Kings Island’s 2022 capex is (sort of) announced!

[BoddaH1994]

Grand Carnivale, Haunt and Winterfest!

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20220811005015/en/Cedar-Fair-Announces-Exciting-Capital-Plans-for-2023-Operating-Season?fbclid=IwAR0YcP-Ok-yHoDsbXQDHh6UO0KZgwOmYGO10ptSY-H8Qb1SqFEpg34MzZwc&fs=e&s=cl

[Benjamin22]

So nothing new got it. 

[teenageninja]

Pretty hilarious that even CGA is getting some additions even though it's time is nearing.

[Maddog]

Yep, really excited for the capital investments in "food service and delivery systems" and "a full lineup of seasonal events"  

Um, yeah... 

[beastfan11]

This is just personal conjecture, but a lack of a major addition in 2023 makes me feel like something significant could be on its way for 2024 or onward. No reason get upset. 2022 was the best season I’ve personally experienced and there we no massive capital investments. No need to be upset.  
 

[FUN&ONLY!]

1 minute ago, beastfan11 said:

This is just personal conjecture, but a lack of a major addition in 2023 makes me feel like something significant could be on its way for 2024. 

I sure hope so.

[Benjamin22]

2 minutes ago, beastfan11 said:

This is just personal conjecture, but a lack of a major addition in 2023 makes me feel like something significant could be on its way for 2024 or onward. No reason get upset. 2022 was the best season I’ve personally experienced and there we no massive capital investments. No need to be upset.  
 

Most of the 2022 additions are gone come next season, food, fireworks, shows gone.

[beastfan11]

Just now, Benjamin22 said:

Most of the 2022 additions are gone come next season, food, fireworks, shows gone.

What’s your source for this information? 

[Benjamin22]

1 minute ago, beastfan11 said:

What’s your source for this information? 

I mean a lot of that stuff seemed to be just for the 50th anniversary, I don’t have a source just speculation. 

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

18 minutes ago, beastfan11 said:

This is just personal conjecture, but a lack of a major addition in 2023 makes me feel like something significant could be on its way for 2024 or onward. No reason get upset. 2022 was the best season I’ve personally experienced and there we no massive capital investments. No need to be upset.  
 

I doubt we'll see a coaster in 2024 knowing our last ride addition was a coaster. I'm honestly expecting a Soak City expansion and/or a flat ride in 2024. They could honestly do both in the same year since Wonderland is adding both a coaster and flat next year. Maybe a coaster in 2025 or 2026.

[Benjamin22]

2 minutes ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

I doubt we'll see a coaster in 2024 knowing our last ride addition was a coaster. I'm honestly expecting a Soak City expansion and/or a flat ride in 2024. They could honestly do both in the same year since Wonderland is adding both a coaster and flat next year. Maybe a coaster in 2025 or 2026.

Whatever they do next year it better not be just one area of the park as that’s not going to be sustainable for the park. Next year should be like canadas wonderland where they improve Planet Snoopy while also adding a new high thrill flat ride elsewhere in the park.

[beastfan11]

4 minutes ago, Benjamin22 said:

I mean a lot of that stuff seemed to be just for the 50th anniversary, I don’t have a source just speculation. 

I mean, if you break down a lot of the 2022 additions you’ll see that they can easily carry over. 
 

1. Food - In today’s announcement they mentioned improvements to service and delivery systems. That’s definitely a positive. Any menu items created specifically for the 50th could continue to be options or options of the same caliber could be introduced (hopefully). 
 

2. Fireworks - The 50th show could be brought back easily if they wanted too. It would require a few creative changes, but it could be done. Even if that’s it for the 50th show, the infrastructure of the current show (projections, drones, lasers, etc.) could be used in a new show that could be just as great. 
 

3. Shows - I’m not sure if there are any 2022 shows specifically tailored to be dumped after this season. They could all theoretically return. 
 

In addition to what you mentioned, you have a vast amount of general park improvements and the massive undertaking that was The Beast retracking project. That’s a capital investment worthy of being a season’s “new ride” by itself. 
 

Much of what 2022 brought will carry over I’m sure. KI’s time in the sun will be coming. 

[beastfan11]

7 minutes ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

I doubt we'll see a coaster in 2024 knowing our last ride addition was a coaster. I'm honestly expecting a Soak City expansion and/or a flat ride in 2024. They could honestly do both in the same year since Wonderland is adding both a coaster and flat next year. Maybe a coaster in 2025 or 2026.

A significant addition doesn’t always mean a new coaster. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by beastfan11
Apologies for the double post

[disco2000]

While Haunt is assumed and likely will happen, they did put OR in the statement....so they could go the way of other CF parks that eliminated Haunt in favor of Tricks and Treats only....

In the fall, 10 parks will offer Halloween-themed special events such as Tricks and Treats or Halloween Haunt that are sure to appeal to those looking for some frightful family fun or a good scare. And as temperatures drop, WinterFest will return to Carowinds, California’s Great America, Kings Dominion, Canada’s Wonderland and Kings Island.

It seems across social media most feel like this on the announcement for KI 

 

[Browntggrr]

I remember a time when CF first took over & many here were concerned that with the flagship park being so close, KI was not going to get big rides.

16 years later, 5 coaster additions and over $91 million spent on them has pretty much squashed that concern.

And major upgrades to the park's most epic coasters including a paint job that just makes older KI enthusiasts just stop & grin.

Not many parks have the same experience.  I for one can live for 3 years with the absence of a new attraction- especially knowing the recent history. 

There is still that large plot of land available where Vortex was at.  With today's announcements it appears CF is adding attractions that are nostalgic to some of the parks.  Could a version of Vortex return??

[MrSourNinja]

21 minutes ago, beastfan11 said:

A significant addition doesn’t always mean a new coaster. 

No but food and entertainment is not significant either. 

 

23 minutes ago, beastfan11 said:

I mean, if you break down a lot of the 2022 additions you’ll see that they can easily carry over. 
 

1. Food - In today’s announcement they mentioned improvements to service and delivery systems. That’s definitely a positive. Any menu items created specifically for the 50th could continue to be options or options of the same caliber could be introduced (hopefully). 
 

2. Fireworks - The 50th show could be brought back easily if they wanted too. It would require a few creative changes, but it could be done. Even if that’s it for the 50th show, the infrastructure of the current show (projections, drones, lasers, etc.) could be used in a new show that could be just as great. 
 

3. Shows - I’m not sure if there are any 2022 shows specifically tailored to be dumped after this season. They could all theoretically return. 
 

In addition to what you mentioned, you have a vast amount of general park improvements and the massive undertaking that was The Beast retracking project. That’s a capital investment worthy of being a season’s “new ride” by itself. 
 

Much of what 2022 brought will carry over I’m sure. KI’s time in the sun will be coming. 

Ride maintenance should be expected not praised. Even with the retracking The Beast still needs a lot of work. This is after they put aside general maintenance and let it get to the point where it was so rough. 
 

Did it cost a lot of money? Definitely. Was that also partially their fault? Very much so. 

[BB1]

So what I don't think people understand is that KI doesn't necessarily need a new attraction for 2023. Kings Island still is building up their merchandising game, they are still making improvements on food packages (Even though if Chef Major is reading this you are absolutely clobbering the competition right now) and there is still a lot of TLC they can offer for the park. Am I upset that we didn't get anything? Somewhat yeah, I would have loved to see a new addition for the park to move forward. However I can also rest on the fact that we did just get a major Giga (which many of my peers have been slobbering over for years mind you), that should satisfy your hunger for a new addition for quite sometime. Am I upset with how KI didn't get a "new addition for 2022"? Yeah, but at the same time we just got a REALLY nice entertainment package that for once I can say really stood out; coupled with the Timberwolf Theater finally getting some TLC and some amazing concerts. Oh and let's not forget a major retrack of The Beast and a major refresh of Racer. Those were our new attraction funds being put to work, hence why the sting isn't as bad. 

I am cautiously optimistic that this year was a test to see if the fans want Phantom Theater back, and they do. To have a ride already set up before gauging guest approval is daft, to have a ride set up maybe a season or two after having such a successful show on the ride would be a very wise decision on behalf of the park. I am also cautiously optimistic that we could see a new foodie option finally coming up.....Like ripping out Outer Hanks and putting in a sit down or patio covered German restaurant with authentic sausages, pork and steak. (Call it Herr Konig's or something, make it unique) We already know that part of the park has some future expansion plans, so to have a food option that is different, and that can handle such a surge of guests besides Festhaus would be a boon to the park. We have the main guy behind corporate food offerings at our park, Chef Major has done some amazing things for the park and I honestly hope that they capitalize on his experience with a new option like this. Or maybe the park goes a different direction and puts a new smokehouse style restaurant back where the Big Box o'FUN (R) is currently in Rivertown. We have options, the park needs new options, even if we don't get any of these I'm sure the park is going to do some TLC jobs on rides like Diamondback to finally give a consistent coat of paint to one of the icons of the park. 

[SonofBaconator]

We’ve been taken care of ever since CF bought the park- we will be fine regardless of whether we get something new every other year or not 

[BoddaH1994]

Although I doubt we will see a new ride, I still believe that there is far, far more to KI’s 2023 story than Grand Carnivale, Haunt, and Winterfest. 

[BeeastFarmer]

A Cedar Fair KI that existed from 2006-2014 was almost like a six flags park. I'm happy with where we have come since '13 and excited about where we are going. It comes as no surprise that nothing major is on dick, they have repeatedly stated that they are focusing chain wide on experience , memory and place making and large investments will be more spread out. 

[Benjamin22]

1 minute ago, BoddaH1994 said:

Although I doubt we will see a new ride, I still believe that there is far, far more to KI’s 2023 story than Grand Carnivale, Haunt, and Winterfest. 

Then they should have announced that today to be honest, because right now grand carnival ain’t going to be enough to convince some people to get season passes. But yes I agree there will likely be other small improvements.

[nhimes90]

I’m not surprised KI isn’t getting a major ride or attraction next year. I don’t think a lot of people realize how much time, effort, and money went into this 50th season.

I, for one, would like to see KI spend the remainder of this season and next upgrading and enhancing both Halloween Haunt and Winterfest. Enhancing both these events would be a win in my book. Haunt has slowly, in my opinion, been dwindled down since CF ownership. I would like to see that grow in size and “production” quality. I miss the scare zones that were effectively themed. I miss the trail haunts and how the train was incorporated into haunt as well. 
 

I think there are many things the park can do to enhance every guests overall experience and in my mind it doesn’t require a huge $20 million dollar attraction. The park could easily use $2-5 million and really upgrade all their events. 
 

Just my thoughts….

[jsus]

41 minutes ago, disco2000 said:

While Haunt is assumed and likely will happen, they did put OR in the statement....so they could go the way of other CF parks that eliminated Haunt in favor of Tricks and Treats only....

In the fall, 10 parks will offer Halloween-themed special events such as Tricks and Treats or Halloween Haunt that are sure to appeal to those looking for some frightful family fun or a good scare. And as temperatures drop, WinterFest will return to Carowinds, California’s Great America, Kings Dominion, Canada’s Wonderland and Kings Island.

And why wouldn't you read it as follows?

"Tricks and Treats is sure to appeal to those looking for some frightful family fun"

and

"Halloween Haunt is sure to appeal to those looking for a good scare".

Because both of those sections use the word "or".  It implies there are options depending on what you're looking for.  Why would they advertise that they might cater to one group or the other but not necessarily both?

[disco2000]

^I read it that way because they eliminated Haunt at two parks this year....and depending on how Haunt goes from a security standpoint, it is always possible that a park may decide not to continue with it...

If all 10 parks were to have both why wouldn't they use AND instead of OR....

And why didn't they specifically mention the 10 parks for Tricks and Treats or Haunt....They specifically announced the parks getting Winterfest...

Your wording above is much better and clearer...

But as we have seen with the Prestige pass confusion, wording of statements are not their strong suit 

 

[nhimes90]

12 minutes ago, jsus said:

And why wouldn't you read it as follows?

"Tricks and Treats is sure to appeal to those looking for some frightful family fun"

and

"Halloween Haunt is sure to appeal to those looking for a good scare".

Because both of those sections use the word "or".  It implies there are options depending on what you're looking for.  Why would they advertise that they might cater to one group or the other but not necessarily both?

 

6 minutes ago, disco2000 said:

^I read it that way because they eliminated Haunt at two parks this year....and depending on how Haunt goes from a security standpoint, it is always possible that a park may decide not to continue with it...

If all 10 parks were to have both why wouldn't they use AND instead of OR....

And why didn't they specifically mention the 10 parks for Tricks and Treats or Haunt....They specifically announced the parks getting Winterfest...

Your wording above is much better and clearer...

But as we have seen with the Prestige pass confusion, wording of statements are not their strong suit 

 

Now I know anything can happen, but I cannot see CF cancelling KI’s Haunt. Outside of Knotts, KI has been voted #1 and has historically brought in some of KI’s highest attendance numbers and income. 

[disco2000]

^I agree and is why I said in my post that was attacked that "Haunt is assumed and likely will happen" but the wording in the announcement is vague and does give them an out and wiggle room should they decide to go in a different direction.  I was simply pointing this out that it can be interpreted different ways... 

Winterfest and Grand Carnivale is clear which parks are getting it based on the announcement; Haunt and Trick&Treats are assumed since they didn't specifically mention the parks...but the assumption is probably correct....but it isn't clear to a new or potential customer that may not be aware which parks currently have it.  But most of us could have assumed the parks getting Winterfest and Grand Carnvale as well... Why be specific for two of the events and not the Fall events?

As you said, anything can happen.

[jsus]

15 minutes ago, disco2000 said:

^I read it that way because they eliminated Haunt at two parks this year....and depending on how Haunt goes from a security standpoint, it is always possible that a park may decide not to continue with it...

If all 10 parks were to have both why wouldn't they use AND instead of OR....

And why didn't they specifically mention the 10 parks for Tricks and Treats or Haunt....They specifically announced the parks getting Winterfest...

Your wording above is much better and clearer...

But as we have seen with the Prestige pass confusion, wording of statements are not their strong suit 

 

Again, wording and consistency aren't exactly Cedar Fair's strong suit, as you pointed out.  A lot of things they point out require one to either reach out for clarification, or wait and see.

In this case, all we know is that 10 unnamed parks (all but 2) will offer at least Tricks and Treats.  Some will also offer Haunt.  No reason to suspect a park would only offer Haunt but not Tricks and Treats, though anything is possible.

What the press release didn't specify is which parks will offer the full experience.  As to why, we could speculate all night.  Maybe it's too many parks to name.  Maybe not all parks have their plans set and so they want to wait to make those announcements later.

Winterfest is more of a general event that has been successful at those parks in the past, and so it's easy to say they'll all bring it back.

What's for sure is that until the costs of Haunt outweigh the benefits, they would be foolish to give that money up.  Especially if the alternative would be to use some of the huge profits toward increased security before cancelling the event.  They can always increase pricing to decrease demand if they wanted to, to see what impact that has on unruly guests...

[CoastersRZ]

I still find it odd that Worlds of Fun is not bringing back Winterfest.  They had it when it debuted at KI.  But it was not brought back last year, and looks like it will not be back this year.

[brenthodge]

The new area at Carrowinds seems to be exactly the type of attention that KI should get with Rivertown and Oktoberfest. Both of these areas are perfect opportunities for them to develop along the strategy lines that CF seems to be pursuing:

Carowinds Vice President & General Manager Manny Gonzalez said, “Guests can look forward to in Aeronautica is a new way to experience this property from food to the attractions and the theming of the celebration of flying. Guests will be immersed into this new experience.”

Gonzalez goes on to say that “The Company has been focused on looking at the areas of the park that we are able to develop a comprehensive way to hit our five senses, as we invest and bring in new excitements… that is what I’m most excited about.”

Those two areas seem perfect for the "5 senses" approach. I personally wouldn't care if we got another "major coaster" for another 8-10 years if they had used the 50th as a time to launch a 4-6 year long range plan to "bring back classic thrills and themes, while introducing exciting new and thrilling experiences (flat ride and maybe smaller coaster) as we look to the past to set a course for the future of Kings Island". Then as the core areas (An enlarged and totally themed Oktoberfest, and a revamped and integrated Rivertown, Camp Snoopy, and River City Water Works) come to completion, announce a complete re-work of Old Coney to celebrate the 60th anniversary of the park with a massive new coaster Big Red Machine taking the back area (WindSeeker  - Vortex) that completes the "revisioning" of the park. 

[MrSourNinja]

4 minutes ago, brenthodge said:

The new area at Carrowinds seems to be exactly the type of attention that KI should get with Rivertown and Oktoberfest. Both of these areas are perfect opportunities for them to develop along the strategy lines that CF seems to be pursuing:

Carowinds Vice President & General Manager Manny Gonzalez said, “Guests can look forward to in Aeronautica is a new way to experience this property from food to the attractions and the theming of the celebration of flying. Guests will be immersed into this new experience.”

Gonzalez goes on to say that “The Company has been focused on looking at the areas of the park that we are able to develop a comprehensive way to hit our five senses, as we invest and bring in new excitements… that is what I’m most excited about.”

Those two areas seem perfect for the "5 senses" approach. I personally wouldn't care if we got another "major coaster" for another 8-10 years if they had used the 50th as a time to launch a 4-6 year long range plan to "bring back classic thrills and themes, while introducing exciting new and thrilling experiences (flat ride and maybe smaller coaster) as we look to the past to set a course for the future of Kings Island". Then as the core areas (An enlarged and totally themed Oktoberfest, and a revamped and integrated Rivertown, Camp Snoopy, and River City Water Works) come to completion, announce a complete re-work of Old Coney to celebrate the 60th anniversary of the park with a massive new coaster Big Red Machine taking the back area (WindSeeker  - Vortex) that completes the "revisioning" of the park. 

Agreed!!! I LOVE coasters but man I really just want investment into cohesiveness and experiences. I loved some of the flats at Carowinds and wish we had more.