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17 minutes ago, DispatchMaster said:

And yet you cannot provide a single example of this happening, despite this apparently being a very smart and totally common occurrence.

L  O  L   :lol:  :rolleyes:

My own personal experience on dozens of contracts lol.  My interactions with CEOs and other executives in similar situations...  Whether you choose to believe it or not is your problem not mine...I'm not going to provide you with copies of emails from clients asking to provide this or that for their marketing activity lol...

Companies keep their marketing activities and decisions close and don't share how they maintain client relationships.  A company isn't going to throw their client under the bus and say the only reason why a piece of equipment or a person was there was because the client asked lol.  So I doubt you will find an article that says this is what successful companies do to maintain client relationships..

Like I said sometimes marketing dollars are spent on goodwill and brand recognition.

Otherwise why would B&M for example bring a train to the amusement convention and then spend all day talking to bloggers and enthusiasts that clearly are not going to be buying a ride from B&M lol...I guess in your mind that is a bad use of spending money...

Feeding of troll done lol

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So, first it's because of media exposure, but you can't show any examples here or historically of media coverage.

Then it's to promote a crane company to the public, but it's simultaneously a secret that can't be shared with the public?

Seems legit and totally not self-contradictory. :rolleyes:

And spare the whole "not feeding the troll" nonsense. You've made an unlikely, illogical claim, and have refused to back it up with anything beyond "because I say so". I'm reasonably skeptical, and have provided reasonable alternative, reasonable, explanations based on observable evidence that contradict these left-field suggestions, but it's clear that critical thought is frowned upon here, and instead we're just supposed to take your word for it, "because you say so". So, who's the troll?

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1 hour ago, DispatchMaster said:

So, first it's because of media exposure, but you can't show any examples here or historically of media coverage.

Then it's to promote a crane company to the public, but it's simultaneously a secret that can't be shared with the public?

Seems legit and totally not self-contradictory. :rolleyes:

And spare the whole "not feeding the troll" nonsense. You've made an unlikely, illogical claim, and have refused to back it up with anything beyond "because I say so". I'm reasonably skeptical, and have provided reasonable alternative, reasonable, explanations based on observable evidence that contradict these left-field suggestions, but it's clear that critical thought is frowned upon here, and instead we're just supposed to take your word for it, "because you say so". So, who's the troll?

Have you noticed the "observable evidence" that the members that you are directing your questions to are people who work in this very field? What are your qualifications to dismiss their claims? They have proven that by their intelligent answers, have come out and mentioned what they do, and we can take their word from their credibility on the forums. Being skeptic and having a in-depth discussion is very welcome here. Totally refusing to even entertain any thought put out there does not really continue the discussion. 

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Yeah, I'm kindof over this back and forth justify your claims discussion.

What I do find interesting (someone I think hinted at this a few pages back) is there does seem to be a lack of "enthusiasm" from our current KI social media posts.  It is hard to describe, and I don't have concrete examples, but rather one of those "you know it when you see it" type of feelings.  You really want your social media people to believe they have "the best job ever" and it comes through with their words and work output.  

Right now it just doesn't scream "I love my job!"

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20 hours ago, IndyGuy4KI said:

Totally refusing to even entertain any thought put out there does not really continue the discussion.

That's a straw man. I've not refused to entertain their arguments, I've simply asked for something to substantiate their claims beyond "because I say so". One would think that if their work experience were so vast and topical that they could provide something beyond that. Especially when those claims should be so easy to substantiate, since we're talking about things like media exposure, and not trade secrets.

Maybe some people find that convincing enough, but I certainly do not, and that's especially true when making outrageous claims that sort of demand substantiation.

Weird that healthy skepticism isn't welcome here.

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42 minutes ago, DispatchMaster said:

That's a straw man. I've not refused to entertain their arguments, I've simply asked for something to substantiate their claims beyond "because I say so". One would think that if their work experience were so vast and topical that they could provide something beyond that. Especially when those claims should be so easy to substantiate, since we're talking about things like media exposure, and not trade secrets.

Maybe some people find that convincing enough, but I certainly do not, and that's especially true when making outrageous claims that sort of demand substantiation.

Weird that healthy skepticism isn't welcome here.

It's the fact that you don't think answers are valid because you don't agree. 

Let's get back to discussing KI Comms in this thread instead of this.

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1 hour ago, DispatchMaster said:

That's a straw man. I've not refused to entertain their arguments, I've simply asked for something to substantiate their claims beyond "because I say so". One would think that if their work experience were so vast and topical that they could provide something beyond that. Especially when those claims should be so easy to substantiate, since we're talking about things like media exposure, and not trade secrets.

Maybe some people find that convincing enough, but I certainly do not, and that's especially true when making outrageous claims that sort of demand substantiation.

Weird that healthy skepticism isn't welcome here.

Let me make an easy example of what people are trying to convey. Take the local fire department for example. They are funded by millions of dollars in taxpayer funds. Their job and are paid to provide emergency services. Now ask yourself why would they be participating in local parades using gas and putting wear and tear on specialized, million dollar apparatus, when they are paid to respond to emergencies? It’s about building a good relationship with the community (customers) that they serve. If the fire department has a bad relationship with the community, they will have a much more difficult time to receive the needed funds to operate. Whether that be unable to pass a fire levy, and or the department is defunded. (Google Minneapolis police) 
 

So take for example this crane company, getting a large sum of money to do work for Cedar Fair (Customer). They’ve probably worked on previous projects (funds) for Cedar Fair (customer) prior, or have hopes in building a good relationship with Cedar Fair (customer) in order to be offered future projects contracted (funds) to them in the future. The crane company more than likely is willing to take a small loss and providing a crane for show that is more than likely not making them any money to help keep a positive relationship with Cedar Fair (customer).

It’s the same principle. I hope this helps.

(Google dog and pony show.)

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9 minutes ago, Orion-XL200 said:

It's the fact that you don't think answers are valid because you don't agree. 

Let's get back to discussing KI Comms in this thread instead of this.

This gets back on topic while also addressing this backa and forth lol.

So yesterday in honor of National Roller Coaster Day, the PR/marketing team gave away 100 single use Fast Lanes, Orion magnets and Nanocoasters, and blue ice cream and they posted about it on social media with pics.

Dispatch will come on the scene and say how do they justify that expense and how do you show the return on investment...

Most will agree this isn't making them money giving away this stuff lol.  So why did they do it.  Sometimes marketing and PR is to maintain customer relationships.  It is a loss leader in hopes maybe these guests buy something else in the park.  Other guests see the social media post of the freebies and come to the park in hopes they get a freebie because who doesn't like a freebie...

This is how marketing and PR works.  When you think too black/white like you do and don't understand the grey, then none of us will be able to change your mind.  That is fine.  That is why you aren't in charge of marketing lol

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59 minutes ago, DispatchMaster said:

 I've not refused to entertain their arguments, I've simply asked for something to substantiate their claims beyond "because I say so". One would think that if their work experience were so vast and topical that they could provide something beyond that.

Weird that healthy skepticism isn't welcome here.

If my doctor tells me that it would be a good idea to do xyz...then I do it. It may be a hunch, or based on evidence-based peer-reviewed practice.

If my HVAC guy says " I have had a lot of experience with a Goodman compressor, I think yours has about 2 years left. Let's nurse it through and save some money for a replacement in the meantime."

If someone who has industry experience, and PR/marketing experience, as the ones you tend to try to rile up, I listen to them and apply common sense. You seem to want intangible numbers.  

Sometimes, things in this industry are grey, not black and white. Since you evidently do not patronize Kings Island, and appear to not have industry experience or PR/marketing experience, I don't think you are going to be satisfied with anything anyone says here. 

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34 minutes ago, disco2000 said:

So yesterday in honor of National Roller Coaster Day, the PR/marketing team gave away 100 single use Fast Lanes, Orion magnets and Nanocoasters, and blue ice cream and they posted about it on social media with pics.

Dispatch will come on the scene and say how do they justify that expense and how do you show the return on investment...

No, I will ask you how giving away low/no cost stuff like ice cream and coupons compares in any way to mobilizing an unnecessarily-massive, unnecessarily-expensive crane that takes an unnecessarily-large crew, each getting paid union wages, and an unnecessary number hours to set up and operate? All I've been saying is that maybe there's a reason other than marketing that this large crane was needed versus a smaller one. After all, wouldn't a smaller, less expensive crane have achieved the same "brand recognition" or whatever?

39 minutes ago, BeeastFarmer said:

If my doctor tells me that it would be a good idea to do xyz

But as far as I can tell, disco and jsus aren't doctors, they're people posting on the Internet. And if someone on the Internet told me to take some unknown medicine whose intended effects seemed unbelievable, and justified it by saying "because I say so", I would go see a doctor, and even then I would get a second opinion. It would be foolish to do otherwise.

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1 hour ago, DispatchMaster said:

 

But as far as I can tell, disco and jsus aren't doctors, they're people posting on the Internet. And if someone on the Internet told me to take some unknown medicine whose intended effects seemed unbelievable, and justified it by saying "because I say so", I would go see a doctor, and even then I would get a second opinion. It would be foolish to do otherwise.

This is where reading comprehension and critical thinking are needed by you. I have an example of two professional experts that I would listen to and follow the advice given.  I went on to mention that people here, who have industry experience and expertise have stated sound, logical examples to you. You choose not to agree.  That is fine, but you have your mind made up and have stubbornly clung to it 

 

I agree that this has gone way off topic. I'd suggest starting a new thread about the crane if you want more attention.  

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1 hour ago, DispatchMaster said:

No, I will ask you how giving away low/no cost stuff like ice cream and coupons compares in any way to mobilizing an unnecessarily-massive, unnecessarily-expensive crane that takes an unnecessarily-large crew, each getting paid union wages, and an unnecessary number hours to set up and operate? All I've been saying is that maybe there's a reason other than marketing that this large crane was needed versus a smaller one. After all, wouldn't a smaller, less expensive crane have achieved the same "brand recognition" or whatever?

Getting more way off-topic, but I think you are really inflating a too much the difference between crane A and bigger crane B  (BTW, that is a lot of unnecessary assumptions and definitive statements).   Both are mobile cranes and crew sizes wouldn't be that different between operations.  If the company had both sitting in their stockyard and available to rent, but wants to work with the customer to put on more of a show, it isn't that unrealistic to "bring out the big guns".  Because they can, and if media is involved people/companies are willing to show-off a bit.    

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4 hours ago, DJSkyFoxx said:

This is all beginning to sound like a middle school math-word problem :lol:

I was thinking more along the lines of an elementary school playground "My Daddy can beat your Daddy up".  I will listen to the people who actually work or have worked in areas like this as opposed to a self-proclaimed "Master" of anything.

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Wasn't the 50th anniversary of the Brady Bunch filming at the park within the past couple of days? Not a single word on social media, no press coverage?

With such a big history event in the park that shared our park with the nation, you'd think there'd be some kind of recognition of the milestone anniversary. 

Another failure of KI Comms and shows they don't actually know/care about the park.

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33 minutes ago, Orion-XL200 said:

Wasn't the 50th anniversary of the Brady Bunch filming at the park within the past couple of days? Not a single word on social media, no press coverage?

With such a big history event in the park that shared our park with the nation, you'd think there'd be some kind of recognition of the milestone anniversary. 

Another failure of KI Comms and shows they don't actually know/care about the park.

…and what’s your famous line?

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4 hours ago, Orion-XL200 said:

Wasn't the 50th anniversary of the Brady Bunch filming at the park within the past couple of days? Not a single word on social media, no press coverage?

With such a big history event in the park that shared our park with the nation, you'd think there'd be some kind of recognition of the milestone anniversary. 

Another failure of KI Comms and shows they don't actually know/care about the park.

Maybe they're just waiting for the 50th anniversary of the airing of the episode in November. That's a good way to drum up off-season annual pass and Winterfest tickets. It's not like they did nothing with the Brady Bunch last year for their own 50th. 

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15 hours ago, BoddaH1994 said:

…and what’s your famous line?

Being that you are so passionate about PR and the Comms problems with at KI. Why don’t you and Don make it a subject on Tower Topics? You can cover the issues from this season and those in years past.

I think it would be great to get some insight on the subject.

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15 minutes ago, Tr0y said:

Being that you are so passionate about PR and the Comms problems with at KI. Why don’t you and Don make it a subject on Tower Topics? You can cover the issues from this season to those in years past.

I think it would be great to get some insight on the subject.

I'd rather hear the perspective on using cranes at Cedar Point.  :)

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10 minutes ago, cdubbs727 said:

Maybe they're just waiting for the 50th anniversary of the airing of the episode in November. That's a good way to drum up off-season annual pass and Winterfest tickets. It's not like they did nothing with the Brady Bunch last year for their own 50th. 

There's a difference between in park entertainment featuring the history of the park (not set up by a comms department) to have Brady Bunch featured as a portion of the fireworks show as well as Barry Williams narrating the show and a post/blog/etc. acknowledging "on this date...." a year later. 

As long as I remember there was a fairly consistent post about the filming being made and posts going out when the park would be aware of "The Brady Bunch episode of "The Cincinnati Kids" filmed at Kings Island will be on ____ at 7:00 pm." 

Not only do posts increase park awareness, but they have a reach....reach translates into potential sales/financial growth. How hard would it have been for KI Comms to make a post "Today is the 50th Anniversary of when The Brady Bunch arrived at Kings Island, make sure you grab a gold or prestige pass to ride The Racer like the Brady family, throw a football like Greg Brady, enjoy food like Cindy and Bobby," etc. 

Folks who grew up watching The Brady Bunch would eat that crap up, see the photo below.

Here's the Story

It's all about marketing to your audience. The 3rd quarter of the year can use a boost in sales due to shortened operating schedules....the anniversary hits in 3rd quarter....why not try to boost sales for season passes coinciding with a famous event at the park?

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48 minutes ago, Tr0y said:

Being that you are so passionate about PR and the Comms problems with at KI. Why don’t you and Don make it a subject on Tower Topics? You can cover the issues from this season to those in years past.

I think it would be great to get some insight on the subject.

That would indeed be a fascinating discussion but would burn serious bridges. 

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13 minutes ago, Aaron88stang said:

That would indeed be a fascinating discussion but would burn serious bridges. 

Oh, so basically if you are apart of or have outside interest in the amusement park community but also don’t want to reap any repercussions with giving your honest opinion. You just post here and make KIC look bad instead? ;)
 

 

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40 minutes ago, Orion-XL200 said:

There's a difference between in park entertainment featuring the history of the park (not set up by a comms department) to have Brady Bunch featured as a portion of the fireworks show as well as Barry Williams narrating the show and a post/blog/etc. acknowledging "on this date...." a year later. 

As long as I remember there was a fairly consistent post about the filming being made and posts going out when the park would be aware of "The Brady Bunch episode of "The Cincinnati Kids" filmed at Kings Island will be on ____ at 7:00 pm." 

Not only do posts increase park awareness, but they have a reach....reach translates into potential sales/financial growth. How hard would it have been for KI Comms to make a post "Today is the 50th Anniversary of when The Brady Bunch arrived at Kings Island, make sure you grab a gold or prestige pass to ride The Racer like the Brady family, throw a football like Greg Brady, enjoy food like Cindy and Bobby," etc. 

Folks who grew up watching The Brady Bunch would eat that crap up, see the photo below.

Here's the Story

It's all about marketing to your audience. The 3rd quarter of the year can use a boost in sales due to shortened operating schedules....the anniversary hits in 3rd quarter....why not try to boost sales for season passes coinciding with a famous event at the park?

I get it, but also...The Brady Bunch was 50 years ago. Kids who watched it live then are in their 60s or 70s...is that the target demo anymore? It made sense when the show was syndicated heavily and people were still watching it regularly. But in the age of streaming, is The Brady Bunch still in the cultural consciousness enough to move the needle? I know it's on Paramount+, but are people still watching it in the way they watch "newer" old shows like Friends or Seinfeld? 

Also, the dates that the show filmed at KI were Aug. 20-24, so it's conceivable they could still post something. But if not, I mean, it's not a huge thing. The park's only open on weekends, it's not going to bring a ton of people in. 

I get that there are probably areas where the current comms team could improve. But as someone who works in marketing and communications, I can also say it's easy to play Monday morning quarterback, and you also don't know how higher-ups have influenced what they communicate and how. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Tr0y said:

Oh, so basically if you are apart of or have outside interest in the amusement park community but also don’t want to reap any repercussions with giving your honest opinion. You just post here and make KIC look bad instead? ;)
 

 

Well...I was referring more to Don. lol. I can not see him talking ill about his former employer. 

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