The Beast Retrack Work

[Oldschool75]

 

(Redacted) Not worth my time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Maddog]

I personally think the work in the helix section is major because they are redoing a section of footers that perhaps have slid or lost solid foundational support.  There are some fairly major elevation changes in the woods around The Beast, and it is possible 43 years after constructing those footers things have moved a bit too much.  No point in working on just track or structural improvements if it doesn't have a solid base.  I do believe that this type of rehab shows how KI wants to keep this ride around for awhile. 

I suspect other areas are getting some tweaks and such to smooth out the ride, but I don't expect any new elements.

Hopefully there will be some announcement from the park soon!!  (but I'm not holding my breath)

[Kenban]

The paths into the helix are not large enough to permit heavy equipment access.  If there is a need for something larger then what can fit through the existing opening it is normal to take down a section of a helix temporarily.  The work in the helix looks like that to me, they want to get something larger then what can normally access the helix.

[RedRacer76]

5 hours ago, Kenban said:

The paths into the helix are not large enough to permit heavy equipment access.  If there is a need for something larger then what can fit through the existing opening it is normal to take down a section of a helix temporarily.  The work in the helix looks like that to me, they want to get something larger then what can normally access the helix.

The paths are definitely big enough. There is another path on the back side of the helix that you can't see. They took out that part of the helix for the intent of retracking, not easier access. They've been replacing the supports in the helix year after year for a while. 

 

6 hours ago, Maddog said:

I personally think the work in the helix section is major because they are redoing a section of footers that perhaps have slid or lost solid foundational support.  There are some fairly major elevation changes in the woods around The Beast, and it is possible 43 years after constructing those footers things have moved a bit too much.  No point in working on just track or structural improvements if it doesn't have a solid base.  I do believe that this type of rehab shows how KI wants to keep this ride around for awhile. 

I suspect other areas are getting some tweaks and such to smooth out the ride, but I don't expect any new elements.

Hopefully there will be some announcement from the park soon!!  (but I'm not holding my breath)

I don't know if the park will announce it, but I hope they do. In my time of going to the park and working there this is the biggest project I've ever seen for The Beast. 2022 is going to be a good year for The Beast.

[DoomPlague]

20 hours ago, Captain Nemo said:

When it comes to The Beast it is very clear KI is very nostalgic about keeping the layout the same and as close to it's original experience. That being said I am against the idea of total reprofiling with a different layout but not against a reprofile of certain segments with slight differences. For example the first drop becoming steeper and updated to have a more modern angle of drop with zero straight segments, and an extra hill at the long break shed. In addition I am pro getting new trains for the coaster nd believe it is long overdo. If The Beast can receive newer trains with help against track wear and tear (even if it means adding an I track) to remove all the trims on the ride. Personally The Beast I feel would benefit greatly by retracking one certain segments to GCI or RMCs topper track. This would extend the life of the coaster and costs, additionally it could allow for the trims to be removed all the while keeping the original ride experience the same and continue it's legacy.

Yeah, we won't see any real layout changes but tweaks to sections is fine by me if it improves the ride experience. Though honestly I wouldn't mind if they shortened the brake shed and threw in some quick element before it.

Does RMC even do topper track at all anymore? It sounds like Gravity Group's new precut/engineered track (which is hopefully what they're using) could make a big difference without compromising The Beast's claim of being a wood coaster.
 

[Captain Nemo]

1 hour ago, DoomPlague said:

Yeah, we won't see any real layout changes but tweaks to sections is fine by me if it improves the ride experience. Though honestly I wouldn't mind if they shortened the brake shed and threw in some quick element before it.

Does RMC even do topper track at all anymore? It sounds like Gravity Group's new precut/engineered track (which is hopefully what they're using) could make a big difference without compromising The Beast's claim of being a wood coaster.
 

Agreed. The GCI track would benefit greatly. 

The areas that need it the most are the first turn out of the drop, turn into the shed, the quick dip, entry into the second lift, and most if not all of the helix

[silver2005]

On trains, while I would take Millennium Flyers on Beast in a heartbeat, my concern would be a drop in capacity unless GCI is willing to make their trains go above 12 cars.   Beast needs long trains since its such a long coaster without a modern/efficient block system.  MF's are also way more proven than Timberliners.  

[KI FANATIC 37]

On 11/29/2021 at 5:47 PM, Captain Nemo said:

When it comes to The Beast it is very clear KI is very nostalgic about keeping the layout the same and as close to it's original experience. That being said I am against the idea of total reprofiling with a different layout but not against a reprofile of certain segments with slight differences. For example the first drop becoming steeper and updated to have a more modern angle of drop with zero straight segments, and an extra hill at the long break shed. In addition I am pro getting new trains for the coaster nd believe it is long overdo. If The Beast can receive newer trains with help against track wear and tear (even if it means adding an I track) to remove all the trims on the ride. Personally The Beast I feel would benefit greatly by retracking one certain segments to GCI or RMCs topper track. This would extend the life of the coaster and costs, additionally it could allow for the trims to be removed all the while keeping the original ride experience the same and continue it's legacy.

I couldnt agree more with this. I think this would be great for the park and The Beast. Do I think it will happen...probably not.

[BB1]

Trimless Beast.... One could only hope! 

[Shawn Meyer]

I wonder If they'll put in steel supports like they did the one year for the helix? Anyone remember that from a year or two ago?

[Dan]

On 11/29/2021 at 5:47 PM, Captain Nemo said:

When it comes to The Beast it is very clear KI is very nostalgic about keeping the layout the same and as close to it's original experience. That being said I am against the idea of total reprofiling with a different layout but not against a reprofile of certain segments with slight differences. For example the first drop becoming steeper and updated to have a more modern angle of drop with zero straight segments, and an extra hill at the long break shed. In addition I am pro getting new trains for the coaster nd believe it is long overdo. If The Beast can receive newer trains with help against track wear and tear (even if it means adding an I track) to remove all the trims on the ride. Personally The Beast I feel would benefit greatly by retracking one certain segments to GCI or RMCs topper track. This would extend the life of the coaster and costs, additionally it could allow for the trims to be removed all the while keeping the original ride experience the same and continue it's legacy.

The only thing that needs to happen is getting rid of the magnetic brakes. Whatever reprofiling they need to do or adding support structure, do it. Or go back to shims 

[MDMC01]

On 12/1/2021 at 9:51 AM, BB1 said:

Trimless Beast.... One could only hope! 

That would be really cool to use as few brakes as possible (at least on the first half) just to see how crazy the ride could be (see Voyage at HWN)

-MDMC, slightly crossthreading

[rlentless]

On 11/29/2021 at 5:47 PM, Captain Nemo said:

When it comes to The Beast it is very clear KI is very nostalgic about keeping the layout the same and as close to it's original experience. That being said I am against the idea of total reprofiling with a different layout but not against a reprofile of certain segments with slight differences. For example the first drop becoming steeper and updated to have a more modern angle of drop with zero straight segments, and an extra hill at the long break shed. In addition I am pro getting new trains for the coaster nd believe it is long overdo. If The Beast can receive newer trains with help against track wear and tear (even if it means adding an I track) to remove all the trims on the ride. Personally The Beast I feel would benefit greatly by retracking one certain segments to GCI or RMCs topper track. This would extend the life of the coaster and costs, additionally it could allow for the trims to be removed all the while keeping the original ride experience the same and continue it's legacy.

I would be in favor of an extra hill at the long break shed.  The one after the first drop and hill in the ravine.

[Skibum]

4 hours ago, rlentless said:

I would be in favor of an extra hill at the long break shed.  The one after the first drop and hill in the ravine.

They should eliminate the magnetic brake that slows the coaster down immediately after the first drop before the drop into the ravine.  Then, use the ravine's full depth and come out higher, right turn at 90 degrees, and then drop and add a camelback where the shed is (eliminating that whole dull stretch).

[NegativeGs]

On 12/1/2021 at 9:51 AM, BB1 said:

Trimless Beast.... One could only hope! 

I don’t know if the trim breaks are original or added later. Recently, they felt overly aggressive - perhaps to slow the trains due to the roughness of the track and resulting rider discomfort. Hopefully retracking can reduce the trims (to near zero).

[silver2005]

17 minutes ago, NegativeGs said:

I don’t know if the trim breaks are original or added later. Recently, they felt overly aggressive - perhaps to slow the trains due to the roughness of the track and resulting rider discomfort. Hopefully retracking can reduce the trims (to near zero).

Here's your answer.  POV circa 1979.  Trims on the same places sans the helix.

 

 

[FoF96"]

On 12/4/2021 at 10:28 PM, silver2005 said:

Here's your answer.  POV circa 1979.  Trims on the same places sans the helix.

 

 

But different braking system.  Skid vs magnet.  One is adjustable, the other is not without physically adding material.

[ThrillKingsFitzy]

The helix didn’t have the gradual banking back then. Looked a lot more aggressive. I honestly can’t wait for this retrack, The Beast absolutely beat me up on my last ride and it is sadly my least favorite adult coaster at KI right now. Hopefully this puts it in the right direction!

Also just to clarify, the drop and the helix were the two roughest parts of the ride. Guess there was a lot of people who noticed this.

[silver2005]

6 hours ago, FoF96" said:

But different braking system.  Skid vs magnet.  One is adjustable, the other is not without physically adding material.

Even if they were different systems, they served the same purpose being in the same spots.   Another thing people have to realize is that Beast probably uses one of the heaviest trains on a wooden coaster out there.  Even with the lower track with it being a terrain coaster, that's a lot of wear and tear through the corners. 

[BoddaH1994]

On 12/6/2021 at 9:43 AM, silver2005 said:

Even if they were different systems, they served the same purpose being in the same spots.   Another thing people have to realize is that Beast probably uses one of the heaviest trains on a wooden coaster out there.  Even with the lower track with it being a terrain coaster, that's a lot of wear and tear through the corners. 

One of the reasons why The Racer was smoother this year was this was the first time that the retracting was able to fully and totally account for the added weight of the trains with lap bars and head rests and whatnot. That’s why the train always felt like it landed at the bottom of the hills instead of coasting to the bottom. Assuming that Beast is getting a similar treatment, the future is bright for that coaster. 

[PKIDelirium]

I really wish KI would send their PTC trains to PTC for an overhaul. The headrests, added dividers, conversion to ratchet bars, etc was all done in-house and makes them heavier than they need to be. The same kind of train runs on CP's Blue Streak, and those are generally sent to PTC for their offseason work.

[TombRaiderFTW]

^ See, here's what I'm wondering... I couldn't tell you where I heard this because it's been too long, but I feel I've heard before that KI converted the trains from 4-bench trains to 3-bench trains in-house. If there's anything to that, I wonder if PTC would even entertain doing that kind of refurbishment.

[NegativeGs]

On 12/6/2021 at 7:25 AM, ThrillKingsFitzy said:

The helix didn’t have the gradual banking back then. Looked a lot more aggressive. I honestly can’t wait for this retrack, The Beast absolutely beat me up on my last ride and it is sadly my least favorite adult coaster at KI right now. Hopefully this puts it in the right direction!

Also just to clarify, the drop and the helix were the two roughest parts of the ride. Guess there was a lot of people who noticed this.

I agreed. This year, I rode The Beast just twice. Each time in a non-wheeled row to minimize discomfort. Pre 2018, I rode The Beast every KI visit. Seems to me that the track’s ongoing deterioration, resulted in increased trim breaks to reduce rider discomfort. Looking forward to April 2022!

[NegativeGs]

On 12/4/2021 at 10:28 PM, silver2005 said:

Here's your answer.  POV circa 1979.  Trims on the same places sans the helix.

 

 

Watching this footage a few times, I only see one trim break at 2 mins and 30 seconds.

[PKIDelirium]

Skid brakes, the two "bars" between the track rails. They cover the entire brake shed, and are also on the first drop, first hill, and start of the drop from the second lift. The mags just slow the trains a LOT more abruptly than the skid brakes did. You might be thinking the old booster wheels at the end of the shed are the trims.

[silver2005]

In case you missed the point of me posting that video, @NegativeGs asked if the trims were original which is a resounding yes.   

[Kenban]

1 hour ago, TombRaiderFTW said:

I feel I've heard before that KI converted the trains from 4-bench trains to 3-bench trains in-house. If there's anything to that, I wonder if PTC would even entertain doing that kind of refurbishment.

It’s not a rumor.  I know it was discussed by Jeff Gramke at Coaster Stock, and I am sure it’s been publicly discussed at other times.  The trains that ran on The Beast this summer, are the original 4 bench trains from 1979 when the ride opened.

It originally had 4 trains, each with five 4 bench cars, for a total of 40 passengers.  During the rides first off season so before 1980, the park rebuilt the cars and chopped the cars chassis from 4 bench to 3 bench.  They broke up the 4th train and added an additional car to the remaining 3 trains.  So 3 trains, each with six 3 bench cars, giving each train a capacity of 36 riders.  The park never has bothered to fix the loading area which is why the gates do not line up with the trains rows.  The lead car from the 4th train was shorted to I believe a single row, and then given to an employee who retired as a gift.  Which if you do the math leaves one final car which I have no idea what happened to.

I am sure PTC would be willing to work on the trains, I am not sure if they would demand to replace modified items which would include the chassis.

My opinion is that it’s time for the trains to just be replaced, even if it is just new PTC trains, it just feels like the current trains have just been modified too many times.  Although a total rebuild by PTC would be nice if it includes them upgrading components.  Foot pedals to unlock restraints instead of the nails.  Upgraded restraint hardware so the park can do away with the 2 click rule and have similar policies to the rest of the chain.

[PKIDelirium]

41 minutes ago, silver2005 said:

In case you missed the point of me posting that video, @NegativeGs asked if the trims were original which is a resounding yes.   

I know, but he was seeming to confuse the original kicker wheels as being the trims.

[PKIDelirium]

12 minutes ago, Kenban said:

I am sure PTC would be willing to work on the trains, I am not sure if they would demand to replace modified items which would include the chassis.

My opinion is that it’s time for the trains to just be replaced, even if it is just new PTC trains, it just feels like the current trains have just been modified too many times.  Although a total rebuild by PTC would be nice if it includes them upgrading components.  Foot pedals to unlock restraints instead of the nails.  Upgraded restraint hardware so the park can do away with the 2 click rule and have similar policies to the rest of the chain.

I don't think they need to be replaced, but a proper factory rebuild by PTC for both Beast and Racer trains would do wonders. Too much has been done to them in-house over the years.

[Kenban]

53 minutes ago, PKIDelirium said:

I don't think they need to be replaced, but a proper factory rebuild by PTC for both Beast and Racer trains would do wonders. Too much has been done to them in-house over the years.

I have to go from facts to rumor and speculation here.  But I have heard that there are differences between the 4 and 3 bench trains that could not just be cut off.  For instance I have heard that the steel is thicker on the 4 bench and that means The Beasts trains weigh more and are stiffer then a regular 3 bench PTC train.

I have tried to get an answer to this before.  But, I have never been able to get a straight answer.  It’s also possible, none of the people I asked, know the answer.  I remember one time the answer was basiclly the cuts were very careful and they made sure they got the geometry correct.  The problem is that does not really answer the question of what differences remained between the modified trains and a train that started as 3 benches.  It might be that only PTC knows the answer.

How different are the trains then a standard 3 bench PTC?  Are those differences causing more damage to the track, or do those differences lead to a worse experience for quests?  If so they should really be replaced.

I will say this, I have heard that something is happening.  Replacement?  Rebuild by PTC?  We might find out when we hear more details about the retracking.