bkroz Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 That is what I thought. To the points in your post GYK, as fast as it worked out for Kock owners; I think maybe the fair board was not keen on Ed opening that park even if he had his own funds. I would say there's a lot of truth to that. But we may never know, because his asking for public financing appeared to have left a sour taste in many people's mouths. Why else could one object to nearly a thousand new jobs, a re-stimulated local economy, and a man who knows his stuff at the helm? Having concurrently operated a successful theme, the Kochs came to the table with their own funding and only asked for the tax incentives offered to any business that would consider moving to Louisville (as far as I know), which sounds better from a political standpoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sccard01 Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 So is Ed Hart totally out of the picture with the park now? He's out of the public eye for sure. However, you never know he's the creater of the park he could work with the family on the DL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flightoffear1996 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 How much land does the park even have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I'd still be skeptical. Today was an announcement that they signed a lease. They still say they're going out to secure financing and plan to invest 15-20 million dollars. 15-20 million to re-start a full scale water park and a lineup of rides that haven't run in two years? And why start up another park, an hour away from your other location with the same incentives (free drinks etc.)? I'm not holding my breath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyGuy4KI Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I'd still be skeptical. Today was an announcement that they signed a lease. They still say they're going out to secure financing and plan to invest 15-20 million dollars. 15-20 million to re-start a full scale water park and a lineup of rides that haven't run in two years? And why start up another park, an hour away from your other location with the same incentives (free drinks etc.)? I'm not holding my breath. I agree that this is going to have an impact on HW and in some ways does not make sense. I hope they know what they are getting into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sccard01 Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 How much land does the park even have? Right now the park takes up 60 acres. However, the park does have an additional 40-50 acres for expansion. BTW, The expansion land sits away from the Airport midways, which means that land could hold attractions up to the parks height limit of 200ft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 The Koch Family is going to invest $15 to $20 million to reopen Kentucky Kingdom? What if I told you that I know someone that has photos of the state that park is in as it stands now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sccard01 Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 There has been several photo updates of the park since its closure. The last photos I've saw from last May and October which shows the park just Winterized. The park looks like it can open in a couple of months but thats not possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyGuy4KI Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 The Koch Family is going to invest $15 to $20 million to reopen Kentucky Kingdom? What if I told you that I know someone that has photos of the state that park is in as it stands now? It might be in bad shape, but if they are going to put the Koch name on the place, I am sure they will be getting in a respectable condition before they open it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 The Koch Family is going to invest $15 to $20 million to reopen Kentucky Kingdom? What if I told you that I know someone that has photos of the state that park is in as it stands now? That state, I trust, would be Kentucky? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKIDelirium Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Here's a picture of the state the park is in as it stands now: 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sccard01 Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 These photo where taken last May. http://savekentuckykingdom.com/Kentucky_Kingdom/Recent_Photos.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongliveKingsCobra Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Those photos are just depressing.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Those photos are very very selective.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 ...if they are going to put the Koch name on the place, I am sure they will be getting in a respectable condition before they open it. While that may be true, and the Koch's have done well at HW, can they rehab an entire park for 20 million this time next year? That number seems awfully small. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malem Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 The rent of $400k increasing to $1M plus a share of gross revenue seems to value the existing park at $18-20M. It's interesting that the Kochs are expecting to attract 600k visitors in the first year - more than in the final year of Six Flags and with Chang - after making a (relatively) minimal capital investment. Given their conservative management style, they must see more potential in the park than is apparent. As for negative effects on Holiday World, the impact will almost certainly be less than if Kentucky Kingdom were operated as a competitor. Operating both parks together will realize some significant cost synergies, especially in marketing. Setting up a separate company and securing bank loans for the initial capital investment - the vast majority of which will be repairs to existing improvements owned by the state - reduces the risk to the Kochs and Holiday World significantly. One wonders, though, who will own new attractions added to the park. The Kochs don't want to be in a legal situation like Six Flags found themselves in after ending their lease. The most detailed article I've seen on this is http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20120223/NEWS01/302230069/kentucky-kingdom-lease?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CHome , but I can't find information on how much capital investment the Fair Board is requiring and who will own these improvements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIfan1980 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 I'd be interested to know how the terms of this lease compare to what Six Flags was offering when they renegotiated during bankruptcy prior to walking away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Six Flags attempted to renegotiate but the Fair Board wasn't interested in even talking. Mr. Workman was then shocked when the lease was rejected during bankruptcy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malem Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Six Flags was paying ~$3M/year plus additional revenue sharing payments. They were also making tax payments to the city and state, resulting in significant additional revenue. It's fair to say that the renegotiated lease would have resulted in significantly more revenue for the state than this deal will 3 years later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIfan1980 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Thanks guys - interesting data. May help explain why the governor is reportedly interested in replacing Mr. Workman. I also have to admit that I'm surprised as I predicted KK would never reopen (and that the Koch's wouldnt be interested). While I know nothing is guaranteed, this is a big step. I wish them and the fans of the park the best in this endeavor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKI2006 Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Here are another couple of (shorter) articles if you don't want to read the three page story. http://www.wave3.com...-summary-points http://www.wave3.com...alk-in-may-2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 To me, the more interesting part of the story occurred after the Bluegrass Boardwalk vote. Seems the Fair Board held a closed door meeting where the "future" of Mr Harold Workman (CEO of Kentucky Fair and Expo) was discussed. Now, I'm a layman... but if I had to guess... I'd speculate that the decision to move forward with the park initiative somehow directly involves to the removal of Workman. One could "assume" that the Governor, State and Fairboard have had enough of Mr Workmans "involvement." http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20120223/NEWS01/302230038/Kentucky-State-Fair-board-seeks-succession-plan-Harold-Workman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyGuy4KI Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 ...if they are going to put the Koch name on the place, I am sure they will be getting in a respectable condition before they open it. While that may be true, and the Koch's have done well at HW, can they rehab an entire park for 20 million this time next year? That number seems awfully small. Just guessing, but maybe they are not planning on opening everything up the first year? Maybe the focus will be the water park, select flats and just a few of the coasters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westcoaster Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Sure hope at least 2 coasters the pingeons blizzard river (which should be themed to some degree), and one heck of a flat selection, and a great ferris wheel, (plus a great kids land). maybe they will pay for licensing for the kids land(or what would their mascots be?). Bluegrass Boardwalk is sticking with me now. What new attractions too.... Wow maybe a 2 day pass to holidayworld/Bluegrass boardwalk the ky thrills and chills park: We shall see. Good luck Kochs so happy for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 80 acres. 800 seasonal employees. Financing not yet firm. Park will have thrills but not be a thrill park. Not worried about competition with Holiday World. Park seen like Charlie Brown's Christmas Tree. Just like Six Flags, parking decisions are out of the Koch's hands: http://m.wdrb.com/default.aspx?pid=2705&wnfeedurl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.wdrb.com%2fstory%2f17009251%2fholiday-world-president-talks-about-plans-for-ky-kingdom%3fclienttype%3drssstory I wish I could say this article gives me great confidence that the Kochs did their due diligence and have a reasonable long term prospect for success. I wish I could say that. I wonder what the termination clause in the lease provides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldiesmann Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Full version of that article, complete with video of the interview with Dan Koch: http://www.wdrb.com/...-for-ky-kingdom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldiesmann Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Interesting quote from that article: That will include, Koch says, "providing the unique guest experience that only Holiday World can which is free soft drinks, free sun screen, free WiFi, and make customers happy, guests happy with a value-based, fun, family experience. Unique to a large urban park perhaps, but definitely not unique to his parks. Another "BB" just 90 minutes down the road also offers free soft drinks, free sunscreen and a "value-based, fun, family experience", albeit on a much smaller scale and sans free WiFi (except at the campground). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 ...and did so after Holiday World. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldiesmann Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 ...and did so after Holiday World. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. That figures, considering the two parks are only two hours apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccarthysnerd Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I think that the free soft drinks Etc. are some of the very few similarities that will occur. I seriously don't think that they will be extremely similar. They will probably leave the main focus of HW to be the water park and KK the rides and roller coasters But I do know that they will both have very family friendly staff members, as HW already has. I have a very great doubt that excact duplicates of the Voyage and Wildebeast will appear at KK. To me it has seemed that HW's main focus has always been the WaterPark and KK's to mainly be a Theme Park although I do know that KK still DOES focus on having a water park and that HW DOES focus on having a theme park (Voyage which has been voted the best wooden coaster on the planet). I do hope that the Kochs have a good time with this and I think they will be great operators of the park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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