TombRaiderFTW Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 13 minutes ago, disco2000 said: So car manufacturers never tout the safety rankings they get? They never produce videos showing what goes into making their cars safer? That's not an apples to apples comparison. Car accidents typically don't cause people to question the safety of cars as a genre of machine. If a car is unsafe, people will at most not buy that model or make again. The amusement industry does not work the same way (with non-enthusiasts, anyway.) The car industry is not nearly as dependent upon each other the way the amusement industry is. I don't think Tr0y deserves hellfire and brimstone for their post, and I hope I didn't come across that way. There's a lot of ways that Tr0y's kind of response makes sense when compared to how online PR often works nowadays. I just think "throwing shade at Carowinds" (which IS what was original post said) isn't the right approach for the amusement industry, and I decided to explain why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsus Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 5 minutes ago, TombRaiderFTW said: That's not an apples to apples comparison. Car accidents typically don't cause people to question the safety of cars as a genre of machine. If a car is unsafe, people will at most not buy that model or make again. The amusement industry does not work the same way (with non-enthusiasts, anyway.) The car industry is not nearly as dependent upon each other the way the amusement industry is. I don't think Tr0y deserves hellfire and brimstone for their post, and I hope I didn't come across that way. There's a lot of ways that Tr0y's kind of response makes sense when compared to how online PR often works nowadays. I just think "throwing shade at Carowinds" (which IS what was original post said) isn't the right approach for the amusement industry, and I decided to explain why. Talk about how safe your product/operation is all day long. Cedar Fair has specials that they've run on FunTV highlighting their daily and off-season inspections. Other parks have done the same from time to time. Don't cast your competitors as unsafe, don't highlight your safety features with the intent of speaking ill of your competitors - even if you think it won't, it will show, and it will reflect poorly on you. Don't come out and start hyping up your own relative safety in lieu of the media storm of a competitor's woes, that will reflect poorly on you. There's a difference here, even if it seems to be getting lost on some of us. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr0y Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 16 minutes ago, jsus said: Which car manufacturers came out in response to Toyota's sudden unintended acceleration fiasco and said, see, our cars can't do that because XYZ? They don't do that. They don't draw attention to themselves when a competitor's product is experiencing (potential) defects. Which OEM made light of Ford's Explorer rollover fiasco? Which OEM comments on how few recalls they issue vs. XYZ competitor? That doesn't happen in the auto industry. Discussing the safety features in your own product is selling the strengths of your product. Hyping up your product in comparison to your competitors' products experiencing safety defects is not the same and doesn't happen in that realm. Any time there is an incident involving a ride, guests are going to assume that similar rides are the same. During the incident of which you speak, you'll recall that all rides from the same manufacturer were shut down until the incident could be better understood and prevented going forward. Naturally, the public will ask, why isn't your ride closed? The correct response is to share that the ride is from another manufacturer. That's not commenting on the safety of the other ride, it's saying that the safety of yours hasn't been called into question. Not the same. The safety issue is directly related to Carowinds maintenance department missing the crack during their daily inspections, this isn’t so much a ride defect. Like you said any person that sees B&M support structure or track is going to be asking “Why isn’t this coaster closed?” “Coasters of that style aren’t safe.” How are you going to tell them this isn’t from the same manufacturer when it actually is? The idea I was suggesting is that you would market what your park does to keep people safe. Carowinds caused distrust in the industry because of their complacency. Therefor showcasing how one does inspections and safety is essentially saving face while at the same time subtly throwing shade… Let’s get back on topic tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsus Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 12 minutes ago, Tr0y said: The safety issue is directly related to Carowinds maintenance department missing the crack during their daily inspections, this isn’t so much a ride defect. Citation needed. What are the current industry best practices for inspection of a steel roller coaster structure? What does B&M advise its clients to do, on what schedule? What do Carowinds' maintenance procedures specify should be done on what schedule? What of that did Carowinds neglect to do? We have no idea when the initial crack actually became visible and what equipment/angle/lighting would've been necessary to see it. So maybe let's not just jump to attacking Carowinds' maintenance department. But, see, that was your whole point. It wasn't about "subtly" slighting your competitor, it was about directly attacking Carowinds as unsafe, while saying another park can be trusted. You don't benefit from casting doubts on any part of your industry in terms of safety, even competitors. CP with TTD, on the other hand.... That's the sort of incident that any of us would've reasonably hoped they would've prevented. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsus Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 Updated statement from Carowinds (the unexpected transparency continues, and is greatly appreciated): Quote July 12, 2023 Carowinds is currently in the process of removing the existing support column and replacing it with a new steel column fabricated by Bolliger & Mabillard (B&M), the ride manufacturer. This replacement requires meticulous preparation and detailed execution. This afternoon, on July 12, cranes will be assembled to securely hold and position the track element of the coaster while removing the components of the existing column. Hydraulic jacks will assist in lifting the column out of its foundation. Once successfully removed, the column will be carefully transported to a secured backstage area of the park. Grout pockets will undergo thorough cleaning to prepare for the installation of the new column. On Thursday, July 13, the new support column, along with hardware from B&M, will be delivered. Our skilled associates will diligently install the column, ensuring precise alignment and securely fastening the track/column connection. Following the completion of the column installation, an as-built survey will be conducted to accurately determine the elevations of the base plate. Every step of the process, from material delivery to installation, will be carefully monitored and adjusted as necessary to uphold the integrity of the structure. Carowinds is fully committed to ensuring a seamless transition and maintaining the highest standards of safety and precision throughout the project. Once the installation is complete, as part of our standard safety protocol, a comprehensive series of tests will be conducted to ensure the coaster's safety and integrity. These will include an accelerometer test that uses sensors to measure any variation in the ride experience. After that, we plan to operate the ride for 500 full cycles, performing tests and inspections of the entire ride throughout that period. Once this phase is completed, we will ask B&M and the third-party testing firm to perform a final inspection to ensure the ride exceeds all required specifications. Subsequently, we will collaborate with the North Carolina Department of Labor's Elevator and Amusement Device Bureau to prepare Fury 325 for reopening. We will provide an update regarding the reopening date of the ride once it has been finalized.” https://www.carowinds.com/blog/media-center/official-statement-fury-325 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 Wow. That statement from Carowinds provides an incredible amount of information above and beyond what I had expected. Proving this step-by-step series of events, since the public can readily observe, can squash a lot of online rumors. It is interesting how this highlights the whole support to the ground is getting replaced (inferred from the info regarding "pulled out of foundation" and "thorough cleaning" of the grout pockets). They aren't leaving any of the metal on this specific support to chance--it all goes. This also reveals they have high confidence in the defect being limited to that specific support, and not any overall design failure or deficiency. A statement like this really can go a long way (for those who have no technical background/understanding) that Carowinds is ensuring their safety. I agree with @jsus there is no benefit from any other park to throw shade at this incident to pump themselves up. The entire industry could use an improvement in perception of safety. The past few years have been rough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDMC01 Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 Agreed. Their latest statement was extremely thorough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr0y Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 Further investigation on the broken support will commence once it is taken down. https://www.wcnc.com/article/news/local/carowinds-fury-325-roller-coaster-crack-repair-cranes-support-beam-replacement-charlotte/275-93109968-e293-456b-a357-4761d1f69882 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsus Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 It begins. Looks like they're indeed going to have a crane provide a bit of extra support on the track while the support column is removed/replaced underneath it. Since they've started removing the old support, surely this means the new steel is on-site and ready to go (if not already installed at this point). https://myfox8.com/news/north-carolina/charlotte/repairs-underway-existing-support-column-removed-from-fury-325-at-carowinds/ Helicopter footage of the removal of the column itself. First, they took down the diagonal member and carefully laid it down on the ground. Then, the vertical member (or what's left of it) came down and was hauled off to the parking lot. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsus Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 And away we go! Is that supposed to be primer, as if they skipped the painting process to rush the steel out the door? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 Primer is really all that is needed for initial steel protection from rust. They could easily sneak in finish color paint to match onsite after installation at some point. There will likely be a couple of days somewhere in the extended test cycling where a crew could cherry pick up there and roll on a coat. I have no doubt they did whatever feasible to crash the schedule and get delivery as soon as possible. After watching the painters on Diamondback (via the webcam) it wasn't too crazy a task to paint a support in short order. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsus Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 22 minutes ago, Maddog said: Primer is really all that is needed for initial steel protection from rust. They could easily sneak in finish color paint to match onsite after installation at some point. There will likely be a couple of days somewhere in the extended test cycling where a crew could cherry pick up there and roll on a coat. I have no doubt they did whatever feasible to crash the schedule and get delivery as soon as possible. After watching the painters on Diamondback (via the webcam) it wasn't too crazy a task to paint a support in short order. Agreed. Primer would've protected the bare steel in transit and assembly. It's definitely not the rusty bare steel we usually see outside CSF waiting for paint. As we've seen with the inspections and removal/replacement of the support column, boom lifts can easily reach the top of this support from the ground. That gives them all the access they'll need to slap a coat of shiny white paint on it. Can't see it taking much time at all, just look at the quick work Baynum is making of re-repainting TTD's structure. Then, it can just dry in place, creating no additional delay. Painting it at CSF would've taken a bit less time probably - easier to paint individual sections laying flat in the shop - but it's likely that waiting for it to dry would've been the real delay. Not sure they'd want to ship steel with wet paint. This way, the paint can dry while inspections begin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver2005 Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 Good googly moogly that was fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKIDelirium Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 Looks like the lateral brace column is also being replaced, the one being raised in that video thumbnail has a bolting flange on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsus Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 5 minutes ago, PKIDelirium said: Looks like the lateral brace column is also being replaced, the one being raised in that video thumbnail has a bolting flange on it. Yep, the whole thing has been replaced, which is 3 total pieces on this particular support. The vertical member is one piece and the diagonal is two. Here you can see the primer-only diagonal member going up. Here you can see that the diagonal member has the same short piece at the bottom and then one long one. https://goo.gl/maps/2ACLq3e9KkDNABwd8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsus Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 Almost there.... https://www.facebook.com/groups/1993939207370508/?multi_permalinks=6660649074032808 Ta da! https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=235639289361009&set=p.235639289361009&type=3 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKIDelirium Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Ah, a not-so-shiny new column! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr0y Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Might as well leave it the color as is. It’s what the do with their wooden coasters am I right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKIDelirium Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Wood doesn’t rust, the most this has is some kind of primer or fabrication coating. It’s scuffed up where the rigging was attached to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsus Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 Maintenance slapped on a shiny coat of white paint, no problem! https://www.facebook.com/carowindsfansonly/posts/pfbid0aQgYj7ErnWV1eUmSPVPJyv8UwR15tEC4M3vTAXBRELAAoSB5Eyi8ww4sCK1LntbGl 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyGuy4KI Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 Looks like it might be testing soon! Thank goodness for B&M engineering. Can we say if this same scenario had happened to another manufacturer, it would have ended without injuries? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion-XL200 Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 23 hours ago, IndyGuy4KI said: Looks like it might be testing soon! Thank goodness for B&M engineering. Can we say if this same scenario had happened to another manufacturer, it would have ended without injuries? Potentially...doesn't hurt that the support was manufactured within 10 hours of the park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBEW_Sparky Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 On 7/15/2023 at 9:25 PM, IndyGuy4KI said: Looks like it might be testing soon! Thank goodness for B&M engineering. Can we say if this same scenario had happened to another manufacturer, it would have ended without injuries? C'mon man, really. Yes we can say that, as it would have been shut down just the same, at the same time, had it been a coaster of any other manufacturer. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoF96" Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 I’m not sure what Cedar Fair does, but at a park I worked at, the only coasters that got an entire DAILY track walk were the woodies, as they had the highest potential for failure or debris. The steel coasters were walked at the end of the day, but this was to collect lost articles, not inspect the track or supports (it was dark anyways). It’s not reasonable to suspect a full track walk of a steel coaster daily as to do so properly would take HOURS with assistive machinery needed to help. The drone solution is likely the only easy way to ensure it could be looked out without having to add and remove a device onto the tracks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr0y Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 9 hours ago, FoF96" said: I’m not sure what Cedar Fair does, but at a park I worked at, the only coasters that got an entire DAILY track walk were the woodies, as they had the highest potential for failure or debris. The steel coasters were walked at the end of the day, but this was to collect lost articles, not inspect the track or supports (it was dark anyways). It’s not reasonable to suspect a full track walk of a steel coaster daily as to do so properly would take HOURS with assistive machinery needed to help. The drone solution is likely the only easy way to ensure it could be looked out without having to add and remove a device onto the tracks. Im willing to bet B&M recommends daily track and support inspections. How it is executed is entirely up to the owner. Much like owning a car the manufacturer recommends when and what oil to get during changes but ultimately it is up to the owner to decide. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastercrush Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 Was fury ever showing closed on the carowinds website? Unless it's open it should say temporary closed or closed on the website. Kinda a bait and switch IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsus Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 31 minutes ago, Coastercrush said: Was fury ever showing closed on the carowinds website? Unless it's open it should say temporary closed or closed on the website. Kinda a bait and switch IMO. Not on the Fury 325 page - https://www.carowinds.com/rides-experiences/fury-325 But they do have a "Scheduled Ride Closures" page that lists Fury 325 - https://www.carowinds.com/scheduled-ride-closures You have to go looking for it under the Park Info tab: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco2000 Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 30 minutes ago, Coastercrush said: Was fury ever showing closed on the carowinds website? Unless it's open it should say temporary closed or closed on the website. Kinda a bait and switch IMO. Yes, that evening the crack went viral is showed it was closed on the website and still does. They were on top of it from the beginning: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coastercrush Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 6 minutes ago, disco2000 said: Yes, that evening the crack went viral is showed it was closed on the website and still does. They were on top of it from the beginning: You have to dig for it. Park info, schedules closes......be easy to put it on ride page as well like hershey park? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDMC01 Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 Off topic, but why is Vortex (at Carowinds ) closed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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