Coronavirus Impacting Theme Parks

[gad198]

6 hours ago, disco2000 said:

Personally though I think if someone doesn't want to hear about coronavirus, then skip this thread.  For the most part I feel the conversations have been informative and we have seen some members change their opinion on the topic, likely in part to what has been discussed here. 

Are there some discussions that go off the rails too bad with clearly someone either trolling or being unwilling to listen to other viewpoints, sure, but certainly that has been the exception and not the rule on this forum.

Some people have been very good defending their position or opinion with sources and I believe have been informative posts.  I think some of what is being discussed here is better than the media or political spin we are getting from news outlets.

Maybe change the thread title to "Coronavirus related discussion" and let it carry on?

Absolutely agree on all counts.  Posts that have been on either extreme have been challenged and refuted with reasonable and rational replies.  I think one of the reasons why the post quantity in this particular thread has come down is because most now know the rules of engagement; i.e., that if you post something you should be prepared to defend that position with clear reasoning.  There's a check-and-balance system here that seems to be working well.  That is the very definition of healthy discussion!

[Joshua]

20 hours ago, disco2000 said:

Personally though I think if someone doesn't want to hear about coronavirus, then skip this thread.  For the most part I feel the conversations have been informative and we have seen some members change their opinion on the topic, likely in part to what has been discussed here. 

Are there some discussions that go off the rails too bad with clearly someone either trolling or being unwilling to listen to other viewpoints, sure, but certainly that has been the exception and not the rule on this forum.

Some people have been very good defending their position or opinion with sources and I believe have been informative posts.  I think some of what is being discussed here is better than the media or political spin we are getting from news outlets.

Maybe change the thread title to "Coronavirus related discussion" and let it carry on?

Agreed. I'd also argue that for the most part, the thread has been on topic as the status of the pandemic does affect theme parks and other such businesses. 

 

[gforce1994]

There’s already alleged cases related to HW: https://www.tristatehomepage.com/news/local-news/holiday-world-addresses-alleged-positive-covid-19-cases/?utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=facebook.com

 

[coaster sally]

44 minutes ago, gforce1994 said:

There’s already alleged cases related to HW: https://www.tristatehomepage.com/news/local-news/holiday-world-addresses-alleged-positive-covid-19-cases/?utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=facebook.com

 

Holiday world says that they are following CDC guidelines.  What a joke.  They are putting profits above doing the right thing like indiana beach.

I emailed Holiday World and told them I would not attend holliwood nights if they don't make masks mandatory like the rest of the amusement parks(sans Indiana beach)

[raggedman07]

And their reply was....?

[coaster sally]

2 minutes ago, raggedman07 said:

And their reply was....?

I did it last night.  Currently after the state mandate they say they are looking into how if affects their current best practices.

[malem]

Holiday World updated their COVID-19 policy on the website to reflect Indiana's new mandate:

Quote

Beginning July 27, 2020, in accordance with Governor Holcomb’s Executive Order 20-37, Guests will be required to wear face coverings as they enter the gates, and in any indoor spaces in the park including roller coaster stations, gift shops, indoor restaurants, Pepsi Oases, and restroom buildings.  Guests will not be required to wear face coverings on any water rides, while eating or drinking, or in the midways, but are expected to maintain 6-foot social distancing from other travel parties at all times. In accordance with guidance from Indiana, children 7 and under will not need to wear coverings in the park (though they are strongly recommended for children ages 2-7) and exceptions will be made for those with medical conditions.

 

[coaster sally]

1 minute ago, malem said:

Holiday World updated their COVID-19 policy on the website to reflect Indiana's new mandate:

 

Hopefully this isn't window dressing....Sounds like they included as much language into it to sugar coat it.

[gforce1994]

HHN30 has been cancelled. 

[SonofBaconator]

I have a bold prediction that some have disagreed with me on but I'm going to share it anyway. With covid-19 affecting the chain, as well as the whole amusement park industry, I wouldn't be surprised if Cedar Fair started to look into cloned rides for some of their parks.

It's not Cedar Fair style to buy cloned rides- with exception to WindSeeker in the early 2010s- but you can't deny that they're huge money savers. I always thought that if Cedar Fair was yearning to get people back into some of their parks, they could go with compact clones. We're already seeing that somewhat with Kings Dominion getting a 4d freespin from S&S and while its said that it'll have an original layout, most 4d freespins are similar to one another. 

The cloning of rides would it be a permanent solution mind you, I'd imagine it could only be something that could hold some parks over while the company's trying to get back some of that lost revenue. For example what if they gave Canada's Wonderland a Premier Skyrocket II model and put it somewhere that doesn't take up a lot of space? Sure it wouldn't be anything new or necessarily groundbreaking but it would give Canada's Wonderland a new launch coaster and something new for guests to enjoy while the chain is trying to recoup some money. They could even go a step further in clone old famous coasters that are defunct for some of their smaller parks. I know fans of wanted some type of invert to be installed at Valleyfair for a while so I don't think wouldn't be a bad idea to give them a clone if an invert. One that comes to mind that I would really like to see cloned is the Chinese Fireball part of the defunt Dragon challenge from Universal. This could give ValleyFair new coaster, Cedar Fair wouldn't have to pay to design a brand new coaster, and I believe fans of ValleyFair would be happy. 

Like I said maybe I'm 100% wrong on this, but I wouldn't blame Cedar Fair if they chose to go with clones at least during these unprecedented times.

[coaster sally]

^That would still cost well over 20 million to build a b&m invert, clone or not for valleyfair.

 

[bengalsguy23]

There going to have to save money some how. They probably also don’t want to cut too many projects as they’ll need the new rides to help rebound. 
 

If I was Cedar Fair I would cancel the big b&ms for the next couple years. Rides like s&s freespins and smaller wooden coasters for smaller parks like Dorney park and Valleyfair. (These types of projects were already planned before the pandemic). I think the big sacrifice is going to be on the big parks. If you can the 30 million in half each year off the cost of a new b&m and go with an rmc conversation or ground up. These rides are usually around 10 million. For parks that already have one like cp I’d build a new gg or gci. 
 

Cedar Fair loves building rides with b&m and I completely get that business model it’s successful for them I just think they are going to have cut costs somehow while still opening new rides. Clones are certainly possible.

[SonofBaconator]

Like I said, it would be a temporary fix. The GCI and RMC theory would make a lot of sense too. I don't know how expensive Skyrockets are. Also raptors are pretty cheap. 

@bengalsguy23 the bigger parks are confusing. Does CF just go for conversions and low cost coasters? Carowinds could get a GCI, convert their Hurler or even their Vortex. Canada's Wonderland could also get a GCI or go with something like a Sky Rocket II. KI I think would get flats and focus on the water park I think, maybe a GG for Planet Snoopy but that's a stretch. Cedar Point could maybe get a GCI, and work on their boardwalk. 

[bengalsguy23]

1 hour ago, SonofBaconator said:

Like I said, it would be a temporary fix. The GCI and RMC theory would make a lot of sense too. I don't know how expensive Skyrockets are. Also raptors are pretty cheap. 

@bengalsguy23 the bigger parks are confusing. Does CF just go for conversions and low cost coasters? Carowinds could get a GCI, convert their Hurler or even their Vortex. Canada's Wonderland could also get a GCI or go with something like a Sky Rocket II. KI I think would get flats and focus on the water park I think, maybe a GG for Planet Snoopy but that's a stretch. Cedar Point could maybe get a GCI, and work on their boardwalk. 

I think how long cost cutting measures will occur might be longer than we think. This year Cedar Fair lost a lot of money and it doesn’t seem like the parks that are open right now are generating much revenue. It’s also too early to tell how next years going to be as well. 
 

like we both mentioned small parks could probably receive smaller cloned rides like sky rockets and free spins. 
 

the big parks (cp, Ki, cw, car) need something bigger. I don’t think a sky rocket 2 is going to cut it at wonderland. It’s definitely a marketable coaster but that park gets so busy sometimes. I’ve seen it busier than Cedar Point. A sky rocket 2 would be a nightmare. If I was Cedar Point I over the next couple years I would convert a woodan coaster To and rmc at Carowinds and wonderland and then I would add a large gci to Cedar Point. All investments that don’t cost that much but are large enough to draw attendance. I don’t think Ki will need anything big for awhile as Orion’s basically turning into a 2021 addition 

[Gabe]

This to me just seems horribly patchwork.  They should just require them everywhere, except in relax zones or water rides. how can they expect their associates to enforce a mandate where you don't have to wear one in line, but do once you enter the station and on the ride?  I'd expect to see this changed before too long.

[jimlaheyscar]

49 minutes ago, Gabe said:

This to me just seems horribly patchwork.  They should just require them everywhere, except in relax zones or water rides. how can they expect their associates to enforce a mandate where you don't have to wear one in line, but do once you enter the station and on the ride?  I'd expect to see this changed before too long.

There is a person at the entrance to the rides that assigns seats.  I think they can work in a mask reminder.

[coaster sally]

https://news.yahoo.com/dont-comply-indiana-republican-lawmaker-165928594.html

There was also an anti mask rally in Indy.

[brenthodge]

Universal, Disney land and world Halloween events cancelled as of today.i wouldn’t  look for haunt this year. 

[Karen5]

13 minutes ago, brenthodge said:

Universal, Disney land and world Halloween events cancelled as of today.i wouldn’t  look for haunt this year. 

What a shame...I certainly hope this won't be the case with KI

[bjcolglazier]

2 hours ago, coaster sally said:

https://news.yahoo.com/dont-comply-indiana-republican-lawmaker-165928594.html

There was also an anti mask rally in Indy.

There was an anti-mask rally at the Ohio State Capitol last weekend. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/07/19/coronavirus-ohio-anti-mask-crowd-rallies-statehouse-saturday/5468011002/

What is your point? 

[bjcolglazier]

12 hours ago, gforce1994 said:

There’s already alleged cases related to HW: https://www.tristatehomepage.com/news/local-news/holiday-world-addresses-alleged-positive-covid-19-cases/?utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=facebook.com

 

And this is how this whole thread devolves. They went to Holiday World. Test results are delayed 7-10 days as we know. So blame Holiday World. Of course, we have NO IDEA where else this family was in the past 2 weeks. But...blame HW. C'mon people.

[disco2000]

Cedar Point has removed days from their operating calendar:

https://www.mlive.com/news/2020/07/cedar-point-to-cut-hours-likely-due-to-small-crowds.html#:~:text=The park announced upcoming reduced,%2C Monday%2C Sept. 7.

[coaster sally]

8 hours ago, bjcolglazier said:

And this is how this whole thread devolves. They went to Holiday World. Test results are delayed 7-10 days as we know. So blame Holiday World. Of course, we have NO IDEA where else this family was in the past 2 weeks. But...blame HW. C'mon people.

Its a bad look when the news footage shows no masks and failure to social distance.

[bjcolglazier]

6 minutes ago, coaster sally said:

Its a bad look when the news footage shows no masks and failure to social distance.

I suppose, but this is why we have local and state health departments. It's why we see bars being forced to close in hot-spots nationwide, but not amusement parks (yet). Thus far, the health department's are not tracing significant cases to the parks. It might happen at some point, but hasn't yet.

[amapan]

10 hours ago, brenthodge said:

Universal, Disney land and world Halloween events cancelled as of today.i wouldn’t  look for haunt this year. 

I called it in March. This has me like:

 

 

@SonofBaconator All the regional chains are in an untenable situation at the moment. Cedar Fair, at least, has astronomical debt and can’t even afford electricity at the moment. I would assume the ride budget is going to be strictly allocated to maintenance and possibly fulfilling current contracts on projects in development. Six Flags called off about a dozen parks that were in the works in China. They totally cancelled every development plan and a huge global expansion.  I doubt we will see many new rides at any of the regional chains for years. 

[robintodd]

2 hours ago, amapan said:

I called it in March. This has me like:

 

 

@SonofBaconator All the regional chains are in an untenable situation at the moment. Cedar Fair, at least, has astronomical debt and can’t even afford electricity at the moment. I would assume the ride budget is going to be strictly allocated to maintenance and possibly fulfilling current contracts on projects in development. Six Flags called off about a dozen parks that were in the works in China. They totally cancelled every development plan and a huge global expansion.  I doubt we will see many new rides at any of the regional chains for years. 

Can't afford electricity?  What did they do with the Billion dollar note they got this year to hold them over?  Cedar Fair is fine especially now that income will start resuming from the ez-pay arrangements.  We'll find out more August 5 during the shareholder's call.

https://ir.cedarfair.com/news/news-details/2020/Cedar-Fair-Completes-Issuance-of-10-Billion-Senior-Secured-Notes/default.aspx

[brenthodge]

12 minutes ago, robintodd said:

Can't afford electricity?  What did they do with the Billion dollar note they got this year to hold them over?  Cedar Fair is fine especially now that income will start resuming from the ez-pay arrangements.  We'll find out more August 5 during the shareholder's call.

https://ir.cedarfair.com/news/news-details/2020/Cedar-Fair-Completes-Issuance-of-10-Billion-Senior-Secured-Notes/default.aspx

But there won’t be any “renewal” incentive this year since all passes are good for next. There’s little to move the needle there once those payments for 2020 are complete. There really little incentive to buy a New pass for next year at this point when no one knows what 2021 will look like. I wouldn’t if I didn’t already have this years. I don’t know what they can do to stimulate cash flow once the current passes are “paid off” maybe offer 2 for 1 incentives for dining plan, drink plan? Continue with “bring a friend” deals? Not sure. Honestly if they’d knock 2-3 bucks off “meal deals” Or offer free drink (loss leader) when you buy a 14.00 meal we would eat there more. I think they need to get creative with ways to stimulate spending soon. They’re not even going to have as many days to get the $$$$ this year. Might as well get as much as you can while you have them in park. 

[SonofBaconator]

KI pass holders have two seasons in one pass so 2021 will obviously see more guests, assuming this virus gets handled before then. I don't see KI getting a cloned or low budget coaster to hold over guests since I'd imagine they're trying to save up for Vortex's replacement.

[Kenban]

3 hours ago, amapan said:

All the regional chains are in an untenable situation at the moment. Cedar Fair, at least, has astronomical debt and can’t even afford electricity at the moment. I would assume the ride budget is going to be strictly allocated to maintenance and possibly fulfilling current contracts on projects in development. Six Flags called off about a dozen parks that were in the works in China. They totally cancelled every development plan and a huge global expansion.  I doubt we will see many new rides at any of the regional chains for years. 

Both Cedar Fair and Six Flags took out enough debt several months ago that they did not need to operate any of their parks this year and they would still have enough left over to open next year.  Both have a lot more debt now, but neither are in as bad of shape as your trying to make them out to be.

Six Flags was a licensing partner for those parks in China, it was not their choice it was due to the failure of the company in China who was going to own, operate, build, and most importantly pay for the parks.  There never was a huge global expansion, they were trying to get other companies to pay them for branding rights.

[IndyGuy4KI]

On 7/24/2020 at 11:06 AM, gforce1994 said:

HHN30 has been cancelled. 

Can someone spell out the acronym? I am drawing a blank right now.