Coronavirus Impacting Theme Parks

[disco2000]

59 minutes ago, King Ding Dong said:

Indeed and we know just to person to write those volumes.

You got that right

[MDMC01]

So, there are a group of reporter trainers you can battle in Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald and after the battle, they ask you to give your thoughts on the battle. In honor of COVID-19...

Happy Friday, everyone!

EDIT: It may be hard to read, but the text says: The Trainer replied, "Stay-at-Home"

[lifetimecoaster]

9 hours ago, King Ding Dong said:

Scientists, statisticians, MDs, politicians etc. will have to make decisions about what group gatherings are allowed to exist that those individuals can then make their decisions about attending. The risks are not just to the individual attending but everyone those individuals come into contact with after such event, be it a retail environment, them park swimming pool, concert, their job such as a health care or a educator. 
 

I like you BJ but sorry if I do not trust your judgement to exclusively to determine acceptable risk for everyone you come into contact with and then who they come in contact with, etc.  This entire situation is not about an individual conducting their their own individual risk assessment.  This is about public health which is much more complex.  
 

Flattening the curve is imprecise.  The goal is to never overwhelm the HC system, in order to do that the brakes have to be applied enough to make sure we don’t cross that line, of course the ride computer will undershoot that line every time resulting in a less than optimal ride, but ensuring the train makes it back to the station. You seem to argue it is OK if we do cross that line. To bad so sad to those on that train. 

  I think in a way, you just continued his point, as opposed to disproving it. If it's up to people if they want to risk it, then it's up to those people. If someone goes to a concert, and gets infected, the only people they should be coming into contact with, are other people that have chosen to risk it, because people who don't want to risk it, should be in their house. In the "lets let people decide on their own what's right for them" model, the only people getting sick, should be the people who have rightly chosen to risk their health by being out and living. 

[gforce1994]

Stay at home order extended to May 29th.

[lifetimecoaster]

55 minutes ago, gforce1994 said:

Stay at home order extended to May 29th.

Awesome, I suppose that means Indiana will end up doing the same. I'm done, it's time to start thinking about looking for another country to live in now. 

[chad_1138]

1 minute ago, lifetimecoaster said:

Awesome, I suppose that means Indiana will end up doing the same. I'm done, it's time to start thinking about looking for another country to live in now. 

We will find out at 2:30 today.

[beastfan11]

8 minutes ago, lifetimecoaster said:

Awesome, I suppose that means Indiana will end up doing the same. I'm done, it's time to start thinking about looking for another country to live in now. 

This is extremely dramatic. 

[Kenban]

1 hour ago, lifetimecoaster said:

  I think in a way, you just continued his point, as opposed to disproving it. If it's up to people if they want to risk it, then it's up to those people. If someone goes to a concert, and gets infected, the only people they should be coming into contact with, are other people that have chosen to risk it, because people who don't want to risk it, should be in their house. In the "lets let people decide on their own what's right for them" model, the only people getting sick, should be the people who have rightly chosen to risk their health by being out and living. 

The problem is this is not about just you or your health.  This effects society as a whole, and all members of the general public.  You cannot just risk yourself, as soon as you go to a general point of contact like a grocery store, or an office, the doctor, a gas station, etc you are suddenly risking everyone else.  The only way is to totally remove one group from the other, they have to completely cut themselves off from the other.  This is the same thing with masks, your not risking just yourself by not wearing one, you are risking everyone else around you. 

This is no different then laws against smoking in public, and requirements that you have car insurance.  I know its hard to do but you need to stop thinking about just yourself and think about everyone else.

[ThrillKingsFitzy]

https://www.indystar.com/story/news/health/2020/05/01/coronavirus-indiana-where-we-stand-reopening-guidelines/3043204001/

Now it says coronavirus cases have gone up 15% in Indiana, but that is mostly because near to 900 Tyson workers got tested for coronavirus.

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

Turns out on May 4th, construction and offices can reopen. I'm guessing what that means for KI is that they can finish up on maintenance and construction projects as well as bring back some of the full timers into the offices, but I could still see them work from home for the time being. The stay at home order is now expected to expire on the 29th. Now that very well could be extended, but atm I think DeWine will let that expire since that should be around the time we enter phase two. I think we are now looking at a mid June opening at the earliest. However, they could maybe reopen sooner if 1) the offseason projects and maintenance can begin to finish up around May 4th. 2) Testing can begin around that time and 3) the park does virtual training or small group training at the park.

[thisplaceisnuts]

4 hours ago, lifetimecoaster said:

  I think in a way, you just continued his point, as opposed to disproving it. If it's up to people if they want to risk it, then it's up to those people. If someone goes to a concert, and gets infected, the only people they should be coming into contact with, are other people that have chosen to risk it, because people who don't want to risk it, should be in their house. In the "lets let people decide on their own what's right for them" model, the only people getting sick, should be the people who have rightly chosen to risk their health by being out and living. 

Cool. What about the people they come into contact with who are generally staying home, but have to go out to necessary places like grocery stores, pharmacies, gas stations, etc.? They didn't "decide on their own" to be around someone who went to a huge gathering, it happened by chance.

Amusement parks cannot safely or sanely open and please its guests fully until we've reached herd immunity or a proven vaccine is developed. Both are a long way off. Full stop.

[Winterfestguy]

There are so many issues for Cedar Fair management to consider prior to any of their park openings.  The recommendation to help stop any potential spread of the virus has been to go to all disposable utensil items. So will their souvenir bottles be allowed when the parks first open as opposed to the disposable paper cup option? (Starbucks and Dunkin have both gone away from the reusable cup option during the pandemic.  However, all park websites are still offering their souvenir bottles for sale). And what about all those “bulk” ketchup and mustard dispensers (where everyone is pushing the pump all the time with their hands?).   If they set out packets to use, just think of all the hands that reach in to get some those packets.  So many things that must be considered prior to any opening.

[Thabto]

Some restaurants I recently went to have been keeping condiments behind the counter and you have to ask for them. I don't see reusable cups being allowed at all, they may still sell them for those who wish to buy them for collective purposes but you will not be allowed to use them for drinks in the park. And I would also think that self serve drinks wouldn't be allowed either, but you have to ask what drink you want and they get it for you, with a clean cup each time. 

[SonofBaconator]

Before the shut down happened, the arena I worked at discontinued their souvenir bottles and replaced them with paper cups so people weren't handing their bottles over and cross contaminating everything behind the drink counter

[PatchesC]

1 hour ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

Turns out on May 4th, construction and offices can reopen. I'm guessing what that means for KI is that they can finish up on maintenance and construction projects as well as bring back some of the full timers into the offices, but I could still see them work from home for the time being. The stay at home order is now expected to expire on the 29th. Now that very well could be extended, but atm I think DeWine will let that expire since that should be around the time we enter phase two. I think we are now looking at a mid June opening at the earliest. However, they could maybe reopen sooner if 1) the offseason projects and maintenance can begin to finish up around May 4th. 2) Testing can begin around that time and 3) the park does virtual training or small group training at the park.

After reading through the order, good news is it can be modified before the end date as usual. But out of state travelers are expected to still quarantine for 14 days.

[lifetimecoaster]

33 minutes ago, thisplaceisnuts said:

Cool. What about the people they come into contact with who are generally staying home, but have to go out to necessary places like grocery stores, pharmacies, gas stations, etc.? They didn't "decide on their own" to be around someone who went to a huge gathering, it happened by chance.

Amusement parks cannot safely or sanely open and please its guests fully until we've reached herd immunity or a proven vaccine is developed. Both are a long way off. Full stop.

  Sounds to me that if they're out and about they've made that choice. They've made the choice to go get groceries instead of having them delivered, and why would you need to be at a gas station if you've chosen to stay at home. See, this is where a lot of people are really losing me. There's all these things that you "have to do" but you don't actually have to do them. Most folks are having groceries delivered. Most folks are having their drugs delivered. If you're staying home, you won't need to purchase gas, because your car isn't going anywhere to require gas. If you're currently leaving your house, you're choosing to do so. I work in an essential business. I've been out here in this terrifying world every day. I'm being fed to the wolves because I'm "essential" (to those of us that are tired of hearing that word, we actually hear "expendable" FYI). Most of us are getting really tired of people who are sitting in their safe zones talking about how dangerous it is to reopen businesses. It's too dangerous for you, but for us, well, if we die, we die. And yup, you're right (I can read your mind) I've made the decision to still go to work and do my thing, because that's what I do. Most of my customers are doctors and nurses that are working with this virus, so for all intents and purposes, my likelihood of exposure is SIGNIFICANTLY high. I'm just over here doing what I do, but I'm getting real sick and tired of folks telling me in a round about way how unimportant we are. 

[disco2000]

1 hour ago, Winterfestguy said:

There are so many issues for Cedar Fair management to consider prior to any of their park openings.  The recommendation to help stop any potential spread of the virus has been to go to all disposable utensil items. So will their souvenir bottles be allowed when the parks first open as opposed to the disposable paper cup option? (Starbucks and Dunkin have both gone away from the reusable cup option during the pandemic.  However, all park websites are still offering their souvenir bottles for sale). And what about all those “bulk” ketchup and mustard dispensers (where everyone is pushing the pump all the time with their hands?).   If they set out packets to use, just think of all the hands that reach in to get some those packets.  So many things that must be considered prior to any opening.

And let's not forget if they do allow the souvenir bottles, in all likelihood we will see a return (hopefully only temporarily) to the days of the employee filling said cups.  Many recommendations elsewhere for food establishments are that customers do not fill their own drinks to remain contact free, so no FreeStyle machines for awhile either probably...

What this will mean is the employee with gloves on is making the dudes food in front of you in line.  Dude hands employee their nasty germ ridden cup that has followed them into the bathroom and left not washing their hands, etc.  Employee with gloves on takes said cup, fills it up, returns cup to dude.  Maybe they dipped the cup into the ice to save time (I have seen that happen too in the past).  Employee wearing the same gloves, but now all germ ridden, then asks you for your order and proceeds to make it.  I avoided the places that this was common place at.  Some of the food places in the past were set up in such a way this was the norm.

This scenario happened a lot in the past.  I would make complaints to guest services as that is a Board of Health violation.  In the unlikely event I happened to be the recipient of that happening to me while in line, I would take the food to guest services with me and tell them what happened and was like "here lunch is on me" and watch their reaction.  One of the few times you would actually see action happen to a complaint and they would immediately call someone high up to come speak to me to hear it themselves.  I would look first for a supervisor at the food place, but a lot of times there wasn't one, so I had to go to guest services.

Eventually they went to the guests fill their own drink cups.  Generally sped the line up in the process.  With the return of Winterfest, it brought this scenario again refilling hot chocolate cups the first year.  I went to guest services.  Procedure was changed.

[King Ding Dong]

@lifetimecoaster Those that have been designated essential or first responder (my wife) don’t really have a choice. Yours is HC related hers is communications infrastructure.  They work or they resign and then are not eligible for unemployment so now they are on the street homeless.  That is not really a “choice”.

It is really sad to so many people think only of themselves and not of community.  

[jimlaheyscar]

5 hours ago, lifetimecoaster said:

Awesome, I suppose that means Indiana will end up doing the same. I'm done, it's time to start thinking about looking for another country to live in now. 

Try Korea.   Some of their parks never shut down.

 

Forgot an important word above.

 

 

[disco2000]

5 minutes ago, jimlaheyscar said:

Try Korea.   Their parks never shut down.

 

Really, explain away the 19 parks on this list that closed...several of which are indeed theme | amusement parks...Looks like a lot shut down in Korea to me...

https://english.visitkorea.or.kr/enu/AKR/FU_EN_15.jsp?cid=2648107

[chad_1138]

Halcomb just announced Indiana's plan.  The Stage for amusement parks to be open (doesn't help KI or CP) hits on June 14, barring any setbacks.  The final stage of back to "new normal" is July 4.

[disco2000]

6 minutes ago, chad_1138 said:

Halcomb just announced Indiana's plan.  The Stage for amusement parks to be open (doesn't help KI or CP) hits on June 14, barring any setbacks.  The final stage of back to "new normal" is July 4.

That is an indicator though.  The surrounding states have all had somewhat similar outlines and timelines, give or take, so I think Ohio will end up with something similar. 

However, as pointed out previously, people are starting to recognize that just because a state opens up a sector, doesn't mean that companies in that sector will open.

It also doesn't mean that customers will visit companies if they are not comfortable or unwilling to comply with whatever requirements are set forth for entry into their establishment.

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

Ohio said during the press conference is that the entire month of May is basically going to be focused on getting things ready to open up. He also mentioned that different industries are going to come up with their own plans to open. 

[PatchesC]

16 minutes ago, chad_1138 said:

Halcomb just announced Indiana's plan.  The Stage for amusement parks to be open (doesn't help KI or CP) hits on June 14, barring any setbacks.  The final stage of back to "new normal" is July 4.

Will require 50% capacity at June 14th also. I noticed a 2 week gap between the previous stage instead of 1 week like stages 1-3. So it does give them a bit of a buffer and ability to change dates. 

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

Here's an article about DeWine's new order:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/local12.com/amp/news/local/dewine-stay-at-home-order-moves-to-stay-safe-ohio-order-as-state-moves-to-reopen

[gforce1994]

Here’s the flaw in most of the reopening plans, as of this moment they’re targeting those with current symptoms rather than ensuring that nobody inside the park would have COVID-19.

Parks are trying to do temperature checks-that is going to end in disaster because they’re not checking for asymptomatic individuals.

They indicate they’ll be cleaning throughout the day - at what interval? A person that is asymptomatic may take a seat in an assigned coaster seat, and leave the active virus on the ride seat and lap bar. If they clean every few cycles you’re going to be having transmissions that will be traced to the park.

Food and Drink - lets be honest they’re likely going to be having employees pour the drinks this year. However, if an individual who is asymptomatic hands the worker their souvenir cup, without taking their gloves off, they might be transmitting the virus to everyone who orders from that location.

The plans suggested only masks for workers. This again will be a mess. The rate of transmission ,with asymptomatic carriers not wearing a mask, is 70%. This is for people wearing masks! With both parties wearing masks, the rate of transmission is 1.5%. When the parks open, they have to provide everyone with N95 masks, or else, the park will become a hot spot for transmission.

Do I think it’s good that the parks are looking at ways of dealing with COVID-19: Yes.

Do I think the plans proposed are acceptable and efficient in dealing with COVID-19: Far from it.

[LovinMeSomeBanshee]

31 minutes ago, gforce1994 said:

Here’s the flaw in most of the reopening plans, as of this moment they’re targeting those with current symptoms rather than ensuring that nobody inside the park would have COVID-19.

Parks are trying to do temperature checks-that is going to end in disaster because they’re not checking for asymptomatic individuals.

They indicate they’ll be cleaning throughout the day - at what interval? A person that is asymptomatic may take a seat in an assigned coaster seat, and leave the active virus on the ride seat and lap bar. If they clean every few cycles you’re going to be having transmissions that will be traced to the park.

Food and Drink - lets be honest they’re likely going to be having employees pour the drinks this year. However, if an individual who is asymptomatic hands the worker their souvenir cup, without taking their gloves off, they might be transmitting the virus to everyone who orders from that location.

The plans suggested only masks for workers. This again will be a mess. The rate of transmission ,with asymptomatic carriers not wearing a mask, is 70%. This is for people wearing masks! With both parties wearing masks, the rate of transmission is 1.5%. When the parks open, they have to provide everyone with N95 masks, or else, the park will become a hot spot for transmission.

Do I think it’s good that the parks are looking at ways of dealing with COVID-19: Yes.

Do I think the plans proposed are acceptable and efficient in dealing with COVID-19: Far from it.

So what do you propose?  How do you check for asymptomatic individuals if they by definition show no symptoms?

You're not going to make it completely safe for everyone.  It's impossible at this point.  Kings Island would be wise to advise those at high-risk with certain medical conditions to stay home.  There's not much else they can do but this, or remain closed.  And file for bankruptcy if they DO choose to remain closed, because the genie is out of the bottle, and the coronavirus isn't going away.

[gforce1994]

11 minutes ago, LovinMeSomeBanshee said:

So what do you propose?  How do you check for asymptomatic individuals if they by definition show no symptoms?

You're not going to make it completely safe for everyone.  It's impossible at this point.  Kings Island would be wise to advise those at high-risk with certain medical conditions to stay home.  There's not much else they can do but this, or remain closed.  And file for bankruptcy if they DO choose to remain closed, because the genie is out of the bottle, and the coronavirus isn't going away.

There’s quick tests for asymptomatic and visible carriers that can be done in 30 min.

Well, the park is going to have to be 100% safe if it reopens up, they can’t allow the virus to be transmitted at all at the parks. Here’s the thing, if they do not do the COVID-19 precautions properly, people will die, and worst case scenario is having a city-wide or multi-state outbreak being linked to the park. 

[BeeastFarmer]

@gforce1994 Again with the fatalism. Nothing in this world is 100% safe. Nothing. Because that means anything comes with a zero percent chance of risk. Even taking a breath involves risk.

And providing N95 masks is not the way to go. If they are not fit tested, the mask is absolutely pointless.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[IndyGuy4KI]

11 minutes ago, gforce1994 said:

Well, the park is going to have to be 100% safe if it reopens up.

There is no way to guarantee that ever.  Secondly, anyone at this point who walks into the park is taking a risk of possible exposure. Either you take the risk or you don't. To me it is no different than the warning signs before you get into the ride queue, but now that sign resides at your front door as you walk out.