Six Flags and Cedar Fair Merge

[Vortex1987]

25 minutes ago, Tr0y said:

If done tastefully. I think DC comics would be a welcomed replacement of Action Zone.

Oh HECK no. Lol. If that happens, I'll boycott lol. 

 

Just kidding, but i just dont like the way Six Flags parks are, dc superheros everywhere, advertisements plastered everywhere on rides, ect. 

[beastfan11]

A Gotham City retheme of Action Zone would be welcome. 

[Vortex1987]

10 minutes ago, beastfan11 said:

A Gotham City retheme of Action Zone would be welcome. 

NO. NO. NO 

 

Keep the superhero stuff and cheezy ads out of KI.

[beastfan11]

1 hour ago, Vortex1987 said:

NO. NO. NO 

 

Keep the superhero stuff and cheezy ads out of KI.

As opposed to what’s there now? A mismatched, hodge podge collection of thematically unrelated  experiences? We’d be lucky if they decided to overhaul that whole section of the park. Should they do it right. 

[Vortex1987]

18 minutes ago, beastfan11 said:

As opposed to what’s there now? A mismatched, hodge podge collection of thematically unrelated  experiences? We’d be lucky if they decided to overhaul that whole section of the park. Should they do it right. 

I hate the fact that Six flags plasters ads everywhere in their parks and on their rides, it just looks so tacky.  Plus the superhero theming is lame as heck and just too cliche'd.

 

That building NEEDS a top spin. Its what it was built for. Bring back the adventure. Make it incredible like TRTR but without the IP. 

 

Tomb Raider: The Ride is still the best utilized flat I've ever seen to this day. It took just a simple intense flat ride, gave it some incredible theatrics and effects, and turned it into a full blown show. It looked absolutely incredible. What a real shame Cedar Fair had to ruin it. 

 

I just want something as close to the original ride as possible without the IP. I will always be salty that I never got to experience Tomb Raider The Ride at peak performance. It looks absolutely incredible, seriously the thing you'd find at Universal. Its the perfect fusion of thrill and theming. Why is it almost always that when a flat ride gets heavy theming its a small kids flat ride or a fair ride that isnt intense at all? Tomb Raider The Ride took a simple, intense flat, the Top spin, and turned it into a masterpiece with incredible theatrics. 

 

I will always be salty I never got to ride Tomb Raider The Ride in its peak. It has fascinated me for a very long time and I'd sell my kidney to be able experience it, just even once. Sadly, that cant happen thanks to Cedar Fair. I did ride it in 2008 with that 9 inversion cycle and it to this day is the only ride to make me vomit after getting off, and to leave me shaking in fear. That 9 inversion cycle on the giant top spin............ that was scary. 

 

Also rode it in 2010 as the ferris wheel in a box. That was awful.It was terrible. I've still to this day never exited a ride with the entire crowd boo-ing when they got off. It made me laugh my rear off. LOL.  Even that though was better than nothing though. Sadly though, its a memory now. 

 

Dam you Cedar Fair for ruining my dream. At least I have a near-perfect replication of it in Planet Coaster. 

 

[beastfan11]

8 minutes ago, Vortex1987 said:

That building NEEDS a top spin. It’s what it was built for. Bring back the adventure. Make it incredible like TRTR but without the IP.

I was talking about Action Zone. Not sure what that has to do with TR:TR. But the theme and IP were, and would still be horribly out of place. So, hopefully they won’t do that. 

 

12 minutes ago, Vortex1987 said:

Tomb Raider: The Ride is still the best utilized flat I've ever seen to this day. 

…

 I will always be salty that I never got to experience Tomb Raider The Ride at peak performance. 

Pretty bold claim to make without having experienced it. 
 

16 minutes ago, Vortex1987 said:

Dam you Cedar Fair for ruining my dream. At least I have a near-perfect replication of it in Planet Coaster. 

 

Cedar Fair isn’t really to blame. Huss, the ride’s manufacturer, created a faulty product that literally tore itself apart. The ride’s removal was inevitable. 
 

You should check out the Defunctland video if you haven’t.  Enjoyable if you’re interested in the subject. 
 

 

[Vortex1987]

4 minutes ago, beastfan11 said:

I was talking about Action Zone. Not sure what that has to do with TR:TR. But the theme and IP were, and would still be horribly out of place. So, hopefully they won’t do that. 

 

Pretty bold claim to make without having experienced it. 
 

Cedar Fair isn’t really to blame. Huss, the ride’s manufacturer, created a faulty product that literally tore itself apart. The ride’s removal was inevitable. 
 

You should check out the Defunctland video if you haven’t.  Enjoyable if you’re interested in the subject. 
 

 

You don't have a clue how many times I've seen that. Lol. 

 

The thing wouldve never destroyed itself if it wasnt for Cedar Fair giving it that 9 inversion cycle as V1 of the crypt. They had the rights to use the Tomb Raider IP until 2016 in the deal when they bought it out from Paramount but Dick Kinzel was an a** and completely ruined it right away. It kind of IS their fault. 

 

Also, my bad, i thought you were talking about Rivertown. I do still despise the tacky DC theming though. Lol. 

 

I'd sell my soul to be able to experience TR:TR at peak performance. Sadly though, that will never happen.   

 

At least I have it in Planet Coaster. Lol.

[BeeastFarmer]

TRTR is one of the reasons that "Paramount" was a terrible operator towards their end of the stewardship of the park. Lots of $ spent, great idea, and the theme looks on point, but the ride itself was not a long term solution. It should have been built on the other side of the park where it would have loosely fit in the jungle theme of Adventure Express, and the viewshed would have been more appropriate with fof there.  Kings Dominion version, while not in a box and not a giant, was much better done and area appropriate. It was a sight to behold...I wouldn't have the stomach to ride, but I enjoyed watching it in between Volcano: The Blast Coaster rides. 

[TombRaiderFTW]

1 hour ago, Vortex1987 said:

That building NEEDS a top spin. Its what it was built for. Bring back the adventure. Make it incredible like TRTR but without the IP. 

Except they presumably can't do that. The concept of a highly-themed top spin ride experience in a box is patented to Paramount Parks, and based on how the detheme into The Crypt went, the rights to that patent apparently did not pass to Cedar Fair.

42 minutes ago, Vortex1987 said:

The thing wouldve never destroyed itself if it wasnt for Cedar Fair giving it that 9 inversion cycle as V1 of the crypt. They had the rights to use the Tomb Raider IP until 2016 in the deal when they bought it out from Paramount but Dick Kinzel was an a** and completely ruined it right away. It kind of IS their fault.

This is a pretty bold assumption regarding the cycle. I'd sooner guess that the locking/unlocking of the gondola required by the TRTR cycle was already doing quite a bit of wear before the 9-flip cycle showed up. We can assume that the 9-flip cycle, which was the same cycle used on KD's Tomb Raider/Crypt, had proven sustainable there, so they attempted to make it work on the Giant Top Spin. IIRC, Giant Top Spins were no longer offered by HUSS by the time our Crypt bit the dust (plus our Crypt only kept the KD cycle for a year and a half), so one could extrapolate that both KI and HUSS found Giant Top Spins to be unsustainable.

42 minutes ago, BeeastFarmer said:

TRTR is one of the reasons that "Paramount" was a terrible operator towards their end of the stewardship of the park. Lots of $ spent, great idea, and the theme looks on point, but the ride itself was not a long term solution.

Once upon a time, a user here claimed that TRTR was a test by Paramount to see if they could get an ROI on Florida-theme-park-level investments in their regional theme parks. Had TRTR been a bigger draw, it would have seen more money spent on refurbishing effects, and future additions would have been closer to the TRTR scale.

I have no idea if there's any truth to it, but it does provide a context that, to me, makes sense for why Paramount went crazy on the budget for the 2000-2002 installations and then immediately dialed back to "cheap and cheerful" installations and unsustained theming until the sale to Cedar Fair.

[Vortex1987]

4 minutes ago, TombRaiderFTW said:

Except they presumably can't do that. The concept of a highly-themed top spin ride experience in a box is patented to Paramount Parks, and based on how the detheme into The Crypt went, the rights to that patent apparently did not pass to Cedar Fair.

This is a pretty bold assumption regarding the cycle. I'd sooner guess that the locking/unlocking of the gondola required by the TRTR cycle was already doing quite a bit of wear before the 9-flip cycle showed up. We can assume that the 9-flip cycle, which was the same cycle used on KD's Tomb Raider/Crypt, had proven sustainable there, so they attempted to make it work on the Giant Top Spin. IIRC, Giant Top Spins were no longer offered by HUSS by the time our Crypt bit the dust (plus our Crypt only kept the KD cycle for a year and a half), so one could extrapolate that both KI and HUSS found Giant Top Spins to be unsustainable.

Once upon a time, a user here claimed that TRTR was a test by Paramount to see if they could get an ROI on Florida-theme-park-level investments in their regional theme parks. Had TRTR been a bigger draw, it would have seen more money spent on refurbishing effects, and future additions would have been closer to the TRTR scale.

I have no idea if there's any truth to it, but it does provide a context that, to me, makes sense for why Paramount went crazy on the budget for the 2000-2002 installations and then immediately dialed back to "cheap and cheerful" installations and unsustained theming until the sale to Cedar Fair.

I completely forgot that you sent me the actual patent to the ride. I can garauntee though that 9 inversion cycle had to make things worse. Lol.

 

They literally patented almost the entire thing. Dang you Cedar Fair. You had the rights to use the Paramount IP until 2016 but you removed it all way too early.  Oh well. 

 

Thank you Planet Coaster though lol. 

 

Now I wonder one thing....... 

 

How can I get a small bolt or something off the TR:TR seats  sitting in FOF's building? Lol. That would be almost impossible. 

 

I'd sell my kidney for a piece of that seat. Lol.

 

 

[TombRaiderFTW]

32 minutes ago, Vortex1987 said:

I can garauntee though that 9 inversion cycle had to make things worse. Lol.

Sure, and I didn't claim it didn't. I just disagree with what you initially said, which is that the only reason the Giant Top Spin was unsustainable was because of the 9-flip cycle.

Getting back to the subject at hand prior to the TRTR tangent: I think at this point I'd just be happy to see Action Zone have an actual theme, lol. If it's DC, cool. If it's something else, cool. I'm happy with Adventure Port, so if they can pull something off of a similar magnitude, I'm good. If they wanted to stay on the nostalgia train, they could resurrect Adventure Village in spirit and expand Adventure Port to the rest of Action Zone.

[Vortex1987]

10 minutes ago, Cedar Fair Fanboy said:

All the denying of a Madhouse, all the denying of any coaster inside, all of the bragging about how a Top Spin is better, it all lead up to you being an upset fan of Tomb Raider: The Ride, and wanted to bring it back.  So... your like me, but really REALLY far-out.

I honestly just think that whatever will replace it will be boring as heck compared to the original ride. Lol. A madhouse just sounds like a very lame ride. Just rocking back and forth with a rotating wall, thats it. Not really interesting to me at least. 

 

Maybe....... they  could put Kings Dominions FOF in there.............................................. Just kidding. That would be absolutely hilarious. LOL. (I know thats not happening)

 

But @TombRaiderFTW Action Zone does need a retheme. A gothic theme would be amazing to match Banshee and The Bat, but who knows. If DC comics and those characters start to come to KI I'll be very disappointed if the park gets Six-Flags-ified. Oh well. They just aren't my cup of tea. If that does end up happening, I'll probably never go back. I can't stand the way SF lets their parks look junky, run down plastered with advertisements everywhere. Thats part of the reason I love KI so much. Its run very well and very well upkept, no ads slapped on rides like Six Flags does, no ugly vegetation overgrowth, much cleaner, ect. 

 

Maybe use Banshee's and The Bat's gothic-like themes for an Action Zone redo? That would be cool!!

[silver2005]

I'm for just taking the TRTR box down and doing something more akin to Rivertown there like a decent water ride or a flat ride.   

[Vortex1987]

1 minute ago, silver2005 said:

I'm for just taking the TRTR box down and doing something more akin to Rivertown there like a decent flume or a flat ride.  

If they take the box down, I want  a piece of that triangle of light door as memorabilia............................... Or a bolt or something off the TR seats sitting in FOF's building...... LOL. 

 

I'd buy it.  I hope you all know I'm not kidding. 

[silver2005]

I would also like to add to the opinion that I would be alright with any DC theming being added.  Granted I've only been to one Six Flags park in SFGAdv, but I thought what they did on their DC line up was pretty decent, at least on par or in some cases better than any of CF's attempt at theming.   I really dig the queues for Batman :The Ride and Dark Knight, and while I didn't get to ride it back on my first visit in 2000, I did go through the queue of Batman and Robin: The Chiller and was okay with that.  

[WoodVengeance]

14 minutes ago, silver2005 said:

I would also like to add to the opinion that I would be alright with any DC theming being added.  Granted I've only been to one Six Flags park in SFGAdv, but I thought what they did on their DC line up was pretty decent, at least on par or in some cases better than any of CF's attempt at theming.   I really dig the queues for Batman :The Ride and Dark Knight, and while I didn't get to ride it back on my first visit in 2000, I did go through the queue of Batman and Robin: The Chiller and was okay with that.  

I second this. The only legacy Six Flags park I've been to is Great America and I was very impressed with the theming in the queue area for Batman the Ride. I didn't get to ride Dark Knight, but I imagine the theming was good in there too.

However, it does make me wonder why Batman in particular seems to get more attention in regards to theming compared to the other DC characters. Superman was pretty much just a parking lot coaster and Flash didn't really have much theming at all other than an image of him at the ride entrance. I personally wouldn't mind if we saw DC come to our park if the theming was consistent of that from what I saw of Batman at Great America, but not so much if there's not a lot of effort put into the other characters.

[silver2005]

11 minutes ago, WoodVengeance said:

I

However, it does make me wonder why Batman in particular seems to get more attention in regards to theming compared to the other DC characters. Superman was pretty much just a parking lot coaster and Flash didn't really have much theming at all other than an image of him at the ride entrance.

Batman has darker stories and themes to work from that, IMO, works better to add a dark ride or elaborate queue than other heroes.  I think with Flash, you could do some clever lighting packages to give the feeling of speed in queues or on ride.  Having the themes play in the station would help too, especially in the cases of Batman and Superman.

SFGAdv wasn't perfect on theming either.  Their Superman Ultimate Flight and, at the time, Bizarro just had a few images of comic panels and character history in their respective queues.   I do like what they did to retheme Bizarro back to Medusa though.  

[BlondyRidesOn]

In my opinion, I wouldn't mind a retheme of Action Zone. For a unique theme, they could make the area an old medieval Britain theme tied around Banshee (I know the Banshee comes from Irish folklore, but Ireland was once a colony under the British Empire). The rides could get a medieval or Camelot theme to them, such as renaming Drop Tower to Dungeon Drop and giving the area a fresh repaint, possibly surround the ride with a concrete façade made to look like stone much like the entrance to Adventure Express and Sol Spin for Adventure Port. 

Then again, I wouldn't mind a DC Universe overlay of Action Zone. With that said, Banshee is a well established coaster with a great theme and The Bat pays homage to the original coaster in the park's history, so they would probably need to be annexed into Adventure Port or the last bit of Oktoberfest. With that separation, the seating area in the center of Action Zone can be removed with seating for Ice Scream Zone dispersed around in other locations. A new entrance portal can be constructed in its place taking guests into the West side of Action Zone where the DC superheroes and villains greet guests. Drop Tower with a red blue and yellow color scheme and the Superman emblem 300 feet above Mason would look pretty sweet in my opinion.

I will agree to a point that IP at regional theme parks can be very hit or miss and in some cases tacky. But one must remember that Kings Island was built with IP as a selling point; Taft Broadcasting had purchased Hanna-Barbera Studios in 1966 and wanted to utilize it in the theme park market and Coney Island wanted to move away from the Kellogg Avenue site to grow and expand to compete with Fess Parker's proposed project in Boone County and approached Taft to incorporate their Hanna-Barbera license. If done tastefully, it can work well, and as long as International Street, Coney Mall, Rivertown, Adventure Port, Area 72 and the last bit of Oktoberfest are left to their unique themes, a DC area of the park in place of Action Zone is a welcome addition in my book.

[CoastersRZ]

Having visited Carowinds this year, I would say the theming in Aeronautica landing is pretty good.  The whole area had a nice feel, and had background music playing that made it feel like a Disney type experience.  Definitely a unique area.  I would hope that Action Zone gets some love at some point.  Obviously, the Vortex plot needs a replacement.  I still wouldn`t mind seeing a flat ride in Area 52, since both rides back there are 54" height requirments.

[johnjniehaus]

Regardless of what goes on the tomb raider building - top spin, mad house, rollercoaster, etc I'm looking at it as it'll be better than only using the building for a haunt maze that has seen better days 

[marineman]

On 11/2/2023 at 8:02 AM, RollerColt said:

Monopolies are never a good thing for the consumer. This is a win for Cedar Fair but a loss for us.

The news about '26 is likely going to make this point undeniably clear. 

[BeeastFarmer]

Cedar Point General Manager Carrie Boldman to step down - cleveland.com

 

Sounds fishy to me.  

[brenthodge]

23 hours ago, CoastersRZ said:

Having visited Carowinds this year, I would say the theming in Aeronautica landing is pretty good.  The whole area had a nice feel, and had background music playing that made it feel like a Disney type experience.  Definitely a unique area.  I would hope that Action Zone gets some love at some point.  Obviously, The Vortex plot needs a replacement.  I still wouldn`t mind seeing a flat ride in Area 52, since both rides back there are 54" height requirments.

With the new TV kiosk and the beverage stand leaning into the existing look of the area - I'd say Action Zone is not changing its core aesthetic. At this point I'd prefer Banshee get a retheme into something flight related (really all the tombstones can just be used as an upgrade to Haunt stuff, and the station - while halfway decent architecture - it's not something that couldn't be reworked. Lean into the "flight" look of Aeoronautica, add a few flats (that have already been designed for that) rename food and merch places and take out Amazon Falls for a "new" flight-related area. (Funny as you could rename The Bat FlightDeck and come full circle) 

[Orion-XL200]

1 hour ago, BeeastFarmer said:

Cedar Point General Manager Carrie Boldman to step down - cleveland.com

 

Sounds fishy to me.  

It's really not. Having spoken to Ms. Boldman numerous times over the past 2 years....she's excited to retire. She's a pretty awesome human!

[BeeastFarmer]

[TombRaiderFTW]

I think whatever happens at Great Adventure is going to be the defining event for me of Zimmerman's era at Cedar Fair/Six Flags.

I've kinda gotten the vibe for a few years that, post Ouimet, Cedar Fair never had a strong sense of direction. Ouimet attempted to aggressively attract families while improving the value of what your ticket got you, which is where semi-themed new rides, non-typical shows (e.g. Cirque Imagine and the like), LARP-based experiences like Ghost Town Alive, (a mild attempt at) new dark rides, and higher-quality food offerings came from. Zimmerman at CF seems to have lopped off the more pricey parts but otherwise attempted to keep that status quo. Then COVID happened, and I feel like the goal was to position the company for the merger through cutting costs to make the books look good.

At this point, I feel like they've announced the immediate closure of a third of Great Adventure. If Six Flags and Zimmerman are serious about bringing a quality experience (to stay in line with the Ouimet philosophy), in my opinion, we'll see more than just a coaster in that area. We'll see!

[BeeastFarmer]

Per Marcus LeShock on Facebook:

 

JUST IN: The Village of Gurnee Zoning Board has approved a request from Six Flags Great America to build solar shade structures in their parking lot.

These 6.4 megawatt solar systems would help lower Great America’s electric bill and provide shade for vehicles parked underneath. These structures would also have security cameras installed, along with LED lighting for nighttime hours.

They are designed by a company called Solar Optimum, who also installed these carports at Six Flags Magic Mountain in Valencia, California. This project now moves to the Gurnee Village Board for full approval. It’s unclear when the carports would be constructed and installed on the parking lot.

 

I wonder if the former Cedar Fair parks will see solar panels down the road?

[SmartCat7162]

4 hours ago, BeeastFarmer said:

Per Marcus LeShock on Facebook:

 

JUST IN: The Village of Gurnee Zoning Board has approved a request from Six Flags Great America to build solar shade structures in their parking lot.

These 6.4 megawatt solar systems would help lower Great America’s electric bill and provide shade for vehicles parked underneath. These structures would also have security cameras installed, along with LED lighting for nighttime hours.

They are designed by a company called Solar Optimum, who also installed these carports at Six Flags Magic Mountain in Valencia, California. This project now moves to the Gurnee Village Board for full approval. It’s unclear when the carports would be constructed and installed on the parking lot.

 

I wonder if the former Cedar Fair parks will see solar panels down the road?

That might mean they need to repave the parking lot so this would never happen.