Rivertown Redevelopment

[medford]

On 8/26/2022 at 11:35 AM, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

Please no dive coaster. There are plenty of better coaster options than a dive coaster imo. If there were to be a dive coaster added, I hope it'd be a gerstlauer infinity and not a B&M. 

Well then substitute Dive Coaster for whatever your preferred choice is.  I tend to think KI will get a Dive Coaster either in Vortex's spot or where Invertigo stands today within the next 10 years.  Whatever that spot ends up being, redoing the restaurant so you can have views of the new ride while eating on the back deck would be pretty cool.

[SonofBaconator]

1 hour ago, medford said:

Well then substitute Dive Coaster for whatever your preferred choice is.  I tend to think KI will get a Dive Coaster either in Vortex's spot or where Invertigo stands today within the next 10 years.  Whatever that spot ends up being, redoing the restaurant so you can have views of the new ride while eating on the back deck would be pretty cool.

I argue our park is too large for Gerstlauer. Unless they come up with a train to accommodate 28-32 passengers, which they’ve never done on an Infinity Coaster, I don’t see it happening. 
 

Love them or hate them, B&M has provided us with 3 reliable coasters and with their track being manufactured in the neighboring county, I don’t see them not returning. 

[purdude86]

12 minutes ago, SonofBaconator said:

I argue our park is too large for Gerstlauer. Unless they come up with a train to accommodate 28-32 passengers, which they’ve never done on an Infinity Coaster, I don’t see it happening. 
 

Love them or hate them, B&M has provided us with 3 reliable coasters and with their track being manufactured in the neighboring county, I don’t see them not returning. 

I don't think we are too big for a Gerstlauer. They can do at least 16 seats per train. This is more than BLSC and only one car less than Flight of Fear. Probably higher capacity than Invertigo as well. And honestly if Cedar Point thinks a wild mouse can handle their crowds than an Infinity coaster would be fine at Kings Island. It probably wouldn't be as quick of a line as the B&Ms but would still work.

That said, your points for B&M are very true and would not be surprised to see more from them. There are still wing, dive and flying coasters that would be different from what we currently have. And while enthusiasts might not all be hyped about a dive coaster, they are popular with the general public so could see one of them going in.

[silver2005]

^^I disagree, Knotts has one and they're comparable to KI in size and attendance.  I'd take an Infinity Coaster in a heartbeat.  Slap one with 5-6 inversions with a good lighting package in Vortex's spot (that's actually my new preference for The Vortex spot over a RMC now). 

I for one want some variety, even at the cost of a little capacity.  Capacity isn't everything.  There are several coasters I'd like to see KI get that aren't on B&M levels of capacity. 

Heck, CP is getting a spinning wild mouse.  

[FUN&ONLY!]

39 minutes ago, SonofBaconator said:

I argue our park is too large for Gerstlauer. Unless they come up with a train to accommodate 28-32 passengers, which they’ve never done on an Infinity Coaster, I don’t see it happening. 
 

Love them or hate them, B&M has provided us with 3 reliable coasters and with their track being manufactured in the neighboring county, I don’t see them not returning. 

If we were to get a B&M, it would be cool to see a new sit down launch coaster with the new over-the-shoulder lapbar restraints B&M recently patented. However, it would also be nice to see Kings Island branch out. A MACK Rides X-Treme Spinning Coaster would be absolutely mesmerizing to watch along The Vortex midway on top of the awesome ride experience. It would be a modern launch coaster with inversions, but it would still be different enough from Flight of Fear. It would also be a crowd pleaser for enthusiasts and the general public alike.

[brenthodge]

I feel like this thread has devolved into another “which coaster to stick in Vortex spot” thread, but… whatever. I’d love to hear ideas for RIVERTOWN and what you could see the park adding-changing given their basically stated objective of creating more “all ages and all senses” experiences going forward. I ve had two happenstance conversations with both Don Helbig and Mike Koontz out and about in the park this year - both times really stressing how much I appreciated the overall tone of the 50th and the choice to celebrate by celebrating with a  FULL experience over just impressive new ride stats. Both times they seemed super appreciative that the direction the park was going in was being noted and appreciated. I told Mike that I really liked that the focus was shifting away from just breaking records and he basically agreed that that is "not a sustainable model" but that if an addition makes sense in the overall positioning strategy of the park AND it breaks records or introduces new technology that is fine, but, the days of just going taller, faster or longer for the sake of just that are shifting.

[silver2005]

^But people here are trying to shoehorn in Vortex's plot as Rivertown.  That's Coney Mall to me.  That spot is likely getting a coaster all things considered.

Also, there's no lake going there.  That's all a big hill going down towards and beyond Beast.  The amount of land work needed for a lake would be colossal.  

As for actual Rivertown, its a bit landlocked as is unless they finally decide to remove the big steel box, which, would open some land around Diamondback to use.  The area around DB's splash could be utilized as well for some flats/theming.  

[SonofBaconator]

47 minutes ago, brenthodge said:

I’d love to hear ideas for RIVERTOWN and what you could see the park adding-changing given their basically stated objective of creating more “all ages and all senses” experiences going forward.

Personally, I’d put a Congo Falls like ride in Rivertown-or if Congo Falls could be relocated that would be great too. Put it behind the Crypt building so the park can decide whether they want to keep the building or demolish it. If the Crype building isn’t going to be touched just yet, at least paint it Go-Away-Green so it blends in more with the trees. 
 

 

If the park does decide to put something in the building, I’d want an indoor drop ride to resemble a mine shaft. If they’re gonna tear it out, I’d still want the water ride to go where I have it next to The Beast and DB to allow for a new flat ride.

[FUN&ONLY!]

1 hour ago, brenthodge said:

I feel like this thread has devolved into another “which coaster to stick in Vortex spot” thread, but… whatever. I’d love to hear ideas for RIVERTOWN and what you could see the park adding-changing given their basically stated objective of creating more “all ages and all senses” experiences going forward. I ve had two happenstance conversations with both Don Helbig and Mike Koontz out and about in the park this year - both times really stressing how much I appreciated the overall tone of the 50th and the choice to celebrate by celebrating with a  FULL experience over just impressive new ride stats. Both times they seemed super appreciative that the direction the park was going in was being noted and appreciated. I told Mike that I really liked that the focus was shifting away from just breaking records and he basically agreed that that is "not a sustainable model" but that if an addition makes sense in the overall positioning strategy of the park AND it breaks records or introduces new technology that is fine, but, the days of just going taller, faster or longer for the sake of just that are shifting.

I agree in that I want Rivertown to see a complete revamp. However, I don’t know if The Vortex plot of land will be a part of a revitalized Rivertown. I think that will remain part of Coney Mall.

I agree with what you say about the 50th Anniversary Celebration, but stuff like that doesn’t last. I do want to see more park improvements going forward but more meaningful park improvements like area renovations. As good as the 50th Anniversary Celebration was, the only park improvements for 2022 were new paint jobs, landscaping, and the new Tower Gardens. These improvements are great, but I hope that future investments go way beyond superficial improvements like these, and areas are completely overhauled and reimagined.

As for the current state of Kings Island speculation and rumors, I feel like we are currently in a bit of a lull. This is the longest we have gone since Banshee without a new coaster being announced which admittedly isn’t that bad compared to other parks. Right now, we really don’t know what to expect from the park. There are signs that a new flat ride may replace SlingShot or that Phantom Theater will return but nothing major like the overhaul of an existing area which Kings Island desperately needs.

[brenthodge]

2 hours ago, silver2005 said:

^But people here are trying to shoehorn in Vortex's plot as Rivertown.  That's Coney Mall to me.  That spot is likely getting a coaster all things considered.

Also, there's no lake going there.  That's all a big hill going down towards and beyond Beast.  The amount of land work needed for a lake would be colossal.  

As for actual Rivertown, its a bit landlocked as is unless they finally decide to remove the big steel box, which, would open some land around Diamondback to use.  The area around DB's splash could be utilized as well for some flats/theming.  

That’s what I don’t get-why people keep trying to theme something there to Rivertown. The “factory food hall” idea from the story would still work even if it looked out onto a new coaster eventually that had its entrance in Coney. 

[brenthodge]

1 hour ago, FUN&ONLY! said:

I agree in that I want Rivertown to see a complete revamp. However, I don’t know if The Vortex plot of land will be a part of a revitalized Rivertown. I think that will remain part of Coney Mall.

I agree with what you say about the 50th Anniversary Celebration, but stuff like that doesn’t last. I do want to see more park improvements going forward but more meaningful park improvements like area renovations. As good as the 50th Anniversary Celebration was, the only park improvements for 2022 were new paint jobs, landscaping, and the new Tower Gardens. These improvements are great, but I hope that future investments go way beyond superficial improvements like these, and areas are completely overhauled and reimagined.

As for the current state of Kings Island speculation and rumors, I feel like we are currently in a bit of a lull. This is the longest we have gone since Banshee without a new coaster being announced which admittedly isn’t that bad compared to other parks. Right now, we really don’t know what to expect from the park. There are signs that a new flat ride may replace SlingShot or that Phantom Theater will return but nothing major like the overhaul of an existing area which Kings Island desperately needs.

My comments about the 50th weren’t meant to imply I didn’t think permanent capitol improvements weren’t needed, but more that the park seems to be looking  at projects wholisticly more nhan in the past when it was more single ride focused. I think that’s why we are seeing things take a bit longer in that they are looking at a more multi-faceted plan than just “what record breaking thing can we stick where Vortex was that will jazz up just the coaster enthusiast crowd. Sorry if that didn’t really come through, because yes, the park needs more than just shows and paint to drive long-term attendance gains while they increase pr cap spending (the one-two punch every park is lusting after). 

[SonofBaconator]

Personally, I think there are two kind of improvements:

1.) Improvements that come with new attractions:

When Banshee was built, you saw some surrounding upgrades with Flight Deck being rebranded and repainted The Bat, Delirium being repainted, a nice seating area taking the spot of the water tower, and a nice patio area outside the Feathaus. When Orion was built you saw a whole rework of the surrounding area with extra theming being added around Flight of Fear, a new dining area, space theming, and painted buildings. These type of improvements are always nice because you know an area will be spruced up when a new attraction comes in.

2.) Off year improvements (off year meaning no new thrill ride):

These are personally my favorite because they can happen at unexpected times if you’re a park goer. 2019 was my favorite year because it saw the return of the Antique Cars, the colored Beast trains, an upgraded International Street, a renovated glockenspiel, etc. 2022 was almost a continuation of 2019 with different upgrades to celebrate the park’s 50th like a freshly painted Drop Tower, new train theming, repainted Racer, repainted Eiffel Tower, repainted Flying Ace and so on. 
 

I personally hope that every off year we don’t get an attraction, the park should make improvements like what I mentioned. Diamondback should be hopefully getting repainted and I would love to see the Crypt building get painted to blend in more like what they did with the Killmart building. Stuff like that might not seem like a lot for some, but it really does go a long way and it shows guests that the park takes pride in what they do; it clearly shows with all the improvements made over the past few years.

 

[Cedar Fair Fanboy]

On 8/29/2022 at 12:29 PM, brenthodge said:

LOL The "SOURCE OF ALL EVIL" is the giant tan metal building. It HAS been the bane of the park for quite a while now!

Make that look like a Employees' den for River town Mining Company, and true to mining, go underground.

[rotag]

6 hours ago, Cedar Fair Fanboy said:

Make that look like a Employees' den for River town Mining Company, and true to mining, go underground.

7 dawrves i smell...where be the white as snow?

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

I came up with an idea to expand and refresh The Beast plaza as well as add a new indoor restaurant/show venue. The new restaurant/show venue I'm calling Beast Canyon Saloon would feature 2 levels, a bar, as well as a stage which would be a permanent home for country shows. It would also house a dance floor and during the day in between show times would offer free line dancing lessons (like those places in Nashville) which would be a cool experience for guests. I also added a water feature back to The Beast's queue area.

Also while not in the concept, I envision The Crypt/current Conjuring building would be used for another indoor attraction

 

[Cedar Fair Fanboy]

5 hours ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

I came up with an idea to expand and refresh The Beast plaza as well as add a new indoor restaurant/show venue. The new restaurant/show venue I'm calling Beast Canyon Saloon would feature 2 levels, a bar, as well as a stage which would be a permanent home for country shows. It would also house a dance floor and during the day in between show times would offer free line dancing lessons (like those places in Nashville) which would be a cool experience for guests. I also added a water feature back to The Beast's queue area.

Also while not in the concept, I envision The Crypt/current Conjuring building would be used for another indoor attraction

 

Again, for a Madhouse

[PKIDelirium]

Oh hey, another bar!

[KI Guy]

19 hours ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

I came up with an idea to expand and refresh The Beast plaza as well as add a new indoor restaurant/show venue. The new restaurant/show venue I'm calling Beast Canyon Saloon would feature 2 levels, a bar, as well as a stage which would be a permanent home for country shows. It would also house a dance floor and during the day in between show times would offer free line dancing lessons (like those places in Nashville) which would be a cool experience for guests. I also added a water feature back to The Beast's queue area.

Also while not in the concept, I envision The Crypt/current Conjuring building would be used for another indoor attraction

 

I think the big, ugly, tan box should be removed. It was a mistake from the get go.

[DonHelbig]

8 minutes ago, KI Guy said:

I think the big, ugly, tan box should be removed. It was a mistake from the get go.

They can remove it but they’d have to build another structure elsewhere for a Haunt maze, like alongside The Racer on the park side. 

[Hawaiian Coasters 325]

23 minutes ago, KI Guy said:

I think the big, ugly, tan box should be removed. It was a mistake from the get go.

I think they should do some TLC/painting of the outside to make it not as ugly. I think the building provides an opportunity for another indoor ride. Whether the park/six flags takes the opportunity in the future remains to be seen. I would hope they really look into it if Phantom Theater is a smashing hit. 

15 minutes ago, DonHelbig said:

They can remove it but they’d have to build another structure elsewhere for a Haunt maze, like alongside The Racer on the park side. 

I think the park should look into building more Haunt buildings in backstage areas and converting the 2 former ride buildings (Crypt and Action Theater) back into indoor rides. 

[cdubbs727]

1 hour ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

 

I think the park should look into building more Haunt buildings in backstage areas and converting the 2 former ride buildings (Crypt and Action Theater) back into indoor rides. 

I agree. I'm not a Haunt person, so I guess YMMV, but I hate the amount of room they take up for mazes that are used for about a month. But while I prefer they use backstage areas, I would rather see them use one of the ugly boxes than have haunts standing around with signage but not operating in the summer -- I tend to think having stuff like Slaughterhouse or whatever is by The Bat just hanging around all summer looks trashy. 

[rlentless]

The Crypt building is an asset and very expensive to rebuild into something else.  If there are no plans to use it as a ride, why not turn it into a full service restaurant?  Already has some great theming that may possibly be used.  It was used as a dining option during Haunt before.  You can still add a Beast Plaza area outside as shown above illustration.

[Losantiville Mining Co.]

7 hours ago, DonHelbig said:

They can remove it but they’d have to build another structure elsewhere for a Haunt maze, like alongside The Racer on the park side. 

There's a nice, large plot of land slightly to the south of the big box. It's large enough to for a Slaughterhouse-sized maze barn while still having plenty of space leftover. The biggest constraints look to be the slope of the hill and the service road.

7 hours ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

I think they should do some TLC/painting of the outside to make it not as ugly. I think the building provides an opportunity for another indoor ride. Whether the park/six flags takes the opportunity in the future remains to be seen. I would hope they really look into it if Phantom Theater is a smashing hit. 

Some paint would go a long way for it IMO. I'm shocked they haven't tried to put a big ad up on the side of it like they did with the KI Theater. If Kings Island is looking for a space for a new dark ride I think a better location would be in the Action Theater because of the additional square footage in that building. Whatever goes in the big box should utilize as much of it as possible, meaning either a two-story omnimover dark ride or a one-story dark ride of similar size to Boo Blasters at Carowinds or Kings Dominion. It would be about half the size of Phantom Theater. A Vekoma Madhouse would also fit with room to spare. I think a Danse Macabre ride would fit really well in there, though I don't know what they would theme it to.

For more sizing context: The Haunted Mansion and NightFlight Expedition both look to be about 40,000 square feet while the main portion of the big box looks to be a little above 10,000 sf. It was built for a big flat ride, so the smaller size limits what kinds of dark rides could go in there. 

4 hours ago, rlentless said:

The Crypt building is an asset and very expensive to rebuild into something else.  If there are no plans to use it as a ride, why not turn it into a full service restaurant?  Already has some great theming that may possibly be used.  It was used as a dining option during Haunt before.  You can still add a Beast Plaza area outside as shown above illustration.

I would agree more on turning the building into a restaurant (even temporarily) if the interior was completely gutted first. A new floor would need to be built to be level with the queue, which would also require sprinkler systems and such for the lower level (where the Haunt attractions currently are). It's larger than the Red Garter Saloon at Cedar Point, so they could also host a small show in there. For a KI size reference, the main box is near the size of the Brewhouse. 

 

The largest question with any of these ideas will be what to do with the excess height of the building. It would be very expensive to cut off the top of the building and lower the roof line, so that's off the table.

All of these are nice options or they could tear the building down and make it a new part of Rivertown with new paths and buildings. Anything to not make it feel crammed into the park's current layout like some other additions have been.

[beastfan11]

An indoor/outdoor coaster/water/dark ride could work well with the same ride system as the new NightFlight Expedition at Dollywood. There’s even some room behind the building and beside the train which could create some great kinetic energy and fun water features. It could be midly themed to the previous Keelboat attraction with a new story created specifically for Rivertown. That is, if the building needs to stay. Wouldn’t hate seeing it get the axe. 

[KI Guy]

On 3/3/2026 at 10:52 AM, DonHelbig said:

They can remove it but they’d have to build another structure elsewhere for a Haunt maze, like alongside The Racer on the park side. 

I am out of the loop on Haunt. Is the old Massacre Manor space inside of the Phantom Theatre building still being used?

Could they utilize that instead? Also maybe they could bring back an outdoor Haunt somewhere?

[Losantiville Mining Co.]

Massacre Manor was in the original Dodgem building (later repurposed for the laser maze and Attitudes gift shop) and was demolished to make way for Coney Bar-B-Que. CarnEvil was the maze in the Enchanted Theater next to Phantom Theater/Scooby-Doo/Boo Blasters and its space is now used for the Peanuts Playhouse theater. They've been hosting more Tricks & Treats and Winterfest shows in there lately, but for the main season it's often an indoor Meet & Greet location alongside any shows they host in it.

[beastfan11]

36 minutes ago, Losantiville Mining Co. said:

Massacre Manor was in the original Dodgem building (later repurposed for the laser maze and Attitudes gift shop) and was demolished to make way for Coney Bar-B-Que. CarnEvil was the maze in the Enchanted Theater next to Phantom Theater/Scooby-Doo/Boo Blasters and its space is now used for the Peanuts Playhouse theater. They've been hosting more Tricks & Treats and Winterfest shows in there lately, but for the main season it's often an indoor Meet & Greet location alongside any shows they host in it.

Some old people (like me) remember Massacre Manor as a Sleepy Hollow maze under a tent next to the Showplace. Good times.