disco2000

Thanks for sharing. On the contrary, I don't think it is way too much information, and certainly brings up some more rambling thoughts and questions, but we can save that for a future podcast

Glad to hear your mom is home and doing well! Sounds like we agree on a lot of things on my rambling post. Your rambling to my rambling makes sense. Now if it does to anyone else is another story LOL.

What do you propose they change to make it better?

I was simply pointing out the differences between what a gold pass provides you access to and what a Prestige pass provides you access to - there were different levels of access provided to a particular pass. Same with what the meal and drink plan provided the passholder access to - access to 2 meals 4 hours apart and a refill every 15 minutes without specifically stating which food places or soft drinks. The Prestige Pass specifically stated you get bottled drinks (among other things), and whether someone could drink enough bottles or not for the price increase is a strawman argument - that you fail to agree with or acknowledge. There are screenshots all over social media where the park clearly stated bottled beverages were included with the Prestige Pass, but it isn't worth my time looking it up and finding it because clearly you wouldn't accept it anyway. It is clear you are a smart person, but you take everything literal and everything to you is a black/white, right/wrong, left/right, ethical/unethical to the extreme and you fail to realize that is a lot of grey area to everything in life. At this point I don't know if that is the only explanation or if you are trolling or part of the legal team for CF, but it isn't worth debating this topic with you anymore. Most, if not all here, simply don't agree with your line of thinking. Oh wait, since you are so caught up on legal definitions, here is a rhetorical question for you - Is it ok to cheat on your significant other? By your definition it probably is ok as it is not illegal. Further, to some people it isn't immoral or unethical either. But it is certainly a reputation issue to most. As you said, there is reason places have the reputation they have....and if CF continues down this path, their reputation will be harmed, even more so now with the merger as many will word of mouth state that they stooped to SIX reputation instead of elevating SIX reputation. Just because "legally" they can claim the "subject to change" clause doesn't mean that continuing down that path won't harm their reputation. It is clear you believe otherwise and believe it is good business practice to change what is offered at every whim and who cares what the customer thinks. It's people like you that cause businesses to go under. Look at the bottom line short term with no vision for the future and what the actions of today can cause in the future. A local oil change place went under near me in part because they shorted every customer a half quart on an oil change...they were saving 100 quarts of oil per day. I assume in your mind that is an excellent business practice Once their reputation took a hit by word of mouth, nobody went there. All over a half quart of oil....meanwhile a reputable oil change place that was charging more has lines consistently longer than a Chic-Fil-A LOL. You get what you pay for. Now back to regularly scheduled programming - do folks hope they re-energized the Train 12 Days of Christmas or go in a different direction?

And by "pitched to me" you mean what the park said that the Prestige pass provided to you in writing, pictures, FAQ, etc. that were access to items above and beyond simple "access" to the park. They sold the Prestige pass as access to bottled drinks, among other things. Contrast that to a meal plan that says you are simply entitled to access two meals per visit 4 hours apart. Or the drink plan that says simply access to a refill every 15 minutes. They did not state when someone purchases the meal or drink plan what restaurants or soft drink vendor would be provided. So the consumer purchases said meal and drink plan based on their prior experience with said plan or word of mouth of friends, social media sites, etc. and expects to be able to get two meals and drink refills every 15 minutes while at the park. The same with a season pass. They are not explicitly stating that you get unlimited access to any of the rides or even a specific ride because a ride could be down for a variety of reasons. Same with a particular food place or drink refill stand. They are still providing you access to the park and access to food and a drink refill. With the Prestige Pass, they explicitly stated what that pass holder would have access to and changed it. He has been out of the game since 2019, so he probably truly has no idea what the Prestige pass was actually marketed as. That is the fundamental difference that he fails to accept or acknowledge. Because this is a pre-purchased item, his argument that "Reducing what is offered is fundamentally the same thing as an increase in price" is an integrity issue with the park. He is caught up on the legal definition of "bait and switch", when to the average consumer, the perception is a bait and switch and is what is spread by word of mouth. A pre-purchased item is much different than going to the store and seeing that the Tide bottle is 8 ounces smaller than previously for the same price. At the store, you then have a decision to make - do I buy Tide recognizing I am getting less for the same price or do I try a cheaper alternative. In this situation we don't as they already have your money. The business model of pre-selling passes is different and if they want to continue to have a healthy presale of season passes the year prior, then they need to fundamentally provide what they are advertising they are selling. If not, everyone (or a healthy majority) will wait until the following year and see what the product is truly going to be - days and hours of park operation, what food stands will be there, entertainment, etc. before purchasing. That will hurt their bottom line without those presales. Since he is hung up on the word unethical, would he accept that the integrity of the park is compromised doing stuff like this? Or reputation of the park is compromised? He seems to be stuck on the literally definition of a word instead of the intent or perception. Certainly there has to be a word that he will accept and acknowledge LOL. Or maybe not Back to regularly scheduled programming - while the park is not offering as many events or shows for Winterfest as prior years, I still feel like 13 is a large number and someone is probably not able to take all 13 events in on one night, so while I wish some of the shows being removed were not, they are still providing enough options that most will not take exception to.

Why do I envision going to the car lot and picking out a car with high-end alloy wheels and while you are filling out the paperwork, he swaps out the alloys for cheap wheels and plastic hubcaps and expects you to be ok with that material change LOL. And probably siphon the gas out too

Yep. The 12 days was getting dated and run-down.

Let's hope at least 2 million of the existing 5 million are still working

In addition to being a great story teller, you are a numbers guy, so I figured if anyone could dispute the arguments against marketing in this thread below it would be you. But of course now that your "gag order" is over LOL (either real or perceived here due to lack of posting), that thread is closed... Given your incredible background and experience, we look forward to you being able to share your thoughts and opinions on topics that in the past you may have had to toe the employer line and not cross. You could end each segment with the famous Paul Harvey quote: “Now you know…the rest of the story."

Then they go to Burger King where they can "have it your way" And Wendy's would resurrect their "Where's the Beef" campaign

So which was it that caused you to not renew - a series of devaluing events that all added up and ERT dewatering was the final straw or just the ERT that you alluded to...you are sending mixed signals... So we accept that you no longer found value in it. Why can't you accept that to many here, there hasn't been enough "devaluing" events to warrant not to renew and these same people are continuing to "inform the vendor" that a continual devaluing of the pass will result in them not renewing at some point? Yes, it is true that reducing what is offered is fundamentally the same thing as an increase in price. It is a way of life. There are not many products one can buy that hasn't had shrinkage. But folks here are saying "you know what, instead of reducing what is offered, how about increasing the price". You apparently chose to ignore that fact. Sometimes paying the lowest price possible for something isn't worth it. Have you ever heard the saying "you get what you paid for". There are many things in life people are willing to pay a premium for, but alas you probably purchase Big K cola instead of the real cola LOL. And you mention you "went on with my life" and yet here you are LOL Is it because you are jealous others are still enjoying the parks while you are not, or that you are trying to convince people to follow your lead and not renew... There are other parts of my life and other forums, etc. that when I decided it was time to move on with my life, that is exactly what I did and completely left it behind and haven't logged on to those forums and even thought about those places again. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming....Which "show" or event that remained would you have replaced with one of the departing shows. I would replace the Holly Holiday's String-A-Long that usually gets a handful of guests with the popular and can't believe it is departed Four Drummers Drumming.

Cool. I hope it is addressed some day, as do others! It might be the final straw why some people finally decide to write off the park and not renew passes (cross-threading)... Oh I know the OTD content connects with people or it wouldn't be done. I personally always enjoy seeing the clips and of the park in its infancy. But some here think the Brady Bunch filming here doesn't add any value and bringing it up every year doesn't add value or bodies thru the gate and if you can't put a tangible concrete number on it, then it isnt worth doing and further shouldn't market outside the region (again cross threading LOL)...

Sorry to hear about your mom. You are in my thoughts for a speedy recovery!

Some (maybe even the majority) might call it insanity to give up season passes simply over the ERT being devalued....you do realize a lot of people put ZERO value in ERT as they aren't early birds lol. Plus if everyone put value on it and attended, then it would be devalue the perk even more lol. Like all of us have said, just because we complain doesn't mean we still don't get value out of the park at the price point we are paying. But every person and company should strive to do better. If they continue down this path of legal bait and switch, subject to change at anytime mentality, eventually they will lose enough that write them off. Our complaints are more of constructive criticism than deal breakers at this point. But at some point, an item will be the final straw, and we are hoping it doesn't get to that point.

I didn't say it needed to be a Tower Topics podcast lol. I was simply asking here has the marketing/PR/guest relations arena changed in the days of social media and|or have some parks not made the commitment to adapt to that changing environment... Although you all did touch on the changing landscape of social media and its its influence on The Attractions Group Podcast when you had Taylor from Coaster Studios as a guest... But yes I agree, we need to be reminded yearly OTD that The Brady Bunch was recorded at KI and OTD The Cincinnati Kids aired

So instead they will continue to devalue the product to make it accessible to everyone and thus drive people away because it is always crowded, dirty, long lines, etc. Or would they be better to bite the bullet and double the price and lose the low hanging fruit that wasn't spending in the park anyway and provide an overall better product to retain and increase those that will spend in the park. As long as they wouldn't lose half the pass holders if they doubled the price, they come out ahead (which I doubt they would, especially if they make a commitment that they will not devalue the offering with reduced hours and other still legal "bait and switch" moves that fall under the subject to change...

You pay a heck of a lot more for your Dollywood and Disney AP and visit those less than CF parks with their cheaper pass and a park essentially in your backyard. So why wouldn't a higher pass price for CF properties not work?

Someone here probably wouldn't consider Dollywood a destination park cross-threading lol)....

Flavor was subject to availability caveat emptor

Let's not turn this thread into another "bait and switch" argument lol. The fact of the matter is people purchase a pass based on the offering of the previous year with anticipation/expectations that the product will be generally materially the same. And the last few years they have watered down the product even late into a season. We get it, we know you see a pass as only providing access and you spoke with your wallet when they materially changed the offering that you felt was of value. You aren't going to change the mind of folks here, just like it is painfully obvious you aren't going to change your position or even empathize with others with valid arguments. What company do you run so we can avoid it

We all know they will continue to understaff rides, attractions, and eateries as well.... You think these reduced hours means the Freestyle Machine location by the train will never be closed? They won't cut back on train hours? And of course people are going to complain regardless, isn't that what the internet and "social media" sites are all about

I guess we should be lucky they haven't cut daily hours back. I was expecting them to follow their trend at some other parks and drop weekday hours to 8 or 9pm. But it is still early and could change for the worse...or the better..... caveat emptor

And yet the ParkMap for Winterfest doesn't show either ride and shows Slingshot instead LOL

Yeah, and I would have exchanged some of the remaining events for some of the departed events.

Some highlights....um lowlights... Opening Day April 20th 10am to 9pm. May weekday hours are 10am to 6pm and 9pm weekend closes (7pm on Sundays) until Memorial Day weekend. No closing hours past 10pm during daily operation (not showing Haunt yet), but 10pm closes for 4th of July. Daily operation ends August 12th. No 8pm closes in August as they removed a week from historical operation.