2023 Live Entertainment Discussions

[BoddaH1994]

On 5/25/2023 at 1:34 PM, IBEW_Sparky said:

Am I the only one on tjhe forums who would much rather see the return of Cirque to the Theater in some form?  PTE was and is a one and done for me, last year was enough.

I think the problem with Cirque was the same as the problem with the ice skating shows:

Year 1: This new show is awesome!

Year 2: Sweet! The new show is back!

Year 3: Awesome! New cirque/skating show

Year 4: Oh, I suppose thats coming back 

Year 5: The new show wasn’t as good as the last two

Year 6: Eh, I’m cirque’d out…

Too much of anything can be bad…

[disco2000]

15 minutes ago, BoddaH1994 said:

I think the problem with Cirque was the same as the problem with the ice skating shows:

Year 1: This new show is awesome!

Year 2: Sweet! The new show is back!

Year 3: Awesome! New cirque/skating show

Year 4: Oh, I suppose thats coming back 

Year 5: The new show wasn’t as good as the last two

Year 6: Eh, I’m cirque’d out…

Too much of anything can be bad…

 

Canadian's don't get tired of Cirque 

[IndyGuy4KI]

See a preview of Off The Rails!

 

[jdf21972]

Saw the 1:30 Opening Saturday show and they have lots of fun energy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Timchat2]

Off the Rails is still just as fun as last season. It's great to have the show back!

In light of the live entertainment cuts at other Cedar Fair parks this season (especially Cedar Point) , we're fortunate to have so much entertainment at the park with Grand Carnivale still on the way. Doing an informal count it appears that Kings Island possibly has more total performers than Cedar Point in their major productions for 2023, which is something I never would have expected.

[brenthodge]

6 hours ago, Timchat2 said:

Off the Rails is still just as fun as last season. It's great to have the show back!

In light of the live entertainment cuts at other Cedar Fair parks this season (especially Cedar Point) , we're fortunate to have so much entertainment at the park with Grand Carnivale still on the way. Doing an informal count it appears that Kings Island possibly has more total performers than Cedar Point in their major productions for 2023, which is something I never would have expected.

Agree-we even have more going on than Carrowinds-and it’s their time to celebrate 50. I definitely think they are pursuing a different strategy with KI these days as to “overall experience” even the nightly closing show is a lot for just a regional “AnnualPass locals only” park. I feel like we are very well rounded spot now, and could even be seen as “destination” again one of these days soon. 

[Timchat2]

Carowinds' 50th (along with Worlds of Fun, which is actually getting an okay number of shows for a smaller park in 2023) came around just as Cedar Fair has been tightening the purse strings, so the anniversaries this year probably aren't going to be as elaborate as what Kings Island and Cedar Point received.

The fact that Kings Island has retained so many performers for this season shows that someone at the park is fighting the good fight and sees live entertainment as something important to the attraction mix. Again, I wouldn't have expected that even five years ago. Hopefully it will continue in years to come.

[brenthodge]

1 hour ago, Timchat2 said:

Carowinds' 50th (along with Worlds of Fun, which is actually getting an okay number of shows for a smaller park in 2023) came around just as Cedar Fair has been tightening the purse strings, so the anniversaries this year probably aren't going to be as elaborate as what Kings Island and Cedar Point received.

The fact that Kings Island has retained so many performers for this season shows that someone at the park is fighting the good fight and sees live entertainment as something important to the attraction mix. Again, I wouldn't have expected that even five years ago. Hopefully it will continue in years to come.

I'd also venture that in the grand scheme of Theme Park history and especially Cedar Fair history, those two parks have a pretty significant place (more than others) anyway with CP being 150 and KI building on the legacy of Coney, which was widely viewed to be one of the country's finest parks - in addition to being CPs "rival" in Ohio for a long time before being part of the same family. They really deserved the all out that they received.

[super7]

Kings Dominion has

Retrospect but not starting until Carnivale.    

Let’s Get Wild but only twice each night.   Not starting until mid month.   It’s a decent show but they have it on the pavement.   It’s awful for the performers and crowd.  
 

And a kiddie Peanuts show.  
 

Their theater (identical to KI) sits empty another year.   The stadium sits empty.   
 

The new KD VP will run that place in the ground even further.  She loves to cost cut at the expense of the customer.    With nearby BG adding coasters, having a full entertainment lineup and having b transportation rides for non thrill seekers 
 

KD coaster collection is mediocre and not much to do for non thrill seekers.   It’s a beautiful park, much more thank KI, but KI is run so much better. 

[Timchat2]

Busch Gardens Williamsburg has mostly been holding up on entertainment despite the ups and downs of its parent company. You'd hope that nearby competition would keep Kings Dominion devoted to a strong lineup.

I know some weren't too excited about the general repeat of the (very solid) Golden Celebration offerings, but as we're seeing with the other parks we could have faced some significant cuts at Kings Island as well.

[BoddaH1994]

7 hours ago, super7 said:

Kingdoms Dominion has

Retrospect but not starting until Carnivale.    

Let’s Get Wild but only twice each night.   Not starting until mid month.   It’s a decent show but they have it on the pavement.   It’s awful for the performers and crowd.  
 

And a kiddie Peanuts show.  
 

Their theater (identical to KI) sits empty another year.   The stadium sits empty.   
 

The new KD VP will run that place in the ground even further.  She loves to cost cut at the expense of the customer.    With nearby BG adding coasters, having a full entertainment lineup and having b transportation rides for non thrill seekers 
 

KD coaster collection is mediocre and not much to do for non thrill seekers.   It’s a beautiful park, much more thank KI, but KI is run so much better. 

Almost certainly not her decision to have those cuts. Every park wants more shows, more rides, etc. It’s another party that gives them the budget to make their decisions. 
 

I also suspect that they are opening all year on a budget that is similar to when they were seasonal. 

[BeeastFarmer]

3 minutes ago, BoddaH1994 said:

Almost certainly not her decision to have those cuts. Every park wants more shows, more rides, etc. It’s another party that gives them the budget to make their decisions. 
 

I also suspect that they are opening all year on a budget that is similar to when they were seasonal. 

Fortunately, they are heavily investing it seems in their communication department. I think you see that brand loyalty is increasing at KD and a lot of the negativity is decreasing. A simple thing such as ERT with Grizzly, promoted well, has laid the foundation. That's key in that market.  I think the local media has been key too.  Silence is not Golden. 

[BoddaH1994]

23 minutes ago, BeeastFarmer said:

Fortunately, they are heavily investing it seems in their communication department. I think you see that brand loyalty is increasing at KD and a lot of the negativity is decreasing. A simple thing such as ERT with Grizzly, promoted well, has laid the foundation. That's key in that market.  I think the local media has been key too.  Silence is not Golden. 

Completely agree. 
 

You’d be surprised how beneficial a relationship with the community, media and fan base can be.

How how non-beneficial it is when those relationships are neglected or destroyed… 

[BeeastFarmer]

As enthusiasts, we often remind ourselves that the parks are not there at the pleasure of ourselves. They are there for other demographics. However, My enthusiasm for the park has led to at least five people buying gold passes. They are not enthusiasts but they see my social media posts and they hear me talking incessantly. There are also people who have made day trips.  

I also find it very interesting that there is no mention of Kings Island in the traditional media in my market. I see Dollywood, Kentucky, Kingdom, Newport aquarium and even universal. They are all getting the word out. I don't know. Maybe Kings Island has decided to rest on its laurels with traditional media around here. I'm not sure. But no one around here has mentioned anything about the new rides or the new area at Kings Island like they have in the past with mystic, timbers and Banshee.  I think that's directly related to a lack of exposure.

[robintodd]

Let me start out again by saying that in my opinion PTE is the best overall show ever in the history of KI (my optinion, your mileage may vary  )  That being said I saw PTE yesterday and noticed that during Happy Feet there was an audible tap track playing over the dancers.  As a tapper myself I found it to be disturbing as volume of the track drowned out the "live" tap dancers (who are excellent).  Originally last year I suggested they mic the stage from underneth to get a little more volume and I think at the end of the season they seemed to be doing that.

I went up to the sound guys and asked them saying that I wanted to hear the dancers.  One of the guys told me "it is a recording of the dance by the cast".  The problem with that is it sounds like only 1 dancer was recorded.  There is a definite difference between 1 dancer and 8 when it comes to tap.  I'm not saying they needed a recording of 8 dancers but at least 3 would have made a difference and taken away the "solo" feel of the recorded track.  Tap is a very specific type of dance in that you can see the feet hitting the floor.  "Overdubbing" the sound of the dancers takes away from the live aspect of the piece in my opinion.  

I also noticed that some of the chorus parts were overdubbed also.  Maybe they were last year and they just didn't have the sound adjusted right but I was under the impression that last year EVERYTHING was live.  It was obvious when it was being played because it came in louder when they punched it in.

That being said the Hilda understudy did a great job and they did overdub just the 2-3 falseto parts of the character.  It was pretty seemless (nice job by the audio tech) and didn't bother me as I could understand how not everyone can do it the way the usual person who plays Hilda does.

Again the show is still fantastic I wanted to point out that (again in my opinion) the new overdubbing takes away from the live aspect of the talents of this extremely talented cast.  It also may have played a part that on a non-busy day with the rain in the forecast the theatre was only about 1/3 full.  I could understand overdubbing with a full house but then again I was there for the last 2 shows last year and noticed no sound issues at all.  In my opinion, keep it simple and keep it live and loose the overdubbing when not needed.

One last thing.  The new dialog that took the place of "blasting your boo's or something" is interesting and I'm thinking may be a hint for next season.  When the Phantom says "is that boo thing still there" it almost seems like he expects it not be there.  Like it's going to be replaced.  After seeing the interview with Mike Koontz and how he stated the plans for Adventure Port were thorwn together in a year it make me wonder if something else was planned for this year and because of supply chain issues or other delays that had to be put off till next year.  Hense "is that boo thing still there".  If we do get a new Phantom Theatre in place of Boo Blasters next year and they do the PTE show for one final year the dialoge could still be the same and instead of the audience saying "yes" a resounding "no" would be heard.  It would be really neat to have a show foreshadow a new attraction.  We'll have to wait and see.

[brenthodge]

I feel like there’s definitely something in the works. Interesting that PT was the only “rides on the past” called out in AdventureAwaits. Too many “coincidental hints at this point to not be “something” 

[IndyGuy4KI]

A look at RetroSpect

 

 

[FUN&ONLY!]

If Phantom Theater does come back, I really hope Kings Island does it right. I also hope the area around a new Phantom Theater gets overhauled as well. While some might want it to be where Boo Blasters is for nostalgia reasons, I do not think it matters where a new version of Phantom Theater goes. Phantom Theater really does not fit the theme of any area of the park (unless Kings Island decides to make Action Zone a haunted-themed section of the park). I would almost prefer it to be placed in a different section of the park and not its original location because I would rather see there be more indoor rides (even if one of them is Boo Blasters). Also, areas of the park like Rivertown could really benefit from new life if a new Phantom Theater was placed inside The Crypt building and the surrounding area was revamped. Finally, the park could try out new, more interactive dark ride technology in a new location. Of course, Kings Island could put a new ride system in Boo Blaster’s location, but I feel like it would remain the same if the ride system is already there.

[brenthodge]

2 hours ago, FUN&ONLY! said:

If Phantom Theater does come back, I really hope Kings Island does it right. I also hope the area around a new Phantom Theater gets overhauled as well. While some might want it to be where Boo Blasters is for nostalgia reasons, I do not think it matters where a new version of Phantom Theater goes. Phantom Theater really does not fit the theme of any area of the park (unless Kings Island decides to make Action Zone a haunted-themed section of the park). I would almost prefer it to be placed in a different section of the park and not its original location because I would rather see there be more indoor rides (even if one of them is Boo Blasters). Also, areas of the park like Rivertown could really benefit from new life if a new Phantom Theater was placed inside The Crypt building and the surrounding area was revamped. Finally, the park could try out new, more interactive dark ride technology in a new location. Of course, Kings Island could put a new ride system in Boo Blaster’s location, but I feel like it would remain the same if the ride system is already there.

I want it in the old Action Theatre space - It's an old "Midway Vaudeville Theatre" that has been long abandoned and recently reopened for development by the park, but as they began renovations, the theatre came to life and they realized that the spirits from the long departed ORIGINAL Phantom Theatre had taken up residence in this forgotten about corner of the park. The spirits "won" and development plans were halted, now... "sweaty tourists" can once again enter the theatre "if they dare" as the talented ghosts return to their rightful place as the premier entertainers at Kings Island. They could keep the weedy overgrown look "hidden" yet create a new "Marque" and rework - clean up that whole odd end of Coney by Wind-seeker. THEN rework BooBlasters into a Carnivale themed shooter style ride where you collect points as you travel through CARNIVALE celebrations of the world with Mardi P Gras and all of the other characters created for the scavenger hunt they do at CARNIVALE

[super7]

Retrospect is high quality.  Especially the choreography.   The choreographer knows how to feel music to the movements.   
 

They eliminated the live band   It’s a soundtrack    I would choose dancers over a band anyway since they are visual    
 

So there was a budget cut   But honestly the sound track is powerful  

The show has an odd, non posted schedule    It’s split into two different 15 min sets  interspersed with a dj party. People cannot know when the show is happening unless they walk by    
 

Why does KI do thst?   They do the same thing with the Nativity show at Winterfest     The other parks have these same shows with posted show times   

 

 

[calakapepe]

15 hours ago, robintodd said:

Let me start out again by saying that in my opinion PTE is the best overall show ever in the history of KI (my optinion, your mileage may vary  )  That being said I saw PTE yesterday and noticed that during Happy Feet there was an audible tap track playing over the dancers.  As a tapper myself I found it to be disturbing as volume of the track drowned out the "live" tap dancers (who are excellent).  Originally last year I suggested they mic the stage from underneth to get a little more volume and I think at the end of the season they seemed to be doing that.

I went up to the sound guys and asked them saying that I wanted to hear the dancers.  One of the guys told me "it is a recording of the dance by the cast".  The problem with that is it sounds like only 1 dancer was recorded.  There is a definite difference between 1 dancer and 8 when it comes to tap.  I'm not saying they needed a recording of 8 dancers but at least 3 would have made a difference and taken away the "solo" feel of the recorded track.  Tap is a very specific type of dance in that you can see the feet hitting the floor.  "Overdubbing" the sound of the dancers takes away from the live aspect of the piece in my opinion.  

I also noticed that some of the chorus parts were overdubbed also.  Maybe they were last year and they just didn't have the sound adjusted right but I was under the impression that last year EVERYTHING was live.  It was obvious when it was being played because it came in louder when they punched it in.

That being said the Hilda understudy did a great job and they did overdub just the 2-3 falseto parts of the character.  It was pretty seemless (nice job by the audio tech) and didn't bother me as I could understand how not everyone can do it the way the usual person who plays Hilda does.

Again the show is still fantastic I wanted to point out that (again in my opinion) the new overdubbing takes away from the live aspect of the talents of this extremely talented cast.  It also may have played a part that on a non-busy day with the rain in the forecast the theatre was only about 1/3 full.  I could understand overdubbing with a full house but then again I was there for the last 2 shows last year and noticed no sound issues at all.  In my opinion, keep it simple and keep it live and loose the overdubbing when not needed.

One last thing.  The new dialog that took the place of "blasting your boo's or something" is interesting and I'm thinking may be a hint for next season.  When the Phantom says "is that boo thing still there" it almost seems like he expects it not be there.  Like it's going to be replaced.  After seeing the interview with Mike Koontz and how he stated the plans for Adventure Port were thorwn together in a year it make me wonder if something else was planned for this year and because of supply chain issues or other delays that had to be put off till next year.  Hense "is that boo thing still there".  If we do get a new Phantom Theatre in place of Boo Blasters next year and they do the PTE show for one final year the dialoge could still be the same and instead of the audience saying "yes" a resounding "no" would be heard.  It would be really neat to have a show foreshadow a new attraction.  We'll have to wait and see.

You're not crazy. It would be better to record several people to tap along side with (audio wise) just to fill out the sound and make it full.

Vocal choruses in PTE (to my memory & assumption) definitely seemed to have recorded tracks, even last year. In general, when its a choral moment, it's usually nicer to balance pre-recorded bgvs with the live vocals being barely heard. You dont want fully recorded nor have the soloists stick out like a sore thumb. Least this was always my opinion of the best outcome.

I don't believe we have any substantial evidence that PTheatre will make a return directly following PTE... that's all I can deduce, and the most Im willing to postulate from rumors.

Though, I absolutely think they should go for it!

[Timchat2]

2 hours ago, super7 said:

The show has an odd, non posted schedule    It’s split into two different 15 min sets  interspersed with a dj party. People cannot know when the show is happening unless they walk by   

I'm not sure if the schedule is the same every evening but this seemed to be the schedule last Friday and Saturday (not sure how they label the two sets so I went with "A" and "B"):

7:00 Set A

7:30 Set B

8:15 Set A

8:52 Set B

9:23 Set A

(The last two times are a little odd but the performers did mention 8:52 specifically at the end of the previous set.)

[super7]

2 hours ago, Timchat2 said:

I'm not sure if the schedule is the same every evening but this seemed to be the schedule last Friday and Saturday (not sure how they label the two sets so I went with "A" and "B"):

7:00 Set A

7:30 Set B

8:15 Set A

8:52 Set B

9:23 Set A

(The last two times are a little odd but the performers did mention 8:52 specifically at the end of the previous set.)

Thanks.   Why can’t they just post that by the stage? 
 

[Timchat2]

Maybe they want some flexibility depending on weather and crowds?

The times on the Kings Island website don't really line up with what we've seen at the park so far and actually would almost lead a guest to miss most of the song-and-dance segments entirely: 

7:15 PM

8:00 PM

8:30 PM

9:15 PM

9:45 PM

All that said, it is a fun show and the cast really puts out a lot of energy! I wonder if the costumes will change for Grand Carnivale. Carowinds' RetroSpect just opened and they look to be using multi-colored outfits.

[BeeastFarmer]

I wonder why Lionel Burymore is not a character in PTE?

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

On 6/12/2023 at 10:15 PM, super7 said:

 They eliminated the live band   It’s a soundtrack    I would choose dancers over a band anyway since they are visual  

I disagree. I actually prefer the live band bc as a musician myself, I really like the idea of musicians (like guitarists and drummers etc) getting to showcase their talents at a theme park. While there is nothing wrong with Retrospect, I just feel like a group of dancers singing and dancing along to a backup soundtrack is not really my cup of tea as imo it is more special to have a live band. 

[brenthodge]

1 hour ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

I disagree. I actually prefer the live band bc as a musician myself, I really like the idea of musicians (like guitarists and drummers etc) getting to showcase their talents at a theme park. While there is nothing wrong with Retrospect, I just feel like a group of dancers singing and dancing along to a backup soundtrack is not really my cup of tea as imo it is more special to have a live band. 

Agree-and I think the cut could’ve been to the 70s thing and kept the live on the bandstand. Talent seems more wasted in Festhaus with the pizza crowd that could often care less there’s a show going on. 

[beastfan11]

11 hours ago, BeeastFarmer said:

I wonder why Lionel Burymore is not a character in PTE?

He’s doing an off broadway revival of Oklahoma. 

[robintodd]

Saw Phanotm last night and spoke to the cast.  Seems as though it's not a pre-recorded tap track but instead they had a tapper miked on their shoes.  They seemed to add a 2nd and/or 3rd miked tap shoe and it makes a big difference.

Also love how the show is evolving and they are chaning things up each performance as to not make it the same thing all 4 shows in a day.  Little tweeks that the GP wouldn't notice but I'm sure it keeps it fresh for the cast and us regulars.

[FUN&ONLY!]

I don’t really like that there were cuts at all in live entertainment like with the live band being cut from the bandstand. However, Kings Island still has it pretty good compared to most other Cedar Fair parks.

It seems that Cedar Fair began looking for ways to cut hourly labor midway through last year. This makes sense because labor was one area that Cedar Fair was falling short when it came to quarterly earnings. Other chains spent way less on hourly labor comparatively. Cedar Fair acknowledged this in their earnings calls and said that they plan to be more efficient while still maintaining the guests experience. One of the easiest ways to save money on labor is by cutting performers in live entertainment because they cost a lot (labor was cut elsewhere, too). This could explain why Winterfest seemed to see a cut in the number of actors in the Winterfest Wonderland Parade as well as the cut of a full live production (Charlie Brown’s Christmas Spectacular), which was essentially replaced by a band in the Festhaus. This season, Kings Island was mostly spared by entertainment cuts. Cedar Point, however, saw Forbidden Frontier cut altogether and most of the actors and boats taken out of Snake River Expedition. Cedar Point Nights was also cut. The other parks celebrating their 50th anniversaries also seem to be getting a “light” version of what Kings Island got last year.

I hope once Kings Island’s contracts with the current shows are over that continue to see a similar budget applied to new shows.