Top Thrill Dragster Incident

[malem]

Here's the full report referenced in the article. Some images in the report are disturbing.

https://www.scribd.com/document/559810629/2022-02-18-Cedar-Point-Memo-Report-Attachments-Top-Thrill-Dragster

[BoddaH1994]

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

This is honestly giving me Son of Beast flashbacks from the early 2010s and Volcano from 2018/19. I'd hate to see it go, but with all the downtime it's had over it's lifespan, I wouldn't be shocked if they remove it sadly. Hopefully they'd replace it ASAP to makeup for the loss of such an iconic coaster. My prayers continue to go out to the victim and her family as well as the Cedar Point team. I can't imagine how hard it must be to make decisions like this. 

[BoddaH1994]

35 minutes ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

This is honestly giving me Son of Beast flashbacks from the early 2010s and Volcano from 2018/19. I'd hate to see it go, but with all the downtime it's had over it's lifespan, I wouldn't be shocked if they remove it sadly. Hopefully they'd replace it ASAP to makeup for the loss of such an iconic coaster. My prayers continue to go out to the victim and her family as well as the Cedar Point team. I can't imagine how hard it must be to make decisions like this. 

Yeah, this is starting to get a bit scary. 

[Winterfestguy]

Doesn’t surprise me to see it closed all of 2022 (and maybe beyond).  With all the lawyers and likely several potential lawsuits, it could take years to resolve them.  It certainly does remind one of the Son of Beast situation and tear down years later after final lawsuit settlements were finally reached.  

[Kenban]

I find this report strange.  First page says “The purpose of ODA’s investigation was not to determine the cause of the accident.”  Then who will be?  Whose job is it to fix the design to make sure it never happens again?  Is Intamin going to do it or would Cedar Fair have to hire an outside engineering firm.  Unless the park already told the state it’s not reopening.

Really surprised at the lack of any recommendations, engineering analysis, etc.  It’s a 620 page long report of fluff.  The majority of the report is just copies of inspection and employee reports that were collected.  It has to be one of the worst accident reports I have ever seen.

Why is there nothing from Intamin in the report?  I do not see anything about changes to inspections, design changes, etc.  I am really questioning the future of the ride after seeing the report.

[KIghostguy]

50 minutes ago, Kenban said:

I find this report strange.  First page says “The purpose of ODA’s investigation was not to determine the cause of the accident.”  Then who will be?  Whose job is it to fix the design to make sure it never happens again?  Is Intamin going to do it or would Cedar Fair have to hire an outside engineering firm.  Unless the park already told the state it’s not reopening.

Really surprised at the lack of any recommendations, engineering analysis, etc.  It’s a 620 page long report of fluff.  The majority of the report is just copies of inspection and employee reports that were collected.  It has to be one of the worst accident reports I have ever seen.

Why is there nothing from Intamin in the report?  I do not see anything about changes to inspections, design changes, etc.  I am really questioning the future of the ride after seeing the report.

I agree with you. When the Flight Commander investigation concluded, the ODA had a press conference going over their findings of exactly what happened and publicly ascribed the blame to Intamin. I wonder why in this case they were only looking at whether or not Cedar Point was negligent?

[BeeastFarmer]

I don't know if ODA and CF subscribe to the "Swarm" mentality with incidents, but it has taken some industries by storm.  Basically, when something serious happens, they seek to gather all information via incident reports, eyewitness reports, physical evidence  etc.  They seek to gather all this information via "blameless reporting" so as not to intimidate truth telling.  They are doing a root cause analysis to determine what happened and why.  The goal is to find weak links and prevent the same incident from happening again.

I think as time passes, the blame game is diminished.  I don't want to think ODA wants to seem tto be over regulating private industry.  

I did not read 620 pages of the report, but I did see the emails between CP and Sandor at Intamin asking for reduced winter tear down on the Intamin Coasters.

[CorkscrewMcPuke]

5 hours ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

This is honestly giving me Son of Beast flashbacks from the early 2010s and Volcano from 2018/19. I'd hate to see it go, but with all the downtime it's had over it's lifespan, I wouldn't be shocked if they remove it sadly. Hopefully they'd replace it ASAP to makeup for the loss of such an iconic coaster. My prayers continue to go out to the victim and her family as well as the Cedar Point team. I can't imagine how hard it must be to make decisions like this. 

That's precisely what came to my mind. As sad as it is, a coaster as unique and extreme as this was never going to last indefinitely. This much negative press and downtime make it even more of a candidate to hit the chopping block. At least Gemini seems relatively safe for now.

[super7]

I don’t know why they would open it again.  
 

With the incident, no insurance is going touch it unless the walkways and queues are fully protected (catch fences)

It’s closure last year did not affect attendance.    It’s doesn’t make sense to have the additional cost, maintenance and liability for a ride that won’t effect attendance much.

Cedar Point has to use their space wisely   This space would be better used for a reliable, high capacity, more re rideable attraction  

 

 

 

 

[disco2000]

Regarding insurance, it has been stated here repeatedly over the years, shows up in SEC annual disclosure reports, and even in this accident report itself that the park is self-insured... Jake from State Farm has no say in the matter LOL. 

Similar to SOB, short of the state not providing a permit to re-open the ride, the fate of this ride will be up to park management as they weigh all the factors, from a marketing and public relations perspective, to an operation and maintenance perspective, and everything in between.  Now certainly the risk of another accident and them having to self-pay for the resulting injuries and lawsuits will come into that decision, but it won't be because Jake says he won't insure them if the re-open it...

 

 

 

[BoddaH1994]

I’d say there’s a 51% chance that it will quietly reopen during the 2022 season. There’s a 49% chance that it doesn’t reopen at all and it’s done. That’s my prediction. 

[disco2000]

16 minutes ago, BoddaH1994 said:

I’d say there’s a 51% chance that it will quietly reopen during the 2022 season. There’s a 49% chance that it doesn’t reopen at all and it’s done. That’s my prediction. 

One has to wonder though, that even though the state did not put fault on anyone, why did Kingda Ka keep running and not shut down as typically similar rides will shut down, if even for just a day, in the event of something this severe?  Think of our Drop Tower closing for the KK incident.

In other words, what makes this failure of that part so unique and site specific to CP that Kingda Ka doesn't have to worry about it?  Other than the queue lines are not in proximity, it could still result in physical damage. 

Maybe the differences in queue locations is all the difference, or maybe there are directives from Intamin to Six Flags that has been able to be kept under wraps?

[BoddaH1994]

7 hours ago, disco2000 said:

One has to wonder though, that even though the state did not put fault on anyone, why did Kingda Ka keep running and not shut down as typically similar rides will shut down, if even for just a day, in the event of something this severe?  Think of our Drop Tower closing for the KK incident.

In other words, what makes this failure of that part so unique and site specific to CP that Kingda Ka doesn't have to worry about it?  Other than the queue lines are not in proximity, it could still result in physical damage. 

Maybe the differences in queue locations is all the difference, or maybe there are directives from Intamin to Six Flags that has been able to be kept under wraps?

I think it’s a PR thing, at least moving forward. Either they can have headlines saying “Top Thrill Dragster, the ride that nearly killed that last, is reopening” or they can open the ride quietly in early June after people have moved on. 

[coaster sally]

18 hours ago, disco2000 said:

One has to wonder though, that even though the state did not put fault on anyone, why did Kingda Ka keep running and not shut down as typically similar rides will shut down, if even for just a day, in the event of something this severe?  Think of our Drop Tower closing for the KK incident.

In other words, what makes this failure of that part so unique and site specific to CP that Kingda Ka doesn't have to worry about it?  Other than the queue lines are not in proximity, it could still result in physical damage. 

Maybe the differences in queue locations is all the difference, or maybe there are directives from Intamin to Six Flags that has been able to be kept under wraps?

Maybe it's a CP maintenance thing.  

 

Cedar Point police is not trusted by the public either.

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/02/top-thrill-dragster-incident-prompts-debate-over-cedar-point-police-are-they-bound-by-ohio-public-records-law-sandusky-register-asks-court-to-decide.html

[disco2000]

It seems Six Flags has more issues than Cedar Fair (or maybe they just make the media more often when something goes wrong) and the reputation is Cedar Fair is more maintenance driven than Six Flags, especially when something like this happens 

https://www.nj.com/monmouth/2018/12/familys-christmas-card-features-moms-scary-six-flags-coaster-malfunction.html

But yeah it certainly seems to be leaning towards a CP specific issue despite no blame being offered...

 

 

[Browntggrr]

While there was nothing found in the state's investigation that CP did anything wrong, it does not mean that the legal headaches end for CP- especially since this is not the first incident of things arbitrarily coming off the rear of the trains on the brake run. 

TTD closing for the year is not a surprise.  The parts/ trains of the ride not included in the investigation likely sat untouched since the accident occurred.  This also means any physical reengineering (and obvious testing) could not take place.  The last report of the victim is she was still considered critical which also plays into the decision to shutter TTD for 2022.

The other piece of information that is concerning: there was another flag plate on a different train found to be loose & all train brackets had signs of wear.  Showing wear on a part that is not designed to come in contact with anything raises many questions.

Combine that information with the theming coming off in 2003, on the brake run as well and it shows a trend of what appear to me enough vibration on the end of train to have things loosen/ brake off.  These combined incidents point to a design flaw that needs obvious correcting.  What that correction needs to be is a major question mark as it may not be financially feasible to correct or even, more importantly, it may mean such a fix may change the ride enough that it cannot operate as intended- think 1981 Bat with non-angled track.

It would be interesting to know the forces on the trains during KK's brake run after the 129' hill compared to TTD's straightaway.

[BoddaH1994]

Another article about TTD:

https://sanduskyregister.com/news/371893/dragster-needs-repairs/?fbclid=IwAR2vWKsLvpkGW1gTuZuulh2EC2XqBul12BYlRLpsdW2WYUI7Uv0frNVGsiI

[Browntggrr]

According to CP Rundown on FB, there has been reports of recent activity around TTD:

- there is a JLG near the brake run

- some landscape bushes have been removed near TTD that can be seen from ID

- some blue spray paint markings have been seen in the midway North of TTD station & near TTD photo booth. (blue paint typically means water lines)

- the tower lights were on for the first time last night

These observations could mean a variety of things from moving the queue line to removing the ride.

[ziplock]

The small bit of hope in me is saying that the water line markings are for fans the spray water in a rerouted queue line.  But I know how easy it is to perceive things in a way that is in accordance with what we hope the outcome will be. I'm racking my brain trying to think of what another use would be for water markings at locations so close to Dragster's station- especially if demolition plans are in the works for the near future.

I will say though, that it does seem odd that they would be lighting up the tower and drawing attention to the ride only to turn around and announce its removal.  

I'd say that the JLG lift could very well just be there for a convenient parking place, so I'm not reading too far into that one.

CP really knows how to drive its fanbase insane. 

[SonofBaconator]

If they find a way to reopen it, I wouldn’t have a huge announcement on it as that would possibly draw attention to the latest incident. Instead I’d add it back onto the website and relabel it on the map for next season and leave it at that. @BoddaH1994 might have a better response to that but from a PR standpoint I feel like a quiet reopen would be preferred as opposed to a full blown announcement that they got it back up and running.

[Browntggrr]

Knowing CF has distanced themselves from Intamin coasters for 10+ years who made modifications?  Intamin?  Someone else?  Were there even modifications to the launch/ brake run made?

Thinking back to SoB getting modified- If it was someone else other than Intamin what assurances are there that the modifications are safe?

Definitely more questions than answers.

I still believe TTD will be removed, but if CF can find a way to safely & consistently operate TTD, than we all benefit.

[silver2005]

I believe Intamin can hit 120 on LSMs now as a possible option, but the reputation of Intamin still lingers.

[SonofBaconator]

5 hours ago, Browntggrr said:

Knowing CF has distanced themselves from Intamin coasters for 10+ years who made modifications?  Intamin?  Someone else?  Were there even modifications to the launch/ brake run made?

Thinking back to SoB getting modified- If it was someone else other than Intamin what assurances are there that the modifications are safe?

Definitely more questions than answers.

I still believe TTD will be removed, but if CF can find a way to safely & consistently operate TTD, than we all benefit.

I’m not sure I’d be going back to the manufacturer who designed the ride for modifications when the relationship has been more than distant.

When you have the second tallest and 3rd fastest roller coaster it the world, it draws a lot of attention when there’s a malfunction or an incident; I believe Kinzel regretted having the ride built in the 1st place. The problem with huge record breaking attractions is that they come at the cost of maintenance. If you look at Red Force, it has LSM launches as opposed to the hydraulic system TDD and KK have. 

The current technology has become somewhat obsolete and I think more people would rather it replaced with something more reliable than just having it SBNO or having it run but experience heavy downtime.
 

 

[BoddaH1994]

6 hours ago, SonofBaconator said:

If they find a way to reopen it, I wouldn’t have a huge announcement on it as that would possibly draw attention to the latest incident. Instead I’d add it back onto the website and relabel it on the map for next season and leave it at that. @BoddaH1994 might have a better response to that but from a PR standpoint I feel like a quiet reopen would be preferred as opposed to a full blown announcement that they got it back up and running.

I always thought they’d do a quiet reopening in the middle of this season. I doubt that now. Perhaps they are making modifications and using its reopening as a marketability factor.

6 hours ago, Browntggrr said:

Knowing CF has distanced themselves from Intamin coasters for 10+ years who made modifications?  Intamin?  Someone else?  Were there even modifications to the launch/ brake run made?

Thinking back to SoB getting modified- If it was someone else other than Intamin what assurances are there that the modifications are safe?

Definitely more questions than answers.

I still believe TTD will be removed, but if CF can find a way to safely & consistently operate TTD, than we all benefit.

If someone modifies it I’d bet you dollars to donuts that Intamin has a big hand in it. Cedar Fair still works with them quite a bit, despite not having purchased any new rides for a while.

[ziplock]

In case people haven't seen, there have been more pictures posted on that same CP Rundown page on FB that show a heck of a lot more markings made near Top Thrill Dragster, as well as one in the station. Some are pink, some red, some yellow, some orange, more blue, so take that as you will.

[jsus]

9 minutes ago, ziplock said:

so take that as you will.

... that they're marking the underground utilities, in consideration for digging up....  something, somewhere?

[ziplock]

An astute point.  Indicating that something will indeed be happening around somewhere near Dragster… at some point. 

[jsus]

5 hours ago, ziplock said:

An astute point.  Indicating that something will indeed be happening around somewhere near Dragster… at some point. 

Not really sure the point of the smug reply.  That's the only conclusion that can be drawn.  There have been times in the past where utility markings were spotted far away from any work that we were made aware of.

The future looks bleak for Top Thrill Dragster, but utility markings, lifts moving around, and power to the lights on the tower aren't the definitive source on that.

[ziplock]

No smugness here- I thought you were making a joke with your comment, given that we are all very much aware that the markings are present for the purpose of excavation.

The purpose of my post was merely to point out that more activity has taken place on the Dragster station and queue area, which has sat dormant for nearly a year.  And my "take that as you will statement", was more so in reference to what this activity may mean for any speculation regarding the future of the ride.

Clearly there are no definitive sources on the matter, but I think that markings all over the vicinity, including IN the station, are an indication of changes being done to the ride in the near future. Whether that be demolition or renovation- none of us are really sure. But the discussion of these possibilities IS the topic at hand, isn't it?

Ok back to lurking for another 13 years.