Winterfest 2023 Discussion

[BoddaH1994]

1 hour ago, disco2000 said:

That's a whole lotta cutting going on...

And people will still continue to show up allowing the corp folks to say "See we can cut all we want, people will still come"

10:1 says that when KI (finally) announces the event they count things that weren’t shows as shows, so they’ll cut 4 or 5 shows but the show count will go from 18 to 16 or something… 

This almost certainly accounts for why nothing has been announced.  They are, once again, e-begging for your votes in another USA Today poll.

[Benjamin22]

2 hours ago, Timchat2 said:

The WinterFest show page for Carowinds has been updated for 2023. The parade will return at Carowinds even though it apparently will not return to Kings Dominion.

Shows from 2022 that are no longer listed (and assumed to be cut) include Holly Jolly Trolley, Sparkle City Swing Machine, the Yule Logs, Tree-ditions, Christmas Bluegrass, Fezzywigs Brass Band, Four Drummers Drumming and the Mistletones.

But But... Six Flags sucks and has a bunch of budget cuts!!!! Cedar Fair is no longer the brand it was pre-pandemic. In 2019 they had several high quality seasonal events that are now shells of their former selves. Exactly why I don't care about this merger going through since there isn't much more that this park can sink.

[Imperial79]

Hilarious the park blocks people from their Facebook and Twitter/X social media pages for no real big reason, then asks for these same people to vote for them when it comes to Holiday events and Best Park. They haven't gotten any higher than 4 I believe, and doubt they'll get any higher than that. People have long memories and won't forget. 

[disco2000]

28 minutes ago, Benjamin22 said:

But But... Six Flags sucks and has a bunch of budget cuts!!!! Cedar Fair is no longer the brand it was pre-pandemic. In 2019 they had several high quality seasonal events that are now shells of their former selves. Exactly why I don't care about this merger going through since there isn't much more that this park can sink.

Or how long were they in discussions and Cedar Fair said what they heck lets try the SIX budget cuts and see what blowback we get before agreeing to the merger.

Outside of the enthusiasts, not many complaints by the GP on the ride budget cuts and cuts at Haunt.  Sure there was some, but the parks were busy even though it was a watered down Haunt 2019...so they agreed to combine forces and really water down the product moving forward.

As long as people show up, they have no incentive to spend any more than necessary.

[KI Fan75]

Now that the Winterfest details are up it is sad to see all of the shows that have been cut. 

[Orion742]

Glad to see Sol spin and Cargo Loco on the attractions list! Does anyone know if Flight of Fear will be Flight of Cheer or is it just a mistake on the website? It is listed as Flight of Fear currently.

[disco2000]

42 minutes ago, KI Fan75 said:

Now that the Winterfest details are up it is sad to see all of the shows that have been cut. 

https://www.visitkingsisland.com/events/winterfest/shows

Unless more changes are cut or they accidently put out a placeholder, there are still 13 "shows":

1. Tree Lighting Ceremony
2. Wonderland Parade
3. Swingin Into Christmas
4. The MistleTones
5. Songs of the Nativity
6. Holly Holiday's String-A-Long
7. Tinker's Toy Factory
8. A Peanuts Guide to Christmas
9. Cool Yule Christmas
10. Bah Humbug...What the Dickens
11. Ice Carvers
12. Coca-Cola Polar Party
13. Reindeer Roundup

[KI Fan75]

Holly Jolly Trolly, Blitzen’sBrass Band, Four Drummers Drumming, and Jingle Jazz are all gone. 

[disco2000]

1 minute ago, KI Fan75 said:

Holly Jolly Trolly, Blitzen’sBrass Band, Four Drummers Drumming, and Jingle Jazz are all gone. 

Yeah, and I would have exchanged some of the remaining events for some of the departed events.

[disco2000]

35 minutes ago, Orion742 said:

Glad to see Sol spin and Cargo Loco on the attractions list! Does anyone know if Flight of Fear will be Flight of Cheer or is it just a mistake on the website? It is listed as Flight of Fear currently.

And yet the ParkMap for Winterfest doesn't show either ride and shows Slingshot instead LOL 

[KI Fan75]

24 minutes ago, disco2000 said:

Yeah, and I would have exchanged some of the remaining events for some of the departed events.

Same here. And bring back Charlie Brown’s Christmas Spectacular.

[BoddaH1994]

1 hour ago, disco2000 said:

https://www.visitkingsisland.com/events/winterfest/shows

Unless more changes are cut or they accidently put out a placeholder, there are still 13 "shows":

1. Tree Lighting Ceremony
2. Wonderland Parade
3. Swingin Into Christmas
4. The MistleTones
5. Songs of the Nativity
6. Holly Holiday's String-A-Long
7. Tinker's Toy Factory
8. A Peanuts Guide to Christmas
9. Cool Yule Christmas
10. Bah Humbug...What the Dickens
11. Ice Carvers
12. Coca-Cola Polar Party
13. Reindeer Roundup

I don’t think it’s an accident. I found the page just navigating from the main page. This is probably really it 

[Orion-XL200]

1 hour ago, disco2000 said:

https://www.visitkingsisland.com/events/winterfest/shows

Unless more changes are cut or they accidently put out a placeholder, there are still 13 "shows":

1. Tree Lighting Ceremony
2. Wonderland Parade
3. Swingin Into Christmas
4. The MistleTones
5. Songs of the Nativity
6. Holly Holiday's String-A-Long
7. Tinker's Toy Factory
8. A Peanuts Guide to Christmas
9. Cool Yule Christmas
10. Bah Humbug...What the Dickens
11. Ice Carvers
12. Coca-Cola Polar Party
13. Reindeer Roundup

Are the last 3 really a show though? I’m thinking no. Ice carvers more of a demonstration, coca-cola polar party having a dj and games is not really a show and of course reindeer round up which is an animatronic with audio is not a show. 

[IndyGuy4KI]

1 minute ago, Orion-XL200 said:

Reindeer round up which is an animatronic with audio is not a show. 

They sing! It's like the old Showbiz Pizza! 

[DispatchMaster]

22 hours ago, disco2000 said:

And people will still continue to show up allowing the corp folks to say "See we can cut all we want, people will still come"

Is this supposed to be a criticism? If so, it also demonstrates terrible business acumen, because charging as much as the market will bear for something is, quite literally, how a successful business should operate. 

[FUN&ONLY!]

Honest question. For people who went to Winterfest last year, what’s bringing them back this year. There’s absolutely nothing new and a lot of the good stuff has been cut. It’s really sad to see. With everything that’s been going on this year, I just don’t get excited about Kings Island like I used to.

[disco2000]

25 minutes ago, DispatchMaster said:

Is this supposed to be a criticism? If so, it also demonstrates terrible business acumen, because charging as much as the market will bear for something is, quite literally, how a successful business should operate. 

Let's not turn this thread into another "bait and switch" argument lol.

The fact of the matter is people purchase a pass based on the offering of the previous year with anticipation/expectations that the product will be generally materially the same.

And the last few years they have watered down the product even late into a season.

We get it, we know you see a pass as only providing access and you spoke with your wallet when they materially changed the offering that you felt was of value.

You aren't going to change the mind of folks here, just like it is painfully obvious you aren't going to change your position or even empathize with others with valid arguments.

What company do you run so we can avoid it 

 

[DispatchMaster]

1 hour ago, disco2000 said:

...valid arguments.

It is not a "valid argument" to complain about the poor value of a product and the vendor's so-called lack of ethics, while continually and repeatedly purchasing that product while expecting a different outcome. Some might call that insanity.

1 hour ago, disco2000 said:

What company do you run so we can avoid it

A company that does not want nor need customers who cannot recognize nor understand what "value proposition" means. Those customers do not generate revenue sufficient to make it worth dealing with their never-ending complaints. 

[disco2000]

Just now, DispatchMaster said:

It is not a "valid argument" to complain about the poor value of a product and the vendor's so-called lack of ethics, while continually and repeatedly purchasing that product while expecting a different outcome. Some might call that insanity.

A company that does not want nor need customers who cannot recognize nor understand what "value proposition" means. Those customers do not generate revenue sufficient to make it worth dealing with their never-ending complaints. 

Some (maybe even the majority) might call it insanity to give up season passes simply over the ERT being devalued....you do realize a lot of people put ZERO value in ERT as they aren't early birds lol.  Plus if everyone put value on it and attended, then it would be devalue the perk even more lol.

Like all of us have said, just because we complain doesn't mean we still don't get value out of the park at the price point we are paying.  

But every person and company should strive to do better.  If they continue down this path of legal bait and switch, subject to change at anytime mentality, eventually they will lose enough that write them off.

Our complaints are more of constructive criticism than deal breakers at this point.

But at some point, an item will be the final straw, and we are hoping it doesn't get to that point.

[DispatchMaster]

21 minutes ago, disco2000 said:

you do realize a lot of people put ZERO value in ERT as they aren't early birds lol.  Plus if everyone put value on it and attended, then it would be devalue the perk even more lol.

This is absolutely nonsensical. I don't care how anyone else ascribes value to a product I'm purchasing, just as no one else should care how I value a product I purchase. The fact of the matter is that a point was reached wherein I no longer felt a product was worth the price, so I decided not to purchase it. No accusations of an "evil" company or absurd histrionics alleging "bait and switch" nonsense. I simply didn't buy a thing I felt no longer held sufficient value, informed the vendor about the reasoning, and went on with my life.

Reducing what is offered is fundamentally the same thing as an increase in price. It's not personal, not evidence of a lack of ethics, or whatever other emotionally-charged description you want to employ.

Behind the cotton candy, the water slides, and roller coasters, these are businesses and they can and should operate as a business. They exist to make a profit, so increasing prices to the point the market will bear, or on the flip side of that same token, reducing what is offered at that price (which, again, are fundamentally equivalent) is just business.

On the other side of the equation is the customer, who is and always should be trying to pay the lowest price possible for something. Such as trying to get the cheapest pass price possible, or trying to get as many meals as possible from their meal plan.

[Outdoor Man]

[mikejenkins1]

When will they post the food options, if at all...?

[disco2000]

59 minutes ago, DispatchMaster said:

This is absolutely nonsensical. I don't care how anyone else ascribes value to a product I'm purchasing, just as no one else should care how I value a product I purchase. The fact of the matter is that a point was reached wherein I no longer felt a product was worth the price, so I decided not to purchase it. No accusations of an "evil" company or absurd histrionics alleging "bait and switch" nonsense. I simply didn't buy a thing I felt no longer held sufficient value, informed the vendor about the reasoning, and went on with my life.

Reducing what is offered is fundamentally the same thing as an increase in price. It's not personal, not evidence of a lack of ethics, or whatever other emotionally-charged description you want to employ.

Behind the cotton candy, the water slides, and roller coasters, these are businesses and they can and should operate as a business. They exist to make a profit, so increasing prices to the point the market will bear, or on the flip side of that same token, reducing what is offered at that price (which, again, are fundamentally equivalent) is just business.

On the other side of the equation is the customer, who is and always should be trying to pay the lowest price possible for something. Such as trying to get the cheapest pass price possible, or trying to get as many meals as possible from their meal plan.

So which was it that caused you to not renew - a series of devaluing events that all added up and ERT dewatering was the final straw or just the ERT that you alluded to...you are sending mixed signals...

So we accept that you no longer found value in it. 

Why can't you accept that to many here, there hasn't been enough "devaluing" events to warrant not to renew and these same people are continuing to "inform the vendor" that a continual devaluing of the pass will result in them not renewing at some point?

Yes, it is true that reducing what is offered is fundamentally the same thing as an increase in price.  It is a way of life.  There are not many products one can buy that hasn't had shrinkage.

But folks here are saying "you know what, instead of reducing what is offered, how about increasing the price".  You apparently chose to ignore that fact.

Sometimes paying the lowest price possible for something isn't worth it.  Have you ever heard the saying "you get what you paid for".  There are many things in life people are willing to pay a premium for, but alas you probably purchase Big K cola instead of the real cola LOL.

And you mention you "went on with my life" and yet here you are LOL   Is it because you are jealous others are still enjoying the parks while you are not, or that you are trying to convince people to follow your lead and not renew...

There are other parts of my life and other forums, etc. that when I decided it was time to move on with my life, that is exactly what I did and completely left it behind and haven't logged on to those forums and even thought about those places again.

 

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming....Which "show" or event that remained would you have replaced with one of the departing shows.  I would replace the Holly Holiday's String-A-Long that usually gets a handful of guests with the popular and can't believe it is departed Four Drummers Drumming. 

[chad_1138]

If they cancel the mac 'n cheese bar, we riot.

[KIJOHNNY]

Does anyone on the forums have any information on the craft village?

[FUN&ONLY!]

https://www.wlwt.com/article/kings-island-winterfest-christmas-lights/45767917?fbclid=IwAR3DxfTjGMFA8vrtN0aypkyyKH82siznn08kGltRetYCbqOg7STSEpExozk
 

Despite the entertainment cuts, at least we can look forward to a big increase in lights for Winterfest! I hope the new lighting is well done!

[disco2000]

7 minutes ago, FUN&ONLY! said:

https://www.wlwt.com/article/kings-island-winterfest-christmas-lights/45767917?fbclid=IwAR3DxfTjGMFA8vrtN0aypkyyKH82siznn08kGltRetYCbqOg7STSEpExozk
 

Despite the entertainment cuts, at least we can look forward to a big increase in lights for Winterfest! I hope the new lighting is well done!

Let's hope at least 2 million of the existing 5 million are still working 

[Imperial79]

1 hour ago, FUN&ONLY! said:

https://www.wlwt.com/article/kings-island-winterfest-christmas-lights/45767917?fbclid=IwAR3DxfTjGMFA8vrtN0aypkyyKH82siznn08kGltRetYCbqOg7STSEpExozk
 

Despite the entertainment cuts, at least we can look forward to a big increase in lights for Winterfest! I hope the new lighting is well done!

Hope we see some of the new 2 million lights used for the train ride! That would make it even better! 

[disco2000]

13 minutes ago, Imperial79 said:

Hope we see some of the new 2 million lights used for the train ride! That would make it even better! 

Yep.  The 12 days was getting dated and run-down.

[BoddaH1994]

3 hours ago, DispatchMaster said:

This is absolutely nonsensical. I don't care how anyone else ascribes value to a product I'm purchasing, just as no one else should care how I value a product I purchase. The fact of the matter is that a point was reached wherein I no longer felt a product was worth the price, so I decided not to purchase it. No accusations of an "evil" company or absurd histrionics alleging "bait and switch" nonsense. I simply didn't buy a thing I felt no longer held sufficient value, informed the vendor about the reasoning, and went on with my life.

Reducing what is offered is fundamentally the same thing as an increase in price. It's not personal, not evidence of a lack of ethics, or whatever other emotionally-charged description you want to employ.

Behind the cotton candy, the water slides, and roller coasters, these are businesses and they can and should operate as a business. They exist to make a profit, so increasing prices to the point the market will bear, or on the flip side of that same token, reducing what is offered at that price (which, again, are fundamentally equivalent) is just business.

On the other side of the equation is the customer, who is and always should be trying to pay the lowest price possible for something. Such as trying to get the cheapest pass price possible, or trying to get as many meals as possible from their meal plan.

I like how you still try to pretend that offering something on the web site, selling the product, quietly changing the description of the product on the web site, and then offering no refunds to customers isn’t a bait and switch. You’ve already demonstrated that you don’t understand how business works, but I’d recommend that you Google what a “bait and switch” is. 

If we are treating KI as solely a business, then why did you imply that we should cut them some slack with their cut down schedule because of staffing? How would that be my problem? That’s like buying 10 personal training sessions for $100 and then they try to sell you 8 for the same price. When you ask about the change they throw it back at you saying that they can’t staff personal trainers. 
 

I’m with @disco2000. I’d like to know what business you run so I can avoid it. Or if you work for someone else, I’d like to know who it is so I can make sure that they know that their employees think that such unethical behavior is not only acceptable, but it is to be celebrated. 

Regardless if it’s Kings Island or any other company, unethical behavior will always come back to bite them, whether their spokesperson chooses to be available for comment or not.