Six Flags and Cedar Fair Merge

[IndyGuy4KI]

I guess we now have to start paying a lot closer attention to SIX news now. Here is their release. https://investors.sixflags.com/news-and-events/press-releases/2023/11-02-2023-100020810?mibextid=zxz2cz

On that page they call it  Cedar Fair and Six Flags Entertainment Corporation

[shark6495]

Days like today I miss terp and what they would have brought to this discussion. 
 

I hope they bring the best from both companies. I can only imagine what a FUN mentality could do with IP from SIX. But if it’s SIX with FUN IP I worry. 
 

do we need to get our last rides of Beast and Racer in?

 

 

[DispatchMaster]

4 minutes ago, IndyGuy4KI said:

On that page they call it  Cedar Fair and Six Flags Entertainment Corporation

Not according to this:

Quote

Upon closing of the transaction, the combined company will operate under the name Six Flags and trade under the ticker symbol FUN on the NYSE and will be structured as a C Corporation.

I think you misread the opening paragraph:

Quote

Cedar Fair (NYSE: FUN) and Six Flags Entertainment Corporation (NYSE: SIX) today announced that they have entered into a definitive merger agreement to combine in a merger of equals transaction.

[IndyGuy4KI]

6 minutes ago, DispatchMaster said:

Not according to this:

I think you misread the opening paragraph:

I am referring to what they put at the bottom of the page in the referenced release. Not what they state will happen.  Here is screenshot.

[DispatchMaster]

Isn't that simply stating that the source for the press release were "Cedar Fair" and "Six Flags Entertainment Corporation"?

[jsus]

26 minutes ago, IndyGuy4KI said:

I am referring to what they put at the bottom of the page in the referenced release. Not what they state will happen.  Here is screenshot.

Presently, there are two distinct entities looking to merge - 1) Cedar Fair, and 2) Six Flags Entertainment Corporation.  Both entities are the source of the information in this release.  It seems that is what they are referring to.

However, perhaps you could reach out to the listed media contact at the PR firm and inquire as to whether they plan to use that as a combined name, but it is not clear.

[beastfan11]

I hope every Cedar Fair executive who gave this the thumbs up gets violent diarrhea and steps on a Lego tonight. 
 

Corporate greed at its finest, guys! Dark day in KI history. 

[Klabergian Empire]

As a someone who prefers wooden coasters to steel, this is horrible news. Six Flags does not take good care of their wooden coasters for the most part. I pray that Racer, Beast and Mystic Timbers don't fall into the same poor quality that other Six Flags wooden coaster fall into. Hopefully the Cedar Fair side of the merger continues to operate Kings Island and maintains our wood coasters to the same high level they have the last several years.

I also want to make very clear that an RMC hybrid of any KI wooden coaster will be a mistake of unfathomable proportions. I am most worried about Beast. Mark my words, if they ever RMC Beast, I will never go to Kings Island again. If they really want to give Kings Island an RMC, build a ground up one. Simple as that.

Even removing the wooden coaster aspect, I am worried about what this is going to do to Kings Island. Kings Island is a very special place to a lot of people (I myself included) and the Six Flags branding is going to erode the unique charm of Kings Island and make it feel like every other park.

The point is I just don't have a good feeling about this merger from the quality aspect of the park. I have a gut feeling that over the next few years, unless the Cedar Fair side is able to maintain Kings Island the way it has been, we will see Kings Island change not for the better. Change is a part of life, but there is a difference between good change and bad change. I am 100% willing to give this a chance and I am. But there are a thousand ways that this can mess up and I pray that the right decisions are made and not ones that will irreversibly damage Kings Island.

[DJSkyFoxx]

As someone who always tries to be optimistic in cloudy situations, this is one I simply CANNOT feel optimistic about. I have never been a fan of SIX and their way of running their parks. Too shady and too greedy. Granted my experience as a guest on their properties is limited, I don't have a lot of great memories as a whole. And from what others have said throughout the various park pages I follow, I haven't heard very many good things from folks when it comes to SIX parks and their experiences with their properties. 

I get that at the end of the day, business is business and these two companies are always going to be about the bottom line/dollar, but this is a sad sad day for myself and many others. I really do hope that good things will emerge from this, I truly do, But I fear this situation is going to end up in many parks getting dumped off on the side of the road GL, KK and SFNO style. Maybe that is a dramatic reaction, but seeing as how SIX seems to dump properties like kittens at a pound...I cannot help but be scared of what they might have the power to do in this situation. I get it, they don't own the entire merger, but depending on how the lead heads in charge duke it out...well...we will see. 

I am sad. That is all I can say. 

[Benjamin22]

1 minute ago, DJSkyFoxx said:

As someone who always tries to be optimistic in cloudy situations, this is one I simply CANNOT feel optimistic about. I have never been a fan of SIX and their way of running their parks. Too shady and too greedy. Granted my experience as a guest on their properties is limited, I don't have a lot of great memories as a whole. And from what others have said throughout the various park pages I follow, I haven't heard very many good things from folks when it comes to SIX parks and their experiences with their properties. 

I get that at the end of the day, business is business and these two companies are always going to be about the bottom line/dollar, but this is a sad sad day for myself and many others. I really do hope that good things will emerge from this, I truly do, But I fear this situation is going to end up in many parks getting dumped off on the side of the road GL, KK and SFNO style. Maybe that is a dramatic reaction, but seeing as how SIX seems to dump properties like kittens at a pound...I cannot help but be scared of what they might have the power to do in this situation. I get it, they don't own the entire merger, but depending on how the lead heads in charge duke it out...well...we will see. 

I am sad. That is all I can say. 

Don't worry, Im sure Richard will make sure the combined companies synergies will unlock new opportunities to bait and switch pass holders  

[BoddaH1994]

1 hour ago, DispatchMaster said:

Enthusiasts have this fantastical opinion that a nontrivial number of Park X's guests are cross-shopping with Park Y, to the point they're convinced KI and CP are in competition when they are quite obviously not.

Depends on the market. CP and KI certainly used to compete for Columbus. But that’s a A/B choice.
 

But you’re right - the crossover, as people are thinking about it, is very small. 

[RollerColt]

1 hour ago, Benjamin22 said:

How is this a monopoly? Regional amusement parks are peanuts compared to the larger destination entertainment providers. Also throwing around monopoly doesn’t really make sense in this context given for the most these parks aren’t near eachother.

It's more about the trend. Some of the two biggest amusement entertainment companies merging together is worrisome. We're seeing it everywhere in an ever growing corporate dominated world. Nearly every business and product we interact with is owned and controlled by a parent company. Just look at what Kroger is doing. They're buying out other stores and companies, and are meanwhile increasing their prices while lowering the quality. 

Sure, the regional parks like Holiday World and Dollywood are doing their own thing. But for how much longer? 

[Coasterteam]

2 hours ago, IndyGuy4KI said:

I don't even know where to begin. First, I want to say thank you Cedar Fair for keeping our wood coasters up and in such good shape. I now 100% appreciate the track work done over the past few years. I know change is hard for a lot of people. I tend to think I am not one of them, but I am having a very hard time thinking what this will mean for our current CF parks.

I feel like parks are going to be more stagnant in changes. Who knows though? I just want KI to keep on chugging, that’s why I love it so much. 

Wild to wake up to this. 

[disco2000]

And folks thought the new season pass structure was difficult to follow this year?  Wait until SIX and CF try to figure out how to combine/simplify/etc. the pass process moving forward LOL.

 

[David Ellis]

Not surprised about the merger between Six Flags and Cedar Fair.....although I don't mind welcoming Six Flags to Cedar Fair family, so with that said don't expect any major changes until at least 2025.....

[TheRickster]

boy capitalism sure is great...

I really wish them the best, but I just don't think Cedar Fair can steer a ship this large. It's 100% a shareholder game now and that means the consumer loses.

[beastfan11]

The face you make when Cedar Fair annihilates their positive brand equity by aligning themselves with the Walmart of the amusement/theme park industry…

 

[Leland Wykoff]

3 hours ago, Sixflags82 said:

I don't really see that tbh, theres nothing but good signs in everything that has been released, and keep in mind that Cedar Fair will still be the majority share holder

Will Cedar Fair really be majority shareholder?  Note the shareholders of FUN will only have a slight edge of control at 51.2 percent.  However, just as importantly, the new proposed board of directors will be comprised of an equal number of members from both Six and Cedar Fair, directly from the FUN press release:

"Following closing of the transaction, the newly formed Board of Directors of the combined company will consist of 12 directors, six from the Cedar Fair Board and six from the Six Flags Board."

Compounding this equal representation on the proposed new board, is the carryover of Six Flags staff.  Given both Six CEO and CFO are given prominent positions political battles for internal direction and control are quite likely to develop.  Cedar Fair appears to be the controlling party only in Fantasy Land.     

[Leland Wykoff]

1 minute ago, beastfan11 said:

The face you make when Cedar Fair annihilates their positive brand equity by aligning themselves with the Walmart of the amusement/theme park industry…

 

Stranger combinations have happened.  Carnival, the K-Mart of cruise lines, merged venerable Cunard into their family of brands, rather successfully.

This was accomplished by maintaining brand integrity of Cunard.  It is not clear, at this point, if brand integrity will be maintained, much less expanded, by legacy Cedar Fair parks.  Should legacy FUN Parks take on the Six Flags moniker it could damage the premium consumer perceptions of those properties.  Customers would suddenly come to equate a Six Flags Kings Island with the likes of a Roses Express discount store. 

[Coasterteam]

My initial concerns: 

- Dorney may be a Geauga Lake part 2 

- Six Flags Kings Island / Six Flags Ohio / Six Flags Cedar Point… (don’t think they’d do this)

- CF now will own another CGA… 

- Drop in quality across chain (already seeing this at Knotts to be honest) 

Some good things though:

- Better FastLane system (FlashPass is pretty cool imo) 

- CF cleaning standards and maintenance upkeep across more parks

There’s more but I’m not gonna write a block of text. Cheerio. 

[Orion742]

Wow… I don’t know what to say… I never thought I’d see the day…

As long as CF makes a push to keep our parks the same and turn the other SIX parks into nicer parks then I’m fine but if it goes the other way… things could turn badly FAST. If we start to turn into a Six Flags park then I will pray that Hershend steps in and buys KI. This deal could go either way.

[DJSkyFoxx]

22 minutes ago, disco2000 said:

And folks thought the new season pass structure was difficult to follow this year?  Wait until SIX and CF try to figure out how to combine/simplify/etc. the pass process moving forward LOL.

 

Yeah I was thinking that very same thought.  Going forward I wonder what the pass structure will be, cost and how add-ons will look. If there will be a seperate "all CF passport, all SIX passport or combined passport" type structure. I have sooooo many questions that I know cannot be answered at this time because unfortunately this is fresh news and only time will tell with how things play out and look. Ooof.

[BoddaH1994]

For those of you who think this is a monopoly, you need to know what a monopoly is. 
 

Remember, Six Flags won’t own every aspect of entertainment. They’ll own the local park. The local park largely competes with other outside avenues to that are fighting for your discretionary income. As @DispatchMaster stated, the parks aren’t competing with each other, with the exception of some small overlapping markets. Kings Island isn’t trying to draw guests away from Kentucky Kingdom. They’re trying to draw fans away from the Reds.  One could even argue that Disney World is a much stronger competitor than your neighboring park. With that said, the competition still exists. The buying power is stronger, thus typically leading to higher margins, which is something both chains desperately need. Let’s just hope and pray that they do take the best of both chains and do something special rather than making it kind of dismal like some of the Six Flags parks.

15 minutes ago, TheRickster said:

boy capitalism sure is great...

I really wish them the best, but I just don't think Cedar Fair can steer a ship this large. It's 100% a shareholder game now and that means the consumer loses.

How is this a referendum on capitalism? It’s two companies who were already publicly traded. If a private equity firm had stepped in, bought up the shares, and started making cuts then I could see a first semester freshman philosophy major blaming capitalism, but this is nonsense. You earn money, you choose what to do with the extra. The parks compete for that money. The parks absolutely exist because of capitalism.  

[TheRickster]

This press release should have jsut been.

 

"WE'D LIKE TO WELCOME BACK JEFFREY SEIBERT TO THE TEAM!"

 

then a small blib about the merger.

[disco2000]

1 minute ago, Orion742 said:

Wow… I don’t know what to say… I never thought I’d see the day…

As long as CF makes a push to keep our parks the same and turn the other SIX parks into nicer parks then I’m fine but if it goes the other way… things could turn badly FAST. If we start to turn into a Six Flags park then I will pray that Hershend steps in and buys KI. This deal could go either way.

But if turning the SIX parks comes at a cost of diverting money to said parks, KI doesn't win in that situation.  We already saw CF do that with KI this year, now we have even more underperforming parks to worry about.

Which pricing structure for passes and daily do they take on moving forward as that will be a key driver into the intent?  Obviously no change to 2024.  We may start to see it transition in 2025, but probably won't see a better picture moving forward 2026 when they try to fully incorporate/consolidate the season pass structure.

[beastfan11]

Just now, Leland Wykoff said:

Stranger combinations have happened.  Carnival, the K-Mart of cruise lines, merged venerable Cunard into their family of brands, rather successfully.

This was accomplished by maintaining brand integrity of Cunard.  It is not clear, at this point, if brand integrity will be maintained, much less expanded, by legacy Cedar Fair parks.  Should legacy FUN Parks take on the Six Flags moniker it could damage the premium consumer perceptions of those properties.  Customers would suddenly come to equate a Six Flags Kings Island with the likes of a Roses Express discount store. 

Great points. I certainly hope they can do this the right way.
 

But regardless of what direction the legacy CF parks go, the association with Six Flags could potentially be damaging. They could make every right decision, but for many the Six Flags name alone is enough for people to walk away. Example? Ironically enough I made a joke about Six Flags last week in front of my mom who more or less said, “I’m glad we have KI close because those Six Flag parks are dirty.” 
 

Mind you, she doesn’t know anything of the industry. She’s not an enthusiast (even though she used to drop me off at the park all the time when I was younger. Thanks mom!) 

But that’s the cultural attitude a lot of people have of the Six Flags brand. And that would be a big concern if I were one of the overpaid fat cats driving this bus. 

[TheRickster]

5 minutes ago, BoddaH1994 said:

For those of you who think this is a monopoly, you need to know what a monopoly is. 
 

Remember, Six Flags won’t own every aspect of entertainment. They’ll own the local park. The local park largely competes with other outside avenues to that are fighting for your discretionary income. As @DispatchMaster stated, the parks aren’t competing with each other, with the exception of some small overlapping markets. Kings Island isn’t trying to draw guests away from Kentucky Kingdom. They’re trying to draw fans away from the Reds.  One could even argue that Disney World is a much stronger competitor than your neighboring park. With that said, the competition still exists. The buying power is stronger, thus typically leading to higher margins, which is something both chains desperately need. Let’s just hope and pray that they do take the best of both chains and do something special rather than making it kind of dismal like some of the Six Flags parks.

How is this a referendum on capitalism? It’s two companies who were already publicly traded. If a private equity firm had stepped in, bought up the shares, and started making cuts then I could see a first semester freshman philosophy major blaming capitalism, but this is nonsense. You earn money, you choose what to do with the extra. The parks compete for that money. The parks absolutely exist because of capitalism.  

The company is going to be too big for the voice in the room that wants to run a theme park like a theme park. The boat is too big to be steered in the right direction now. Comparing FUN to SIX stock and shareholders is even very different. 

[DoomPlague]

Good news everyone, Cedar Fair is getting a brand new Intamin next year.

Definitely a lot of concern with this news. A lot of potential downsides and few if any real upsides. But I'll try to stay positive:

1. Cedar Fair is the majority holder here. The HQ will be at CF's property in Charlotte and it seems that they are intent with keeping a lot of CF strategies (for better or for worse...but compare that to the the how Six has been ran recently...)

2. Maybe we potentially get Hanna Barbara back?

3. That all parks pass (or whatever might replace it...) may eventually get you into a ton of parks

 

Plus none of us actually know how this will play out. We aren't prophets.
Also keep in mind that neither chain, from my understanding, dictates everything about each park. Parks get some level of autonomy at both.

Other parks, like Dorney, have been discussed but am I the only one that thinks major changes might come to Magic Mountain? That park continually underperforms for its size, location and continual investments.
 

[RollerColt]

13 minutes ago, BoddaH1994 said:

For those of you who think this is a monopoly, you need to know what a monopoly is. 
 

Remember, Six Flags won’t own every aspect of entertainment. They’ll own the local park. The local park largely competes with other outside avenues to that are fighting for your discretionary income. As @DispatchMaster stated, the parks aren’t competing with each other, with the exception of some small overlapping markets. Kings Island isn’t trying to draw guests away from Kentucky Kingdom. They’re trying to draw fans away from the Reds.  One could even argue that Disney World is a much stronger competitor than your neighboring park. With that said, the competition still exists. The buying power is stronger, thus typically leading to higher margins, which is something both chains desperately need. Let’s just hope and pray that they do take the best of both chains and do something special rather than making it kind of dismal like some of the Six Flags parks.

How is this a referendum on capitalism? It’s two companies who were already publicly traded. If a private equity firm had stepped in, bought up the shares, and started making cuts then I could see a first semester freshman philosophy major blaming capitalism, but this is nonsense. You earn money, you choose what to do with the extra. The parks compete for that money. The parks absolutely exist because of capitalism.  

This is directed at me, and I get it. I was the one who called this a monopoly and that's not the correct term for it. 

I don't really care about the competition between parks, because as you say they're regional. 

What I do care about is large corporations caring only about profit and not the consumers. 

[Imperial79]

I am worried about how big the company is and if they can run it like CF has been, this is more than doubling the parks they have, SF comes with a lot of baggage, will the SF parks drag down the whole company? I hope not, but they have bunch of work to do to bring all of those parks up to CF's standards. One good thing is SF has Hanna-Barbara so CF can use them at KI again, and we can see some of the characters we used to see in the park again, I don't want to see any DC stuff! I think the golden opportunity was when SEAS offered to merge, I wish CF and SEAS came to an agreement, both companies are doing good and it would make them stronger, SF is not doing so good, and their brand is not known for good quality. I hope CF knows what they're doing.