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The Giga Speculation Thread

SonofBaconator

By SonofBaconator,
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matt112986 KIC Enthusiast

matt112986

Posted
Posted
39 minutes ago, Ben43065 said:

 @FlightTimberHawk If you look at the reports from TEA they show that Kings Island attendance has been constantly growing and is by no means stagnant. Judging by how much is being invested into KI this year paints a very different picture then what your “inside” information is suggesting. A stagnant park doesn’t receive investment.

Have to agree here, just googling articles and all I see is how great the attendance is. Record attendance levels and almost constant growth. I don't get the "investments don't pay off at KI" argument, all the park announcements, earnings reports and estimates refute this theory. Just as an example -

“It's a little bit of a tough pill to swallow the softness we've seen in 2018, but quite frankly the performance, if we just gauge it versus the last five or six years, it's still a very good year for that park,” he said.

https://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/mystic-timbers-attendance-gains-fading-for-kings-island-

Despite the negative headline and the dip in sales it was still one of the best years of the past decade. Or how about this one?

Attendance at Ohio's Cedar Point was flat in 2017, while Kings Island saw a 2.5 percent increase in guests, due largely to the debut of new roller coaster Mystic Timbers.

https://www.cleveland.com/travel/2018/07/attendance_flat_at_cedar_point.html

I don't think a 2.5% increase (hundreds of thousands of people in KI's case) is a small amount.

 

And for those being asked about sources, this is how you do it. It may not be necessary but it will help prove your point.

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IndyGuy4KI
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Let me restate my last post. We are done with B&M vs Intamin.  It adds nothing to this thread. Any further posts will be removed.

fryoj
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To summarize the last 30 pages for those who don't want to read them: Intamin! No, B&m. No, Intamin. No B&M. But I reallllllllllllllllllly want an Intamin cause reasons. No, they break do

Gannersdaddy
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Found them. LOL

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BeeastFarmer KIC Legend

BeeastFarmer

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Posted

I think the Kings Parks have all gotten a pretty good shake under Cedar Fair, with Cwinds, Cland, and KI getting the most investment.  Of the legacy CF parks, CP has the most investment and it should as the flagship.  KI is definitely on a good path in my opinion.  I think a GiGa is in the works, but even if not in 2020, it will be even better

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gforce1994 KIC Legend

gforce1994

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, matt112986 said:

Have to agree here, just googling articles and all I see is how great the attendance is. Record attendance levels and almost constant growth. I don't get the "investments don't pay off at KI" argument, all the park announcements, earnings reports and estimates refute this theory. Just as an example -

“It's a little bit of a tough pill to swallow the softness we've seen in 2018, but quite frankly the performance, if we just gauge it versus the last five or six years, it's still a very good year for that park,” he said.

https://www.wcpo.com/news/insider/mystic-timbers-attendance-gains-fading-for-kings-island-

Despite the negative headline and the dip in sales it was still one of the best years of the past decade. Or how about this one?

Attendance at Ohio's Cedar Point was flat in 2017, while Kings Island saw a 2.5 percent increase in guests, due largely to the debut of new roller coaster Mystic Timbers.

https://www.cleveland.com/travel/2018/07/attendance_flat_at_cedar_point.html

I don't think a 2.5% increase (hundreds of thousands of people in KI's case) is a small amount.

 

And for those being asked about sources, this is how you do it. It may not be necessary but it will help prove your point.

2.5% increase was phenomenal imo. I’m curious how much the new Antiques will draw since that was a ride cherished by many.

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matt112986 KIC Enthusiast

matt112986

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The quote credits Mystic Timbers for most of the increase. I don't feel like dredging it up at the moment but didn't the park say they broke the attendance record or some record in late August? 

 

Edit: I may be mixed up about that year per a Cedar Fair press release. They did state that Mystic Timbers performed well:

Commenting on the 2017 season to-date, Matt Ouimet, Cedar Fair's chief executive officer, stated, "We are pleased with the guest response to our 2017 capital programs. Mystic Timbers, our world-class roller coaster at Kings Island, and our water park transformations at Knott's Berry Farm and Cedar Point Shores have delivered attendance above our expectations. However, we have experienced more than a few instances of unfavorable weather on some of our traditionally peak attendance days – including the recent Labor Day weekend - and it has proven difficult to fully recover these attendance shortfalls up to this point in time.

 

https://pointbuzz.com/Forums/Topic/cedar-fair-reports-attendance-and-revenues-through-labor-day-2

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Benjamin22 KIC Star Member

Benjamin22

Posted
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1 hour ago, Creed Bratton said:

I purposely make purchases in the park when I visit...whether small or big. 

I like to think my purchases go toward the next Capital project, whether or not it does.  

Maybe I should have told my self that when I added Fast Lane to my platinum passes.

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BuckeyeBond KIC Junky

BuckeyeBond

Posted
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17 hours ago, gforce1994 said:

2.5% increase was phenomenal imo. I’m curious how much the new Antiques will draw since that was a ride cherished by many.

I’m surprised it wasn’t higher honestly. With a brand new coaster and 30-40 extra days added to the season “WinterFest” it shocked me we only saw a 2.5% bump in attendance.

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fryoj KIC Star Member

fryoj

Posted
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3 hours ago, BuckeyeBond said:

I’m surprised it wasn’t higher honestly. With a brand new coaster and 30-40 extra days added to the season “WinterFest” it shocked me we only saw a 2.5% bump in attendance.

And considering the rest of their year they operate ~138 days, 23 more is quite a bit of added days. Granted, Winterfest doesn't draw the numbers per day that the rest of the season, but with 23 extra days plus a new highly hyped coaster a 2.5% increase does seem light.

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BuckeyeBond KIC Junky

BuckeyeBond

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22 minutes ago, fryoj said:

And considering the rest of their year they operate ~138 days, 23 more is quite a bit of added days. Granted, Winterfest doesn't draw the numbers per day that the rest of the season, but with 23 extra days plus a new highly hyped coaster a 2.5% increase does seem light.

That’s what I was thinking. I’m just surprised it was a little higher.

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FUN&ONLY! KIC Platinum Member

FUN&ONLY!

Posted
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If Kings Island decides to build their new rollercoaster back where Firehawk used to be, do you think that they will revamp and expand X-Base with new restaurants and possibly new flat rides? Just wondering because that is basically what Carowinds did with Copperhead Strike and the surrounding Blue Ridge Junction

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Joshua KIC Star Member

Joshua

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Posted
23 hours ago, silver2005 said:

^Where do you get the extra 30-40 days from?  Winterfest only added a few weekends.  

There's at least one or two weeks where the park is open for the full week during Winterfest. 

2 hours ago, FUN&ONLY! said:

If Kings Island decides to build their new rollercoaster back where Firehawk used to be, do you think that they will revamp and expand X-Base with new restaurants and possibly new flat rides? 

I hope so. I feel like that area has needed attention for quite a while now. I'd like to see a restaurant and maybe a dark ride added there. 

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BeastForever KIC Double Platinum Member

BeastForever

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On 3/26/2019 at 12:42 PM, FlightTimberHawk said:

I wouldn’t get my hopes up for a giga if I were you espeacilly if CF may spend elsewhere. Keep an eye out for a wing or flyer.

Not be blunt, but I cannot for the life of me understand why some are thinking that a flyer is within the reasonable realm of possibilities.

If this means anything, the flying concept has been available for nearly two decades now, and Cedar Fair has yet to originally install one (X-Flight opened under Six Flags). I'd think it be even more unlikely that they start on this concept at a park that just removed one. (And for this same reason, I'm skeptical as to whether we will see a flyer (albeit a B&M one) installed at CP or any CF park for this matter).

Personally, I give the chance of a flyer at KI about the same chance of a stand-up. Which is to say - practically zero.

On 3/26/2019 at 1:02 PM, FlightTimberHawk said:

Attendance, industry insight, ridership.

Banshee - while there was just a modest increase in attendance (+0.9) seen from its debut year, as far as ridership goes, it actually performed incredibly well - took in over 2,000,000 riders. Also there was a huge jump in attendance in 2015 (+2.9).  While that year also saw the additions of Woodstock Gliders, and Snoopy's Space Buggies, I can imagine a good amount of those extra attendees were going to experience Banshee for the first time after perhaps not having been able to make it out to KI the year before. Either way, the situation is most certainly not "stagnant"

Mystic Timbers - As noted above, 2017 was a particularly strong year for KI. While there were other factors at play, I would surmise based on how well-received the ride was by the average guest, it was a driving factor.

And its intectually dishonest to call it "one of the most expensive wooden coasters" (Do you mean in park history, or industry-wide?).

First off, as of a few years ago, Cedar Fair no longer releases official investment numbers on rides, as they consider it propriety. There is a number floating around on Wikipedia claiming  "$15,000,000" but I take with that with less than a grain of salt as there was not a reference attached to that claim.

Based on similiar rides and with inflation, I'd estimate MT to have cost somewhere between $10-12 million. Prowler for example, which opened in 2009, cost about $8 million. Typical GCIs are relatively inexpensive to large B&Ms such as DB ($22m) and Banshee ($24m). 

As for 2018? Yes, the park did have a disappointing year. However, this was not unique to KI, but chainwide - even at CP amidst opening Steel Vengeance. Barring the economy retracting significantly this upcoming summer, I'd predict a bounce-back year, particularly at KI with the long-awaited return of Antique Cars.

On 3/26/2019 at 12:42 PM, FlightTimberHawk said:

It just seems like something built up by fans more than legitimate proof.

While I will not deny there has sort of been an 'entitlement' aspect to all of this - almost to the point where it feels like were "owed" something (even though were not "owed" anything) - I'd say there's been plenty of legitimate circumstancial evidence to hypothesize a giga. I mean after all, there's way to have "legitimate proof" until its announced or if/when blueprints get leaked.

Let me put it this way...

Suppose that GM Mike Koontz didn't say at Coasterstock last year that he recommended a giga to the board, and there weren't NOC documents filed listing B&M for years 2018-2020, and that it wasn't true that KI outranks both CW and Carowinds (parks which both have a hyper and giga each)  by a large margin in revenue ?

Then yes, I guess you could see it as being 'built up by the fans more than legitimate proof'. But this simply isn't the case...

Hype surrounding SOB 2.0 last summer? Now THAT was built up entirely by the fans.

But project giga? Not nearly as much...

On 3/26/2019 at 12:42 PM, FlightTimberHawk said:

Thing is Fury was built because of the expanding market of the Carolinas, and was part of a massive investment by CF. KI hasn’t gotten that much out of Banshee (their biggest investment) and Mystic Timbers (one of the most expensive wooden coasters) return wise so a giga at a fairly stagnant park isn’t a wise decision.

Well, the thing is Mr. Koontz already had said that he recommended a giga to Cedar Fair. Therefore, you're implying the GM was unwise in doing so!  :lol:

 

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sixohdieselrage KIC Platinum Member

sixohdieselrage

Posted
Posted
On 3/27/2019 at 7:44 PM, ohiocoasterfan said:

@sixohdieselrage Do you have any aerial photos of the area around Racer and the former FH plot and DA? How about around Action Theater? Looks like you were up there on 3/19. Did you see anything going on in these areas?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I do, but I dont see anything worth uploading the pictures for. 

Just wait till Preview Night or opening day, then go ride WindSeeker. :)

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lifetimecoaster KIC Enthusiast

lifetimecoaster

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 The thing that I think a lot of folks on here are forgetting is that we're enthusiasts. It's nothing for us to make 4 or 5 trips a year to our favorite theme park. 10 to 15 times a year isn't even unheard of, but for the general public, you sometimes go once a year, every couple of years. New rides typically will draw a bigger crowd, but how many of those people are the enthusiasts that would have been there to ride their favorite coaster, and how many are the general public coming to the park for a day with their family? Life's expensive now a days. Here in Indianapolis, house prices are soaring to new heights (anecdotally, my neighborhood crested 200k for houses like mine, that I paid 115k for 10 years ago). The days of family vacations are getting slimmer. Do I believe a giga coaster would draw crowds? Sure. I'm certain it would draw me, and most of the forum members.... but I try to go at least 1 time a year to KI among my other favorite theme parks around the country. On the flip side of that, however, I am 100% certain that I'll make a couple trips this summer with my family, because I know my kids will love the new KMAA the same way I loved them when I was their age. Basically what I'm getting at here, is that throwing new and better coasters brings people that like coasters, but putting in flat rides and family experiences brings families, and while I eat at least 2 meals a day when I'm in the park on one of my "daddy is going coastering" days, I buy 8 meals a day, souvenirs, game play, and about 50 drinks when I'm there with my whole family. The money comes from the family friendly things to build the giant earth shattering coasters that we all love. 

 

All of that being said, BRING IN THE GIGA FOR '20!! 

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MDMC01 KIC Legend

MDMC01

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Well, we have a name at least... :lol:

I can see it now... "Coming in 2021, it's Gigabar, the 345 ft. tall coaster with an 85 degree first drop, that sets the bar for other coasters to follow. This coaster races along 6,392 ft of track at speeds of up to 91 mph. Gigabar... Set the Bar!" #setthebar

-MDMC, letting his imagination run wild!

 

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