Kings Island's next big coaster a ground-up R.M.C?

[Dj325]

Do you remember this poster?

When this poster appeared at Kings Island, fans were starting thinking that Kings Island was going to build an R.M.C Son of Beast for the 2019 season. That however, didn't happen. But, maybe that wasn't for 2019. Maybe it's for sometime way into the future. In 2019, Kings Island announced that they would be removing The Vortex. Now fans are wondering when and what will replace it. I think it could be a ground-up r.m.c. I don't have a picture of what it could look like, but I have an idea for a ground-up r.m.c called GHOST MOUNTAIN! I even made up my own story for it. "Rivertown had grown from a tiny old town struggling to survive, to the busiest town in the West. People from all over came to Rivertown to see and do anything that the town had to offer. They enjoyed getting plashed and soaked on the town's White Water Canyon Expeditions. They heard many legends and tales, from the sighting of a giant creature near Beast Canyon, to a mysterious haunted lumber mill.  The town was so popular, that it was decided that they would expand Rivertown. But, what they would add to the town, would end up being a big mistake. In 2025, Rivertown officially opened the Ghost Mountain Expeditions. Everything was going great, but there was something the mayor of Rivertown knew about the mountain that he didn't tell anyone. Ghost Mountain was in fact haunted. After the second train was loaded and left, they began loading train no.3. Once the train no.3 was finished loading, it departed from the station. But, when train no.3 came back, it was empty. Pretending like nothing happened, they began loading train no.3. But, one of the citizens was the brother of one of the passengers that was on train no.3 before him. When he got into his seat, once the train departed from the station, suddenly he heard a voice. It was his brother. He looks to his right, and sure enough, his brother is sitting right next to him. He goes to touch his brother's face, but his hand goes right through, almost as if his brother was a ghost. When he got back to the station, he went to one of the employees in panic. When runs towards the employee, he runs right through the employee as if he was a ghost himself. Legend has it that anyone goes inside the caves of this Mountain, come out as ghosts and spirits, walking along with the living as if they were alive. But that's the thing, they're not. They're actually dead!" That's all I have right now for a story for this ride idea. You would board a ride vehicle themed to a black western train. There will be two lift hills. The first hill would have a 90° drop. The drop of the second lift hill would be a combination of Twisted Timbers' first drop and Lighting Rod's first drop or something similar to that. The ride would take you through twists and turns, a few moments where the train would pass by another train, lots of dark tunnels and parts where the riders would be in complete pichblack darkness, and tons of elements and inversions similar to Steel Vengeance at Cedar Point and Twisted Timbers at Kings Dominion. To build this the way I imagine the ride to look like would require removing the Backlot Stunt Coaster. If there's anyone who is good at drawing rollercoaster concept art, or has NoLimits2 or Planet Coaster, could maybe come up with some design ideas for this ride using the details and information given. I do have NoLimits2, but I'm still learning how to use it. So until I'm able to successfully create something on NoLimits2, it'll be up to you guys to come up with a design for this ride.

[beastfan11]

Not this again. 

[SonofBaconator]

 

[Shawn Meyer]

On 7/3/2020 at 8:36 PM, Dj325 said:

Do you remember this poster?

When this poster appeared at Kings Island, fans were starting thinking that Kings Island was going to build an R.M.C Son of Beast for the 2019 season. That however, didn't happen. But, maybe that wasn't for 2019. Maybe it's for sometime way into the future. In 2019, Kings Island announced that they would be removing The Vortex. Now fans are wondering when and what will replace it. I think it could be a ground-up r.m.c. I don't have a picture of what it could look like, but I have an idea for a ground-up r.m.c called GHOST MOUNTAIN!

I know the last two posters yesterday probably rolled their eyes at this, but I like this idea! I don't know If they would have to go out and remove Backlot Stunt Coaster, but I imagine they could still get creative. They're already removing footers in The Vortex site so I imagine they'll level the land in the off-season and maybe start building next season. This way we could start guessing like we did last year for Orion. I believe we'll see something new there in 2022-2023.

[Cedar Fair Fanboy]

Outpost 5's Exterminator is the named that pop up in my head

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

Building it on the Rivertown side would require the station to probably sit on the hill going down or down into the valley. I think they could gut out the arcade and the Coke freestyle stand that never works and have the entrance there. 

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

On 7/5/2020 at 1:47 PM, Shawn Meyer said:

I know the last two posters yesterday probably rolled their eyes at this, but I like this idea! I don't know If they would have to go out and remove Backlot Stunt Coaster, but I imagine they could still get creative. They're already removing footers in The Vortex site so I imagine they'll level the land in the off-season and maybe start building next season. This way we could start guessing like we did last year for Orion. I believe we'll see something new there in 2022-2023.

I hate to burst your bubble, but I think they're just removing the footers to remove them. I doubt they have anything planned for that site yet since the removal was so sudden. Plus they just spent $30M on Orion and they will need to get a return on that investment before they invest in something big again. I think planning could start next year though. 

Also sorry for double post

[FUN&ONLY!]

Rebuild the son next to his father like it always should have been.

[ThrillKingsFitzy]

I could definitely see this. It would be about the same price as mystic since Zadra was about 15 million. We need a hybrid in our lineup. We could easily make a record breaker. 
 

[Dj325]

On 7/7/2020 at 8:51 AM, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

Building it on the Rivertown side would require the station to probably sit on the hill going down or down into the valley. I think they could gut out the arcade and the Coke freestyle stand that never works and have the entrance there. 

I was actually thinking about that being the entrance. I just didn't say it because I wanted you guys to have more room for creativity.

 

21 hours ago, FUN&ONLY! said:

Rebuild the son next to his father like it always should have been.

Even though I wasn't talking about an RMC Son of Beast, I absolutely love your comment ! That's definitely how it always should've been.

 

On 7/5/2020 at 9:24 PM, Cedar Fair Fanboy said:

Outpost 5's Exterminator is the named that pop up in my head

The Exterminator. I absolutely love the intimidation that I'm getting just by looking at that name right now!

[loganhubbard]

23 hours ago, ThrillKingsFitzy said:

I could definitely see this. It’s would be about the same price as mystic since Zadra was about 15 million. We need a hybrid in our lineup. We could easily make a record breaker. 
 

A coaster like this would catapult KI's lineup to be at least as good as Cedar Point's imo

[coaster sally]

Hopefully they will move on from b&m, get something fresh.  CP has a nice mix of b&m, Intamin, RMC, etc.  KI has b&m and lower tier stuff like older vekoma(not the newer), arrow, premier, gci, etc.

[SonofBaconator]

25 minutes ago, coaster sally said:

Hopefully they will move on from b&m, get something fresh.  CP has a nice mix of b&m, Intamin, RMC, etc.  KI has b&m and lower tier stuff like older vekoma(not the newer), arrow, premier, gci, etc.

CF has been on a reliability streak this past decade. We'll never lose B&M

[CoastersRZ]

And what is wrong with Flight of Fear?  Or the GCI that we have?  I have nothing but good things to say about the B&M coasters that KI has installed.  Remember, that before Cedar Fair took over KI, KI was one of the biggest parks in the country without a B&M coaster.

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

On 7/7/2020 at 7:49 PM, Dj325 said:

I was actually thinking about that being the entrance. I just didn't say it because I wanted you guys to have more room for creativity.

I went over and checked out the arcade area while visiting the park today and I think having the games gutted out there could make for a nice ride entrance. I kinda like what they did with Orion where you can get a green screen photo before you enter. I think doing something like that with a wild west theme would be nice. 

[BeastForever]

To be perfectly honest, I don't entirely disagree with coaster sally that it'd be interesting to see a non-B&M come to KI as our next coaster.

It would be interesting, as it was in 2017 when a new GCI came about after two consecutive B&Ms. But apparently Mystic Timbers is "lower-tier", so...

[coaster sally]

2 hours ago, BeastForever said:

To be perfectly honest, I don't entirely disagree with coaster sally that it'd be interesting to see a non-B&M come to KI as our next coaster.

It would be interesting, as it was in 2017 when a new GCI came about after two consecutive B&Ms. But apparently Mystic Timbers is "lower-tier", so...

High tier is b&m, intamin, mack, rmc, gerstlauer, new vekoma.  Sure a gci is fun and ok but none of their rides are game changers.

[Tr0y]

1 hour ago, coaster sally said:

High tier is b&m, intamin, mack, rmc, gerstlauer, new vekoma.  Sure a gci is fun and ok but none of their rides are game changers.

Since the park’s acquisition by Cedar Fair, and it’s current track record of additions at the park. You wont be seeing a game changer at Kings Island any time soon.

[Zader]

On 7/9/2020 at 10:15 PM, coaster sally said:

Sure a gci is fun and ok but none of their rides are game changers.

They do have the model that premiered at IAPPA last year that has inversions and more nimble trains. That could definitely be a game changer for parks that want a traditional woodie and also an inversion or two. Sure there are Gravity Group woodies with inversions, but I think an inverting GCI would be a more grand scale.

 

GCI is also one of my favorite manufacturers and even after 212 coasters, Mystic Timbers is one of the consistently best, most fun coasters I've ridden.

[SonofBaconator]

On 7/9/2020 at 11:38 PM, Tr0y said:

Since the park’s acquisition by Cedar Fair, and it’s current track record of additions at the park. You wont be seeing a game changer at Kings Island any time soon.

There's no reason to if you think about it. The last major game-changer they had was Son of Beast but like you said, that was pre acquisition. That doesn't mean we haven't had good coasters since the acquisition: Diamondback, Banshee, Mystic, Orion, and even Firehawk was a decent move. I think game changing rides are a must if you're a destination park where you have to add pretty impressive additions to keep people coming: Busch Gardens and Cedar Point come to mind. KI as a regional park pulls in over 3 million people annually so unfortunately there's no true need to give the park anything game changing. There's no true competition either, as long as they keep Kentucky Kingdom and Holiday World in check. 

I'm personally happy with what we get. Would I want the park to get game changers and record breakers? Absolutely, who wouldn't? But for a regional park, we're treated very very well. We're constantly ranked high in park polls, some of our coasters are on top 10 lists across the community, and no one ever really has anything bad to say about the park. Also I feel like if we get a massive game changing coaster, people will just be disappointed when the park makes their next installment. The park is focusing more on quality vs quantity which, in my opinion, is a good thing.

[TombRaiderFTW]

I still think there's zero correlation between the Steel Vengeance posters and Cedar Fair's plans, because they're Easter eggs. The sheer number of Easter eggs in Orion's theming should be a sign that there's nothing to that besides winking at enthusiasts. But OP made me imagine a world where there's a Wonder Mountain (from Canada's Wonderland) replica located in Vortex's spot and a coaster located inside it, with occasional peeks (and peaks, heyyoooo) outside. And now I'm gonna be daydreaming about that for the rest of today. It'll never happen, but Kings Island having its own take on the Volcano: the Blast Coaster concept would be so freaking cool. It doesn't have to be Congo-themed like Kings Dominion; it could be mine-themed to fit Rivertown. It'd be neat to see that in the background behind the Eiffel Tower. 

27 minutes ago, Zader said:

They do have the model that premiered at IAPPA last year that has inversions and more nimble trains.

(Emphasis mine.)

This is such a minor thing, and I don't mean to specifically call you out, Zader, but I need to point this out for everyone's reference: It's IAAPA. It stands for the International Association of Amusement Parks and Attractions.

[Zader]

On 7/14/2020 at 2:10 PM, TombRaiderFTW said:

It's IAAPA

Ya got me. This is what happens when I type too fast and don't proofread before I post lol

[BeastForever]

Well, I will say the phrase "game-changing", as many things do, needs defining.

I would argue that depending on what you qualify as such, the level of game-changing in industry in general has declined as time has gone on (less parts of "the game" left that need changed)

I'd say Cedar Fair 2008-Present is focused more on letting other parks/chains try out new concepts, and refining said concepts as they see fit.

Even for CP this is true. Note that SV happened a full seven years after the first RMC Conversion in NTG (2011), and as "game-changing" as on might think it to be it only marginally claimed its hybrid height/speed records from Iron Rattler (which opened in 2013). And its speed/height already have been surpassed by Zadra and Iron Gwazi, which very well could be slightly one-upped sometime in the next few years as well.

GateKeeper and Valravn are similiar stories, in that they weren't the firsts of their kind either, claimed slight categorical records, only to have those records surpassed shortly thereafter (Valravn's by CF themselves - Yukon Striker.)

Ironically, I would argue if there are two records that are to stand for quite some time, it would be the ones KI currently has - longest wooden and longest invert (especially longest wooden).

[coaster sally]

Cedar Fair will buy an intamin before the next b&m(sans the hyper at great america).

[PKIDelirium]

I think it would be pretty safe to say that Cedar Fair just outright got fed up with Intamin, especially after the Maverick woes and then outright demolishing Shoot the Rapids.

If they were still going to be Intamin customers, Copperhead Strike would probably have been Intamin instead of Mack.

[coaster sally]

7 minutes ago, PKIDelirium said:

I think it would be pretty safe to say that Cedar Fair just outright got fed up with Intamin, especially after the Maverick woes and then outright demolishing Shoot the Rapids.

If they were still going to be Intamin customers, Copperhead Strike would probably have been Intamin instead of Mack.

Wanted to try mack.  I am sure they found out it wasn't worth the money.  Macks are more expensive than Intaride.  Besides intaride is outselling basically everyone globally besides vekoma.

Universal is hitching their wagon to intaride like CP did....

[IndyGuy4KI]

10 hours ago, coaster sally said:

Wanted to try mack.  I am sure they found out it wasn't worth the money.  Macks are more expensive than Intaride.  Besides intaride is outselling basically everyone globally besides vekoma.

Universal is hitching their wagon to intaride like CP did....

Can you back up your statement of "wanted to try Mack" with evidence? I tend to agree with @PKIDelirium's statement. You seem to be swayed by your love of Intamin with your posts..

[coaster sally]

12 minutes ago, IndyGuy4KI said:

Can you back up your statement of "wanted to try Mack" with evidence? I tend to agree with @PKIDelirium's statement. You seem to be swayed by your love of Intamin with your posts..

Since 2007 they have worked with mack twice.  First on sierra sidewinder then Copperhead strike.  To piggyback what evidence shows mack is their new go to for a multi launch?  With the pandemic I dont see CF spending more money for a mach over a new and improved intamin product like taiga, taron, etc.

[IndyGuy4KI]

6 minutes ago, coaster sally said:

Since 2007 they have worked with mack twice.  First on sierra sidewinder then Copperhead strike.  To piggyback what evidence shows mack is their new go to for a multi launch?  With the pandemic I dont see CF spending more money for a mach over a new and improved intamin product like taiga, taron, etc.

That really does not answer my question...

[BeastForever]

22 hours ago, PKIDelirium said:

If they were still going to be Intamin customers, Copperhead Strike would probably have been Intamin instead of Mack.

On that note, I'd say the biggest obstacle to CF ever working with Intamin again is that even if Intamin does go several years with better reliability and no major incidents, at this point there's just no real need to work with Intamin since almost every one of their products has had a substitute or equivalent made by somebody else.

In the 2000s, Intamin was the only company one could turn to for a lot of things, so I think that afforded some leeway from parks who were willing to put up with the issues/risk.

However, in the last ten years:

- B&M now makes giga coasters

- Mack now makes mega-lites, blitz coasters, and full-out 200ft + mega coasters

- RMC's Topper Track has made the demand for plug n' play woodies effectively obsolete

- Gerstlauer makes Infinity coasters, which could be viewed as a response to Fahrenheit (which in turn could be viewed as a response to Gerstlauer's Eurofighters)

- S&S has refined their compressed air launch system to be the successor to Intamin's hydraulically-launched accelerator coasters. Also, their freespins have replaced Intamin's Zacspin as the compact 4D coaster of choice

- Even Vekoma has drastically upgraded their portfolio, which now includes rides (Lech, Abyssus) that can be seen as competitors to many Intamin-like coasters.

Seemingly, all the things that were exclusive or nearly exclusive to Intamin can now be purchased elsewhere, and often as more reliable and safer alternatives.

That having said, I should note that isn't to say Intamin is doomed as a company by any means. They just don't have the edge they once had...

To coaster sally's point I would actually agree that the "downfall of Intamin" narrative is a bit overblown. Sure, they are not as prevalent as they used to be in the US market but there are still are a LOT of major Intamin coasters going up elsewhere in the world. They're just in places that us as North American enthusiasts naturally don't have much attention invested into. And as mentioned earlier SeaWorld and Universal are still interested in Intamin.

A quick glance at rcdb shows that from 2015-2020 they've averaged about 7-8 coasters per year, which is surprisingly similar to what their overall output was prior to their decline in the US market.

Although Cedar Fair and Six Flags have made it clear that they've no interest anymore to work with Intamin, to Intamin's credit they seem to be doing just fine business-wise in spite of that.