Fury 325 Support Failure

[Kenban]

On 7/4/2023 at 11:48 PM, SonofBaconator said:

What I said was more or less in response to people on Reddit talking about how they’ve “black listed” Intamin and RMC. I used “” because I don’t think they’ve ever officially said “we’re not going to work with these companies down the road.” I don’t think they’ll ever cut ties with a company for good because leadership can change on either end. 

As far as I can tell there is no official black list but the relationship between Cedar Fair and Intamin is not really improving.  Cedar Fair moved away from Intamin for a lot of reasons and it was more than just a few problematic rides that people keep bringing up.  The poor service and replacement part availability continues to be a problem and continues to create friction between the companies.

Intamin likes custom proprietary parts and it has caused a lot of downtime.  Here is a video from a ride mechanic that discusses a few manufacturers, and discusses how they are to work with.  He talks about B&M at 1:50 and Intamin at 8:12.

If you have a chance go do Winter Chill Out and talk with the mechanics at Cedar Point.  I have discussed similar issues with them before.  It’s just really hard to get parts from Intamin.  When the unexpected happens you’re stuck with months of downtime, and in the worst cases it can take more than a year to get the items.

Xcelerator at Knott’s closed in March of 2022, they just announced last week the parts to fix it arrived from Intamin, and expect it to open later this summer, it’s already been closed 16 months.  This is not the first time Xcelerator has had extended downtime due to part availability.  Falcons Fury at BGT, closed for around a year with a sign out front that said they were waiting for parts from the manufacturer, it just reopened maybe two months ago.  Kings Island had this happen with the Drop Tower, it went down last year, and the park was still waiting for replacement parts at the start of this season.

Intamin needs to figure out how to provide support in a reasonable period of time, even if the ride is 20 years old, discontinued, low volume, or maybe a prototype.  Changing how they design rides and placing a focus on using quality off the shelf components and reusing as much as possible between models so they can stock items for faster service would be a good start.

B&M earned its reputation for quality, reliability, and service though a lot of hard work.  I cannot imagine they will not provide superior service in this instance.

[SonofBaconator]

9 hours ago, Kenban said:

As far as I can tell there is no official black list but the relationship between Cedar Fair and Intamin is not really improving.  Cedar Fair moved away from Intamin for a lot of reasons and it was more than just a few problematic rides that people keep bringing up.  The poor service and replacement part availability continues to be a problem and continues to create friction between the companies.

Intamin likes custom proprietary parts and it has caused a lot of downtime.  Here is a video from a ride mechanic that discusses a few manufacturers, and discusses how they are to work with.  He talks about B&M at 1:50 and Intamin at 8:12.

If you have a chance go do Winter Chill Out and talk with the mechanics at Cedar Point.  I have discussed similar issues with them before.  It’s just really hard to get parts from Intamin.  When the unexpected happens you’re stuck with months of downtime, and in the worst cases it can take more than a year to get the items.

Xcelerator at Knott’s closed in March of 2022, they just announced last week the parts to fix it arrived from Intamin, and expect it to open later this summer, it’s already been closed 16 months.  This is not the first time Xcelerator has had extended downtime due to part availability.  Falcons Fury at BGT, closed for around a year with a sign out front that said they were waiting for parts from the manufacturer, it just reopened maybe two months ago.  Kings Island had this happen with the Drop Tower, it went down last year, and the park was still waiting for replacement parts at the start of this season.

Intamin needs to figure out how to provide support in a reasonable period of time, even if the ride is 20 years old, discontinued, low volume, or maybe a prototype.  Changing how they design rides and placing a focus on using quality off the shelf components and reusing as much as possible between models so they can stock items for faster service would be a good start.

B&M earned its reputation for quality, reliability, and service though a lot of hard work.  I cannot imagine they will not provide superior service in this instance.

I never understood why you would want to manufacture rides if you can’t supply the parts to them down the road-that’s only gonna make you look bad in the long term. It’s not like parks can go to Roller Coaster AutoZone and pick up what they need.

I remember going to a a panel when I was an intern at Cedar Point in 2018 and somebody had brought up in Intamin. Their head of maintenance said that the cost of operating their Intamin roller coasters had gone up significantly over the last decade. I have no recordings of this panel, so I have no source to back this statement up aside from myself who was in attendance so take the information how you see fit.

I’m sure removing Wicked Twister saved them some future expenses when it comes to purchasing parts and providing maintenance. I’d also imagine the removal of TTD’s original propulsion system has saved them some cheddar as well.

[disco2000]

32 minutes ago, SonofBaconator said:

 

I’m sure removing Wicked Twister saved them some future expenses when it comes to purchasing parts and providing maintenance. I’d also imagine the removal of TTD’s original propulsion system has saved them some cheddar as well.

The mouse parks save cheddar, CF parks save peanuts 

[Tr0y]

8 minutes ago, disco2000 said:

The mouse parks save cheddar, CF parks save peanuts 

That is so true when it comes to Disney. Last year I purchased a 5 day ticket package for 5 days at Disney World. Hurricane Ian decided to make a turn towards Florida. So Disney decided to close the park for 2 days. I wasn’t going to be able to use my 5 tickets because of it so I went to get a refund on two of the tickets. Well, the Mouse had other plans. A 5 day ticket package makes per ticket cheaper than a 3 day package and since the Mouse already spent my money I was only refunded like $50 because according to the Mouse refunding two of the days turned my 5 day package into a 3 day one. Therefor increasing the price of each ticket… Happiest place on earth I tell ya.

[Browntggrr]

With Fury being in it's 9th year of operation, I'm leaning more toward a metal fatigue issue than design issue- mind you I have zero engineering design experience but do deal with metals.  Metal fatigue is tricky- kind of like a crack in a dam- it takes a while to show up but once it starts the end is coming quick!

If Fury is "repaired" with a large sleeve-like device welded over the cracked area it's likely fatigue.

If Fury is down until new support shows and new footer is poured- it was a design flaw.

[DJSkyFoxx]

Seems like its been a tough go for Cedar Fair with these high profile rides having some kind of crazy thing happening to them. It will be interesting to see what comes of the investigation with Fury if any of that info ever becomes available to the public. I'm thankful this didn't go as terribly as it could have. 

It feels like from the news articles that are currently available there is a lot of dismissive-ness, but I suppose that's to be expected while investigations are being conducted. 

[Tr0y]

22 minutes ago, DJSkyFoxx said:

Seems like its been a tough go for Cedar Fair with these high profile rides having some kind of crazy thing happening to them. It will be interesting to see what comes of the investigation with Fury if any of that info ever becomes available to the public. I'm thankful this didn't go as terribly as it could have. 

It feels like from the news articles that are currently available there is a lot of dismissive-ness, but I suppose that's to be expected while investigations are being conducted. 

Whats more interesting is that its two different manufactures. Things wear down and if not addressed, stuff breaks. No manufacture is immune to it. But hey maintenance was sure to mark the check box that the track was walked and was visually inspected daily. Can’t prove it otherwise as long as the checked box says it was checked.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the conclusion ends up being “instantaneous overload fracture”. Exactly like TTD.

[SonofBaconator]

What’s really unfortunate is that incidents are happening to these high profile rides. You had an incident with Top Thrill Dragster a few seasons back, now you have this with Fury 325.  It makes you wonder if Cedar Fair will take a break from big installs in the future in favor of smaller attractions under 200ft.

[SonofBaconator]

[disco2000]

So sounds like not a design flaw but rather a material or construction defect, along with generous factors of safety/redundancy that allowed a break like this to happen yet still keep guests safe....

[IndyGuy4KI]

That is one quick turn around. I am also impressed we got a statement. Transparency is the best to put people at ease. I wish all CF parks did this.

[Coastercrush]

19 minutes ago, IndyGuy4KI said:

That is one quick turn around. I am also impressed we got a statement. Transparency is the best to put people at ease. I wish all CF parks did this.

What about the transparency of why the ride was running for at least a week with the crack already forming?  What about the gentleman that brought to their attention?  He said the park has never reached out to him lmao.

[disco2000]

There is not definitive proof that crack was there a week.

Go take a picture at distance of any coaster and zoom in and you will see things that look like a crack but is really dirt or shadow or simply digital zoom deformity.

I just took a picture of Banshee and digital zoomed in.  That looks like a crack on Banshee but it isn't...

 

 

Now why they didn't take the guy more seriously with video proof of a clear break is another issue.  Sounds like a "not my department" mentality of the employee.

 

[Buckeye Brad]

I saw a news interview with Mr. Wagner where he said the the first employee he told (nearest) was an “elderly gentleman “ parking lot attendant  They were presumably within line of sight of the crack, and this employee told Mr. Wagner that he could not see it. Seems unreasonable after watching the zoomed in video a dozen times, but it might be quite reasonable depending on this employee’s eyesight, cleanliness of his glasses, lighting at that moment, etc.

Mr. Wagner then proceeded to guest relations, where the 4th employee he talked to (unclear what transpired with the previous ones) asked him to airdrop the video and then walked away to tell someone. Which does indeed sound quite reasonable. 
 

On one hand, I can see how the park employees would respond skeptically at first, as a cracked support is very unlikely .

On the other, Mr. Wagner’s daughter could have been riding Fury at that moment (she stayed the park), so any reaction short of a  immediate E-Stop would seem unacceptable. 

 

 

 

[beastfan11]

[Tr0y]

After reading the statement from the park and if you’re able to read between the lines it pretty much admits with out full blown coming out that their maintenance team missed this crack on the daily inspections. The picture that is a week old you can see faint line following up the darker one that is in the same shape as we see when the support is completely broke. Thankfully B&M had factors of safety in the design that saved people on this ride from serious harm or likely death. 

[IndyGuy4KI]

This got me thinking. How many bridges do we drive over every day that are not inspected regularly enough and would be deemed unsafe or condemned if they were? 

We probably don't want to know the answer to that question.

[disco2000]

2 minutes ago, IndyGuy4KI said:

This got me thinking. How many bridges do we drive over every day that are not inspected regularly enough and would be deemed unsafe or condemned if they were? 

We probably don't want to know the answer to that question.

Yeah, you don't want to know that over 46,000 bridges are deemed poor and structurally deficient....

[WoodVengeance]

That's the main reason why I avoid driving on a "certain bridge" that connects Kentucky and Ohio. A certain bridge that rhymes with the phrase "rent expense"...

[Tyler2012]

6 hours ago, Coastercrush said:

What about the transparency of why the ride was running for at least a week with the crack already forming?  What about the gentleman that brought to their attention?  He said the park has never reached out to him lmao.

Why would the park reach out to him? 

[DoomPlague]

The park should be grateful that someone caught something that they didn't but the way the guy went to the media and added to the sensationalism would make me not want to deal with him. He acted like Guest Services should be running around in a panic and that the train was about to fly off the track and kill everyone.

I doubt any parks plan for when a guest reports something like this.

 

Side note: drone inspections is a good idea but I also wonder if its possible to put sensors the detect movement of the structure over a certain threshold.

[DJSkyFoxx]

9 hours ago, DoomPlague said:

The park should be grateful that someone caught something that they didn't but the way the guy went to the media and added to the sensationalism would make me not want to deal with him. He acted like Guest Services should be running around in a panic and that the train was about to fly off the track and kill everyone.

I doubt any parks plan for when a guest reports something like this.

 

Side note: drone inspections is a good idea but I also wonder if its possible to put sensors the detect movement of the structure over a certain threshold.

I realize that people hate seeing dangerous situations not being responded to in the manner in which they feel they should be. But a mass panic attack isn't going to help anyone. Getting the ride shut down was the obvious right answer, but I really hate seeing the over-blown media coverage make something of this manner out to be some lethal death trap experience. And then the general public makes up a bunch of garbage that never happened and next thing you know everyone is talking about how "somebody died". I know darn well anyone here in the enthusiast community always feels like they're correcting misinformation from those speaking about incidents that never happened while waiting in line with others 

[Buckeye Brad]

14 hours ago, DoomPlague said:

Side note: drone inspections is a good idea but I also wonder if its possible to put sensors the detect movement of the structure over a certain threshold.

Another interesting method is using air pressure.  

I saw a video years ago about the "Skyscraper" ride (usually in tourist areas like Dells, Pigeon Forge, Branson).  The main element of the ride a rotating long, slender steel beam with seats at each end.  Obviously any crack in the beam could be catastrophic.  The video highlighted how they pressurized the steel tubes with air, and the ride system electronically monitored that pressure to detect even the smallest leak instantly. Not practical on large coasters unfortunately, but I thought it was a clever approach. 

[disco2000]

Amazing how supports can just disappear under certain light conditions when digitally zoomed in LOL

 

 

[FUN&ONLY!]

So who is manufacturing Fury 325’s new support if Clermont Steel Fabricators is allegedly not involved in the repair?

[Kenban]

2 hours ago, FUN&ONLY! said:

So who is manufacturing Fury 325’s new support if Clermont Steel Fabricators is allegedly not involved in the repair?

The statement from Clermont was published Wednesday but I suspect it was made on Tuesday.  An employee from B&M did not arrive on site to inspect the damage in person until Wednesday.  The announcement that a replacement support would be manufactured was made on Thursday.

Likely the support was ordered either late Wednesday or on Thursday before the park announcement.  Which would have been after Clermont stated they were not involved.  It was likely true that at the time they were not involved but I suspect they are now.

[disco2000]

Here is a close-up of the weld (just not of Fury) 

[DeltaFlyer]

On 7/2/2023 at 1:57 PM, Orion742 said:

Do you know specifically where they added them?

On Diamondback, there is an additional footing at the base of the first drop connecting two existing footings, and an additional one added near the bottom of the second drop. 

Orion: there is one footing that has been enlarged at the helix, appears to be #C102L (or in that area… hard to see) Another at the lowest point before the helix has been extended outward toward Racer, looks like #C85. Last one I saw extended was #C54, the lowest point exiting the turnaround. Support numbers are taken from: 

[TheBeast54]

13 hours ago, DeltaFlyer said:

On Diamondback, there is an additional footing at the base of the first drop connecting two existing footings, and an additional one added near the bottom of the second drop. 

Orion: there is one footing that has been enlarged at the helix, appears to be #C102L (or in that area… hard to see) Another at the lowest point before the helix has been extended outward toward Racer, looks like #C85. Last one I saw extended was #C54, the lowest point exiting the turnaround. Support numbers are taken from: 

Interesting how they referred to the former Firehawk photo booth/now Orion entrance as an "existing food building". 

[Tr0y]

I’m surprised no other park has taken this incident and made a marketing video of a backstage tour on how their coasters are kept safe with daily checks and stuff. If I was in marketing for a competing park I would be throwing major shade towards Carowinds.