Kings Island's next big coaster a ground-up R.M.C?

[coaster sally]

Universal has stepped up construction on the velocicoaster to drive attendance when the pandemic lifts.

Credit to midway mayhem 

If that sweet heartline over the water with the twistiness is any indication this ride will rival critically acclaimed taron.  Like always I will judge the ride after riding.  I am just excited for this and pantheon as competition is great for everyone.

[SonofBaconator]

I remember talking to CF executives back in 2018 and asked them where their relationship with Intamin stood as of that time. One person said they were happy that Intamin gave them rides like Millenium Force, Wicked Twister, Top Thrill Dragster, and Maverick since those were huge crowd pleasers. However, their reliability is what made them have a falling out in a ways. I recall one exec saying the cost to operate those Intamins had rose over 50% since their installations. They were also told by Intamin that Top Thrill Dragster would never stall after it was built which was a blatant lie since its happened a few times since. People were complaining that CP went with B&Ms between 2013-2016 but in reality that ended up saving them a ton of money in maintence costs. They said they'd never stop working with B&M because of this so don't be suprised if more come to the chain this decade. Going back to Intamin, they make fun rides but they've put themselves in a position where some chains would rather opt to work with another manufacturer. Will Intamin return to Cedar Fair? It would be dumb to say no honestly, but they're not going to be installing gigas, giant blitzs, etc right out the gate. I could see CF giving them a chance and go small like a compact shuttle like Wicked Twister or something like Maverick for a park like Canada's Wonderland, Great America, or something. For now though, companies like B&M, Mack, Gerstlauer,  & S&S seem more appealing. I'm sorry if people love Intamin so much but from a business standpoint its not worth the risk for Cedar Fair to go back to them at this time. Universal and Sea World Parks can take this risk because they're in the postion where they want to attract more visitors from across the country that'll probably visit once a year. For the regional parks like Cedar Fair, it doesn't make sense to buy from a manufacturer that is known for downtime when a decent chunk of their parks aren't open the full year. Poor reliability and maintence plagued rides aren't a friend of seasonal parks which is why CF has been removing problematic rides the past few years.

[Kenban]

13 hours ago, coaster sally said:

Cedar Fair will buy an intamin before the next b&m(sans the hyper at great america).

Not a chance, Cedar Fair and Intamin show no signs of making up.  It was only last year that Cedar Fair was basically publicly airing issues they had with Intamin and supply issues of parts to fix older rides.  When you have Cedar Fair stating they have had parts orders take 9 months to arrive there is a problem.  Its going to take a lot more then a few good rides at other parks for them to totally change their opinions.  Cedar Fair places too much value on reliability, downtime, and maintenance costs.

With Kings Dominion removing Volcano, and all the rumors and leaks point at Possessed at Dorney getting removed later this year, and Carowinds removing their Intamin raft ride, if anything it feels like Cedar Fair is trying to move farther away from Intamin.

[BeeastFarmer]

^Just don't remove our WWCanyons and Eifel Towers!

[Rivertown Rider]

Like others have said, I doubt we will see Intamin come to a CF park anytime soon.

I'm more curious if we will see another RMC installation after the headaches they have had with SV and to a lesser extent TT.

[SonofBaconator]

On 7/17/2020 at 12:32 PM, Rivertown Rider said:

I'm more curious if we will see another RMC installation after the headaches they have had with SV and to a lesser extent TT.

I think RMC came in and did their job. Mean Streak and Hurler needed to be converted. There's not a lot of other Cedar Fair woodies that I think would benefit from the Iron Horse treatment. The only ones that come to mind are Grizzly at Great America or Wolverine Wildcat at Michigan's Adventure. I think if RMC wanted to earn CF's trust back, they'd be brought in to work the coasters I just mentioned. We certainly don't need RMC to touch any of our wooden coasters.

[Rivertown Rider]

Yeah we definitely don't need any conversions at KI.  My thoughts are more I'm curious if they will ever do a ground up RMC woodie at KI or if CF looks at RMC and sees more headaches than they are worth.

[SonofBaconator]

1 hour ago, Rivertown Rider said:

Yeah we definitely don't need any conversions at KI.  My thoughts are more I'm curious if they will ever do a ground up RMC woodie at KI or if CF looks at RMC and sees more headaches than they are worth.

I think the big issue is RMC debuted their new trains when Cedar Fair contracted them. I dare say if Hurler had trains that were similar to Goliath or Twisted Colossus, it wouldn't have had its issues. I'm not sure if the old type of RMC trains could have worked on Steel Vengeance though.

That or RMC didn't have has good of reliability as we thought since Six Flags was their primary client and we all know how reliable their rides are. I could understand if they would run in issues with steel Vengeance giving its size and length. Hurler on the other hand should have been walk in the park for them which is why I think it was the new trains that caused the headaches.

[BeastForever]

As a follow-up to what I've said earlier on Intamin's portfolio being very closely mimicked by other firms, it is for this reason that I'm skeptical as to why it is so imperative to Intamin fans that Cedar Fair buy an another product from them, when there are many Intamin-like coasters offered from other manufacturers now.

There was a time why I was somewhat on the bandwagon of wanting an Intamin coaster built at Kings Island someday, but like I've said things have changed, and competing companies have evolved to the point where I'm honestly indifferent at this point.

If there are two types of coaster that I'd always dreamed of coming to KI they would be a blitz coaster or Accelerator coaster. It wasn't too long ago that Intamin was the only company that could offer such attractions, but...

Then came Blue Fire in 2009 - Mack's answer to the next generation of launched coasters that Maverick inspired.

Then came Extreme Rusher in 2011. S&S fixes the problems Hypersonic suffered from and a new wave of ~80mph+ launchers are set in motion, that offer experiences similar to the problematic hydraulic system (which to Intamin's credit even they've abandoned).

--

Long story short, name almost any type/model of Intamin coaster and a fairly similar ride can be named from another another manufacturer.

[coaster sally]

Outlaw run is already getting pretty rough for a number of years vs a pre fab.

[coaster sally]

On 7/17/2020 at 9:08 PM, BeastForever said:

As a follow-up to what I've said earlier on Intamin's portfolio being very closely mimicked by other firms, it is for this reason that I'm skeptical as to why it is so imperative to Intamin fans that Cedar Fair buy an another product from them.

There was a time why I was somewhat on the bandwagon of wanting an Intamin coaster built at Kings Island someday, but like I've said things have changed, and competing companies have evolved to the point where I'm honestly indifferent at this point.

If there are two types of coaster that I'd always dreamed of coming to KI they would be a blitz coaster or Accelerator coaster. It wasn't too long ago that Intamin was the only company that could offer such attractions, but...

Then came Blue Fire in 2009 - Mack's answer to the next generation of launched coasters that Maverick inspired.

Then came Extreme Rusher in 2011. S&S fixes the problems Hypersonic suffered from and a new wave of ~80mph+ launchers are set in motion, that offer experiences similar to the problematic hydraulic system (which to Intamin's credit even they've abandoned).

--

Long story short, name almost any type/model of Intamin coaster and a fairly similar ride can be named from another another manufacturer.

S&s has a large # of problems with their recent rides.  Extreme rusher, ring racer, gale force, etc.  The newest mid level air launch coaster maxx force has only been in operation for a few months.  Intamin's Storm Runner up until this year has been running very consistently since 2004.  

Its true that other manufacturers have brought out designs to rival intamins flagship products but intamin has improved on their designs as well keeping their product ahead of the competition.

You have to keep in mind that the rides people always moan and groan about were years ahead of their times.

[Shawn Meyer]

On 7/7/2020 at 8:55 AM, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

I hate to burst your bubble, but I think they're just removing the footers to remove them. I doubt they have anything planned for that site yet since the removal was so sudden. Plus they just spent $30M on Orion.

While I agree with your point about the demolition being so sudden, I respectively disagree that they don't have something planned in that area. I feel like they're next roller coaster is still in the planning and they know who they want to go with as far as next roller coaster manufacturer. Tearing out the footers now gives them the time to plan out the layout for their next roller coaster. I believe we'll see a ground up rmc in the former spot of Vortex. Just my opinion there. I also believe we won't see that new roller coaster until 2022-2023, due to the pandemic we're all in right now.

[IndyGuy4KI]

I moved the Intamin discussion here:

 https://kicentral.com/forums/index.php?/topic/32673-is-intamin-coming-back-to-cedar-fair/page/3/

 

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

Here's a nolimits2 concept someone made for a ground up RMC topper track woodie in Vortex's land!

 

[FUN&ONLY!]

9 hours ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

Here's a nolimits2 concept someone made for a ground up RMC topper track woodie in Vortex's land!

 

I am not a fan of the colors, but an RMC like that would look really good there and be a great ride!

[SonofBaconator]

Can Son of Beast remain buried? The only thing people still really praise it for are the stats it had. The ride experience was painful and sent numerous people to the hospital. The name itself triggers old memories from people that are not always pleasant. Can't there be an original ride name? No "Son of Beast 2.0", "The Beast Unleashed", "Son if Beast Returns" etc. Lets just remember SOB for what it was, an infamous ride that had a dull layout with some impressive stats. It was a wakeup call to the industry that the world wasn't ready for 200ft wooden coasters.

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

1 hour ago, SonofBaconator said:

Can Son of Beast remain buried? The only thing people still really praise it for are the stats it had. The ride experience was painful and sent numerous people to the hospital. The name itself triggers old memories from people that are not always pleasant. Can't there be an original ride name? No "Son of Beast 2.0", "The Beast Unleashed", "Son if Beast Returns" etc. Lets just remember SOB for what it was, an infamous ride that had a dull layout with some impressive stats. It was a wakeup call to the industry that the world wasn't ready for 200ft wooden coasters.

I agree 100%! As much as I love his concept, I don't think KI or CF would want to resurrect Son of Beast in any way. I think if KI gets an RMC like this, it would have its own theme. 

[SonofBaconator]

45 minutes ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

I agree 100%! As much as I love his concept, I don't think KI or CF would want to resurrect Son of Beast in any way. I think if KI gets an RMC like this, it would have its own theme. 

I don't mean to sound like a downer but I don't see us getting a gigantic RMC anytime within the next decade. We really don't need one. What we need is a 6+ inversion coaster. Would I love an RMC? Yes, but its not necessary. Look how long it took us to get a giga. I think if we ever got anything from RMC it would be something like Outlaw Run from Silver Dollar City- nothing huge like Steel Vengeance, Wildfire, Goliath, etc.

[DeltaFlyer]

1 hour ago, SonofBaconator said:

I don't mean to sound like a downer but I don't see us getting a gigantic RMC anytime within the next decade. We really don't need one. What we need is a 6+ inversion coaster. Would I love an RMC? Yes, but its not necessary. Look how long it took us to get a giga. I think if we ever got anything from RMC it would be something like Outlaw Run from Silver Dollar City- nothing huge like Steel Vengeance, Wildfire, Goliath, etc.

Why not a smaller RMC (Like Twisted Timbers size) that has the most inversions on a Hybrid? Or perhaps the first vertical loop on a Hybrid?

[SonofBaconator]

6 minutes ago, DeltaFlyer said:

Why not a smaller RMC (Like Twisted Timbers size) that has the most inversions on a Hybrid? Or perhaps the first vertical loop on a Hybrid?

That would be awesome as well. As I stated earlier though, I don't think we need one. We already have a solid lineup at the moment and our next coaster should focus on a lot of inversions. After that, coaster-wise, I think we should get another family type of coaster like a spinner, wild mouse, or something along those lines. Maybe even a 50ft gravity group woodie in Planet Snoopy would be welcomed 

[BeeastFarmer]

^You just love those spinners, dont you @SonofBaconator?  I'll ride it with you if you dont mind seeing me vomit after the ride is over!  lol

[DeltaFlyer]

1 hour ago, SonofBaconator said:

I think we should get another family type of coaster like a spinner, wild mouse, or something along those lines. Maybe even a 50ft gravity group woodie in Planet Snoopy would be welcomed 

I LOVE Exterminator at Kennywood. Put that in the TR:TR building and I'll be a happy camper. 

Kentucky Flyer is incredibly fun and re-rideable. I would not be upset with that in Planet Snoopy either!

[silver2005]

For a spinner, I'd prefer a Maurer similar to Laff Trak at HP over a Reverchon like Exterminator.  Much easier on the spinning, more interesting layouts, and comfier cars.  

[coaster sally]

Steel curtain is still down and may not even open this year....So much for s&s reliability that is mentioned in this thread.

[Shawn Meyer]

^ That's a huge fumble for Steeler nation. I guess the Bengals will get the ball now. Lol

[SonofBaconator]

On 7/17/2020 at 11:11 AM, Kenban said:

With Kings Dominion removing Volcano, and all the rumors and leaks point at Possessed at Dorney getting removed later this year, and Carowinds removing their Intamin raft ride, if anything it feels like Cedar Fair is trying to move farther away from Intamin.

I wonder if Wicked Twister will last through the decade. It doesn't take up a lot of space to warrant a removal in that sense but if Cedar Fair is continuing the trend of removing Intamins, axing Wicked Twister would make the most logical sense. 

[Kenban]

5 hours ago, SonofBaconator said:

I wonder if Wicked Twister will last through the decade. It doesn't take up a lot of space to warrant a removal in that sense but if Cedar Fair is continuing the trend of removing Intamins, axing Wicked Twister would make the most logical sense. 

Cedar Fair’s policy is they want rides to last 20 years.  It’s not that will not remove them early if they are garbage or will not keep them longer, just 20 years is basically the baseline.  Universal has a similar policy to an extent but they lean a lot harder toward replacement or renovations after 20 years.
 

For instance Possessed was originally built at Geauga Lake in 2000 making it 20 years old this year, assuming it does end up being removed.  Volcano 1998 to 2018.  Does that mean Wicked Twister will be removed in 2022? Not really, Possessed is the oldest surviving impulse coaster and it’s common for later versions of ride models to be more reliable and less costly to maintain then the earlier versions.

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

3 minutes ago, Kenban said:

Cedar Fair’s policy is they want rides to last 20 years.  It’s not that will not remove them early if they are garbage or will not keep them longer, just 20 years is basically the baseline.  Universal has a similar policy to an extent but they lean a lot harder toward replacement or renovations after 20 years.
 

For instance Possessed was originally built at Geauga Lake in 2000 making it 20 years old this year, assuming it does end up being removed.  Volcano 1998 to 2018.  Does that mean Wicked Twister will be removed in 2022? Not really, Possessed is the oldest surviving impulse coaster and it’s common for later versions of ride models to be more reliable and less costly to maintain then the earlier versions.

Hopefully Orion doesn't get removed in 2040. Or Diamondback in 2029. Or Banshee in 2034. 

[SonofBaconator]

8 minutes ago, Kenban said:

Cedar Fair’s policy is they want rides to last 20 years.  It’s not that will not remove them early if they are garbage or will not keep them longer, just 20 years is basically the baseline.  Universal has a similar policy to an extent but they lean a lot harder toward replacement or renovations after 20 years.
 

For instance Possessed was originally built at Geauga Lake in 2000 making it 20 years old this year, assuming it does end up being removed.  Volcano 1998 to 2018.  Does that mean Wicked Twister will be removed in 2022? Not really, Possessed is the oldest surviving impulse coaster and it’s common for later versions of ride models to be more reliable and less costly to maintain then the earlier versions.

So in theory for some of our baselines would be:

The Bat- 2013

Backlot- 2025

Invertigo- 2019

Flight of Fear- 2016

 

I'm not questioning your logic or Cedar Fair's policy but wouldn't 30 years be a more accurate baseline assuming reliability isn't an issue?

[purdude86]

Yea 20 years seems like a pretty low timeline for a major ride and investment like that.