disco2000

I would say most here probably concluded that this park was not going to re-open.

That is certainly not the reason why Drop Tower is down. It has been closed since early August when a nasty storm rolled thru....

The bring a friend was the same last year as it is this year as it has been since they started offering this promotion... It it always good any operating day but Saturdays and the Sunday of Labor Day weekend. Where does it say not good on the weekdays? It doesn't...It says good any public operating day between 8/11 and 10/30 except for Saturdays and one Sunday 9/4. Now compare when the passes go on sale to the calendar, and there not many weekdays available, but you could have certainly used it during the weekday after the passes went on sale. You can use it on Fridays thru the end of October.

Life isn't fair... Did you read the policy - it doesn't say the parents have to hold their kids hand and be with them nonstop LOL. They have to enter the park with them and be available by phone in the park if they let the kids go off by themselves and they need to be able to prove they are in the park when security stops the kids...I suspect by calling the parents and security goes to the parents location within the park....so some of your early days with your parents back in the 90s would still be possible with said chaperone policy... Well that is until parents leave and get busted not being in the park and then they ratchet down the requirements to have to be present with the minors at all times LOL... I suspect that Knott's and Carowinds will still see the crowds and the concern about the financial damage this will cause will go out the window. As I and others have said, I seriously doubt the teen crowd is spending cash in the park...

The park has decided that security cannot be everywhere at the same time, so they decided to implement a chaperone policy to potentially prevent it on the front end...much easier to enforce that policy at the front gate and deny entry and then, because of that policy, they have the ability to stop any group in the park without a chaperone to confirm said chaperone is still on park premises than it is to staff, monitor and enforce no fights, line jumping, etc. policy within 300+ acres... Regarding the murders on Wonderland that you love to keep bringing up, everyone involved (victim and perps) were 21 or under....so in all likelihood they were probably there in groups of people that would not have been present with a chaperone policy in place... So based on those ages, why don't we just make the age limit 21 and above LOL... Plus times and policies have changed since those murders as well, along with since the parks first opened. We could get into a whole discussion about the why there have been changes in societal behavior over the years, but then it will turn political and not worth going down that path (in addition to being against the TOS), so let's simply leave it with changing times calls for changing measures and approaches to how to address these issues.. Are there totally behaving minors in the park - absolutely. Are their mis-behaving adults in the park - absolutely. Rule-breakers come in all ages. But when the park analyzes that data and the majority of security calls are with minors, that is how and why they are targeted for policy and enforcement.... And parks have to implement park specific rules - at KI Haunt you can not re-enter, but at CP you can. Different crowd, different set of rules. You do realize you are in the minority in this, um, minority debate LOL. And from what I can tell, this policy doesn't impact your ability to attend the park at all???

https://www.facebook.com/carowinds/photos/a.125492718598/10160055444008599/ https://www.carowinds.com/events/scarowinds/visitation-information https://twitter.com/Carowinds/status/1572284499987398657?s=20&t=8TUU05G1RYEC1TRJPQIdLA

Chaperone policy or eliminate Haunt? And before you start the argument that Haunt makes too much money to eliminate, CF has dropped Haunt at other parks in favor of family friendly events. Do you really think these teens are actually spending money in the park to justify the event? And yes if they wanted to they could make it an over 21 age requirement, especially since alcohol is available. Sure there are bad apples in every age group, but it is the teen group that continues to demonstrate the most problems. Further, each park draws a different crowd. As I said above, CP doesn't need a chaperone policy as it is a different crowd than a Carowinds or KI. A little hard for parents to drop teens off at CP...

How about what will it take to run Racer backwards...

It is usually operational during Haunt. KI is really good at getting rides going, so I suspect it is probably they are waiting on a part that needs to come from the manufacturer and the relationship with the manufacturer probably isn't going to result in a priority... We have had several rides go down due to waiting on a part. I know Delirium has in the past and I believe Drop Tower has as well.

Toss in these donuts and I'm in lol https://www.wlwt.com/article/doughnut-shop-selling-chili-dip-donut-skyline-chili/41230637

You can get them at the front where you get the FL wristbands, but for anyone that shows up when that is closed then they have to go to guest services. Another thing that shows the money grab nature of this plan - why not give the VIP lounge a printer to be able to print these...or a self serve kiosk...

^exactly- and once they modify/restrict/remove that benefit, there really isn't anything left at that point. Con job of the year lol.

^True, but you see way more under 13 years olds than you would expect to see as well. Now that would be funny to see them screw over Prestige passholders even more LOL. And if they did take Haunt away from gold passholders at KI, then it screws over the CP Prestige+ passholder that would visit KI as that pass is considered a gold pass at other CF parks (certainly doesn't sound like an elevated pass offering to me as it should have been like a platinum at other parks) (last bullet): https://www.cedarpoint.com/blog/2022/guide-to-2023-season-passes

If Haunt truly catered to teenagers and was their target audience then alcoholic beverages would not be sold that night LOL... Although the website tries to make it clear that the event is not meant for young children, KI Haunt still sees a lot of kids under 13 at the park and won't turn families away at the gate. Strollers going thru mazes. Wagons being pulled with little ones. Families don't care what the website says - we have our passes and we are going to use them LOL. Look at all the comments from families on FB stating how they have no problem taking their single-digit age children to Haunt and all the gripes about the new bag policy won't allow them to bring in their diaper bag in for their baby.... I can also see the demographic of the audience come into play as well. I was at HalloWeekends last night and have gone many years in the past. It is crazy crowded (especially from Columbus day to end of season) and sure they have incidents like other parks, but it isn't overrun by teenagers and most guests are behaving (at least in my experiences compared to at KI and Carowinds). It is a lot harder for teens to be dropped off at CP for the night than say a Carowinds or KI. A chaperone policy wouldn't have much impact at CP. I see the following scenarios going forward (not necessarily this year but in the future years) (although I start with KI, it could be any park with Haunt): KI continue as is with fingers crossed that nothing bad happens to warrant a chaperone policy or worse. KI gets proactive and implements the chaperone policy now before Haunt starts and takes the abuse on the front end. KI goes to a new ticketed event and season passes are not valid (imagine the griping that would get) as a way to try to control the crowd. KI moves away from Haunt to a more family friendly event. Some other idea that someone else thinks up. What I expect to happen short term is that they will play the wait and see game. Knott's Scary Farm starts next weekend and has a chaperone policy in place - that will help guide the chain as to the impact that truly has on the event. But long term, as I mentioned, CF execs has the data on a family friendly tricks and treats only event from 2020 and data on Haunt "post" pandemic, and CP has numbers on expanding Haunt to Thursdays and Sundays, so CF has a wealth of data to go by to make a financial decision over an emotion decision. We have already seen them eliminate Haunt at other parks. And then add this year the data from Knott's and any other park that implements a chaperone policy and the impact that has to operations. Actually from Knott's they will have data on it being a separate event AND a chaperone policy. They have been a separate event for years. And I know some people will say getting rid of Haunt or a separate ticketed event will never happen, yet people said Winterfest would never happen again also.... Changing times calls for changing measures...

At this point I think Prestige will be a one off pass. With the constant taking away of benefits, it really is becoming hard for even the most die-hard KI loving fans to see the benefit of the pass. Without significant improvements to the benefits offering for next year, once the other benefits for 2023 like preferred parking and reserved area in Soak City (already downgraded from a VIP area) kick in and we see that they are always full and people are not getting the benefit, why renew with it?

The bigger question will be does CF take note and get ahead of this and implement a chaperone policy chain-wide or do they wait for a truly bad event happen to the point that they have to cancel the whole event at a park for the rest of the season? As we have seen, CF has eliminated Haunt at other parks in favor of a family friendly event. KI has data on a family friendly tricks and treats only event from 2020 and data on Haunt "post" pandemic, and CP has numbers on expanding Haunt to Thursdays and Sundays, so CF has a wealth of data to go by to make a financial decision over an emotion decision. I am sure someone is crunching the numbers and doing the analysis to determine if Haunt should continue.

Sorry for double post, but Carowinds just issued a statement: https://twitter.com/Carowinds/status/1571353489523048448?s=20&t=gwsigAwheKO9o4xV-EFmFg

Still a developing story and this article is full of errors. Social Media is reporting they closed early (nothing on official Carowinds sites yet - EDIT - they did about 12:30) due to fights and rumors of guns. https://snbc13.com/carowinds-shooting-scarowinds-amusement-park-evacuated-after-guns-brandished-charlotte-nc/?fbclid=IwAR1AA3RC-J6nxtnmNl4wCQxmYEjafU2c4p3yUwsCte3NEA66VAS_UxmfT9c&mibextid=YSzJz1 Are they next park to see a curfew? Edit: adding more news links until another post or Carowind issues a statement: https://www.wbtv.com/2022/09/18/carowinds-says-no-guns-park-cites-unruly-behavior-reason-police-presence/ https://statefirstnews.com/2022/09/18/update-today-carowinds-shooting-active-shooter-scarowinds-amusement-park-evacuated-after-guns-brandished/

Simply asking a question LOL. And a further devaluing of the pass people purchased...

Will Prestige get VIP lounge for one hour on Sept 24th or do they just not open it that night...

I am trying to cut back with no more than two per post LOL

Attendance is a weird dynamic that publicly traded amusement parks and shareholders use as a metric, but it would be nice to see this trend change from the past, but perception plays a big part in it. Past years, all shareholders and the Board cared about was attendance, attendance, attendance. For years we would see record attendance, yet per cap spending was going down. Anytime there was a dip in anything, Bring a Friend for $9.99 days happened to increase the attendance. Attendance going down is a perceived problem with publicly traded companies and share value usually takes a hit, even if the revenue and profit are records. For example, look what happened to their unit price after each CF "quarterly" or update announcement about record revenues but lower attendance...it's value dropped on average about 6% those days... When the narrative and perception is that attendance is the guiding factor, that is when we see the gate given away and the attention to the "little things" pushed aside. And then it brings in a different kind of guest that doesn't spend anything once in the park, so revenues actually decline on a per cap basis. If the perception and narrative could be changed to focus on revenue and profit with attendance as a lesser factor, then I think we will continue to see all the "little things" improvements we have been seeing. Personally I think that is the direction CF is going, at least with KI. Did we see any of the crazy cheap Bring a Friend deals this year after their update indicated reduced attendance - Nope! That is a big shift from years past. I remember back in 2018 after the July update showed CF drop in attendance, the next day was wholesale cuts and BAF cheap days. Chainwide, many still question the whole cheap gold pass at CP and how for being the destination and flagship park, they are still giving away the gate, but that is another topic and discussion to go somewhere else LOL. I think KI has recognized that when you focus on the "little things" then the revenue and profit increase because people are spending more. This has been a multi-year initiative that started with the I-street revamp, return of the antique cars, and fixing the glockenspiel, all the way through to fixing the carousel organ and Phantom Theater Encore and everything in between. And then a funny thing happens...you get increased visits and per cap spending despite not giving away the gate.... Why... because a well-kept park with attention to detail is one of the subconscious acts that causes the non-riders to thrill seekers to want to spend more time in the park. Ambiance plays a bigger role than people admit or think about. And with that increased time comes more spending. I do not think the well-received 50th merchandise and all the collector pins of former rides, etc. would be as hot selling as they are if the attention to detail and pulling on the emotional memory strings had not been started with all the little things improvements. They mentioned the "dip" in attendance is mainly due to the lack of group sales and picnics as many companies have yet to re-engage in those types of events, but outside of those groups, the attendance is up. Based on season pass sales, next year will probably see both an increase in attendance and per cap spending, maybe both as records, as I think many of the group sales and picnics will start picking back up.

Cutting the grass

I totally agree with you, but some think that Beast work, Dback painting, parking lot, etc. are maintenance things that aren't a reason to get a pass...

You mean like seeing prior year ornaments for sale during WF that were not even marked down LOL