up on the website.

[silver2005]

53 minutes ago, super7 said:

No they don’t.  I have been to KD over the past several years and it races maybe 25% of the days at best.  Even one side on some Saturdays. 
 

They synced lift hills was great when they installed it but now one side always leaves the top a train ahead and there is never an actual race

I went on a slow Monday and they I never saw them not race. 

[FUN&ONLY!]

2 hours ago, jdf21972 said:

Gonna call my shot : Early Ride time eliminated for 2024. Restaurants close at 7pm on weekdays,
Haunt from 6-11pm, Winterfest rides close at 9pm, during spring / summer close rides at 9:30 except for Beast and Pass Perks quietly goes away.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is extreme. If restaurants closed at 7:00 PM on weekdays, then the park would be making no money the last few hours of the day. Kings Island is very aware that rides closing early and opening late will have a negative impact on the guest experience, which is why we are seeing the cuts we are seeing. Kings Island wants to make them as unnoticeable as possible to the average guest.

The budget cuts are only temporary for now. The water rides and train have had their hours cut in years past but all operated 10:00 AM to 10:00 PM at the start of last year. The Racer used to not race everyday, but it has up until recently. Rivertown Freestyle used to open a couple times a year, but it was open almost daily last year. The point is, that if and when Kings Island has the budget to operate these rides like it did before, they will. Trust me, Kings Island’s operations team wants every ride open from open to close. Corporate’s budget is likely what is holding them back. These budget cuts, although more extensive than usual, happen very often. It was about this time last year when water rides and the train started closing early due to budget constraints. It was also about this time last year when Rivertown Freestyle stopped being open daily due to budget constraints. I don’t like the current situation, but I am optimistic that things will be better next year.

[SonofBaconator]

8 hours ago, disco2000 said:

Unfortunately, it isn't rare now as this is part of their budget cuts for weekday operation....

It looks like 6 passenger car operation to me:

[brenthodge]

2 hours ago, BeeastFarmer said:

It's a strange world we live in where Kentucky Kingdom is adding hours and Kings Island is setting the stage to reduce hours. 

Wonder if that has anything to do with moving CARNIVALE parade up to 7 this year. Easier to shave off an hour if most of the major stuff is done  they’ve shown they are cool doing fireworks at 9 a few times this year 

[BeeastFarmer]

Moving it up only, IMHO, has to do with potentially closing early. 

The floats are supposed to be lit up for full effect. Why even bother with having the lights on at 7 pm in July and August. If I recall correctly, year one of carnival, they did the parade at 8pm and the lights were very disappointing.

Will we have July 4 fireworks at 7 pm next year?  Did you see the fiasco at KD when they attempted fireworks while the sun was out.

I continue to be gravely concerned about the future of our park as we have experienced it in recent years.