What if The Bat 1981 was a success?

[dropdasher]

I have always wondered this.  What would KI look like today if The Bat 1981 was a success?  How would that change how the park looks today from coasters, flat rides, potentially not being bought by some chains, being potentially bought by some chains, and how that would change its sister parks.  Does anyone have any alternate reality for this?   I have no clue where this should go so rumors it goes.

[Browntggrr]

Aside from there was no way Bat would have ever been successful the way it was designed, the functional suspended coaster design never became a major draw for parks and only a select few are considered a success.

I believe Vortex had way more exposure & success to KI than a suspended coaster would have.

And the rest is history.......

[TombRaiderFTW]

This is pure speculation: I think the idea that inspired the suspended coaster concept was that, instead of having to bank the track, the train would bank itself. As has been pointed out here many times, both the original Bat and Arrow's suspended coaster prototype had the unbanked track. It was only after 1981 that Arrow started banking its suspended coaster track, presumably due to lessons learned at Kings Island. All that to say, I think the existence of the suspended coaster as a concept is inextricably tied to the build and failure of The Bat. The Bat or a ride like it, warts and all, was always where that concept was going to end up, unless someone at Arrow was going to build and continuously operate a full-sized prototype for years and track how the thing aged (which seems unlikely.)

Let's pretend for a minute that Arrow designed an unbanked track that could handle what the trains were doing. I wish I could remember who it was, but someone (possibly Jeff Gramke?) said at Coasterstock 2015 that the 6 dampeners that exist at the rear of each suspended coaster car were added on the fly while trying to troubleshoot The Bat. They eventually became standard on Arrow's suspended coaster cars. Those dampeners serve to... well, dampen the swinging of the cars so they go back to their "resting" position under the track more quickly. The more those dampeners have to move, the more quickly they wear out. On the post-1981 suspended coasters with banked track, those dampeners barely move, apart from moments like the swing up into the brakes on the 1993 Bat. On the original Bat, the wild swinging of the cars made them move like crazy. If the track could take the forces, I think the next issue would be parks not wanting to have to replace the dampeners. In other words, I think banking the track was always a likely future for suspended coasters, and the one(s) that had unbanked track probably wouldn't have had as long of a life as the later ones. I don't think The Bat would have been around for, say, 30 years in this scenario.

Let's pretend that the track and the dampeners both aren't issues, somehow. Arrow's prototype contained a corkscrew. I've never heard officially why that never worked out, but many have speculated that it might be hard to guarantee consistent and safe navigation across all temperatures and weather. (The train takes the corkscrew too slowly because it's cold or windy? The car/cars presumably might fall to one side or another, which might not be comfortable and/or safe for the riders.) Eleven years after The Bat, B&M made their first inverted coaster. It's a similar concept (you hang below the track) but they can do inversions, which is a big selling point. Sure, as coaster people, we know that inverts and suspended coasters are of course very different rides, but that's not a nuance a lot of parkgoers are concerned with. Flashiness is the name of the game and always has been with coasters.

All that to say: Had the original Bat had a track that worked and the dampeners somehow weren't a deterrent, I think it wouldn't have made a massive change to KI's future or the industry's future. Perhaps Arrow would have sold more suspended coasters elsewhere in the 1980's if their first big showing of the model hadn't flopped. And if we already had a functioning suspended coaster in 1992, perhaps we would have gotten a B&M invert when all the "cool kids" were getting them instead of 20 years after the fact like we did. At most, maybe Arrow would have beaten B&M to the punch on inverts and Banshee would have been an Arrow invert located where the current Bat is. I think suspended coasters are a neat, unique glimpse into a pre-CAD bit of coaster history, and we are unlikely to ever see anything quite like them again--Vekoma has/had their own version, yes, but they're very different layouts compared to Arrow's and haven't been sold in several years. But that's just my opinion!

Edited March 1, 2023 by TombRaiderFTW
Apparently the forum software doesn't like a bracket, the letter s, and a closing bracket.

[silver2005]

There is footage somewhere that shows full size test cars at the Utah plant going through a corkscrew and it'll give you whiplash watching it fling the swinging cars over the top.

[TombRaiderFTW]

9 minutes ago, silver2005 said:

There is footage somewhere that shows full size test cars at the Utah plant going through a corkscrew and it'll give you whiplash watching it fling the swinging cars over the top.

I don't think I've ever seen a full-size suspended coaster do a corkscrew, but there is a miniature version in this video:

 

[robintodd]

ElToroRyan just did a great video on his youtube channel about Big Bad Wolf that shed's light on the original Bat's issues.

 

[johnjniehaus]

If the original Bat (1981) had actually worked and did not have all the design flaws and maintenance issues that it did, or if they had chose to totally re-track the ride with banked turns around 1984 this would have impacted the park history in a small way. First, Vortex would have never been built because The Bat would have been corrected (or worked properly from the beginning in that scenario). Second, Top Gun/Flight Deck/The Bat (1993) would have never been built because KI would have already had an Arrow Suspended Coaster. Perhaps by 1993, they would have been ready to add an Arrow looper perhaps in the area occupied by the former safari monorails. Who knows? (This is all speculation of course).

I'm not exactly sure what the lifespan of an Arrow suspended coaster is seeing as there is controversy surrounding wether Big Bad Wolf was indeed at the end of it's service life or not when BGW decided to remove it. XLR-8 at Astro World closed with the park and presumably didn't reach the end of it's service life. I'm not exactly sure when/why Eagles Fortress was removed but it wasn't that old of a coaster either. Iron Dragon is apparently still good at CP and they are even taking track and supports out for whatever construction they are doing on dragster unless CP is actually making a substantial investment in Iron Dragon and replacing track and supports (which I highly doubt. Regardless, my point is that ID must not be totally worn out quite yet or they would probably not hesitate to remove it for expansion sake. It also is a slower coaster and perhaps doesn't put as much force/stress on it's structure or track explaining why it's still operating. (It opened the same year as Vortex in 1987). As far as I know there's been no talk of any of the other Arrow Suspended Coasters being removed (Ninja at Magic Mountain, Vampire at Chessington World of Adventure, and Vortex at Canada's Wonderland).  

To sum up, I personally think that even if the original Bat had worked properly from the beginning/or had been re-tracked in 1984 that by now it would have been scrapped. The ride would have been 40 years old in 2021 and while a possible re-track in 1984 would have given it a few more years of life, that still means it would be nearing it's 40th season in 2024. I just don't see how it could have lasted that long and without an ACE Landmark Status (which it probably would have gained actually) there's a very slim chance KI would have kept it around for 40 years. If it had gained a Coaster Landmark Status as the first suspended coaster (given ACE or KI invested a substantial amount of $ in refurbishments), history could have been very different. Perhaps the ride would still be operating at the far end of Coney Mall today! 

[Shaggy]

I personally think that, no matter the design flaws, The Bat would have been a short-lived coaster.  Over the 10 years that followed it's installation, coaster technology evolved extremely rapidly.  By 1992, the first invert was operating.  

Obviously, The Bat is my personal obsession... however I also recognize its challenges outside of the engineering issues.  Here's a few things that often get overlooked with the coaster.

- It was LOUD.  Specifically the lift.  you could hear it all the way in the parking lot.  It was that familiar Arrow tubular clunking (like Vortex had) - but much louder.

- It was jerky.  It was not a smooth ride.  Specifically, it caused neck/ear boxing like other Arrows.  The horse collars were replaced to try and alleviate some of this.

- It wasn't that fast.  Because the swinging was a novelty, that made up for the fact that it only ran at a top speed of around 35 m.p.h.  To put it in context - That's the speed of Woodstock's Express.

If I had to guess, I think The Bat would have rounded out the '80's then bit the dust for something bigger - much like how Screamin' Demon left after an 11 year run.  I think Vortex would have still happened (possibly in some other location or form)  because Arrow multi-loopers were the definitive trend in the late 1980's.  It also stands to reason that instead of Top Gun, KI might have very well become home to an invert.  If so, it could have potentially undercut Raptor at CP by a year or two - and helped the KI avoid the B&M exclusivity agreement that hindered the park for years.

IMO Backwards Racer may not have happened had The Bat succeeded.  I know the recaR origin story is oft debated - but I was always told it was a knee-jerk reaction to The Bat's extensive downtime (to help promote the park for Memorial Day in '82.)  However, because of recaR's success (and to offset the excruciatingly embarrassing PR issues they faced with The Bat)  it was held over...  I always recall visiting KI in '82, and the park was promoting the HECK out of Racer now running backwards, it was a marketing campaign the park pushed hard in '82 & '83.  By '84, King Cobra was their new PR talking point - and by the end of the season The Bat was no more...  they had newer, bigger things to market.

[Gordon Bombay]

43 minutes ago, Shaggy said:

avoid the B&M exclusivity agreement that hindered the park for years.

I’ve always heard about this, @Shaggy, but didn’t know it was a real thing. How was CP able to lord this over KI, but not Six Flags Ohio/Geauga Lake?

[Shaggy]

25 minutes ago, Gordon Bombay said:

I’ve always heard about this, @Shaggy, but didn’t know it was a real thing. How was CP able to lord this over KI, but not Six Flags Ohio/Geauga Lake?

Definitely real.  Dave Focke confirmed it directly to me.  SFO only got one B&M - and it was a floorless - at a time when CP was heavily involved with Intamin.  Simultaneously,  KI was eyeballs deep in SOB and Paramount was working heavily with Vekoma.  Perhaps CP passed on the floorless concept at the time, opening the door for SF to swoop in.

[Gordon Bombay]

Thanks, @Shaggy! Always love your insights into KI history. So interesting to hear about aspects like this. 

[rlentless]

The Bat lore lives on.  Always heard the story from "someone" who knew "someone" that rode The Bat and then the front car fell off.  That's why it was always closed. 

[KIghostguy]

19 minutes ago, rlentless said:

Always heard the story from "someone" who knew "someone" that rode The Bat and then the front car fell off.  That's why it was always closed. 

To be fair, that did actually happen one time. Something was caught in the chain dogs/anti-rollbacks of the second lift, which caused the first two cars of the train to disengage from the lift and drop the few inches onto the mesh that had been installed below.

[robintodd]

1 hour ago, rlentless said:

The Bat lore lives on.  Always heard the story from "someone" who knew "someone" that rode The Bat and then the front car fell off.  That's why it was always closed. 

Interestingly enough that also happened to another suspended arrow.  ElToroRyan mentions it in his video.  No one was on the ride and I think it was when they were transfering it.  The car fell about 10-15 feet and wan't damanged except for the bottom "sabilizer" wheel.

[rlentless]

I didn't mean to make light of a situation like that, I really thought it was just kids talking.  Had to be very frightening to those riders and I hope nobody was hurt.

[johnjniehaus]

5 hours ago, KIghostguy said:

To be fair, that did actually happen one time. Something was caught in the chain dogs/anti-rollbacks of the second lift, which caused the first two cars of the train to disengage from the lift and drop the few inches onto the mesh that had been installed below.

That would have been some pretty good mesh! I mean coaster train cars are pretty heavy. They made stuff to last back then. 

Also I know it's been suggested that The Bat (1981) would have been short lived and while it's possible, I just don't see it. Adventure Express top speed is 35mph and it's obviously has been and is going to be around for a long time. Iron Dragon is not a super fast suspended coaster either. As for roughness, there are plenty of headbanging arrows and vekomas still running so unless there were fractured skull injuries, I don't see where headbanging/roughness would guarantee it's removal. Also the loudness of the lift hill... can't speak for that one but I know Firehawk had a lift that was pretty darn loud though I don't think that was one of the reasons it was removed. 

[MDMC01]

1 hour ago, johnjniehaus said:

Also the loudness of the lift hill... can't speak for that one but I know Firehawk had a lift that was pretty darn loud though I don't think that was one of the reasons it was removed. 

see also Son of Beast and Steel Vengeance...

[johnjniehaus]

58 minutes ago, MDMC01 said:

see also Son of Beast and Steel Vengeance...

Man I forgot how loud Steel Vengeance lift is! Actually a few RMC have very loud lift hills. I also remember Phantoms Revenge at Kennywood being loud enough to hear from the parking lot. 

[Shaggy]

16 hours ago, johnjniehaus said:

That would have been some pretty good mesh! I mean coaster train cars are pretty heavy. They made stuff to last back then. 

Also I know it's been suggested that The Bat (1981) would have been short lived and while it's possible, I just don't see it. Adventure Express top speed is 35mph and it's obviously has been and is going to be around for a long time. Iron Dragon is not a super fast suspended coaster either. As for roughness, there are plenty of headbanging arrows and vekomas still running so unless there were fractured skull injuries, I don't see where headbanging/roughness would guarantee it's removal. Also the loudness of the lift hill... can't speak for that one but I know Firehawk had a lift that was pretty darn loud though I don't think that was one of the reasons it was removed. 

I wasn't suggesting it would be removed for those things.  I was just pointing out "isms" people (that were not around when The Bat was at KI) may not have known about the ride. 

What I was saying was, the novelty probably would have worn out and wouldn't have had much marketability as newer, faster and more intense coasters were built.  I referenced Screamin' Demon as an example.  By the time Vortex was built, interest in (and marketability of) that ride had waned - and the park pulled the plug on it in favor of a new attraction on the same plot of land.

I wish, probably more than most, The Bat had been a rousing success.  But I also think that had it been a reliable attraction, people might not talk about it or reflect on it as much 42 years later.  IMO there's a vested interest in the ride because of its mystique.  That mystique (along with the various tall-tales about it) is what perpetuates a lot of the conversation about it to this day.

[disco2000]

18 hours ago, johnjniehaus said:

That would have been some pretty good mesh! I mean coaster train cars are pretty heavy. They made stuff to last back then. 

Also I know it's been suggested that The Bat (1981) would have been short lived and while it's possible, I just don't see it. Adventure Express top speed is 35mph and it's obviously has been and is going to be around for a long time. Iron Dragon is not a super fast suspended coaster either. As for roughness, there are plenty of headbanging arrows and vekomas still running so unless there were fractured skull injuries, I don't see where headbanging/roughness would guarantee it's removal. Also the loudness of the lift hill... can't speak for that one but I know Firehawk had a lift that was pretty darn loud though I don't think that was one of the reasons it was removed. 

Forces on the track of a suspended coaster are usually higher than on a traditional coaster.  So in your example of The Bat and Adventure Express being about the same speed, the point being made is that the suspended coaster track is always in tension with the train cars pulling the track away from the supports, whereas Adventure Express track is in compression pushing the track into the supports.  Now of course the design accommodates those forces, but it is still in issue that needs to be considered.  Constantly trying to pull something apart versus pushing it together usually results in an object failing first by trying to pull it apart than by squeezing it together.

[johnjniehaus]

On 3/3/2023 at 11:23 AM, Shaggy said:

I wasn't suggesting it would be removed for those things.  I was just pointing out "isms" people (that were not around when The Bat was at KI) may not have known about the ride. 

What I was saying was, the novelty probably would have worn out and wouldn't have had much marketability as newer, faster and more intense coasters were built.  I referenced Screamin' Demon as an example.  By the time Vortex was built, interest in (and marketability of) that ride had waned - and the park pulled the plug on it in favor of a new attraction on the same plot of land.

I wish, probably more than most, The Bat had been a rousing success.  But I also think that had it been a reliable attraction, people might not talk about it or reflect on it as much 42 years later.  IMO there's a vested interest in the ride because of its mystique.  That mystique (along with the various tall-tales about it) is what perpetuates a lot of the conversation about it to this day.

Sorry I misunderstood the point you were trying to make. All of that information was very interesting! 

I definitely agree with your statement that if it has been a success there would have not been so much mystery/obsession over it because many more people would have got to ride it and it would just be one of the former coasters at this point much like Kings Cobra or Screemin Demon. It would still have had the first suspended coaster title going for it, but King Cobra had first standup on American soil going for it and few people ever talk about that one anymore. 

 

On 3/3/2023 at 2:50 PM, disco2000 said:

Forces on the track of a suspended coaster are usually higher than on a traditional coaster.  So in your example of The Bat and Adventure Express being about the same speed, the point being made is that the suspended coaster track is always in tension with the train cars pulling the track away from the supports, whereas Adventure Express track is in compression pushing the track into the supports.  Now of course the design accommodates those forces, but it is still in issue that needs to be considered.  Constantly trying to pull something apart versus pushing it together usually results in an object failing first by trying to pull it apart than by squeezing it together.

This is also a valid point. Does anyone know how long an Arrow suspended coaster can actually last seeing as numerous ones were removed perhaps prematurely? (XLR-8 closed with Astro World, Bat (1984) for other reasons, and Big Bad Wolf has controversy that perhaps it actually could have gone a few more seasons, don't have any info on why Eagles Fortress was closed) however I don't think any of the 4 defunct ones operated over 30 years. I believe all the operating ones left are now 30+ years old. I'm just curious, does anyone actually have any information on approximately how long they last? (obviously certain ones have the potential to last longer or shorter periods of time because of speeds, track stress, etc)

[dropdasher]

2 hours ago, johnjniehaus said:

This is also a valid point. Does anyone know how long an Arrow suspended coaster can actually last seeing as numerous ones were removed perhaps prematurely? (XLR-8 closed with Astro World, Bat (1984) for other reasons, and Big Bad Wolf has controversy that perhaps it actually could have gone a few more seasons, don't have any info on why Eagles Fortress was closed) however I don't think any of the 4 defunct ones operated over 30 years. I believe all the operating ones left are now 30+ years old. I'm just curious, does anyone actually have any information on approximately how long they last? (obviously certain ones have the potential to last longer or shorter periods of time because of speeds, track stress, etc)

From someone studying in engineering I don’t really like the “service life” debate. There are so many factors as to how long a coaster can last. Corkscrew is nearing 50 years, but Orient Express barely hit 20. Viper is still going, but Shockwave only lasted about a decade and a half. I think if a park wants to keep a coaster going, they will. Look at Vampire and Chessington WOA. It was having problems, but they change the trains. Steel is a pretty strong material, so a well-designed coaster should be able to last forever (figuratively) given the right maintenance. Look at Matterhorn. It’s the oldest tubular steel coaster yet it is still up and kicking. Only 2 B&Ms have closed and it was because of expansion and not overuse. If I had to put a time, given the parks that still have suspended coasters, I think 35-40 years is their “service life” because big Cedar Fair parks and Magic Mountain take pride in their coasters. Given Bat’s problems, I think it would’ve closed right around the time Cedar Fair took over. Potentially Firehawk finds a new home in Vortex’s plot in a head cannon?

[rlentless]

King Cobra was a big hit when it first came out.  But since it lasted several years and you got to ride every year over that time, the novelty wore out.  Where with the The Bat you almost feel like one of the lucky ones to have ridden it just once.  And survived!!  The wild swinging was fun and just something totally different being suspended.

If I remember right they blamed inferior steel for dismantling King Cobra.  Or maybe they just wanted room for Action Zone.  I know there's a whole thread somewhere about why KC got removed.  I missed the old theming of that area but loved the new rides they put in.

[disco2000]

50 minutes ago, dropdasher said:

From someone studying in engineering I don’t really like the “service life” debate. There are so many factors as to how long a coaster can last. Corkscrew is nearing 50 years, but Orient Express barely hit 20. Viper is still going, but Shockwave only lasted about a decade and a half. I think if a park wants to keep a coaster going, they will. Look at Vampire and Chessington WOA. It was having problems, but they change the trains. Steel is a pretty strong material, so a well-designed coaster should be able to last forever (figuratively) given the right maintenance. Look at Matterhorn. It’s the oldest tubular steel coaster yet it is still up and kicking. Only 2 B&Ms have closed and it was because of expansion and not overuse. If I had to put a time, given the parks that still have suspended coasters, I think 35-40 years is their “service life” because big Cedar Fair parks and Magic Mountain take pride in their coasters. Given Bat’s problems, I think it would’ve closed right around the time Cedar Fair took over. Potentially Firehawk finds a new home in Vortex’s plot in a head cannon?

Associated with the right maintenance is having the budget to perform that maintenance, and that is usually higher for a steel coaster than a wooden coaster.

Sure steel is a strong material, but it doesn't last forever and is only good for so many cycles.

There is a big part you are missing, and that is service life and repair costs of steel coasters compared to wooden coasters, and that is why we see things like Vortex, Firehawk, and King Cobra disappear, and eventually our other steel coasters will leave as well for the same reasons.

A wood coaster can last longer because it is easy for the parks to buy lumber in bulk and the type of laborer needed and access to the piece that needs replaced is easier than for a steel coaster.

Our wooden coasters are walked daily and if you visit enough, there are times you can see a piece of wood has been replaced mid-season as a result of these daily inspections.  And then sometimes we get off-season sections replaced as we have seen recently.  Due to the design of the wooden coasters (walking paths the entire length) and the type of laborer needed for wood (compared to a welder), it is cheaper to maintain wooden coaster than a steel coaster.

While steel is stronger than wood, it is subject to higher loads, fatigue and as such has a defined service life.  Sometimes the service life is shorter than expected, and sometimes it is longer.  So many factors come into play.  Maybe it got bad steel; or the stress loads were higher than anticipated; or the temperature of the location of the ride impacted the steel more while it was being operated.  Steel can only handle so many cycles before it starts to fatigue and it typically deforms and weakens at the welds.  Steel coasters are subject to annual non-destructive testing inspections for the integrity of the welds. Other testing such as holiday testing, ultrasound, and several other methods are used to detect imperfections that are not visible to the naked eye.  And at times portion of the track is removed in the off-season for destructive testing.  At some point these inspections provide how much longer the ride is able to operate until wide-scale fatigue failure occurs.  Sometimes is matches up with the intended design life or service life, and sometimes it doesn't.

Sometimes prototypes are overly designed (factor of safety) and can last a lot longer, and other times it is determined that it was under designed or didn't meet the factor of safety the manufacturer was looking for and results in expensive modifications during its first year of operation and/or a service life not as long as other coasters.  I think the original The Bat fell in this latter category and would have been gone much earlier and may have been gone before or during Paramount.  I don't think the coaster as built/with modifications would have made it to the Cedar Fair era.

Part of the maintenance of steel coasters is repairing any welds that are beginning to fatigue. This is extremely expensive. The ride manufacturers require certain methods, type of welds, materials, etc. to be used on their rides.  Plus, unlike wooden coasters with a walking track the entire length, steel coasters usually only have that on the lift hill, MCBR, and final brake run.  So now you need cranes or other equipment to hoist the laborer and material in place.  With a wood coaster, you can carry a couple of pieces of lumber with you to the location. The specialty labor required for a steel coaster weld repair, along with the parts cost is orders of magnitude greater than for a wooden coaster.

You may be asking well why don't parks re-track and replace components yearly on their steel coasters like they do for wooden coasters? Again, the answer is cost.  Depending on the nature of the repair, it could cost more to repair than a new coaster.  Same thing with automobiles - sometimes the cost to repair a vehicle after a crash is more expensive than just buying a new car.  Or restaurants.  Many times it is cheaper to demolish and rebuild on site than it would be to remodel and get it up to current code.

The initial build and fabrication of the steel coaster is always cheaper in the factory and onsite in an open field than 30-something years later.  Access is more difficult, more levels of approvals are needed.  More specialized laborers are needed.  The cost of the materials are more expensive, etc.

Further, by the time the ride has reached its original design life, many of these rides will have lost enough ridership as they have aged that the ride's popularity would not justify replacing all the steel components needing replacement, especially if it would be cheaper to simply build a new coaster. 

Does that mean that no steel coaster is ever rehabbed and track replaced - no - it has happened and will continue to happen on a case-by-case basis.

[dropdasher]

3 hours ago, disco2000 said:

Associated with the right maintenance is having the budget to perform that maintenance, and that is usually higher for a steel coaster than a wooden coaster.

Sure steel is a strong material, but it doesn't last forever and is only good for so many cycles.

There is a big part you are missing, and that is service life and repair costs of steel coasters compared to wooden coasters, and that is why we see things like Vortex, Firehawk, and King Cobra disappear, and eventually our other steel coasters will leave as well for the same reasons.

A wood coaster can last longer because it is easy for the parks to buy lumber in bulk and the type of laborer needed and access to the piece that needs replaced is easier than for a steel coaster.

Our wooden coasters are walked daily and if you visit enough, there are times you can see a piece of wood has been replaced mid-season as a result of these daily inspections.  And then sometimes we get off-season sections replaced as we have seen recently.  Due to the design of the wooden coasters (walking paths the entire length) and the type of laborer needed for wood (compared to a welder), it is cheaper to maintain wooden coaster than a steel coaster.

While steel is stronger than wood, it is subject to higher loads, fatigue and as such has a defined service life.  Sometimes the service life is shorter than expected, and sometimes it is longer.  So many factors come into play.  Maybe it got bad steel; or the stress loads were higher than anticipated; or the temperature of the location of the ride impacted the steel more while it was being operated.  Steel can only handle so many cycles before it starts to fatigue and it typically deforms and weakens at the welds.  Steel coasters are subject to annual non-destructive testing inspections for the integrity of the welds. Other testing such as holiday testing, ultrasound, and several other methods are used to detect imperfections that are not visible to the naked eye.  And at times portion of the track is removed in the off-season for destructive testing.  At some point these inspections provide how much longer the ride is able to operate until wide-scale fatigue failure occurs.  Sometimes is matches up with the intended design life or service life, and sometimes it doesn't.

Sometimes prototypes are overly designed (factor of safety) and can last a lot longer, and other times it is determined that it was under designed or didn't meet the factor of safety the manufacturer was looking for and results in expensive modifications during its first year of operation and/or a service life not as long as other coasters.  I think the original The Bat fell in this latter category and would have been gone much earlier and may have been gone before or during Paramount.  I don't think the coaster as built/with modifications would have made it to the Cedar Fair era.

Part of the maintenance of steel coasters is repairing any welds that are beginning to fatigue. This is extremely expensive. The ride manufacturers require certain methods, type of welds, materials, etc. to be used on their rides.  Plus, unlike wooden coasters with a walking track the entire length, steel coasters usually only have that on the lift hill, MCBR, and final brake run.  So now you need cranes or other equipment to hoist the laborer and material in place.  With a wood coaster, you can carry a couple of pieces of lumber with you to the location. The specialty labor required for a steel coaster weld repair, along with the parts cost is orders of magnitude greater than for a wooden coaster.

You may be asking well why don't parks re-track and replace components yearly on their steel coasters like they do for wooden coasters? Again, the answer is cost.  Depending on the nature of the repair, it could cost more to repair than a new coaster.  Same thing with automobiles - sometimes the cost to repair a vehicle after a crash is more expensive than just buying a new car.  Or restaurants.  Many times it is cheaper to demolish and rebuild on site than it would be to remodel and get it up to current code.

The initial build and fabrication of the steel coaster is always cheaper in the factory and onsite in an open field than 30-something years later.  Access is more difficult, more levels of approvals are needed.  More specialized laborers are needed.  The cost of the materials are more expensive, etc.

Further, by the time the ride has reached its original design life, many of these rides will have lost enough ridership as they have aged that the ride's popularity would not justify replacing all the steel components needing replacement, especially if it would be cheaper to simply build a new coaster. 

Does that mean that no steel coaster is ever rehabbed and track replaced - no - it has happened and will continue to happen on a case-by-case basis.

I agree with you. I just don’t like when people say a model in general has a service life because there’s too many factors to take into consideration outside of the model. Like you said, bad steel can doom a coaster from the beginning or a multitude of other things

[jbeast]

The mystique of the original Bat makes me happy. As a silly kid, somehow, I managed to get a lot of rides on it. Guess I hung out by it all the time. I was just in awe of it. As an artist and graphic designer, I came up with a similar idea of an unrealistic coaster that traveled below the track one day on vacation with my grandparents on their motorhome table on our way out west. Then wow, it was a reality! Like Shaggy said before, it was just fun to watch...I was in awe. Different time and place for sure. I had seen nothing like it before...same way I thought about King Cobra when it was announced. KI had a certain mystic to it getting those rides along with The Beast.

The Bat was a slower ride, but the extreme swinging made it a blast to ride even though that was its downfall.  I still remember the descent on the 2nd lift hill swinging through the trees. Growing up with the park, since it's very early days, I can still envision both of those rides when I walk through the park. Geez, I don't feel that old...and don't even get me started on how much I miss my Flying Eagles...ha!

[rlentless]

2 hours ago, jbeast said:

The mystique of the original Bat makes me happy. As a silly kid, somehow, I managed to get a lot of rides on it. Guess I hung out by it all the time. I was just in awe of it. As an artist and graphic designer, I came up with a similar idea of an unrealistic coaster that traveled below the track one day on vacation with my grandparents on their motorhome table on our way out west. Then wow, it was a reality! Like Shaggy said before, it was just fun to watch...I was in awe. Different time and place for sure. I had seen nothing like it before...same way I thought about King Cobra when it was announced. KI had a certain mystic to it getting those rides along with The Beast.

The Bat was a slower ride, but the extreme swinging made it a blast to ride even though that was its downfall.  I still remember the descent on the 2nd lift hill swinging through the trees. Growing up with the park, since it's very early days, I can still envision both of those rides when I walk through the park. Geez, I don't feel that old...and don't even get me started on how much I miss my Flying Eagles...ha!

Well I am jealous you got so many rides.  Back then I couldn't drive yet and didn't have season passes.  So my only opportunities was with youth group or family day outings.  I got to ride it once and then it shutdown that day.  All other times the ride was down the whole day.

Actually I do not remember when season passes started.  I started getting mine in the mid-90's after getting married.

[jbeast]

I was lucky with a grandma that realized how important trips to KI were. So, after I moved to Texas from Cincinnati when I was a kid, I'd come up every summer to spend it with my grandparents here in Cincy. She'd get me a pass every summer and just drop me off to have fun all day and pick me up after the park closed. I was a very responsible young teenager...Ha!

KI was and still is my zen place...I would dream and could not wait till summer to get back up here and visit my favorite place in the world as was my grandparent's house.  It was a world away from boring west Texas. 

So, yep, I feel very fortunate to have had the chance to ride The Bat, Beast when it opened, King Cobra and Demon. And very fortunate to live in Northern KY to visit my favorite place as often as I want now.

 

[DJSkyFoxx]

On 3/6/2023 at 11:01 AM, jbeast said:

I was lucky with a grandma that realized how important trips to KI were. So, after I moved to Texas from Cincinnati when I was a kid, I'd come up every summer to spend it with my grandparents here in Cincy. She'd get me a pass every summer and just drop me off to have fun all day and pick me up after the park closed. I was a very responsible young teenager...Ha!

KI was and still is my zen place...I would dream and could not wait till summer to get back up here and visit my favorite place in the world as was my grandparent's house.  It was a world away from boring west Texas. 

So, yep, I feel very fortunate to have had the chance to ride The Bat, Beast when it opened, King Cobra and Demon. And very fortunate to live in Northern KY to visit my favorite place as often as I want now.

 

I realize that SoB had a slightly longer service life than that of the original Bat, but I share your sentiments in regards to being able to say I was able to experience an "urban legend" of sorts roller coaster with that being SoB. 

It's cool to hear stories from those that got to experience the original Bat since there are so few folks out there in the general populous who can say they did. 

[cdubbs727]

It always fascinates me what now-defunct rides from KI stick in my memory and which I have no recollection of. 

We started going to the park every year in 1982, when I was 3. So, theoretically, I would have gone for several years when Screamin' Demon and The Bat were there. I know we walked around the park, because King Cobra fascinated me as a kid. But I have no memory of seeing either coaster in action. I didn't know what The Bat was until years after Vortex opened; I think I learned about it when I was in the lobby of International Restaurant, where they had several news clippings from throughout the years on the wall. 

I'm curious about what would have happened if The Bat would've been successful -- I agree with others that the novelty would have been intriguing for a bit, but I don't see it having much longevity (no one went to Cedar Point for Iron Dragon for long). How much of the park's late-80s, early-90s success can be attributed to Vortex? That ride certainly wouldn't have been in its picturesque location, and it might not have been built at all (IIRC, it was built for basically free as a favor by Arrow after The Bat was closed). They would likely have gotten some sort of Arrow looper, but I don't know it would have been as special. Without that, do you still have a thrill-seeking audience coming in?