Vortex Is Leaving After This Fall Season

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

It's harder for me to accept even though I hate the ride because I'm not used to parks removing a coaster the same offseason they are building a new coaster. That also makes me wonder if they'll actually wait until Orion is completed to start tearing down Vortex or if they'll leave it SBNO next season and start dismantling it at the end of next season. 

[homestar92]

2 hours ago, veritas said:

http://www.ellocoaster.com/2018-wood-coaster-poll-results

If the manufacturer believes they are wood. And there wood coasters are ranked as wood coasters what more do you want. RMC broke the paradigm of what a wood coaster does, looks and feels. Granted I can understand the doubt. But if RMC's in your opinion doesn't make wood coasters, couldn't the same argument be made with the Intamin prefabs? 

Also I will be getting my last rides on Vortex on the 11th. This maybe the only time I am not looking forward to going to Kings Island.

 

If no wood whatsoever exists between the drive wheels and the upstop wheels at any point on the ride cycle, I have a hard time calling the coaster "wooden".

Intamin prefabs, while certainly not traditional wooden coasters, are wooden coasters because the wheels ride on wood. It's not about "feel", it's about what the wheels are actually riding on. If we're going by "feel", then Adventure Express is a wooden coaster and El Toro is steel and both of those are obviously not true.

30 minutes ago, SonofBaconator said:

Because the 6 boards that make up the trackbed are wood where as i-box is all metal.

So technically speaking, the majority of the ride is wood. Mystic Timbers has some metal supports but its still a wooden coaster.

The majority of Adventure Express is also wood, as are the majority of all RMC Iron Horse coasters (except Storm Chaser). Not a single person is calling those wooden coasters. A few wooden boards that sit under the actual track rails on a coaster where no wood exists between the wheels doesn't make a meaningful differentiation with something like a mine train coaster. RMCs are steel coasters that the manufacturer has decided to claim as wooden so that they can claim records.

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

I consider the topper track coasters wooden coasters, but in a new design. Mainly because the track is a few wood boards with a steel slab on top. The Ibox track is 100% steel. 

[DeltaFlyer]

56 minutes ago, Hueney020 said:

I am a little confused by the statement that the manufacturer believes they are wood coasters. I have seen a few YouTube videos that Allen says he believes they are steel coasters. However it’s not up to him and it’s up to the amusement park so obviously you don’t want to upset a client and you just go with whatever they say.

I think most enthusiasts agree that it’s one thing to call the topper track a wood coaster but the Ibox is a steel coaster. I also think once the GP gets off any Ibox coaster they think it is a steel coaster or a hybrid. 

Gemini and Adventure Express (and most mine trains) are "hybrids" in this way- we don't go around calling them wood coasters the way people like to with IBox rides. I can see calling topper track wood since there is many layers of wood and you are essentially just making the metal pieces that the wheels bear on a little larger. 

 

5 minutes ago, homestar92 said:

If no wood whatsoever exists between the drive wheels and the upstop wheels at any point on the ride cycle, I have a hard time calling the coaster "wooden".

A few wooden boards that sit under the actual track rails on a coaster where no wood exists between the wheels doesn't make a meaningful differentiation with something like a mine train coaster. 

On every coaster the wheel is touching steel and only steel. There are strips of metal attached to the wood both on the top, side, and bottom, which is what the metal wheels of the train touch. By that logic, every coaster is a steel coaster....

Here is a neat image, 

[homestar92]

1 minute ago, DeltaFlyer said:

Gemini and Adventure Express (and most mine trains) are "hybrids" in this way- we don't go around calling them wood coasters the way people like to with IBox rides. I can see calling topper track wood since there is many layers of wood and you are essentially just making the metal pieces that the wheels bear on a little larger. 

 

On every coaster the wheel is touching steel and only steel. There are strips of metal attached to the wood both on the top, side, and bottom, which is what the metal wheels of the train touch. By that logic, every coaster is a steel coaster....

Here is a neat image, 

Note that I didn't say I categorize by what the wheels are sitting on, I categorize by what material is the predominant one between the upstop wheels and the drive wheels.

Yes, all wooden coasters' wheels are directly contacting a series of thin steel strips. But between those thin steel strips? Wood. That's the key. RMC topper track wheels ride on a steel box with no wood in its construction whatsoever. It's no different than the construction of a mine train coaster, which are universally regarded as steel. The differentiation between topper track and I-box track is just enthusiasts and manufacturers being pedantic to claim records. The fact is, in either case, No wood exists between the wheels whatsoever.

[veritas]

I do believe that mine trains have tubular steel track. 

 

[JonahWilliamson]

Am I the only one who wants a B&M sitdown looper. 

Dethrone Kumba. And give us a 90 degree drop

[homestar92]

1 hour ago, JonahWilliamson said:

Am I the only one who wants a B&M sitdown looper. 

Dethrone Kumba. And give us a 90 degree drop

I don't think they really make those anymore. I feel like floorless coasters have kinda rendered them obsolete.

[teenageninja]

I'm kind of torn, because I think the park could have handled it better.  I thought the timing was poor, overnight on a Friday morning.  A month before it's due to be removed.

I can't say for sure ridership has declined.  It seems like a lot of people complain about the roughness, so it's a possibility.  

I'll always have a soft spot for Vortex, it was the first coaster I ever worked at, at the park.  It was the first ride I was a Supervisor at.  I would argue all day that it has the best drop in the park.  It's an iconic coaster that deserved a better send off.

I'm torn, because on one hand I would like to make a trip to say goodbye and ride one last time, on the other hand, I am considering not getting a pass for next season now.  We'll see what decision I end up making, but Vortex will always have a dear spot in my heart.

I just hope that the space is utilized correctly.

[cdubbs727]

14 hours ago, silver2005 said:

So what would a better Vortex removal announcement look like to those of you not satisfied with it (including the context given that Firehawk was just demolished and Orion's announcement)?

As someone who works in marketing and public relations, I think that it was a missed opportunity not to treat the closure of one of the park's iconic roller coasters as an event. Firehawk was not a coaster that originated at Kings Island and didn't have the iconic impact on the park's skyline that Vortex had; I understand revealing its "demise" at a faux funeral. It appeared that's what KI might have been doing this year; the funeral was all set up, but the event never happened; it was just a press release instead. 

Honestly, I feel like Vortex deserved more than even that -- you don't say goodbye to a vital piece of history and iconography in a press release. Vortex deserved a summer-long sendoff. Sell T-shirts, tell people all summer that it's the last year they'll have to ride it. Adjust the digital photo frames to highlight the final year. Theme Haunt to the Death of Vortex, counting down the minutes until its demise (if dismantling is going to happen this year -- not likely, I assume -- maybe close the last haunt by inviting the public to see the demolition). Make it big (Kings Island -- I'm available for hire!). 

But this is all 20/20 hindsight. Park marketing was busy this year. There were incredible improvements to International Street and the opening of the Antique Autos. I assume a celebration of park history like that might have seemed odd if they also announced "oh yeah, speaking of history, we're taking out The Vortex." Plus, the lead-up to the Orion announcement was a masterful and fun bit of marketing. 

And, this all assumes that The Vortex closure was something the park was aware of earlier in the season. Maybe it wasn't. Maybe they'd hoped to do that final season next year -- an old age ends with Vortex's passing, but the new age starts with Orion. But perhaps inspections revealed that it couldn't be guaranteed another safe or reliable season. Or, also likely, maybe there were budgetary reasons why the timeline had to have Vortex closing now. I don't know. But KI has proved itself to be a strong communicator and respecter of history in the past, so my hunch is this was something that came up fast. 

[KI Guy]

3 hours ago, homestar92 said:

RMCs are steel coasters that the manufacturer has decided to claim as wooden so that they can claim records.

You are correct.

But I will say Intamin prefabs are wooden in the same way that O'doul's is beer.

[Tr0y]

6 hours ago, DeltaFlyer said:

Gemini and Adventure Express (and most mine trains) are "hybrids" in this way- we don't go around calling them wood coasters the way people like to with IBox rides. I can see calling topper track wood since there is many layers of wood and you are essentially just making the metal pieces that the wheels bear on a little larger. 

 

On every coaster the wheel is touching steel and only steel. There are strips of metal attached to the wood both on the top, side, and bottom, which is what the metal wheels of the train touch. By that logic, every coaster is a steel coaster....

Here is a neat image, 

Toppler track is just Vekoma track with 2x4’s attached underneath the rails. Definitely a steel coaster. 

[fyrfyter]

I hope we don’t get another wooden coaster out of this. It will just be a waste of Vortex’s demise.

I am also tired of B&M. Pick another manufacturer who can do something different and change it up. Steel with 6 inversions again, or better yet, 7!

[LovinMeSomeBanshee]

We need our own Copperhead Strike or Maverick-type coaster.  We have the terrain there for it..

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

I posted this in The Vortex replacement thread, but I really like this Mack concept I found!

 

[riptombraider]

On 9/29/2019 at 8:42 PM, ArrowChainLiftNoiseMakesMeHappy said:

On 9/29/2019 at 8:35 PM, Ben43065 said:

That’s not a good way to look at things… it’s a rollercoaster with a 300 ft drop let’s not act like it’s garbage. The Beast maybe your favorite ride in the park but you can’t ignore the fact rides like Diamondback & Orion will be the GP’s go to. It’s not a bad ride but let’s not act like Orion is garbage.

You're not wrong. Here's the deal. I'm just ****ed that Cedar Fair let me find out by a push notification that my favorite roller coaster manufacturers most beautiful ride at my favorite park is being demolished. I hate to be that guy but Cedar Point wouldn't be dealing with this, they get to keep corkscrew. And if they took corkscrew down they would probably get some world record smashing coaster. My heart is just heavy ladies and gents. I'm not sure I'm gonna be able to get over the fact that I have such limited time to go see my coaster.

I’m with you, I live in Wisconsin now and there’s no way I can make it back to ride this gem one last time. I’ve never marathoned a ride like Vortex, the inversions were all so perfect to me every time. I guess I’ll have to get my last ride via YouTube 

[Austin_SNW]

 

[spooky21]

I haven't spoke on this yet cause I feel it's a very touchy subject. My honest thoughts on this, I am not happy at all. Was at the park Sunday and didn't see a single thing to pay homage to this ride. This has been a bad year for CF in my opinion however I'm sure you will disagree. I see Firehawk and one of the most iconic coasters leaving the park in a year span, and we lost the royal fountain. I have lost hype for Orion, I just feel like they should have waited at least a year for this one. Not seeing Vortex anymore will hurt for sure,and it will hurt more than not seeing the original fountain.

[Benjamin22]

6 minutes ago, spooky21 said:

I haven't spoke on this yet cause I feel it's a very touchy subject. My honest thoughts on this, I am not happy at all. Was at the park Sunday and didn't see a single thing to pay homage to this ride. This has been a bad year for CF in my opinion however I'm sure you will disagree. I see Firehawk and one of the most iconic coasters leaving the park in a year span, and we lost the royal fountain. I have lost hype for Orion, I just feel like they should have waited at least a year for this one. Not seeing Vortex anymore will hurt for sure,and it will hurt more than not seeing the original fountain.

I definitely wish they would have been able to squeeze another year out of the ride, the hype around Orion has really diminished for me personally. However I personally think this season has been fantastic, we got a 7 million dollar I-Street renovation, grand Carnival, a new restaurant, Antique cars  & all the hype around Orion. Just sad its ending on a bad note.

[Bansheelover]

After five days now, and a trip to KI Sunday I am very excited to see the removal of Vortex. The time has come, and to see which direction Cedar Fair takes KI is exciting. So far under their leadership we have received huge rides. Diamondback, Banshee, Mystic Timbers, and now Orion. Kings Island has an opportunity to make an dead area of the park alive again. It started with the Antique Cars, and will continue with a new ride in The Vortex vacant land. Too many types to speculate towards, but Copperhead Strike and Maverick are two of the most fun rides I have ever ridden. Good bye to the old and decaying hello to the new and shiny! I have never been more excited for the future of KI. Orion is going to be amazing , and whatever replaces Vortex will be amazing as well.

[CedarFairFan787]

I will most definitely be getting a couple more visits to KI this season with my new Gold Pass, so I intend on getting many rides on the wonderfully visual coaster that not only looked great, but it gave pretty good rides leading up to its demise. This was my first looping coaster, and I remember marathoning this coaster when I was around 9 and 10 years of age. This has always been a special ride to me and I'm sad to see it go. Now that I'm older and enjoy less rough and bigger and more intense rides, I haven't gotten as many rides per visit as I used to, so I will be getting many rides. Although I'm sad to see it go, I can wait to see what will fill its place and used use one of the most prime locations or (In my opinion) the most prime piece of land in the entire park.

[Benjamin22]

3 hours ago, Bansheelover said:

After five days now, and a trip to KI Sunday I am very excited to see the removal of Vortex. The time has come, and to see which direction Cedar Fair takes KI is exciting. So far under their leadership we have received huge rides. Diamondback, Banshee, Mystic Timbers, and now Orion. Kings Island has an opportunity to make an dead area of the park alive again. It started with the Antique Cars, and will continue with a new ride in The Vortex vacant land. Too many types to speculate towards, but Copperhead Strike and Maverick are two of the most fun rides I have ever ridden. Good bye to the old and decaying hello to the new and shiny! I have never been more excited for the future of KI. Orion is going to be amazing , and whatever replaces Vortex will be amazing as well.

If I’m going to be quite honest I don’t think Vortex was the problem with Coney Mall(Especially considering how nice the ride looked), I’d call the eyesore know as Backlot to be the issue. Vortex was a good ride, while it maybe old at least it isn’t a parking garage and shipping containers...

[CedarFairFan787]

What could fill Vortex's place, it could be many things. My favorite of them all, a ground-up RMC, whether it be a Hybrid(Steel) or wooden RMC. Other models I enjoy that could fill the land include, B&M Dive, Gerstlauer Infinity, Mack Multi-Launch, or the least likely of them all, Intiman Blitz.

[silver2005]

Here's my running theory on the timing of The Vortex removal announcement.

We haven't really seen a big Arrow looping coaster go down due to pure fatigue yet.  Yes, some have been torn down already, but realistically, none of those were at the end of their lifespans.

Examples-

Shockwave @ Six Flags Great America- Six Flags originally wanted to put Superman: Ultimate Flight in Whizzer's spot, and due to the Save Whizzer campaign, they went with Shockwave's removal instead.  

Great American Scream Machine @ Six Flags Great Adventure- Shortly after Six Flags left Kentucky Kingdom, they took Chang to be relocated to Great Adventure, and GASM had dwindling ridership at the time which made that an easy decision.

Steel Phantom @ Kennywood- Most people know of that one- it was made too big and fast for what it was, then Morgan came in and transformed it into one of the best steel coasters anywhere.

I'm not familiar with Orient Express' reason for removal from Worlds of Fun.

So with that, given Vortex's age, it is really the first one to make it to this stage and the oldest of the bigger Arrow looping coasters left (Anaconda and Viper were built after Vortex). 

Now, given the late season timing, I'm guessing something came up that Kings Island took note of as being a sign of that fatigue, enough to out-price its ROI, and something I imagine S&S has studied in taking up the Arrow parts supply.  I'm sure all designers keep track of how their rides age.  It probably just so happens it was noticed in the middle of their Orion hype campaign, thus, it was announced a bit after Orion as the best way the park had under those circumstances to give it its time.   

[HandsUp]

I have plenty of sentimentality and memories tied up in Vortex...and my son (7) absolutely loves it. I'll be sure to get a last ride in, but let's be honest: It is way cooler to look at than to ride these days. I can't remember the last time there was a line for it (which is one of the reasons my son loves it)-so I'm sure it was a simple numbers decision...if there's any ride I want preserved as long as possible, it's The Beast. When I was young, we had the Cobra, Racer, Beast and Vortex were it as far as coasters. Now the lineup is much better and I have faith that they'll populate the area with something of substance. 

[Outdoor Man]

On 9/29/2019 at 8:04 PM, SonofBaconator said:

I'm sure there's a strategy to what they're doing. @JubJester mentioned how FH and VX's removal announcements were exactly a year apart so that isn't a coincidence. Additionally I don't know of a functioning amusement park that has removed two coasters back to back. 

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but is the park telling guests to get their final rides on it? I remember they did for Firehawk but I don't remember seeing a statement by the park telling people when Vortex will have its last day.

Its all kinda fishy

Actually, if not mistaken, the park has mentioned "final" rides.  

If it is more of a maintenance/cost issue to open next year than timing- it could theoretically be SBNO for a season (2020).  SOB was SBNO for almost three seasons while "next" was created/finalized.  The original Bat (in that plot) was SBNO for at least two seasons.  

If nothing is going in there until 2022... I could see it SBNO for 2020 and construction zone for 2021.  Just saying I've seen the word retired... not demolished.  And you don't just spend millions of $ to refurbish a steel coaster like you would a wooden coaster.

 

[Bennett]

I've said since day one of this announcement...look carefully at the wording used.  I cannot stand to ride Vortex anymore, and wouldn't lose a minutes sleep if it was torn down tomorrow.  

Nowhere have I seen the word removed, demolished, taken down from the KI folks.  Take that, and add the last minute nature of the announcement.  

I am doubtful it is coming down...but it is changing. 

[Bdd127]

I just don't see the park investing to change a ride that is already 33 years old, even if it is not actually at the end of its service life, who knows how much time the track/structure has left

[silver2005]

22 minutes ago, Bennett said:

I've said since day one of this announcement...look carefully at the wording used.  I cannot stand to ride Vortex anymore, and wouldn't lose a minutes sleep if it was torn down tomorrow.  

Nowhere have I seen the word removed, demolished, taken down from the KI folks.  Take that, and add the last minute nature of the announcement.  

I am doubtful it is coming down...but it is changing. 

But CP never said anything similar to Mantis 'reaching the end of its service life' in regards to its transformation into Rougarou.  KI has also done more recent interviews stating rides like Vortex lasting only 25 years alluding to that premise. 

[SnakePlissken]

There's a certain well known youtuber who just put out a video claiming it could be an issue with the brakes due to stacking on the brake run. Another person who has operated some of those older Arrows commented on said video. They pretty much debunked that theory and said its likely an issue with the control system. They said all late 80's Arrow's have issues with the controls and some like Magnum and Iron Dragon have been replaced. They said its expensive and the park likely did not want to spend the money to do it.