Webcam Outage Discussion

[MrSourNinja]

33 minutes ago, spooky21 said:

I agree with silver 100% the way this forum has headed isn't good and I'm not surprised you don't see old members any more.  This place has become more of a chat room.

Forums are pretty much just chat rooms though no? Each thread is a chat room dedicated towards something specific?

[spooky21]

6 minutes ago, MrSourNinja said:

Forums are pretty much just chat rooms though no? Each thread is a chat room dedicated towards something specific?

Correct but look at how well we're staying on topic. I'm guilty of it now, but if a point isn't made then it will just get worse. I know of a few longtime members who will remain nameless who have left the site. All because of how some of you are, posting something off topic, going on a debate, whatever. Look at other coaster forums. None of them are like this. Even TPR is more on topic and in line, and that's saying something.

[silver2005]

There's one big point about the park transparency that keeps bring brought up that I'd like to dissect as well, the whole thing about how the Eiffel Tower is using power to use the elevators and lights and the webcams are off.  Most of these people are judging that based off of things they themselves admit to not knowing about, which is how they are using the electricity and stuff going on about electrical engineering.  You're basing your whole lack of transparency premise off of things you're guessing on.  There's no foundation to that argument coming from people who don't know about electrical engineering and acting like you know the park isn't telling the truth.  Why should I believe any of these claims from people who admit to not being entirely knowledgeable about the situation?  That's jumping to conclusions and going after the park with an accusation that isn't a light accusation.   Saying the park is lying or not being transparent isn't something to brush aside.  The act of the accusation and the framing of the argument is what I've been having a problem with.   There are other angles to seeing why the webcams are down to be acknowledged and people are posting like they've nailed it and can't accept other reasons no matter how plausible or true.   Those members are hammering and relying on those notions without being in a position to be knowledgeable to make those claims in the first place.  Unless you can make yourself credible by explaining why you know things and lay it out why (ex. actually being an electrical engineer and fully knowing how the park's and ET's power grid works), the claims of lack of transparency and/or lying hold no water.  

[sixohdieselrage]

@silver2005

Read through stuff bro. Again, some people aren't upset at "this is the whole reason", or so much blaming one thing or another. It's more of "we dont like being fed potential lies", or "someone for some reason screwed up". Screwed up by:

1. Horrible timing of these "software updates", if there were any. Which I highly doubt, as software updates NEVER take this long in this day in age. 
2. Not knowing how long this would theoretically take. Simple way, plan ahead of time, that way if you run into any issues, you have more time to fix said issues. 
3. Users not being able to see what some consider the coolest part of construction of a ride, the topping off. 

Again, why cant the park just come out and at least say "We apologize for the webcams being down. We are quickly working on having them operational again. In the meantime,  feel free to watch the media, stop by the park on the weekend, or view progress from authorized locations." Hardly anything has been said from them on the issue. And don't start on the whole "They don't owe you an explanation or webcams." 

[silver2005]

5 minutes ago, sixohdieselrage said:

@silver2005

Read through stuff bro. Again, some people aren't upset at "this is the whole reason", or so much blaming one thing or another. It's more of "we dont like being fed potential lies", or "someone for some reason screwed up". Screwed up by:

1. Horrible timing of these "software updates", if there were any. Which I highly doubt, as software updates NEVER take this long in this day in age. 
2. Not knowing how long this would theoretically take. Simple way, plan ahead of time, that way if you run into any issues, you have more time to fix said issues. 
3. Users not being able to see what some consider the coolest part of construction of a ride, the topping off. 

Again, why cant the park just come out and at least say "We apologize for the webcams being down. We are quickly working on having them operational again. In the meantime,  feel free to watch the media, stop by the park on the weekend, or view progress from authorized locations." Hardly anything has been said from them on the issue. And don't start on the whole "They don't owe you an explanation or webcams." 

But you nor any other member aren't in a position to know if they are potential lies because 1) none of you work for the park and 2) the park really doesn't owe explanations.  Don't brush that part aside. The best you guys are doing is guess-timations.  I'm guessing we're just simply not getting the explanation for this.  You're dropping a huge accusation towards the park for an event that doesn't warrant it.  Like, what good does it actually do to know why they're down?  What does the park telling people why actually achieve?  They don't tell you what's wrong with individual rides when they're down, right?  What's the difference with how they don't tell you why the webcams are down?  Those 2 are equivalent responses and the park has been consistent on that.  They're still documenting the construction of Orion.  There's no doubt they won't.   I don't get your guys' end goal in going through all this.  

[PilotDude]

21 minutes ago, sixohdieselrage said:

@silver2005

Read through stuff bro. Again, some people aren't upset at "this is the whole reason", or so much blaming one thing or another. It's more of "we dont like being fed potential lies", or "someone for some reason screwed up". Screwed up by:

1. Horrible timing of these "software updates", if there were any. Which I highly doubt, as software updates NEVER take this long in this day in age. 
2. Not knowing how long this would theoretically take. Simple way, plan ahead of time, that way if you run into any issues, you have more time to fix said issues. 
3. Users not being able to see what some consider the coolest part of construction of a ride, the topping off. 

Again, why cant the park just come out and at least say "We apologize for the webcams being down. We are quickly working on having them operational again. In the meantime,  feel free to watch the media, stop by the park on the weekend, or view progress from authorized locations." Hardly anything has been said from them on the issue. And don't start on the whole "They don't owe you an explanation or webcams." 

I couldn't agree more @sixohdieselrage, the issues isn't the webcams have gone down. Look **** happens. I once had a website crash minutes into showing the client the final product. Spent weeks checking and double checking but yet the server went offline outside my control. What I didn't do was give ever changing reasons to the client and stop all communication.  I swallowed my pride, apologized and kept the client in the loop on getting it fixed.  They were beyond pleased in the end and thanked me for the updates.

 

@silver2005 How do you know the park is documenting this? You don't have anymore knowledge of this then anyone does about how the tower electric is run.  You have made a simple assumption just like others have with how the tower is powered.  What makes you correct and everyone else wrong? Like you have said unless someone has first hand knowledge from the park, which it is assumed must people on here don't, and those who do wont say anyways, no one knows for sure.   I get you are tired of people talking about the webcams, and that is okay. The solution is to stop reading this thread. It has been split off the construction thread, you don't have to see it anymore, you are choosing too.

 

IMHO this all boils down to how we view ourselves and the parks relationship. Does the park owe us something or do we owe the park something? My view is the park owes us as we are the clients. They want our money so that puts us in the drivers seat. As enthusiast we can vote that we are unhappy and take our money elsewhere, the park doesn't have that option, so we are the ones that get to decide if we are happy with the relationship or not.  We are the client that they need to make happy to keep making $$$. Please don't think I am advocating for us to boycott the park over this, I have my pass in hand for next year, but they have the duty to us not the other way around. Let's be honest, I can hop in the plane and day trip any park this side of the Mississippi, but my heart lives in KI. I just wish KI would have the same view.  This webcam fiasco shows the park doesn't value us and that is why we are all frustrated.  We are tired of the secrecy, we are tired of the smoke and mirrors, just tell us the truth. KI would reap the rewards of having PR come out and say, sorry guys, we mucked up. Our timing on this was horrid and we apologize. I would be thrilled and the hard feelings would be gone. But that has yet to happen as they can't swallow their pride and admit they might be wrong.  If they really wanted to rebuild the relationship they have with enthusiast they would offer a tour of the site in the spring, but that would be way above and beyond, but maybe that is what the park needs to do anyways.

[Enchanted Voyage Lover]

As far as I'm concerned nothing has been said. There is no official word from KI whatsoever. No blog, Twitter, Instagram or Facebook post about the camera issue, even though people are commenting about it on the park's social media platforms and asking what's the deal. It has been brought up on other forums from around the country and many on these are blown away as well. Some think it's nothing, others are upset. Just because you don't feel like we're electricians and don't know, or whatever else excuse gets thrown out there unofficially, doesn't mean we can't be upset. There's my $0.02. 

[silver2005]

^Then you're being upset at the park's lack of tranparency over guessing and things that aren't in your control.  

EDIT: @PilotDude I also never said I knew anything, you're putting words in my mouth or being very bad at assuming things about my words. 

You guys aren't even trying to see things from what I've laid out.  

[BoddaH1994]

42 minutes ago, silver2005 said:

There's one big point about the park transparency that keeps bring brought up that I'd like to dissect as well, the whole thing about how the Eiffel Tower is using power to use the elevators and lights and the webcams are off.  Most of these people are judging that based off of things they themselves admit to not knowing about, which is how they are using the electricity and stuff going on about electrical engineering.  You're basing your whole lack of transparency premise off of things you're guessing on.  There's no foundation to that argument coming from people who don't know about electrical engineering and acting like you know the park isn't telling the truth.  Why should I believe any of these claims from people who admit to not being entirely knowledgeable about the situation?  That's jumping to conclusions and going after the park with an accusation that isn't a light accusation.   Saying the park is lying or not being transparent isn't something to brush aside.  The act of the accusation and the framing of the argument is what I've been having a problem with.   There are other angles to seeing why the webcams are down to be acknowledged and people are posting like they've nailed it and can't accept other reasons no matter how plausible or true.   Those members are hammering and relying on those notions without being in a position to be knowledgeable to make those claims in the first place.  Unless you can make yourself credible by explaining why you know things and lay it out why (ex. actually being an electrical engineer and fully knowing how the park's and ET's power grid works), the claims of lack of transparency and/or lying hold no water.  

When I was entering the park they didn't scan my pass at the parking tolls.  They registers were acting wonky for the meal plans.  Some show elements cut in and out.  Clearly all network issues and I'd bet the web cams are on that same plain.  

I'm guilty of this too, but you should never assume malice when things are often chalked up to incompetence.

Not saying the IT dept is incompetent, but you know what I mean.  

[sixohdieselrage]

 @silver2005 If the park didnt want us forming opinions, they should come out and give us the truth. There are things in their story that dont make a lick of sense. Such as "cutting power" or a "system upgrade". Had they said infrastructure updates, that would make more sense, since that is usually hardwire issues. 

[Enchanted Voyage Lover]

Wrong. I've been going to Kings Island for 47 years and live two and a half hours away. I've have made it a point to come up more this summer and fall and watch something truly awesome be created at the park that I never had the opportunity to do before thanks to technology. I made a point to come to the announcement. Each time I've come I've lugged my camera in to get shots of the construction. I went by CSF to get pics there. I'm coming tomorrow to give my respects to Vortex and take pics. When the most anticipated part of the project begins, it goes dark. When you are told officially by the park to watch and enjoy the construction on the webcams, that's what I have been doing. When they are taken away with no explanation, that's when I get upset. Unlike some, I will continue to stay here and watch the debates and chime in when feeling led to do so. I'm not one to leave a group just because I don't agree with everyone on it.

[silver2005]

Then what's the difference between the park not telling people why individual rides get shut down and the park not saying why the webcams are shut down?

[Enchanted Voyage Lover]

There's no difference....is this not the webcam rant?

[sixohdieselrage]

2 minutes ago, silver2005 said:

^Then what's the difference between the park not telling people why individual rides get shut down and the park not saying why the webcams are shut down?

So, by that logic, even the park coming out and saying "For the safety of our crew, we are turning the webcams off for a week" would be fine by us. But nothing yet. 

[BoddaH1994]

8 minutes ago, Enchanted Voyage Lover said:

Wrong. I've been going to Kings Island for 47 years and live two and a half hours away. I've have made it a point to come up more this summer and fall and watch something truly awesome be created at the park that I never had the opportunity to do before thanks to technology. I made a point to come to the announcement. Each time I've come I've lugged my camera in to get shots of the construction. I went by CSF to get pics there. I'm coming tomorrow to give my respects to Vortex and take pics. When the most anticipated part of the project begins, it goes dark. When you are told officially by the park to watch and enjoy the construction on the webcams, that's what I have been doing. When they are taken away with no explanation, that's when I get upset. Unlike some, I will continue to stay here and watch the debates and chime in when feeling led to do so. I'm not one to leave a group just because I don't agree with everyone on it.

See my above post.  I truly do believe that that this is a network-upgrade-gone-bad.  I agree that this is taking way too long, but I think it's something that's far from intentional. 

[spooky21]

52 minutes ago, sixohdieselrage said:

@silver2005

Read through stuff bro. Again, some people aren't upset at "this is the whole reason", or so much blaming one thing or another. It's more of "we dont like being fed potential lies", or "someone for some reason screwed up". Screwed up by:

1. Horrible timing of these "software updates", if there were any. Which I highly doubt, as software updates NEVER take this long in this day in age. 
2. Not knowing how long this would theoretically take. Simple way, plan ahead of time, that way if you run into any issues, you have more time to fix said issues. 
3. Users not being able to see what some consider the coolest part of construction of a ride, the topping off. 

Again, why cant the park just come out and at least say "We apologize for the webcams being down. We are quickly working on having them operational again. In the meantime,  feel free to watch the media, stop by the park on the weekend, or view progress from authorized locations." Hardly anything has been said from them on the issue. And don't start on the whole "They don't owe you an explanation or webcams." 

You said it perfectly with "potential lies"

[silver2005]

@sixohdieselrage But they aren't telling you the exact reason a ride goes down and, again, aren't obligated to.  If you know that's the way its going to be with the webcams and are just going to sit as patiently or impatiently for them to get back up like anyone else, why keep pressing on it?  To me, the park went out of their way to say something at all, which, those can still be valid as the problem could be bigger than you're all thinking.  Incompetence shows up at any park so that doesn't make KI any more special in this circumstance.  Being a private property means they are allowed not to tell you everything.  

I also think the vast majority of you are blowing this webcam business way, way, way out of proportion in relation to how it affects the park's bottom line.   Most people viewing the cams are already KI fans and a slight malfunction won't be enough for them not to come back and continue purchasing tickets/passes/merch, etc.  Unless you can prove that correlation in a way that is meaningful to the park's well being, its a non-issue with me. 

[sixohdieselrage]

3 minutes ago, spooky21 said:

You said it perfectly with "potential lies"

You missed my last post. Do you know how to read? 

Super funny. You guys come to a rant thread to complain about the rant in the said rant thread... LoL

[Rallyomalley]

25 minutes ago, BoddaH1994 said:

When I was entering the park they didn't scan my pass at the parking tolls.  They registers were acting wonky for the meal plans.  Some show elements cut in and out.  Clearly all network issues and I'd bet the web cams are on that same plain.  

I'm guilty of this too, but you should never assume malice when things are often chalked up to incompetence.

Not saying the IT dept is incompetent, but you know what I mean.  

I ran into an issue last time they "upgraded their system" which was around the time the 2020 Gold Passes went on sale.  
 

I'd had 2 paper cup drink plans on my pass the entire season.  When they did the upgrade they "turned off" my second drink plan.  It was laughable.  No one knew what was going on.  They made claims that I never should have been able to have two drink plans on my pass.  
 

The gold tag had to call and it took their IT team in Sandusky the better part of 3 full days to figure out what they broke.  Then they said it was "working as intended".  
 

Based on my experiences I'd argue it IS incompetence.

[BoddaH1994]

1 minute ago, silver2005 said:

@sixohdieselrage But they aren't telling you the exact reason a ride goes down and, again, aren't obligated to.  If you know that's the way its going to be with the webcams and are just going to sit as patiently or impatiently for them to get back up like anyone else, why keep pressing on it?  To me, the park went out of their way to say something at all, which, those can still be valid as the problem could be bigger than you're all thinking.  Incompetence shows up at any park so that doesn't make KI any more special in this circumstance.  Being a private property means they are allowed not to tell you everything.  

I also think the vast majority of you are blowing this webcam business way, way, way out of proportion in relation to how it affects the park's bottom line.   Most people viewing the cams are already KI fans and a slight malfunction won't be enough for them not to come back and continue purchasing tickets/passes/merch, etc.  Unless you can prove that correlation in a way that is meaningful to the park's well being, its a non-issue with me. 

I don't think Six is concerned with, "We attempted to install the Sympatic Protocal but the IP conflict caused a 353 error" as much as he's concerned with us being told that it was for Winterfest but the truth is they didn't want people watching the construction.   Again, after seeing what I saw last night I do not believe that it is the case.  

[spooky21]

Just now, sixohdieselrage said:

You missed my last post. Do you know how to read? 

Nope just seeing how y'all are freaking out over a webcam when you don't know the full story. "Potential lies" you said it your self.

[BoddaH1994]

Just now, Rallyomalley said:

I ran into an issue last time they "updated their software" which was around the time the 2020 Gold Passes went on sale.  
 

I'd had 2 paper cup drink plans on my pass the entire season.  When they did the update they "turned off" my second drink plan.  It was laughable.  No one knew what was going on.  They made claims that I never should have been able to have two drink plans on my pass.  
 

The gold tag had to call and it took their IT team in Sandusky the better part of 3 full days to figure out what they broke.  Then they said it was "working as intended".  
 

Based on my experiences I'd argue it IS incompetence.

(Sorry to double post)

This issue you described far predates the network upgrade.  I know 3 people with two drink plans for no reason.  Or the season starts and the meal plan doesn't work... etc.  Some of it has to do with Micros being tied into Gate Central.  It's all very complicated.  All I know is that it's fixable, although sometimes it's the click of a button and other times it involves getting an all new pass and even having your picture taken again.

[PilotDude]

2 minutes ago, silver2005 said:

@sixohdieselrage But they aren't telling you the exact reason a ride goes down and, again, aren't obligated to.  If you know that's the way its going to be with the webcams and are just going to sit as patiently or impatiently for them to get back up like anyone else, why keep pressing on it?  To me, the park went out of their way to say something at all, which, those can still be valid as the problem could be bigger than you're all thinking.  Incompetence shows up at any park so that doesn't make KI any more special in this circumstance.  Being a private property means they are allowed not to tell you everything.  

I also think the vast majority of you are blowing this webcam business way, way, way out of proportion in relation to how it affects the park's bottom line.   Most people viewing the cams are already KI fans and a slight malfunction won't be enough for them not to come back and continue purchasing tickets/passes/merch, etc.  Unless you can prove that correlation in a way that is meaningful to the park's well being, its a non-issue with me. 

Can you show me a single official source mentioning the webcams going down? I am not talking a so and so talked to so and so, I am talking a press release, social media, email, anything that the park itself has put out.   People are frustrated that we got second hand info about well it is this, no wait it is this (when the obvious evidence doesn't support the whole power story as Mystic Timbers webcam isn't on the tower), the park is acting like webcams don't exist. Silence. If they would just come out and say "Sorry, we didn't mean for the webcams to go down. But here is a couple new pictures of the construction" this wouldn't of even been an issue.

[WindingSon]

They don't owe you an explanation.

[sixohdieselrage]

3 minutes ago, spooky21 said:

Nope just seeing how y'all are freaking out over a webcam when you don't know the full story. "Potential lies" you said it your self.

We arnt freaking out. We are simply questioning the whole narrative the park is telling us.

[PilotDude]

6 minutes ago, BoddaH1994 said:

(Sorry to double post)

This issue you described far predates the network upgrade.  I know 3 people with two drink plans for no reason.  Or the season starts and the meal plan doesn't work... etc.  Some of it has to do with Micros being tied into Gate Central.  It's all very complicated.  All I know is that it's fixable, although sometimes it's the click of a button and other times it involves getting an all new pass and even having your picture taken again.

I paid for two drink plans to be shared between my wife, kids and I. By the end of the year we had 9 drink plans active on our passes. No one knew why, they just keep showing up. I suspect is was each time they asked paper or souvenir, that they never finished the transaction and somehow it keep adding new plans. 

[Rallyomalley]

2 minutes ago, BoddaH1994 said:

(Sorry to double post)

This issue you described far predates the network upgrade.  I know 3 people with two drink plans for no reason.  Or the season starts and the meal plan doesn't work... etc.  Some of it has to do with Micros being tied into Gate Central.  It's all very complicated.  All I know is that it's fixable, although sometimes it's the click of a button and other times it involves getting an all new pass and even having your picture taken again.

Well mine wasn't for "no reason".  I PAID for two drink plans on my pass for a reason.  It worked the entire season until they pushed out the upgrade for 2020 gold passes.  

 

Although the park claimed that the second drink plan was never used and then blamed it on the hourly employees for screwing something up.  
 

They couldn't even figure out how to change the interlock (for lack of a better term I mean the length of time between drinks which is currently set at 15 minutes).
 

So I'll say it again.  Reeks of incompetence.

[spooky21]

Just now, sixohdieselrage said:

We arnt freaking out. We are simply questioning the whole narrative the park is telling us.

9 pages saying the same thing over and over isn't freaking out... Point blank I don't believe any of you work at the park or are spokespersons for the park. Therefore your opinions on what is happening are mute. The park will do as they please. If you have a problem take it up with them. Stop dragging this on and on. 9 pages now into this, it's silly. Shouldn't even be a topic. They are webcams, they aren't owed to you.

[BoddaH1994]

1 minute ago, Rallyomalley said:

Well mine wasn't for "no reason".  I PAID for two drink plans on my pass for a reason.  It worked the entire season until they pushed out the upgrade for 2020 gold passes.  

 

Although the park claimed that the second drink plan was never used and then blamed it on the hourly employees for screwing something up.  
 

They couldn't even figure out how to change the interlock (for lack of a better term I mean the length of time between drinks which is currently set at 15 minutes).
 

So I'll say it again.  Reeks of incompetence.

Oh, that's weird.  I know a ton of people that have both the cup plan and the refillable plan for no reason.  Like, the only paid for one.  That's an odd glitch.  Seems like your issue is different from that.  I'm a little surprised it allows that.

[silver2005]

I stand corrected on the whole park not actually saying what it is issue.  I'm going by the call @IndyGuy4KI made to the park, but to me, that was good enough and is still the park going out of their way.  The other reason that's good enough for me is because I imagine Brad introduced himself as an admin here thus they knew in that context it would be spread as a kind of official statement.   They didn't have to give him an explanation and it obviously isn't important enough to them given what they are working on currently, nor should it be IMO.  They're still documenting Orion going up without the webcams which is good enough for me.   I mean, if it is incompetence, then that's also a non-issue with me.  Every park encounters that in some form.

However, its still the case that the park doesn't owe an explanation and we're likely not going to get an explanation for something so insignificant.  This whole thing is stopped cold by that fact.