Rides Department Budget Cuts

[BeeastFarmer]

Meals in most parks have always been expensive relative to the outside world.  It's part of it.

 

As far as Winterfest, I hope it doesn't evolve into WinterCut.

[Tr0y]

1 hour ago, super7 said:

They have shot themselves in the foot with a meal plan. They make so little off of most of the meal plans that they jacked the price of sky high for individual meals.
 

I think the better business plan is just to have reasonably priced meals instead of the meal plan.  But they’re in too far to turn around now.

The point of doing that is to entice you to spend more money by buying the meal plan.

For example, when I took the lady friend to CP they wanted $104 for a single day ticket. BUT for 25ish more dollars I could’ve bought her a gold pass out right and had unlimited visits to CP.

 

No I didn’t pay $104 since I purchased the ticket online with a bring a friend discount. But you get the idea.

[disco2000]

5 minutes ago, Tr0y said:

The point of doing that is to entice you to spend more money by buying the meal plan.

For example, when I took the lady friend to CP they wanted $104 for a single day ticket. BUT for 25ish more dollars I could’ve bought her a gold pass out right and had unlimited visits to CP.

 

No I didn’t pay $104 since I purchased the ticket online with a bring a friend discount. But you get the idea.

Plus you didn't like her well enough for a repeat visit 

Also, if the meal plans didn't make them money, they would either get rid of them or raise the price.  Food prices have always been high at an amusement park.

But many people with a meal plan will now by a snack that they hadn't previously before the meal plans.  All that adds up.

[windshawne]

Well, I’ve not been to the park in a few years.  When fast pass started and required to have a decent day, it kinda turned me off.  Closing rides is really really dangerous-I hope they’re prepared 

[disco2000]

1 hour ago, windshawne said:

Well, I’ve not been to the park in a few years.  When fast pass started and required to have a decent day, it kinda turned me off.  Closing rides is really really dangerous-I hope they’re prepared 

Well they made it thru the regular season without lots of complaints of the closures...

[super7]

When SIX realized their cheap all season meal plans were not financially smart, they tried to take them away and it backfired even worse.
 

SEAS was able to successfully eliminate their meal plan.   But they have jacked prices up and cut hours so much it encourages customers to eat outside.    I also don’t think they had their meal plan available very long, so it wasn’t as ingrained into their customers at Cedar Fair.
 

Cedar Fair is in the same situation as Six Flags   Their customers are so used to the low price season passes and meal plans, they are in a bad position to try to take them away or increase prices to the level they should be.  
 

So the solution is to jack up the price sky high on everything else and cut portions and good quality.  Which is exactly what is happening. 
 

A better business plan IMO is to offer reasonably priced meals.  Then they are never giving away food like they do on the meal plan and profit off of every transaction. 
 

When the meal plan is used 20 plus times in a season, it isn’t very profitable when labor is factored in.    
 

I like the season pass, meal plan, and drink plan, for $350 American purchasing through Canada’s Wonderland. That’s all I’m going to spend in Cedar Fair Park’s for an entire season except for some camping at kings dominion. But just because the plan works well for me, I can’t defend it as a smart business practice. 
 

and I still contend these cheap season passes and meal  plans are ultimately the problem that is leading to all of these cutbacks. When customers get things cheaply, they’re going to get a lower quality product.

 

[BeeastFarmer]

1 minute ago, super7 said:

 

 

When the meal plan is used 20 plus times in a season, it isn’t very profitable when labor is factored in.    
 

I don't know specifics metrics for an average pay per meal, but if an annual meal plan is $140 and it's used 20 times, the cost per meal is $7.  Id guess the cost to Kings Island would e around $1.50 or $2.00 including labor, shrink and waste. 

If they didn't have a meal plan, the passholder might only buy 3 meals a season and either pack a meal or go to Wendy's. So Kings Island 's cost per meal escalates sharply. They still could make the same $7, but sell much much less.  So would you rather have $21 for 3 meals or $100.00?

[Tr0y]

57 minutes ago, super7 said:

When SIX realized their cheap all season meal plans were not financially smart, they tried to take them away and it backfired even worse.
 

SEAS was able to successfully eliminate their meal plan.   But they have jacked prices up and cut hours so much it encourages customers to eat outside.    I also don’t think they had their meal plan available very long, so it wasn’t as ingrained into their customers at Cedar Fair.
 

Cedar Fair is in the same situation as Six Flags   Their customers are so used to the low price season passes and meal plans, they are in a bad position to try to take them away or increase prices to the level they should be.  
 

So the solution is to jack up the price sky high on everything else and cut portions and good quality.  Which is exactly what is happening. 
 

A better business plan IMO is to offer reasonably priced meals.  Then they are never giving away food like they do on the meal plan and profit off of every transaction. 
 

When the meal plan is used 20 plus times in a season, it isn’t very profitable when labor is factored in.    
 

I like the season pass, meal plan, and drink plan, for $350 American purchasing through Canada’s Wonderland. That’s all I’m going to spend in Cedar Fair Park’s for an entire season except for some camping at kings dominion. But just because the plan works well for me, I can’t defend it as a smart business practice. 
 

and I still contend these cheap season passes and meal  plans are ultimately the problem that is leading to all of these cutbacks. When customers get things cheaply, they’re going to get a lower quality product.

 

The season long dining plan has returned to Six Flags. 

As far CF goes, specifically Kings Island the food portions and quality is fine, generally speaking. However Kings Island offerings of entrees are of the cheaper meats than the other parks I have visited in the Chain. CP, KD, and Carowinds offered more premium proteins than Kings Island.

I agree with you tho, as cheap as the passes are. I’d be willing to spend more in order to get a more premium experience.

[super7]

Right.   SIX offered the season dining pass for many seasons like Cedar Fair. When they eliminated it, it affected their attendance because their customers expected. Just like the Cedar Fair customers.  
 

I contend that It would’ve been better business and more profitable overall to have never offered it and just charged fair prices for food.     
 

but we are getting what we are paying for. A lesser experience because of the overall lower prices in a season pass package.

this includes the sleazy procedure that in Cedar Fair house of closing some parks entirely if attendance is low and there is any rain   That it is probably a high majority of season pass holders in attendance when they pull that trick. They know if even if they upset the season pass holders they will still buy the cheap season passes  

 

I would also prefer to pay more for a quality experience, longer park hours, all rides, operating, and most of all knowing that a Park is going to operate. It’s advertise hours when I travel.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

[disco2000]

Food prices have always been high at KI, or most amusement parks in general.  It is generally cheaper to get comparable food outside of the park.

People are paying for the convenience of not having to leave. 

And supply and demand comes into play as well.  If they offered up "fair" or "reasonable" prices like one could get going thru McDonalds (even though that is getting high too), then the food lines would be crazy long as not enough supply for the demand. 

People already complain about the long food lines now - imagine if now nobody left the park cause they could get a $1 burger...

So by having the prices higher, they can trim the supply and demand need.  They know people leave or go their car to eat, but they run the numbers and the costs to provide enough food places to keep everyone in the park exceeds the return.

Plus, if X number leave the park at any given time to eat in the lot or go down the street, that lessens the demand of everything in the park as well.

I am sure they make more money on the meal plans than anyone can imagine....

[super7]

Got it.  So it’s believed people spend more during the season because of the meal plans.   Personally the meal plans have probably cut my season expenditures in at least half of not more. 

[disco2000]

21 minutes ago, super7 said:

Got it.  So it’s believed people spend more during the season because of the meal plans.   Personally the meal plans have probably cut my season expenditures in at least half of not more. 

Scrutinize the quarterly and annual reports.  Per caps are up since meal plans were introduced.  Really dig into the numbers and you will see F&B has higher revenue with meal plans than pre-meal plans.

Sure there are some like you that maybe spend less now, but it is more than offset by other people, along with how they allocate costs and revenue.

While 2022 attendance was down 4% (over 1.2 million less guests) compared to pre-covid 2019, full year 2022 revenue was up 23% compared to pre-covid 2019.  That is meal plans, buying snacks, other pass add-ons, t-shirts, etc.

[IndyGuy4KI]

26 minutes ago, super7 said:

Got it.  So it’s believed people spend more during the season because of the meal plans.   Personally the meal plans have probably cut my season expenditures in at least half of not more. 

Do you ever get a pretzel, elephant ear,  something at sweet spot? Spend any money in the park that your would not have if you had bought 2 meals for the day?

I think that is the point others are trying to bring up. I know I am guilty and I am sure the park is banking (pun intended) on that being the case.

[johnjniehaus]

My cousin had a meal plan this season and we got our money's worth out of it. Seeing as he doesn't go all the time he barely broke even but we definitely didn't take a loss. I personally seldom eat at an amusement park so meal/drink plans have never held any appeal to me. I'm that guy who after breakfast went to magic mountain and survived the entire day on a soft pretzel and free water. If I go to Kings Island directly after work I can skip dinner and not have second thoughts about it. Tell you what though, that crepe cake at Grain and Grill is my new favorite Kings Island food item. My dad got a slice last time he went with me and I've been very tempted every time I walk past grain and grill now. 

[super7]

3 hours ago, IndyGuy4KI said:

Do you ever get a pretzel, elephant ear,  something at sweet spot? Spend any money in the park that your would not have if you had bought 2 meals for the day?

I think that is the point others are trying to bring up. I know I am guilty and I am sure the park is banking (pun intended) on that being the case.

No.  Even though meals are “free” eating more of the mediocre food there is not worth the price.   Eating isn’t a hobby for me, so 2 meals are sufficient.  
 

I think the meal snd drink plan are appx $180 of my season pass package.  That’s about 9 meals with drinks to bear even. 
 

I go at least 20x a year.   Eating just one meal a visit would be appx $400 spent.   Even if I was buying the sweets on the side, there is no way it would be $220 worth. 
 

I will say this for the season dining pass though. The food at these parks is not anything outstanding. So they probably do encourage people to eat at the park that would not eat at the park at all.  

[Kenban]

The people on this site really not good examples of what average is when it comes to utilization.  The pass price and meal plan price make sense in context with how many times they are used on average, when considering every pass holder, not just a small group of dedicated individuals.  Most passes really are not being used more than a handful of times a year.  For every pass holder going 20+ times a year there are multiple only going 1, 2, 3 times.  This is an old number and I cannot remember the source, but back around 2016 or 2017 I believe, the average was somewhere between 3 and 4.

I have never heard any hints at what average use is for the meal plan.  But it’s obviously low enough that the chain is making a good deal of money at the current price.  I am positive there are guests that get enough meals the park and the chain lose money on the meal plan, do they make it back on merchandise and other spending, maybe.  Whatever my meal plan costs Cedar Fair is easily paid for from my in park spending and that I have a prestige pass and season long Fast Lane.

Raising the price risks losing those guests who don’t really use it frequently.  The price point was decided to try to maximize revenue and profits, using data we don’t have access to.  They are selling the idea of unlimited, and using data to support how often it actually is used.  Guests are really bad at estimating how often they actually use their pass and meal plan.

[DispatchMaster]

Regarding the meal plans, it's not only the existence of them, it's also how frictionless they've made it to add them on to daily visits, often sacrificing some gate pricing integrity via packages.

Consider, if a mere 1 in 5 guests opts for a daily dining plan at $34 when they buy their ticket online, that's a cool ~$185 million in annual revenue  generated before a guest has even walked in the gate. Yes, some of that will overlap with in park per cap that would have already existed, but not all of it.

Couple that with CF's efforts to not only improve the quality of food, but especially their efforts to streamline food operations with modern, efficient facilities (e.g. Harmony Hall, Farmhouse, etc.), and it's clear why they have seen such gains in revenue.

Plus, long lines during peak attendance days would have the effect of preventing a nonzero number of guests from getting in line. Folks with an already-paid-for dining plan will be more likely to queue up regardless of how long the line is.

[BoddaH1994]

On 10/7/2023 at 7:27 PM, super7 said:

Got it.  So it’s believed people spend more during the season because of the meal plans.   Personally the meal plans have probably cut my season expenditures in at least half of not more. 

There are a certain percentage that will use the meal plan dozens - if not hundreds of times. Those are few and far between. Most will see the $100 (or whatever) price and assume if they got $110 worth of food then they came out ahead. What they don’t factor in is whether or not they would have spent the initial $100 if they didn’t have the meal plan. That’s the theory behind it. I’m sure the company loses money on some people, but it’s probably in the dozens. For most, they’ll use it five to ten times and the park will come out pretty far ahead. The way that it’s realized is there is a drawdown account and each time you use it, it draws a certain amount. It’s likely that oddball price that appears on your receipt. I’d bet you dollars-to-donuts that they count that as in-park per capita spending. So that would account for how per capita is often record breaking. 

[Driver8rws]

On 10/7/2023 at 8:02 PM, IndyGuy4KI said:

Do you ever get a pretzel, elephant ear,  something at sweet spot?

 

WHERE are Elephant Ears at K.I.??!!

Super excited if you are correct! 

[IndyGuy4KI]

10 hours ago, Driver8rws said:

 

WHERE are Elephant Ears at K.I.??!!

Super excited if you are correct! 

I might have been thinking CP. I am guessing funnel cakes is the only option at KI. Sorry to get you excited. 

[Driver8rws]

Went to Cedar Point last weekend for the first time since 2017 and was SO excited to get an Elephant Ear again back in the back western town area and they don't have them anymore!!

[BoddaH1994]

19 hours ago, IndyGuy4KI said:

I might have been thinking CP. I am guessing funnel cakes is the only option at KI. Sorry to get you excited. 

Who remembers where they sold elephant ears at KI? It was either where the French Corner is now, or where that snack stand to the left of it is. I’m thinking French Corner was the bakery at the time because I want to say that the snack stand was the Chippery in the time frame I am thinking about. 2004/5ish

[TombRaiderFTW]

Rivertown Funnel Cakes had them its first few years. I don't think they do anymore.