Fixing the "Just Okay" Orion

[DispatchMaster]

19 hours ago, DonHelbig said:

I was there. Directly involved.

OK, fair enough. So then how were you able to decipher between the pandemic's impact on attendance versus impact of sentiment towards the ride? In other words, what percentage or portion of the depressed attendance could be attributed to each factor?

To be clear, it's not as though I disagree with the overall opinion, it's just the leap from that to effectively saying definitively that attendance and ROI were lower than expected solely or even primarily because of that opinion, when there was also a pandemic that prevented the park from opening for ~3 months during the ride's debut year, and limited attendance and ride capacity thereafter. I appreciate the fact that you work in the industry, but I'm also skeptical of the claim, and "trust me" does little to dispel my skepticism.

18 hours ago, DonHelbig said:

it’s missing an element that Fury 325 and Diamondback both have that riders absolutely love about those rides: an abundance of airtime.

MF at CP, listed at 6 in that very list, also lacks abundant airtime, FWIW.

[DonHelbig]

13 minutes ago, DispatchMaster said:

I appreciate the fact that you work in the industry, but I'm also skeptical of the claim, and "trust me" does little to dispel my skepticism.

Okay—keep the skepticism if it helps you win your day. 
 

 

 

[rlentless]

It is a great ride.  I just think it fell into the trap that we were expecting the next best GIGA as far as height, length, etc..  Just seemed like each GIGA, at the time, was bigger than the previous install.  So we kind of thought it would be 330' or 335' to beat the last record.

I can remember in the message board here on KIC and someone got the leaked blue prints and the disappointment based on the numbers that the lift hill was probably around 280' and the track length was so short.  Seemed the air was let out with all the previous hoopla.  Starting the the word GIGA written in the snow.

So it was often referred to GIGA-light or "Is it even a real GIGA".  But at the end of the day, it is a world class ride in one of the best Amusement parks in America.

[Orion-XL200]

And those who refer to it as GIGA-Light or "Is it even a real GIGA" are those who post on online forums/thoosie pages/etc. 

I have yet to hear average day-to-day guests say either about Orion.....only are those who are you can spot from a mile away as an "enthusiast." 

 

 

[KI Guy]

2 hours ago, DonHelbig said:

Okay—keep the skepticism if it helps you win your day. 

What evidence do you have that he has not forgotten how to speak English in the 24 minutes between your posts? Next time I'm going to need you to find evidence that he still does before posting a reply. Do better.

[Outdoor Man]

1 hour ago, DispatchMaster said:

OK, fair enough. So then how were you able to decipher between the pandemic's impact on attendance versus impact of sentiment towards the ride? In other words, what percentage or portion of the depressed attendance could be attributed to each factor?

To be clear, it's not as though I disagree with the overall opinion, it's just the leap from that to effectively saying definitively that attendance and ROI were lower than expected solely or even primarily because of that opinion, when there was also a pandemic that prevented the park from opening for ~3 months during the ride's debut year, and limited attendance and ride capacity thereafter. I appreciate the fact that you work in the industry, but I'm also skeptical of the claim, and "trust me" does little to dispel my skepticism.

MF at CP, listed at 6 in that very list, also lacks abundant airtime, FWIW.

the same way that 47 years after it's construction, The Beast is still a top 3 (maybe even 1 or 2) at KI- and is usually featured on a majority of their marketing pieces. It always has a wait, high on guest reviews.... and that popularity has endured the pandemic, droughts, hot weather, terrible summers, bad ride attendants, GMs, and countless recessions. 

It is a a textbook definition of a "Great Coaster".  It is remarkable, out of the box, and not available anywhere else.  People come, sometimes specifically, to ride the legendary Beast.

[RollerColt]

2 hours ago, DispatchMaster said:

OK, fair enough. So then how were you able to decipher between the pandemic's impact on attendance versus impact of sentiment towards the ride? In other words, what percentage or portion of the depressed attendance could be attributed to each factor?

To be clear, it's not as though I disagree with the overall opinion, it's just the leap from that to effectively saying definitively that attendance and ROI were lower than expected solely or even primarily because of that opinion, when there was also a pandemic that prevented the park from opening for ~3 months during the ride's debut year, and limited attendance and ride capacity thereafter. I appreciate the fact that you work in the industry, but I'm also skeptical of the claim, and "trust me" does little to dispel my skepticism.

MF at CP, listed at 6 in that very list, also lacks abundant airtime, FWIW.

Companies collect tons of data in relation to their product. For example Kroger keeps tabs on every interaction a customer has, tracks data on trends... follows what the customer is buying down to the microscopic level. 

They look at analytics in terms of attendance, and they also use surveys a lot. All companies do this. Is it really that much of a stretch to you that Kings Island would take a vetted interest in consumer data in relation to opinion on the biggest investment in the park's history? 

[Klabergian Empire]

On 1/22/2026 at 2:49 PM, DonHelbig said:

It’s not because the height is only 287 that Orion ranked outside the top 40 in the 2025 Golden Ticket Awards for Best Steel Coasters. It’s not because of the length of the ride. It’s not because it opened during the pandemic. It’s because it’s missing an element that Fury 325 and Diamondback both have that riders absolutely love about those rides: an abundance of airtime. If Orion had Diamondback’s airtime, the sentiment about the ride is dramatically different. More parkgoers would be talking about it as one of the best. 

Very much agree.

Personally, I would say that the 5,300ft of track on Orion doesn't do a whole lot. Orion isn't a terrible ride. I enjoy it for what it is and it's a lot of fun. But a decent part of the reason I consider Diamondback, for example, to be much better than Orion is because Diamondback does more with its layout. Orion is 39ft longer than Diamondback. But Diamondback does more with 39ft less track than Orion (I know 39ft isn't that big of a difference, but still).

Here is a question regarding the airtime aspect: Would adding more moments of airtime to the layout really make Orion better? The way I personally see it is that adding more moments of airtime to Orion would make it even more similar to Diamondback than it already is. Sure, adding more airtime to Orion would improve the ride experience, absolutely. But in that scenario Orion would just be Diamondback but with different trains and be just a little taller and faster. Furthermore, still on that scenario, what would even be the point of building Orion? Just to have a taller and faster version of Diamondback? At that point, Kings Island would be paying nearly double for Orion what they already have with Diamondback. 

[Losantiville Mining Co.]

I see now where I was getting confused. I keep reading about ROI and take it to mean official numbers like attendance and ticket sales while others are talking about how Orion doesn't "live up to what it should have" in guest sentiment.

The argument of enthusiasts vs. general public is well-beat, but I'd like to propose another question. If the upper management had the data on how well their 4 other giga coasters had done overall and what made guests enjoy them, why did they approve a design that a) barely reached the "correct" height to qualify as a giga, and b) did not include enough airtime/speed/forces? Guests enjoy the speed and forces of Millennium Force and Fury 325. The general public doesn't enjoy the forces of Pantherian as much, but the height and speed are still there. Also, would a few more feet on the drop really have made it any more intimidating for families? If Millennium Force can do so much with its 300' drop, why was Orion designed with the same 300' drop and yet apparently does so little? I'd love to read some thoughts as to how Orion could've had more airtime while only having 100' less track length than Leviathan. 

I'd argue that Carowinds was in the same "family park" boat as Kings Island before they added Fury 325. Kings Island had an answer for most of their large coasters before Fury 325 was added as well with Afterburn/Banshee, Intimidator (Thunder Striker)/Diamondback, Thunder Road/The Racer, Nighthawk/Firehawk, Carolina Cyclone/KI's Vortex, and even Carolina Cobra (Flying Cobras)/Invertigo. Carowinds didn't have an answer for The Beast and Kings Island didn't have an answer for Carowinds' stand-up Vortex. What factors made one family park so different from the other? Is Kings Island going to continue to receive middle-of-the-road thrill coasters because it's a "family park", despite largely having the same lineup as Carowinds? If the guest sentiment is that Diamondback is better than Orion, why do we keep saying that the next KI coaster should be a family coaster with examples that pale in comparison to Diamondback? 

Y'all can tell me that the overall cost was prohibitive (it was) and that the company didn't want to upstage Millennium Force and Fury 325 (that probably wasn't a factor but go off I guess), but I feel like there were more factors that led to Orion being stunted than have been put together in one post. I really want to understand all of the factors while unpacking these arguments and questions. I'll also maintain my thought that adding a nice inversion to Orion's layout would've made it more interesting for families and enthusiasts alike while differentiating itself from other gigas. 

[Losantiville Mining Co.]

4 hours ago, Klabergian Empire said:

Here is a question regarding the airtime aspect: Would adding more moments of airtime to the layout really make Orion better? The way I personally see it is that adding more moments of airtime to Orion would make it even more similar to Diamondback than it already is. Sure, adding more airtime to Orion would improve the ride experience, absolutely. But in that scenario Orion would just be Diamondback but with different trains and be just a little taller and faster. Furthermore, still on that scenario, what would even be the point of building Orion? Just to have a taller and faster version of Diamondback? At that point, Kings Island would be paying nearly double for Orion what they already have with Diamondback. 

You hit the nail right on the head before I could finish my post tonight. Orion with more airtime is just a faster Diamondback with different trains. A lot of folks online already compare the two heavily, so making them more alike would've only made it more underwhelming for guests IMO. Leviathan and Behemoth at Canada's Wonderland are in a very similar boat to Orion and Diamondback, and yet aren't as similar. The biggest difference between Leviathan and Orion seems to be the layout with the former's L-shape and the latter's straight out-and-back shape. They both have a near-90 degree wave turn, some airtime hills, a similar turnaround, and a tall brake run. Leviathan doesn't have a helix and Orion has one less airtime hill. I wonder if Orion could've done better if it was more L-shaped and 100' longer?

[Klabergian Empire]

This might be a hot take, but hear me out.

I would argue that a way to improve Orion is for Orion to not have been built by B&M. Many people agree that Fury 325 is the best coaster built by B&M. It's easy to compare Orion and Fury 325 for the most part because they're built by the same manufacturer. I would say that's why many people believed Orion was going to be another Fury 325 when it was announced. If another manufacturer was hired to build what would be "Orion" then boom. It would make it much harder to compare it to the other B&M Giga's (at least). 

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

^^Not that many people believed Orion would be another Fury 325 when it was announced. Even when the layout got leaked and people with engineering minds and Nolimits2 accounts mocked up the layout most people knew it was going to be more like Leviathan than Fury. Most people thought it would be another Fury back when the KI giga was just fanboy talk on forums and subreddits mainly bc CF historically outside of I-305 made their next giga taller than the previous one and loved to shoot for records. So that's kinda why it caught many people off guard when they decided to go giga at KI, but chose not to go bigger than the previous ones. 

[DonHelbig]

Make all the excuses you want, but the bottom line is the ride did not deliver the ROI the way the park expected it would. 

 

[Gordon Bombay]

Biggest fanny pack measuring contest this forum has seen in a long time.

[Klabergian Empire]

2 hours ago, DonHelbig said:

Make all the excuses you want, but the bottom line is the ride did not deliver the ROI the way the park expected it would. 

Absolutely. Would you agree that this is part of the reason Kings Island hasn't added a major thrill ride since?

[IndyGuy4KI]

2 hours ago, Gordon Bombay said:

Biggest fanny pack measuring contest this forum has seen in a long time.

Are you sure that's not cargo pockets? 🤷

[DonHelbig]

5 hours ago, Klabergian Empire said:

Absolutely. Would you agree that this is part of the reason Kings Island hasn't added a major thrill ride since?

No. There were and still are other things the park has needed since Orion debuted. 

[Orion-XL200]

People always bring up Fury 325 in comparison to Orion on forums and Facebook...to me, Fury ranks lower than Orion (I've said this before) because after the tunnel it's like they tried to figure out how they could get back to the station and what they came up with did nothing for me...made it feel less complete as a whole ride. Whereas, Orion feels complete. 

 

On 1/23/2026 at 8:21 AM, jbeast said:

 Out of the hundreds of times I have ridden it, no one riding with me has been disappointed afterwards. It's just a lot of fun and I am happy to have it in my home park.

It's as if those on forums and facebook pages (yeah I'm calling out my page) are the ones who overanalyze and become unenthused as coaster enthusiasts when it's something they personally don't like.